http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?...ct%5Fid=210590
http://gaming-age.com/news/2004/7/8-11
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If it's true, then I’m pleased to see that Sega has finally wised up and given themselves every advantage possible for gaining some ground on EA.
If the reviews are positive, then maybe some of the fence sitters will be compelled to give NFL 2K5 a shot before they go out and purchase Madden.
The version I saw at the Spike Gaming event-thingy last week was solid, so I imagine that as long as the extra are ready to go, it's genius to beat Madden out of the gate. There are going to be so many people who are itching for a new NFL game that they will totally be able to justify the $20.
Holy shit....
Did I just see Sega doing something smart? This can't be true...
Awesome stuff, and two days after my b-day to boot.
The Xbox version of the Halftime show had me sold, looked so real. Can't wait to pick it up for 20 bones.
Sega has made two very smart moves. Undercutting Madden in price and releasing the game early are very positive steps. Just think about this, SEGA ESPN 2005 will be released on July 20 for $20. On that same date Madden 2004 will still be selling for $49.99. It seems SEGA has finally learned that making a comparable or even better game is not going to cut it alone. SEGA has to beat EA in marketing to gain ground on them. SEGA deserves some props for actually giving EA a challenge. If it were left to Gameday and the others Madden would rule unchallenged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBMax
Yep, thats apocolyptic sign #8 I believe. Seriously, though thats one of the reasons they went with Take-two, for their marketing abilities.
I'm still buying only Madden.
Might as well hop on while the ship is sinking. Sega's just trying to cash out and scrape out whatever they can from this failed football series.
I've always prefered the NFL2kx series over Madden, but then again, I'm more of a casual fan. There are plenty of people that feel like OMFG here, so unfortunately, I think Sega could make a Football game that got you a beer and sucked your dick while you played, and people STILL would get Madden.Quote:
Originally Posted by omfgninjas
MOG BUY 2k5!! MOG BUY!
That just turned into a definite purchase!
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by omfgninjas
You get what you pay for, and I'd gladly pay the extra 30 bucks for the superior football game.
Alot of people buy Madden because they are casual football playing fans, have played Madden since they were kids with the Genesis, and they like to stick with what they know. I worked at a gaming dept last year when Madden hit, and you'd be surprised how many people didn't even know the other football titles were there. When they were told about them, they just said "I'll stick with Madden, because this series is ALWAYS good"Quote:
Originally Posted by TobalRox
Plus I guarantee Madden will still get top billing in every store that sells games, thanks to EA's marketing dept.
I'll bite at the low price. But did they fix the kickoff special teams AI?
The game is being hurried out the door at a low price. It's screaming shovelware. Normally when a game comes out in this arrangement its some budget PC title like Cabela's Big Game Hunter 2005 or Trailer Park Tycoon and TNL just laughs at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
So, I really doubt it will be much better than last year's release.
You know the situation's bad when ESPN SportsCenter is running a 4-part series on videogame sports and theyre showing all Electronic Arts games (well, and Midway for SlugFest)... yes, this includes Madden.
I would blame Take Two on that part. They're publishing this years Sega Sports games.Quote:
Originally Posted by PBMax
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Unlike EA, Visual Concepts designed ESPN 2005 for the Xbox first and then scaled it down for other systems. Remember when you posted that thread a few weeks ago begging developers to do exactly that? You certainly have a retarded way of showing your appreciation - calling the game shovelware before it even hits store shelves based solely on its price point.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Visual Concepts' football series has never been shovelware, and you've obviously read nothing about the game if you think there are no real improvements for this year's edition. I'm not going to say it's better than Madden, because they're both great series. I'll be purchasing NCAA, Madden, and ESPN this year anyway.
Also, the bumped up release date and budget price point for ESPN 2K5 are obviously Take Two's doing, and they're really fucking smart moves, which is why we all know Sega had nothing to do with the decision. To dethrone Madden, people need to actually try a football game other than Madden. This is precisely where the aforementioned budget price comes into play, because you will have a sizeable segment of the market that is willing to purchase two professional football videogames in a year when it only costs an additional twenty dollars. Once they own both games, they can judge them on their own merits instead of simply buying Madden and ignoring all other football games. In addition, you'll have another segment of customers that will give the game far more than a passing look simply by virtue of the fact that it's a budget/low-risk purchase. The Madden series has become so synonymous with videogame football that it's exceedingly difficult to even expose gamers to alternatives. That's half the challenge now.
By the way, ESPN 2K5 has actually been finished for weeks. It's not being rushed out.
