Hitomi in DOAU!!

Printable View

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

23 Jul 2004, 12:27 PM
Diff-chan

Back in the early 1990s every Miyamato game was a numba one stunna: Super Mario Bros. 3! Then he moved on to SNES, and made Super Mario World! F-Zero! Then he made Super Mario Kart! Then, Legeld of Zelda: A Link to the Past! And the hits just kept rolling. Truly spectacular, innit? Easily the greatest output by any game designer to date, in such a short period of time.

Now, he hasnt made a really great, groundbreaking game since Super Mario 64, eight years ago (Ill give you Ocarina of Time if you want, but that was still six years ago). Pikmin was mediocre at best and Pikmin 2 is more of the same. The guy is just coasting and has been for a very long time. And arent Pikmin/Pikmin 2 the only two games he has really had a direct involvement with on GameCube? I rest my case. Even if you think Pikmin is a great game, there's no way it compares to his SNES output.

Naka? Umm do I even have to explain myself? What has he done that is even halfway decent since NiGHTS? Hell, even NiGHTS was overrated! Some of Sonic Team's DC ventures were quite nice, like Samba De Amigo, but come on. Im hardly the only person who thinks theyre shoveling shit now. Just look at Sonic Heroes.

Suzuki? The only thing that has remained constant over the years is his enormous ego. Now they are just riding on the success of Virtua Fighter. Outrun 2 is decent but come on, its no Daytona (I dont even like Am2's racing games, and even I know it doesnt measure up to their past games).

Kojima has always been stupid and ridiculous and now its even more so. He made some shitty text adventure games on the SegaCD that idiots like Lucas Barton blow their load over and some Metal Gear games. WOOOW! Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2 rode on a wave of hype that doesnt exist for MGS3. Both MGS and MGS2 were good games, yes, but no more than 7/10s. When you add in the ridiculous stories, the "I Live on Through This Arm"s or the "You can call me Otakon. It stands for Otaku Convention"s, you get 5/10s. And since when do great game designers make a career out of 5/10s?

As for Mikami... he's probably the best of all those listed.
23 Jul 2004, 12:30 PM
PepsimanVsJoe

Wow it's like they didn't change a thing.

Kojima- After MGS3 he is fairly dead in the water..he's mentioned before that he's done with the series afterwards and outside of 10 people nobody cares about his other stuff.

Miyamoto- He's farmed out Zelda to the same Capcom development team that handled the GBC Oracle Zeldas..brilliant move as those two games were some of the best in the series...but what is Miyamoto doing right now? NOTHING..What will he be doing next year? NOTHING. And No..Mario Sunshine 2 or whatever doesn't count.

Mikami- The DMC guy or whatever? I barely know who he is now..how the fuck am I going to keep track of his obscure ass next year or whenever else?

Suzuki- Virtua Quest looks to be a huge disappointment, seems intent on doing nothing but Virtua Fighter updates, allowed Space Harrier to turn to filth(Thanks Planet Harriers). Outrun 2? Wow..congrats..

Naka- Not even worth mentioning.

Itagaki- Has released one of the highest rated action games this year that only three people actually hate and actually has games to work on in 2005.

ITAGAKI IS THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE KIDS!
That's right! Support Elite Japanese Videogame Egos that ACTUALLY WORK!
23 Jul 2004, 12:37 PM
MechDeus

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepsimanVsJoe

Kojima- After MGS3 he is fairly dead in the water..he's mentioned before that he's done with the series afterwards and outside of 10 people nobody cares about his other stuff.

Boktai was great and Boktai 2 should also be really good.
23 Jul 2004, 12:40 PM
NeoZeedeater

I think some people are putting WAY too much blame and praise for games solely on the producers. Yes, they're in charge but if say Sonic Team has gone downhill it's not all Naka's fault.

And how many Sonic Team bashers have actually played Billy Hatcher and PSO Episode III? They aren't GOTY material but they're still great games.
23 Jul 2004, 12:46 PM
Wolffen

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechDeus

To be fair, the two shots are of vastly different quality. DOAU does look better then DOA2 since it's running on the DOA3 engine, but in direct comparision it also does better then the shots you posted. I could post two screenshots from the same game of different quality and achieve the same effect.

