VLM 3.5 preliminary video

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Originally Posted by James

Check out that new video and see if you say the same thing.

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i saw it even before i said anything. it's surprisingly complex, but the lack of audio input really hurts the project.

have you used milkdrop before? i think it comes bundled with new versions of winamp. it has this nice feature where some distinct effects are altered only when the volume reaches a user-defined threshold. makes for some awesome transitions, to say the least.

i can't see how you could get similar functionality without some mind-numbing scripting.

I still think you're looking at it wrong. It's like wanting to shoot things in Disaster Report or something, it's not a utility designed to do that kind of thing. Instead of taking the effort to put in beat detection and sort out what kind of effects go best to what kind of music, Minter is working on a light composition utility. I've got Milkdrop on my PC if I just want a light synthesizer, but VLM3.5 is going to be for when I want to do more than just sit back and watch.

Admitted, I wish there was a way to jack my tunes through the Cube...

I assume everyone who wants to see video 2 has seen it? I can cue it up in here if somebody has missed it, but I'd rather not link a 120MB download without knowing if it's going to be used or not.

James

yeah i understand where you're coming from, and it's a good point, but i can't imagine that any more than 5% of unity users would actually take the time to set vlm3.5 up without audio-in. for one thing, it's going to be a hell of a lot more difficult to synch up the start of a song to the lightshow.

i suppose i'm just saying it would be neat if minter would port it to pc. wishful thinking, i know.)

anyway, i'd definately be interested in seeing the 2nd video.

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Originally Posted by epmode

yeah i understand where you're coming from, and it's a good point, but i can't imagine that any more than 5% of unity users would actually take the time to set vlm3.5 up without audio-in. for one thing, it's going to be a hell of a lot more difficult to synch up the start of a song to the lightshow.

i suppose i'm just saying it would be neat if minter would port it to pc. wishful thinking, i know.)

anyway, i'd definately be interested in seeing the 2nd video.

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I was under the impression that VLM 3.5 was supposed to be used in realtime with the music, not to set up some pre-defined values to simulate the interaction passively later. You'd be "playing" the VLM to the music, I guess. Similar to how you could interact with VLM2 with an analog controller, but more in-depth.

From what I understand, K3V, that's exactly it. I could be wrong but it seems like unless you're performing there's not going to be a lot happening on screen, although I admit to having no proof to back it up. Maybe you can key in bpm and some patterns and let it ride, or maybe it's requiring real-time interaction to really be interesting.

The problem with something new is knowing what to expect. :)

James

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Originally Posted by James

I assume everyone who wants to see video 2 has seen it? I can cue it up in here if somebody has missed it, but I'd rather not link a 120MB download without knowing if it's going to be used or not.

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What's in video 2?

If there's a concern about the space on the system, then perhaps you could set an "expiration date" for the first video (perhaps in another day or two), at which time that video will be taken down and the second one posted.

Or I could just do it right now, that always works-

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/staff/j...ffysheepie.mov

Video #2 blows the first one out of the water. No messing around with menus or anything, just a straight, 11 minute VLM3.5 session. If you haven't seen it, get it.

James

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Originally Posted by James

Video #2 blows the first one out of the water. No messing around with menus or anything, just a straight, 11 minute VLM3.5 session. If you haven't seen it, get it.

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Thanks again, James. That was very nice.

As wildly cool as VLM 3.5 seems, though, I still have to admit to being a bit disappointed that there won't be any way to pipe music into the GameCube for use with VLM effects. One of the coolest things about the earlier VLM products for the Jaguar and NUON were how they effectively worked with the music to produce the various multicolored patterns on the screen--almost an "electronic synaesthesia."

It was fascinating in understanding that there's all kinds of mathematical analysis going on behind the scenes to generate the visual effects, and that it was the musical data that was used as the basis. VLM effects might react quite differently to different pieces of music--one piece of music might cause only a few subtle sparks, while another musical piece (maybe another song, or even another segment of the same song just a few seconds later) might cause the same VLM setting to create a furious whirlwind of colored streams. Part of the fun of experimenting with VLM would be to see which how it reacted to different CDs, in the same way that certain games like Monster Rancher would generate characters based on the data found on the CD.

If you eliminate that quasi-randomness caused by trying a new song with your old favorite VLM setting, then it removes a fair amount of the wonder and the fun. I guess in a way, it's nice to be able to tweak a few settings and get a nice fireworks show that's consistently good with any music, but the flip side is that it becomes too predictable. Now, you could tweak the numbers again to get a different result, but that brings me back to my earlier comments, that the spontaneity of the music should be used to generate the effects in realtime.

I don't know what Jeff Minter's schedule is, but if there's still some time left, then I'd like to see him put some hooks into the GameCube code to possibly allow this to happen in the future (sort of like he did with the "external input" code in the Jaguar CD VLM, even though 99.99% of Jaguar owners will never be able to properly utilize it). It seems almost like a step backward to not implement a feature which was one of the defining elements of VLM in the first place.

Minter quotes from a thread over at the Llamasoft forums on VLM 3.5-

"Of course there will be provision made for people who merely want to use the instrument I'm creating for them as a simple "player-piano"..."

Later on-

"And of course I have thought of modes of use of VLM apart from full Crew flight. That's what the vCrew is all about."

Referring to the enhanced effects I hear you can get by four people simultaneously running VLM 3.5 at once, and apparently stating that you can get an extra 3 AI people.

From the same read, apparently manual beat-detection is entered by tapping the A button (I assume) in time to the beat. That's a relief, I can do that no problem. Entering some BPM rate as a numerical value like, for some reason, I was picturing. From actual experience with VLM2 (and Milkdrop, for that matter) I can say right now that it's going to provide a better, more accurate "pulse" than I've seen yet.

James