If you don't like the series fine, just please stop with the nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
BTW last year's release was a brilliant football game, by far the best of the 2K series.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
I quit buying Madden, when Sega started the 2K series. The last 2k series game I bought, was NFL2K3 for the PS2. The game was pretty cool, but I opted to buy Madden 2004 last year. Can't say I was all that impressed with how Madden played. I found that it had too many money plays and once you broke into the secondary, you were un-catchable.
Bring on ESPN 2K5, I'll be in line when it's released!
This is why Madden 2005 has improved defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
It took them 14 years to realise this? :bang:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roufuss
The breakaway plays have been a staple of Madden football, going all the way back to the Genesis versions.
Mamoscott: I had no idea the game was designed for Xbox, but good it seems like some people are listening to me.
From working at EB for so long, I can gather what will happen: people will pick up ESPN NFL 2005 for $20, play it for a few weeks, then trade it in for $5 and get Madden 2005. And all the pre-owned games will just rot on the shelf forever. It will be used as a warming up for Madden if anything. Even if the game is every bit as good as Madden, which it wont be, people will still play Madden because EA has turned it into something with tons of brand loyalty.
Sega has wasted so many millions of dollars on establishing the game as a competitor to Madden and has failed spectacularly in doing so. Resorting to low prices and hurried release dates is their, or Take 2's or whoever's, last stand. A really wise decision on their part will be just to sell Visual Concepts and move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Competition is good. It's good for people to have options even if most people swear by Madden.
The day Visual Concepts stops making games it will be a sad day, because EA will have a monopoly on video game sports.
Support Visual Concepts. Buy ESPN NFL 2005.
GameFreak that is so true.Quote:
Originally Posted by GameFreak
I wonder if all these people who bash Visual Concepts & SEGA ESPN 2005 realize that Visual Concepts designed some of the classic Genesis Maddens.
The Madden/EA Sports brain lock is something so powerful it can decide console wars. It is more powerful then the FORCE itself. If a system doesn't have Madden it is destined to fail. It is almost getting to the point were its Madden on Playstation or nothing else. I'm not saying the SEGA series is overall better than Madden. They both out perform the other in varying areas. But, the amount of people who simply dismiss the SEGA series every year is mind boggling.
It's like saying well each Final Fantasy is the best RPG, so I'm not going to bother playing any of the others. For goodness sakes the game is $20. To get a game of this quality for $20 at launch is a steal. At least play it before you claim it to pale in comparison to Madden. The significant game play changes for sports games can't be judged by screen shots.
People seem to forget the year EA didn't publish Madden because of the Gameday commercial. They saw the graphics for Gameday in their commercial, and EA was putting out such a rehash version of Madden they thought it would be best not to publish the game at all. You best believe it Madden rules unchecked all we will see is essentially roster updates.
Why? I and many others think the game is better than Madden - most every reviewer considers the two series equal -Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Gamerankings Averages:
ESPN NFL 2K4: 89.3 %
Madden 2004: 89.1 %
Sega makes mad cash from their sports games - they're advertising vehicles. Check out the in-stadium ads from Wilson, Adidas & others, not to mention Sega's own stuff - 2K4 had unlockable Virtua Fighter characters as players, posters & soundtracks from other Sega games like JGR. Their sports lineup allows them access to a huge market they'd never otherwise see through things like sponsoring NCAA bowl games. Their NBA series does very well for them, and is unquestionably better than Live. They'd be insane to just give up on their sports properties just because they're second in the most lucrative market in gaming.
Personally, I've always liked 2K better for its more realistic look over Madden's cartoony players, and its overall lack of John Madden buffoonery. So I'm thrilled Sega's basically going to just save me $30 on a game I would have bought anyway. The fact that they're overhauling the thing just makes it that much sweeter.
They've been doing that for years now. Sega got pissed about it last year too.Quote:
You know the situation's bad when ESPN SportsCenter is running a 4-part series on videogame sports and theyre showing all Electronic Arts games (well, and Midway for SlugFest)... yes, this includes Madden.
Heh, I won't jump all over you like Mamo did, but this year's 2K is going to make Madden like like a PS1 game. Check out the video Gamespot's got on this page.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Have you ever seen anything like those close up jerseys? I mean, the thing just looks spectacular:
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/...242894-000.jpg
And supposedly they have Suzy Kolber doing post game player interviews - I have no idea how they'll pull that off.
Heck, IGN even says "it's shaping up to be one of the best sports games of all time." Even if you write that off as IGN being IGN, all signs point to good things.
