Hitomi in DOAU!!

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Originally Posted by Changeling

So I guess the American developers saved videogaming from the great crash of the early 80's. Ummm no, I think that was Nintendo and Myamoto's Super Mario Bros.
Whatever...

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What you said is true, even though it's arguable whether or not we would have come out of it eventually without Nintendo doing it for us.

But that doesn't change the fact that video games were really invented here. If you talk about founding fathers you really are talking about the people who founded gaming, or the inventors. I know what your statement meant, but that doesn't mean that it was technically true. It's all a matter of semantics.

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Originally Posted by Changeling

So I guess the American developers saved videogaming from the great crash of the early 80's. Ummm no, I think that was Nintendo and Myamoto's Super Mario Bros.
Whatever...

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LOL. Ive talked about this before, but the whole idea of "the great crash" is a myth. I bet if I asked you what caused the crash, you'd say that it was "loads and loads of crappy games for the 2600/Intellivision/Colecovision that were coming out. Then Nintendo saved the industry". That was a load of horse manure that Nintendo used to justify the seal of approval/licensing process for the NES. People bought it hook line and sinker and now sadly it is fact. I forget what book it's in... but umm it might be Game Over, or it might be The First Quarter. You should The First Quarter, at least.

I'll also tell you while this "great crash" was going on, gaming on the PC/Mac/Atari/Amiga/C64 was still doing great. In fact, some of the best games ever, like Ultima III, came out during this so-called "crash". And the PC platform has been doing just fine for the past 20 years or so without a licensing process.

So yes, yes, the console gaming industry had a slump, a downturn, in the early 1980s, but by no means did the gaming industry as a whole bottom out, and one can argue that Nintendo didn't do the game industry any favors, really, considering they used this "savior of gaming" licensing process to bully retailers and developers... and by 1988 they were just a monstrous monopoly.

Now, Im not trying to say that Japanese game developers are irrelevant to gaming - thatd be nonsense. They've been hugely influential, especially from 85-95, and changed the face of gaming a number of times. However, to call them "founding fathers" would be ridiculous - like calling Abraham Lincoln a founding father. They just aren't founding fathers. It's not the right term. It doesn't work.

So STFU and come back when you know what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by SonofdonCD

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Now look at that list. That's a good Top 10 list. How many are from the developers Yoshi mentioned? We are seeing less and less great games coming from these guys, maybe not from lost of creativity, maybe even not from boosted egos; I can't answer that question. But these guys have become more figureheads for their respective companies, especially Miyamoto, Suzuki and Naka, so maybe that has something to do with it.

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While I disagree with the top 10(not exactly my tastes), you are right about the guys becoming figure heads rather than game makers.

Thogh you can't deny Miyamoto's huge influence to the industry. Super Mario Bros, and Zelda have had a massive impact tot eh industry. Same could be said for Doom, Half Life, Star Craft etc.

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Originally Posted by SonofdonCD

Now look at that list. That's a good Top 10 list. How many are from the developers Yoshi mentioned? We are seeing less and less great games coming from these guys, maybe not from lost of creativity, maybe even not from boosted egos; I can't answer that question. But these guys have become more figureheads for their respective companies, especially Miyamoto, Suzuki and Naka, so maybe that has something to do with it.

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Your list proves that American companies are getting better about making great games that cater to American tastes, not that Japanese companies are getting worse. American gamers, for example, are far more into FPS titles than Japanese gamers are, thus you don't see many from Japanese companies, and American companies put more a lot of work into making them, and the games become high profile over here. Simple logic.

I think you're seeing more Western games on Western wish lists because Western console game companies, in recent years, are getting better at what they do. The selection of good games aren't just Japanese ones, and as Western-created games are made more for Western audiences, they are more popular.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

Your list proves that American companies are getting better about making great games that cater to American tastes, not that Japanese companies are getting worse. American gamers, for example, are far more into FPS titles than Japanese gamers are, thus you don't see many from Japanese companies, and American companies put more a lot of work into making them, and the games become high profile over here. Simple logic.

I think you're seeing more Western games on Western wish lists because Western console game companies, in recent years, are getting better at what they do. The selection of good games aren't just Japanese ones, and as Western-created games are made more for Western audiences, they are more popular.

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True, but what I said isn't addressing what you just said. My whole point was in discussing the five specific names mentioned earlier by Yoshi: Miyamoto, Suzuki, Naka, Mikami and Kojima. That list wasn't talking about any sort of decline in Japanese gaming as a whole, but against those five specifically.

Go back and reread the conversation right before I posted that remark, then it should be more clear what my point was.

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Originally Posted by SonofdonCD

Just think about it. What are some of the most anticipated games for this fall into the beginning of next year?

Halo 2
Doom 3
Half-Life 2 (or as I like to call them, "The Holy Trinity")
GTA: San Andreas
Fable
Gran Turismo 4
Jade Empire
Star Wars: KOTOR 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Resident Evil 4

Now look at that list. That's a good Top 10 list. How many are from the developers Yoshi mentioned?

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Two. MGS3 is Kojima, and RE4 is Mikami. You'd have to pay me the $50 to play GT4, so I could replace that with Pikmin 2 and get Miyamoto on the list.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

LOL. Ive talked about this before, but the whole idea of "the great crash" is a myth. I bet if I asked you what caused the crash, you'd say that it was "loads and loads of crappy games for the 2600/Intellivision/Colecovision that were coming out. Then Nintendo saved the industry". That was a load of horse manure that Nintendo used to justify the seal of approval/licensing process for the NES. People bought it hook line and sinker and now sadly it is fact. I forget what book it's in... but umm it might be Game Over, or it might be The First Quarter. You should The First Quarter, at least.

I'll also tell you while this "great crash" was going on, gaming on the PC/Mac/Atari/Amiga/C64 was still doing great. In fact, some of the best games ever, like Ultima III, came out during this so-called "crash". And the PC platform has been doing just fine for the past 20 years or so without a licensing process.

So yes, yes, the console gaming industry had a slump, a downturn, in the early 1980s, but by no means did the gaming industry as a whole bottom out, and one can argue that Nintendo didn't do the game industry any favors, really, considering they used this "savior of gaming" licensing process to bully retailers and developers... and by 1988 they were just a monstrous monopoly.

Now, Im not trying to say that Japanese game developers are irrelevant to gaming - thatd be nonsense. They've been hugely influential, especially from 85-95, and changed the face of gaming a number of times. However, to call them "founding fathers" would be ridiculous - like calling Abraham Lincoln a founding father. They just aren't founding fathers. It's not the right term. It doesn't work.

So STFU and come back when you know what you're talking about.

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I was so pwned , huh. You got me on some history. Yeah whatever. You mention PC games that were good during the crash. We are talking console games, you fucking poof. I am talking about Japanese developers that created the modern platformer . a developer that practically started action/adventure. These men created worlds and stories, not just blips and bleeps that you "American" forefathers did.
You can bet your sweet as that if it wasn't for Nintendo's 8 bit system coming out in the mid 80's, that console gaming would not be here today. We would be playing games on the PC and PC only. You Amreican "forefathers" would have been content to let console gaming pass as another "fad"
So please come back at me again and so on and on and on and on...... Then you can just say "you're not worth my time.......pwned"

diffx wins......the cocksucker award :link:

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Originally Posted by Changeling

you fucking poof

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

You either drink too much, or not enough. I'm not sure which.

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Originally Posted by SonofdonCD

Go back and reread the conversation right before I posted that remark, then it should be more clear what my point was.

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Point taken.