And to be fair, one is on the PS2, and one is on the Xbox. Here's a better shot:
http://www.destroy-all-monsters.com/images/doa2-04.jpg
And if I remember correctly, DOA:U is using the DOA:XV engine, not the DOA3 engine (although DOA:XB might be considered DOA3 with a make over). I've got the DC version of DOA2, and the graphical differences between the PS2 and DC version were negligible (at least IMO).
23 Jul 2004, 12:56 PM
Yoshi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Not Shade

Unless you're saying that his lack of significant contribution makes his ego that much more unbearable. Which I can understand, but I honestly think it's kind of silly to get miffed at the guy just because he takes pride in his work.

It's not him so much as his following. Even at TNL, where most people have at least a moderate knowledge of the industry, we get threads like "Itagaki Does it Again". It's easy to ignore one man. It's much harder when he has brainwashed flying monkeys following him around.
23 Jul 2004, 12:58 PM
Diff-chan

And usually "it" is "pleases his fans and does what they want him to do". I seriously do not see what is so wrong about a game developer doing shit that his fans want him to do. Lord knows the asshats you mentioned above dont do that.

Quote:

And how many Sonic Team bashers have actually played Billy Hatcher and PSO Episode III? They aren't GOTY material but they're still great games.

I played them. Average at best, pure shit at worst.
23 Jul 2004, 01:06 PM
Yoshi

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

And usually "it" is "pleases his fans and does what they want him to do". I seriously do not see what is so wrong about a game developer doing shit that his fans want him to do. Lord knows the asshats you mentioned above dont do that.

You have read his arrogant response about Ninja Gaiden 1.1 right? About how it is only free because it is something he wanted to do? He said that if it were for the fans, he would have made them pay for it.
23 Jul 2004, 01:06 PM
MechDeus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolffen

And if I remember correctly, DOA:U is using the DOA:XV engine, not the DOA3 engine (although DOA:XB might be considered DOA3 with a make over).

Yeah, I debated correcting myself earlier but figured it didn't really matter since one's just a tweaked version of the other.

Quote:

I've got the DC version of DOA2, and the graphical differences between the PS2 and DC version were negligible (at least IMO).

VGA. DOA2 definately looked awesome back then, I remember watching that intro movie in awe over and over (with the American accented Japanese lyrics that always made me think they were singing English).
23 Jul 2004, 01:12 PM
Diff-chan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshi

You have read his arrogant response about Ninja Gaiden 1.1 right? About how it is only free because it is something he wanted to do? He said that if it were for the fans, he would have made them pay for it.

Thats not what he said.

Here's what he said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itagaki

If we were doing it purely for our fans, this package might have been charged.
So, players who are going to play Hurricane Pack should understand the contents have become free because your interests and ours have met by chance. You should not complain that other game's downloadable contents available are being charged.

So, basically, the developers were already working on upgrading the engine, and they decided to just release it to fans. If it was a mandate from above that they had to upgrade the engine, then they would've charged for it.

In any case, the circumstances are irrelevant. Fact is, they made this upgrade available to fans for free (and fans didnt even really ask for it). They put Hitomi into DOAU because fans want it. They made DOAXB as fanservice. Etc. etc. Team Ninja puts a lot of work into pleasing their fanbase.
23 Jul 2004, 02:07 PM
MarkRyan

Hideo Kojima's games are infinitely superior to Team Ninja's. I'd take Boktai on GBA any day over Ninja Gaiden, not to mention Zone of the Enders 2 and Metal Gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

In any case, the circumstances are irrelevant. Fact is, they made this upgrade available to fans for free (and fans didnt even really ask for it). They put Hitomi into DOAU because fans want it. They made DOAXB as fanservice. Etc. etc. Team Ninja puts a lot of work into pleasing their fanbase.

EA makes Madden after Madden and updates the rosters and features for fans. Capcom made Capcom vs. SNK for fans. Blizzard made Warcraft III for fans. Bungie is working hard on Halo 2 for fans. Rockstar is making GTA: San Andreas for fans.

Doing things fans want is nothing new--it's how people sell games.
23 Jul 2004, 02:09 PM
Diff-chan

I wasnt talking about other companies, chief. The only other game developers I mentioned were the idiots that Yoshi mentioned, and yea... Team Ninja does work for the fans a lot more than those guys.

Quote:

I'd take Boktai on GBA any day over Ninja Gaiden, not to mention Zone of the Enders 2 and Metal Gear.

Good for you.
23 Jul 2004, 02:13 PM
MarkRyan

I wasn't talking about just the developers mentioned. I used a wide-range of developers of different genres to demonstrate the obvious fact that all video games are designed and made for fans.