Originally Posted by diffusionx
The game is being hurried out the door at a low price. It's screaming shovelware. Normally when a game comes out in this arrangement its some budget PC title like Cabela's Big Game Hunter 2005 or Trailer Park Tycoon and TNL just laughs at it. I doubt it will be much better than last year's release.
So wrong. I've never seen you be this wrong, head on over to gametrailers.com son. Check out the V.I.P. system while you're at it. See if Madden ever tries something so cool.
Finally someone else has the right idea too. Madden has always been cartoony, while the Sega games have always pushed for more and more realism. This goes for a lot of the EA vs. Sega games, and another reason I've always liked the Sega ones more. Although there are exceptions, I remember playing NBA 2k2 that one of my roommate's one year of college had, and it looked MUCH more cartoony than my 2k1 on Dreamcast. Maybe it was just in my head since I hadn't played my Dreamcast in a while since I sold it, but to me, it looked more cartoony. The gameplay was still there, though, so I still enjoyed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
Read my previous post again. The price point is designed to get people to try an alternative football game, and even if people pick up ESPN and trade it back in after a few weeks, then Take Two's "early release/budget price" strategy is still doing exactly what it was designed to do. The point is that they're exposing gamers to a football title other than EA's game, and if most people use it as just a "warm up" for Madden, that's still an infinitely better scenario than almost everyone ignoring the ESPN series entirely and just waiting for Madden's release.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
lol, I don't know why you guys are even trying to present actual information to diff. It's so obvious that he has absolutely no idea about either ESPN or Madden. Seriously, I'm not even going to say anything in ESPN's defense --it's not warranted for anyone who knows anything about either of these games-- I'll just let the games themselves do the talking:
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen004.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen005.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen001.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen003.jpg
http://www.operationsports.com/image...2005xbox39.jpg
http://www.espnvideogames.com/_img/s...2k5_ff1_08.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen002.jpg
http://www.espnvideogames.com/_img/s...2k5_ff1_33.jpg
Yeah.
Right. So, diff, what was that about ESPN being shovelware? Nice one, man.
Maybe it's just me, but alot of that animation seems stiff and rigid. Not really a fan of some of those faces, either :lol:
Some of those pictures are decent, but that second to last one.... WOW that looks pretty bad.
lmfao.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roufuss
You just owned yourself so hard. Every single thing you weren't impressed with was from pics of Madden.
Just goes to show how much the people saying ESPN sucks have no idea about the game, or even moreso the game they're fucking defending. ESPN looks so much better than Madden this year it is laughable by comparison.
I win. :)
Third from the last pic...wow.
Andy didn't point out that only the screenshots watermarked Gamespot/Madden were from EA's effort, the others Sega's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roufuss
Though it kind of goes without saying.
Considering I didn't say which ones I thought were decent and which ones sucked, I didn't own myself at all, except for that one pic that I pointed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
So wow, you owned me on one picture, awesome. That's quite an accomplishment, I suppose, I could honestly care less. I wasn't impressed with the rigid animation or faces in ANY of the pictures, and yea, I actually own every sega football title from 2000 on forward.
So yea, I guess I don't know anything about ESPN after all :( Not to mention I never had a problem with the graphics, but more or less with the way it plays, and I thought Playmaker Control in 2004 destroyed anything ESPN brought to the table that year.
I honestly think both games look pretty good. but ESPN does indeed look better in screen shots. I'm buying ESPN this year because I'm getting tired of Madden and want to try something fresh.
BTW, the last 2 shots of Ahman Green I noticed that EA went with the black fumble arm bands and ESPN went with the ones Ahman changed to a little over halfway through last years season. NEAT!
So true. I can guarantee you that if ESPN NFL 2005 does well this year EA will follow VC's lead and design Madden 2006 using the XBox hardware and they will try to come up with a bunch of new stuff and of course, VC will try to top them. That's what competition does.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shiva
EA has respect for VC, they know the games are good.
http://www.maddenmania.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=46566
Interview from Gamespot.com with EA's CEO
The King and I: An interview with EA's Larry Probst
GameSpot takes the pulse of Electronic Arts; company's CEO takes us behind the scenes at E3.
LP - A prime example is a few years ago when we came to the show and saw Sega's football game. Our development guys looked at it and said, "Oh, my god, their game looks better than ours, plays better than ours, and they're going to launch in three months!" I mean, they went away from the show, doubled down, put more resources into the team, and caught up in terms of quality.
At the same time we said, "You know, even if we get people on quality, we have to outmarket these guys." And so, coming right out of the show we said, "OK, new game plan. We've got to double down on the resources, we've got to outmarket these guys, we've got to get really aggressive." And that plan won the day. We ended up with 80 percent market share, and Sega got 20 percent. And at the show, arguably somebody could have said that was going to be reversed, because Sega had a much better looking game. So E3 gives us an opportunity to look at the competition and we're--and coming out we're very systematic about what we need to do.
I think you brought up some good points, but at the same time I wonder if this move could do severe damage in the long term.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamoscott
What's going to be the public's perception of this drastic price drop? Will they see it as a desperation move, a last-ditch effort by Sega and Take-Two to rope in sales before possibly pulling the plug on the series? Will people look at the $19.99 ESPN NFL 2K5, and see that Madden NFL 2005 is debuting at $49.99, and immediately think "you get what you pay for"? Although there have been a few surprisnigly great gems released at budget pricing over the years, the truth is that most games released at under $20 are of noticeably inferior quality to the "top shelf" $40-$50 games.
Will all of the future ESPN games be released at the under $20 mark? This means games like ESPN NBA 2K5, ESPN NHL 2K5, and whatever else comes down the pike this year, as well as products further down the road like ESPN NFL 2K6.
If it's a "permanent" budget series, then how does this affect the development budget? Will Sega and Take-Two continue to allocate the same amount of resources to the series that they did in previous years (when they retailed for $50), or will they be given "bottom shelf" treatment like the numerous hunting/fishing/bowling/pool/poker games?
If the other games end up selling for $50 at launch, then how will consumers react? Will they wait for the games to drop to the $20 level before considering them for purchase (expecting that they'll drop in price quickly because that's the price ESPN NFL 2K5 retailed for)?
Also, as diffusionx pointed out, there's a certain amount of irony when ESPN does video game specials covering EA's video games. You'd think that they would want to promote the games that have their own ESPN brand on them.
I don't understand why people has to knock a $20 game with a pretty good track record (NFL 2K series). The first time I tried NFL 2k on the DC, it felt and played so much better than the stagnant Madden series. I don't care about all the extra modes or crap or whatever, but on the field, NFL 2K series plays a better game than the Madden (IMO). Madden looks pretty enough, both series have cool little touches but I just can't stand the way Madden plays, with all the money plays and what not, it is not a challenge at all.
I will pickup NFL 2K5 for $14.99 the day it comes out at Best Buy. Life is good (at least for this year :)
No, they didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shiva
Most sites dont list past PS1 or the PS2, but i found these.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/company/13310.html
http://www.consolegameworld.com/company.php/id/55/
VC did Weaponlord for SNES/Genesis? That's amusing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral
I think those links only show them doing the SNES ports (was '95 a straight up port? I don't remember). Never thought the 16 bit Maddens were all that hot, though. I thought Quarterback Club had them beat.
:blank:Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
The QB challenge mode was fun & all but I think you're in the minority with that comment. IMHO the only 16-bit football game that was more fun than madden was Super Tecmo Bowl.
So all games in Canada are automatically better? This is the first year ESPN has been cheaper, going by that logic you'd agree the previous games in the 2k lineup are just as good as Madden and we know you don't. So what the hell was that supposed to mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roufuss
But if you were to honestly try and argue the pics against each other we'd all know you were either lying or Jeremy. Would you seriously try and say the shot directly above the one you singled out looks terrible?Quote:
Considering I didn't say which ones I thought were decent and which ones sucked, I didn't own myself at all, except for that one pic that I pointed out.
Nitpick: Let's stick with "poses" or some other appropiate term, seeing as how still pictures don't have animation.Quote:
I wasn't impressed with the rigid animation or faces in ANY of the pictures, and yea, I actually own every sega football title from 2000 on forward.
I'd also like to give a great big "Whoopdie-shit" in regards to the faces considering how often they're seen during gameplay. This isn't basketball, all you're going to see during every single play is a shiny helmet (unless you're playing first-person football, of course, which I don't believe many people do).
Well I know for sure that 96' was a better version and considering it started on the SNES in 92' i'd say 94' and 95' were at least a little superior ports. Either way they only worked on the engine EA had already made, still is kinda intresting though. And there was that first PS Madden debalce that VC was designing that got too ambitious.Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
I actually found the Bill Walsh college games to play much better than those old Maddens. Madden was a pure floaty running game back then with like 3 working pass plays, meh.
Mech, even I'm not blind to the greatness that lies in NFL 2K5's visuals.