Throwing in a character from a past game or releasing a patch to try and make better a game are nothing out of the ordinary at all.
23 Jul 2004, 02:14 PM
Diff-chan

All those companies you listed, with the exception of Capcom, are Western. And Capcom vs. SNK is terrible. Maybe its more common outside of Japan, because many Japanese developers certainly seem to push the "youll play what we tell you to play" idea. Especially Nintendo.

So if Itagaki is taking a hint from American/Canadian/European developers, hooray! Maybe everyone else on that island will.
23 Jul 2004, 02:21 PM
MarkRyan

...I just said that I wasn't talking about just the developers mentioned. SNK made how many fighting games for fans? Konami makes how many Yu-Gi-Oh games for fans? Nintendo makes how many Pokémon games because fans want them?

Everyone that makes video games makes games that they believe fans want. Again, because Itagaki includes a previous character in a new-release doesn't mean he's doing anything special--Capcom, Namco, SEGA, SNK, Sammy, etc. have been doing this for years.
23 Jul 2004, 02:22 PM
Joust Williams

Why don't YOU take a hint:

I like Nintendo games. I'm a fan. They give me what I want. They give the fans what they want.

Just because they don't give YOU what you want, doesn't mean squadoosh. And I don't care if you complain about it.

You're not a fan. You admit that you don't even play games. Every opinion you have of a game is from someone at your crap EB. You constantly harped on Madden being a bettr game, and when you were painted into a corner, it was made clear that it was your boss, rather than you, that formed the opinion. Newsflash: Distancing yourself away from games doesn't make you any less than a dork.
23 Jul 2004, 02:23 PM
Diff-chan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joust Williams

I like Nintendo games. I'm a fan.

Cause you're an idiot.

Quote:

Nintendo makes how many Pokémon games because fans want them?

LOL! What about Pokemon MMORPG and SRPG games? Games that fans have been desiring for YEARS? Nintendo doesnt give a shit about fans and they havent since the N64 days. I know because I used to be one.
23 Jul 2004, 02:23 PM
Wolffen

What the hell was this thread about again?
23 Jul 2004, 02:25 PM
Joust Williams

How am I the idiot? I recall someone tellling me their opinion of you when they met you.

"He tries to act cool. When we were talking about the internet or something, he continually had to say, 'let's not talk about that, its nerdy'."

Keeping that in mind, I have to laugh.

" about Pokemon MMORPG and SRPG games? Games that fans have been desiring for YEARS? Nintendo doesnt give a shit about fans and they havent since the N64 days. I know because I used to be one."

Who gives a hell what a few people want? I wanted a good game and I didn't get one with NG. Oh crap, he didn't appease the fans! I'M NOT A FAN ANYMORE! For someone CONSTANTLY telling everyone the world doesn't revolve around themselves, you certainly seem to think it revolves around you.
23 Jul 2004, 02:27 PM
Roufuss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joust Williams

They give the fans what they want.

Where's online play? Why does Nintendo force me to buy TWO games on TWO seperate systems just to fully experience a full game? (Mario Golf Advance). Why do they always bring out these "new and innovative" ideas only to shit on them after all the fans picked it up? (E-reader). Why are all of nintendo's games this gen, except for a scant few, just rehashes and retreads of it's older crap?

Quote:

You're not a fan. You admit that you don't even play games. Every opinion you have of a game is from someone at your crap EB. You constantly harped on Madden being a bettr game, and when you were painted into a corner, it was made clear that it was your boss, rather than you, that formed the opinion. Newsflash: Distancing yourself away from games doesn't make you any less than a dork.

You don't even know the guy so this whole statement is just hilarious.
23 Jul 2004, 02:28 PM
Joust Williams

I don't have to know him. Unless you have zero perception in the world, you can see this.
23 Jul 2004, 02:28 PM
Roufuss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joust Williams

I don't have to know him. Unless you have zero perception in the world, you can see this.

What's funny is that I do know him, and that statement is pretty much 100% wrong.

I think it's also funny you have some sort of grudge against someone you'll never even see or meet in your lifetime.
23 Jul 2004, 02:28 PM
MarkRyan

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

Cause you're an idiot.

LOL! What about Pokemon MMORPG and SRPG games? Games that fans have been desiring for YEARS? Nintendo doesnt give a shit about fans and they havent since the N64 days. I know because I used to be one.