Sounds like the Cimmamon Toast Crunch marketing team trying to sell football games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy
Name one other game that has to support 24 individually modelled faces, as well as models for referees, mascots, cheerleaders, etc. It's remarkable they have as much individual detail as they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roufuss
The first QB club was an amazing game, and made Madden look visually a generation behind. I'm pretty sure EGM even had it rated higher at the time. The series fell off after the first two games, though. I was a huge Tecmo Super Bowl fan, although I liked the NES one better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeno G
Looks like the July 20 release date is official: http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/07...s_6102369.html
Quote:
The 2005 football season is starting early this year--on consoles, anyway. Following unconfirmed reports last week, ESPN Videogames announced today that ESPN NFL 2K5 has gone gold and will indeed ship July 20. The game is rated "E" for Everyone and is being released for the Xbox and PlayStation 2.
ESPN NFL 2K5's new ship date gives the Visual Concepts-developed game a one-month head start on its rival, Electronic Arts' Madden NFL 2005. Besides moving up its release date, copublishers Sega and Take-Two interactive have also drastically discounted the game, which will sell for the bargain price of $19.99 (versus Madden's $49.99 price point).
Sega and Take-Two's aggressive release and pricing strategies have raised some concerns that NFL 2K5 is being rushed to market. It has also drawn public scorn from Electronic Arts' Jeff Brown, who told the San Jose Mercury News, "Sounds like they're throwing in the towel. They're signaling to consumers, retailers and the NFL that they are no longer selling a premium product." Predictably, Take-Two president Paul Eibeler and Visual Concepts' marketing boss Steve Raab disagreed, as you can read in GameSpot's interview with the two.
I think EA may actually be a bit concearned.
Oh and I also say FUCK the faces.
And for once somebody better get the fucking stadium noise/atmosphere right in an NFL game. I don't think anyone has yet. NCAA last year sounded pretty good though.
Would it kill EA or Sega to NOT spend money on new band music and just play exactly whats heard at the games? WOULD IT?
though Who Let the Dogs Out might get annoying... :D
Well at least you can actually edit the stadium music on ESPN this year, anything from your custom soundtracks can be set to different moments of the game.
Awesome! Time for some Mozart and Beethoven! :sonic:Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral
I think Giants Stadium is going to be rockin' to the sweet sounds of William Shatner this year.
Yeah ok, I remember liking the first QB Club game a bit but none of my friends had it so all we would play was madden other than playing around with the QB Challenge mode. And yeah the NES TSB was better but everyone played the new one for the roster updates. Too bad the series went off the deep end with TSB2 & 3 and lets not even acknowledge the PSX version. :yuck:Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
There was a psx version? Please tell me it wasn't developed by Appaloosa or something.
I should pick this up wed of next week that's when ebgames will get it. Hopefully we can hook up and play. If no one starts a espn2k5 online thread I'll do it so some of us can line up some games like we do in the pandora thread. Hope to play against you soon, have no idea what team I'll use this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMog007
I have no idea who it was developed by. But, if I remember right, they tried to compete with Madden that year and made it a serious FB game with a simple control scheme. It's been a very long time since I've played it and I've tried my hardest to forget about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
Wow, I checked GameFAQs reviews and the only two knuckleheads who did write reviews freaking loved the game. :wtf:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAD73
Yeah we'll see. I'll get my ass whupped since I'm use to Madden. Maybe I'll make StormShadow play online with me vs you.
I'm definitely getting this. The ESPN/NFL2k series has always been excellent. The $20 price may backfire because people may associate the low price with low quality. Everything I have seen, read, etc point to this being the football title to beat. I agree that this is sort of a last ditch effort to make the franchise more profitable--otherwise Sega will stop making sports games altogether and then we'll be relegated to Madden. Visual Concepts ' games have always been polished and innovative games--you can' fault them for being unable to beat EA but you can't fault their solid titles.
Has anyone seen the create a crib mode? They have videos of it at gametrailers.com. You earn crib points to decorate your pad. There's a jukebox you can listen to music on (I'm sure the XBOX rev will support the custom soundtrack) and a TV where you can watch interviews and other clips. You can play minigames on there like darts (ala Shenmue) and I think air hockey as well. There's also a trophy display area and you can collect Bobbleheads of your favorite players.
Yeah the is air hockey back again. If you didn't play it last year, its awesome and pure crack if you have someone to play with. I hope its playable online this year, like last years mini games in ESPN NHL.
Really interesting. I just got NCAA 2005 today and am having a ton of fun with that game, but will probably pick up ESPN 2k5 so I don't miss out on any big online things. :)
Is Sega going to put any on the fly tournaments in the game like EA has done with NCAA?
Oh, and that halftime report was incredible. :eek:
Xbox Live 3.0 supports user created tournaments, not sure if this game support Xbox Live 3.0 though.
I remember reading an interview a little bit back where Sega said they were excited because they were one of the first companies to use "Xbox Live Tools" or something along those lines... something that lets them have more control over what they can have on Live. They said it meant more tournaments and stuff. The way I read into it was that it was XSN for non Microsoft games.Quote:
Originally Posted by dave is ok
Got my first free XBN and I read the Madden/ESPN comparison reviews and they liked both but they gave ESPN the upperhand and reccomended it over Madden.
They also mentioned a new live feature for ESPN where the game records your play tendencies and other people can d/l them and play AI that plays like you would. I thought that was kinda neat.
And what the shit GamePro gave the PS2 version of ESPN 5,5,4.5 and the Xbox version 4.5,5,4. Wasn't the game built on Xbox hardware to begin with?
Game Informer said the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothCriminal
Their reviews rate it based on other games on the system. So it may look amazing for a PS2 game, the XBox version doesn't look as good as other Xbox games. Still probably looks better than the PS2 version.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothCriminal
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/530/530939p1.html
IGN gives the game great reviews.
this game is going to be fantastic. innovation means a lot and ESPN seems like it's got innovation in spades. i don't see madden doing anything but traveling around on a bus and eating - and while it might make for a good sim, i think people would get tired of it after a while.
it's that combination of innovative gameplay and an insane price break swayed me over from the dark (madden) side. $19. i'm totally camping out for this game. The VIP mode is going to be insane and i plan on using it to its fullest potential to dominate my roommates on the field. also, $19.
This thread is absolutely hilarious. I don't play Madden. Last year I bought ESPN Football. Even I know Madden is the better game.
Riiiiight...Quote:
ESPN seems like it's got innovation in spades
Then why does ESPN routinely get equal or better reviews from just about everyone? Why are the websites all saying it's flat out better this year? As someone who's played a fair amount of both, I'd like to know - please tell me in what way Madden is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sl1p
My boss at EB is a hardcore football fan and has been for years - probably nearly 20 years, in fact. And he's been playing videogame football for nearly that long. If there's anyone who I would trust on the subject of videogame football, without question, its his.
And StriderKyo, he says that Madden plays basically perfect. The gameplay is just about as close to perfect as you can possibly get, and every year pushes it a bit closer to absolute realism. He also says that ESPN plays very well, but its a different feel, not as close to realism but still very solid from a football standpoint. Just not as close to Madden. Also, ESPN has some weirdness with regards to play-calling and other AI tendencies that dont match the actual teams the way Madden does.
Also, he says the one area where Madden does falter a bit is presentation, and ESPN goes crazy on presentation.
So, ultimately, Im not quite sure if it takes a big football fan to appreciate what Madden does better. That might very well be the case, in the same way that it takes a refined ear to more fully appreciate types of classical music.
I've always felt Madden had a bouncier more arcadey feel - just watch the way the players leap across the field with every stride. There's also little difference in size between players - a 180 lb corner looks pretty much the same as a 240 linebacker. I also felt Playmaker started taking the game away from realism - you never, ever see QBs redirecting routes unless they're scrambling, and even then I can only think of a couple of guys who do it (DMac, Brees who doesn't even start anymore). Basically, I think they wanted to turn the whole game into a Michael Vick simulator.
Madden did have better momentum physics and less absurdly broken tackles, but those are the only two gameplay elements I can think of that would qualify as being more realistic. I can see how that would be a make or break for some people because it definitely affected the running game if you couldn't coach around it defensively. Both issues have supposedly been addressed quite handsomely in this year's ESPN.
But as far as general smoothness the two don't even compare. ESPN had hundreds of seamless animations that made the game flow like no other I've seen anywhere. Running backs carrying defenders, d linemen swimming the gap, teammates helping each other up off the ground, O linemen double teaming rushers, tacklers rolling over the ballcarrrier as they hit the ground, defenses gang-tackling - each of these things happens in dozens of different ways. It all just looks so natural. Madden, for all its good qualities, just isn't in the same realm in that regard.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not somehow trying to pretend Madden isn't a good game, and obviously I don't know jack until both of this year's versions are actually out. But going by history I just can't see it as being better. Certainly not $30 better.