Nintendo's games have a million times the substance of Team Ninja's.

As far as the other versions of Pokémon, a couple things: 1) Completely overhauling a game design, changing its genre entirely is a tad more than adding Hitomi as a playable character, and 2) I am certain that if Nintendo thought enough fans wanted that they'd make it. It's how business works!
23 Jul 2004, 02:29 PM
Joust Williams

Coming from you, I don't doubt you would say that. Doesn't amount to jack.

I don't have a grudge against him. He's a nerdy twerp that constantly comments on things he has zero clue about, in the attempt to look cool.
23 Jul 2004, 02:30 PM
Diff-chan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joust Williams

"He tries to act cool. When we were talking about the internet or something, he continually had to say, 'let's not talk about that, its nerdy'."

Hmm... interesting. When I met up with Josh and burgundy, yea, I didnt wanna talk about the internet. I much rather wanted to talk about them, their trip, how E3 was, how the hotel was, what they did, etc. We only had like 40 minutes to chat anyway. Heaven forbid.

Quote:

Who gives a hell what a few people want? I wanted a good game and I didn't get one with NG. Oh crap, he didn't appease the fans! I'M NOT A FAN ANYMORE! For someone CONSTANTLY telling everyone the world doesn't revolve around themselves, you certainly seem to think it revolves around you.

The world does revolve me. The sooner you realize this, the better.
23 Jul 2004, 02:30 PM
Roufuss

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkRyan

2) I am certain that if Nintendo thought enough fans wanted that they'd make it. It's how business works!

Bullshit.

If Nintendo can keep rehashing the sprites and pumping out sequels, with little to no effort, they are going to keep doing that until eternity as long as the fans keep buying en masse.

Just ask Capcom or SNK how that works.
23 Jul 2004, 02:31 PM
Joust Williams

So the fans ARE buying the games?

Wow, you're retarded. Which one is it? YES or NO?
23 Jul 2004, 02:32 PM
MarkRyan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roufuss

Bullshit.

If Nintendo can keep rehashing the sprites and pumping out sequels, with little to no effort, they are going to keep doing that until eternity as long as the fans keep buying en masse.

Just ask Capcom or SNK how that works.

As long as the fans keep buying? Are they buying games they want, or games they don't want?
23 Jul 2004, 02:32 PM
Diff-chan

Idiots are buying the games.
23 Jul 2004, 02:33 PM
Joust Williams

Says the guy who tries to act cool...

Hmm...
23 Jul 2004, 02:34 PM
MarkRyan

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

Idiots are buying the games.

Fans are often idiots, such as the fans of Itagaki.
23 Jul 2004, 02:36 PM
Joust Williams

Ah well, I gotta go.

These threads are always good for a bit of a chuckle to say the least ;p

"Nintendo doesn't deliver for the fans"
"The fans buy Nintendo games"

hhahahhhahahahah PICK ONE

GO USA morans
23 Jul 2004, 02:41 PM
dave is ok

Man, I cant wait for Nintendo to file for Chapter 13. I wish Game Boy and Game Boy Advance didnt exist
23 Jul 2004, 02:45 PM
mollipen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joust Williams

Who gives a hell what a few people want? I wanted a good game and I didn't get one with NG. Oh crap, he didn't appease the fans! I'M NOT A FAN ANYMORE! For someone CONSTANTLY telling everyone the world doesn't revolve around themselves, you certainly seem to think it revolves around you.

You're saying that only a "few" people would want a Pokemon MMORPG? Please. That game would sell better than crack if it were ever released.
23 Jul 2004, 04:16 PM
Bacon McShig

From 1up.com:

Quote:

Another element that might take some getting used to is the toughened-up reversal system. For those who can remember how all the different versions of the original DOA2 broke down, Ultimate employs the reversal commands from the original Naomi arcade version. That's to say it has four different commands, instead of three or two or one. Each of the four cardinal D-pad inputs, combined with the free button, reverses a high attack, a low attack, a middle punch, or a middle kick.

This system was pretty tough in its original incarnation, tough enough that Team Ninja implemented simpler sets of reversal commands for the Dreamcast and PlayStation 2 versions of DOA2. It seems like the right choice for Ultimate, though, considering the level of competition that the online mode will inspire. It makes sense to provide as much headroom as possible, giving advanced players something to set them apart and giving beginners a challenge to aspire to.