You asked:
Again, I have no idea. I havent played a football game since NFL2K and I ended up returning it for Blue Stinger or something.Quote:
As someone who's played a fair amount of both, I'd like to know - please tell me in what way Madden is better.
Im just relying to you what I heard. And he's not biased or anything, seeing as he's played the NFL 2K series since day one and bought both games last year so he could play ESPN online.
In any case, yes, yes, ESPN may look so natural or Madden's characters may look the same, but I was talking about gameplay. In any case, I dont care about this and Im not getting either so it doesnt really matter.
I was also going make an arguement for ESPN Football over Madden, but StriderKyo pretty much hit up on every point I can think of.
I've bought Madden every year since '94 with the exception of 2003. I've bought NFL 2k every year since it's induction. I prefer 2K for single player. I just like it overall in terms of presentation and enjoyment more than Madden. Madden for me is a nice break from 2K and I prefer it for multiplayer, because it's the game all my friends play, therefor make for better competition. However, I will say that I did play a good ammount of Madden single player last year, because I really liked their franchise mode.
wow lot's of energy about the two titles. i lean to espn but play both. like the gameplay in espn and franchise in madden. this year i'll be buying espn next week. for $20 freaking bucks what else can you do. even as a madden fanboy why not give it a whirl. at least that's what i'm thinking. then i'll rent madden or maybe just buy it. see how much i'm liking espn
Well, I asked Slip anyway, heh.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Wasn't saying he was biased or didn't know what he was talking about or anything, just stating my case.Quote:
Im just relying to you what I heard. And he's not biased or anything, seeing as he's played the NFL 2K series since day one and bought both games last year so he could play ESPN online.
I'll say that for EA - their franchise modes have it all over VC's. I'm currently in the playoffs of my second season of ESPN NBA 2K4, and while it's not bad, it's pretty bare bones. A couple of interesting things happen - players refusing to deal with you if you lowball them, the predraft workouts etc. But there are other elements that are clearly pretty wonky - Indiana wanted a king's ransom for Ron Artest, but I was somehow able to trade Vince Carter and Morris Peterson for Tim Duncan (not bloody likely). :bang:Quote:
Originally Posted by Videodrone
StriderKyo, I heard in that game you can trade three marginal Heat for Shaquille O' Neal.
So unrealistic. *shakes head*
Dude, it's got The Crib!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sl1p
I checked Gamerankings, and since 2002 (when 2k went multiplatform), the only game in the series that got a higher percentage than Madden was NFL 2k3 on Xbox. Sure, they're all pretty close, but that doesn't mean you're not wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
What Game Infomer and XBN? Madden isn't even out for another month, has anyone actually reviewed it yet?Quote:
Why are the websites all saying it's flat out better this year?
Yeah, Madden, with it's realistic momentum is way more arcadey than ESPN, where you can make a 90 degree turn with practically no loss of speed. That makes an enormous difference, and not just in the running game.Quote:
I've always felt Madden had a bouncier more arcadey feel - just watch the way the players leap across the field with every stride.
They're both damn fine football games, and which is better comes down to personal preference. It still annoys the shit out of me to see all the people claiming that Madden sucks merely because they're raving Sega fanboys.
EGM had a side-by-side comparison in the newest issue, and it was a close race, with Madden barely winning out. Another mag gave the nod to ESPN.
Depends on which version you check. It scored higher on Xbox, probably due to lack of online for Madden. Either way, you're looking at like a 2% swing, which I'd say is negligible regardless of who it's in favour of, and doesn't justify saying one has been significantly better than the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint of Killers
Talking about previous versions. Only Gamepro and IGN have officially reviewed 2K5, with an aggregate of 97%. But if you want the opinion of somebody who counts, Operation Sports is practically foaming at the mouth over it, and are posting daily updates on every single feature.Quote:
What Game Infomer and XBN? Madden isn't even out for another month, has anyone actually reviewed it yet?
Like I said, that was the series' one big weakness, and they've corrected it this year. I pointed out a few posts up that Madden's momentum physics were its strength, but everything else feels straight out of Tecmo Bowl. Not that that's at all a bad thing, just not as realism-oriented as 2K.Quote:
Yeah, Madden, with it's realistic momentum is way more arcadey than ESPN, where you can make a 90 degree turn with practically no loss of speed. That makes an enormous difference, and not just in the running game.
Who said Madden sucks? I mean, John Madden sucks, but his game's just fine. Uglier, later and more expensive, but just fine ;)Quote:
They're both damn fine football games, and which is better comes down to personal preference. It still annoys the shit out of me to see all the people claiming that Madden sucks merely because they're raving Sega fanboys.
Heh, I just tried it. "The Lakers have declined your trade". Apparently my Xbox is smarter than Mitch Kupchack.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Any one going to start a TNL league or anything for ESPN 2k5? (I'll be getting the xbox vers)
Which was my point, with you saying ESPN/2k gets the same or better reviews every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
Didn't Sega claim they fixed it last year, too?Quote:
Like I said, that was the series' one big weakness, and they've corrected it this year.
It happens in practically every thread with either Madden or ESPN in the title. This thread has been pretty devoid of it, although plenty of people are talking up ESPN's "innovation" and decrying Madden as "stagnant," which is crazy. Yeah, that first person mode was real innovative, too bad it sucked balls. And wether you like it or not, Playmaker's the most innovative gameplay feature that's actually useful to be added to a football game in years.Quote:
Who said Madden sucks?
I'm getting the Xbox version and would love to start a league. Anybody who's interested PM me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Like Wasabi
Hot Like Wasabi can I pencil you in?
PM sent. I'll have the Xbox version within a few days of it's release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Videodrone
You can pencil me in, Brad too. I've been playing football video games for close to 10 years, IMHO ESPN pwns Madden.
Awesome. I'll setup an official league thread later after I'm done playing Full Spectrum on XBL.
Official TNL 2K5 XBL league thread
Join us!
OK you GS/EB slaves, is "released on the 20th" mean that it *ships* on the 20th and I can't hold a copy until the 21st? Or can I go at open tomorrow and get my fix?
Also, anyone care to wager on the chances of Wal-Mart shelving their stock tonight?
Ships on the 20th to be in stores the 21st.Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
And Wal-Mart, and all the times i've gone there at midnight - 2 am, have NEVER put the games out early. The DVD's, yes, but never ever the games.
" I also felt Playmaker started taking the game away from realism - you never, ever see QBs redirecting routes unless they're scrambling, and even then I can only think of a couple of guys who do it (DMac, Brees who doesn't even start anymore). Basically, I think they wanted to turn the whole game into a Michael Vick simulator."
This is true, and it's total garbage.
Owning both Madden 2004 and NFL2K3, I would say the guy is defineatly talking out his ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Gave Madden a spin 2 days ago. I have'nt been more pissed off at a game in quite a while. I was playing as the Rams and marched the team down to the goal line on my first drive. Marshall Faulk is well known for his hands and not fumbleing the ball often. I ran a pitch play to the right. Marshall runs towards the goal line and runs head on into a free safety. He fumbles the ball and lays on the ground for a good 3 seconds. I switch to my other player next to him, but he too is laying on the ground. Needless to say, one of Green Bay's players, snatches up the ball and proceeds down the outside line of the field. I have 4 players within reach of the GB player and they seem to move in slow motion, while the GB player is running like lightning. He proceeds to run 99 yards, for a touchdown. This would'nt be so bad, if the same thing did'nt happen again. I was running down the field with my running back (Marshall Faulk) and he fumbles again. PLEASE! A GB player pickes up the ball and again, my players are running like Molasses! The game is so arcadey, it is'nt even funny.
Popped in NFL 2K3 and had no problems with lame fumbles, or turnovers resulting in huge runbacks for touch downs. I threw one interception and my players actually responded to the play that was happening.
I don't see how anyone can overlook such a huge flaw with Madden. As I've stated ealier in this thread. Cover 2 defense is practically useless in Madden. Once a player breaks into the secondary, they seem to get a sudden burst of speed, that should'nt exist. :bang:
Ever heard of sliders? Maybe you should adjust them.
Yes, I have. The default settings should'nt be that messed up. It's totally out of balance. Like I said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint of Killers
Quote:
Marshall Faulk is well known for not fumbling the football!
So you're stating that easily adjustable default settings make ESPN a superior game?
No, I'm saying that one of the best players in the league, should'nt fumble the ball like some rookie and then the opposing team returns the ball (just about every time) for a touchdown. I like my football games to be more realistic. At least the NFL2K series (ESPN) makes it more reasonable. If I turn the ball over, at least my players react to what is happening on the field and adjust to it. In Madden they become slow slugs, while the guy who intercepts/picks up a fumble, becomes the fastest guy on the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint of Killers
Is adjusting sliders against your religion?
Adjusting sliders shouldn't be necessary. The game should play out of the box as if it were the real thing, and sliders can be thrown in to arcade it up if you feel like it.
That really isn't much of an argument, since adjusting sliders is insanely fucking easy.
It's not an argument, it's an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint of Killers