So maybe that'll quell a bit of people's problems with the reversals.
23 Jul 2004, 04:48 PM
PepsimanVsJoe

Nice try.

But I'm afraid it won't help :(

Oh and Mark/Yoshi/Bobby my offer is still open. Come down here to Kissimmee anytime you like and we'll hit up a few bars. Maybe we'll uh..play Gamecube together or something.
23 Jul 2004, 04:50 PM
Joust Williams

Uh oh

They aren't giving the fans what they want anymore. It is now no longer an accessible game, which is what the fans clamor for.

Florida's too far away. Come to Seattle. Our bars don't have GC though.
23 Jul 2004, 05:00 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

CNintendo doesnt give a shit about Americans and they havent since they existed.
23 Jul 2004, 05:08 PM
Jeremy

Well, you could have a GC tea party.
23 Jul 2004, 05:13 PM
PepsimanVsJoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Well, you could have a GC tea party.

Sounds just dandy! We could all get together and play...um...errh..
Anyone know some good Gamecube games? Cause I can't think of any.

Joust: I thought you left..but oh well..It's alright being a liar.
23 Jul 2004, 05:21 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepsimanVsJoe

Anyone know some good Gamecube games? Cause I can't think of any.

Thus far those were mostly the best kind of games made for the system.

FFCC, Zelda:FS, SSBM, ToS, MK:DD, WR:BS, CRBR, Ribbit King.

It pretty much sucks in comparison with other consoles in every other area though.
23 Jul 2004, 05:23 PM
Diff-chan

Damian, that list is just sad.
23 Jul 2004, 05:24 PM
Jeremy

Would Ribbit King really count, seeing that it's on the PS2 and all?
23 Jul 2004, 05:25 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Would Ribbit King really count, seeing that it's on the PS2 and all?

Cross platform games count as they would on other consoles. As a get together and play game system, the GC is easily the best of the three this gen.
23 Jul 2004, 05:27 PM
Jeremy

Halo and the Xbox disagree. I'm not even an FPS fan and I'll say that game just becomes awesome with multi-player. The most fun I've had with multi-player GC stuff has come from handing the controller back and forth while playing RCR EX. And that's after a snore-fest inducing thirty minute play of Double Dash.
23 Jul 2004, 05:27 PM
PepsimanVsJoe

CRBR? wtf?
23 Jul 2004, 05:30 PM
Jeremy

Custom Robo Butt Raping?
23 Jul 2004, 05:34 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Halo and the Xbox disagree. I'm not even an FPS fan and I'll say that game just becomes awesome with multi-player. The most fun I've had with multi-player GC stuff has come from handing the controller back and forth while playing RCR EX. And that's after a snore-fest inducing thirty minute play of Double Dash.

Hah, point taken. MVC2 and SSBM were the ones for me. Handicaps versing my brother were awesme.
23 Jul 2004, 05:36 PM
Jeremy

I find the original Smash Bros. to be more fun than Melee, in both single and multi-player stuff. The GC controller just doesn't fit that game all that well.
23 Jul 2004, 05:41 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

I find the original Smash Bros. to be more fun than Melee, in both single and multi-player stuff. The GC controller just doesn't fit that game all that well.

I disagree. The original was fun and all, but the sequel added much need game balancing to some characters and added a million things more. I have played both around 1000+ hours each. Though i must say I probably played MVC2 around the same time as both combined. :sweat:
23 Jul 2004, 05:45 PM
Jeremy

Melee added a lot of bells and whistles to things, and the Melee levels are fantastic, but I just can't get over how poorly the controls translated from the N64 pad.
23 Jul 2004, 05:51 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Melee added a lot of bells and whistles to things, and the Melee levels are fantastic, but I just can't get over how poorly the controls translated from the N64 pad.

I barely noticed. I suppose that comes from playing games via keboard for all those years. Shitty controls have nothing on me! kekekekeke
23 Jul 2004, 06:00 PM
Jeremy

That would explain it, as it takes me quite a while to get used to keyboard controls. They just aren't all that comfortable or intuitive to me.
23 Jul 2004, 06:19 PM
SearchManX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Melee added a lot of bells and whistles to things, and the Melee levels are fantastic, but I just can't get over how poorly the controls translated from the N64 pad.

Smash Brothers had poor controls since the N64... ;)

I happened to enjoy a ton of games on the Gamecube so far, but whatever, I doubt I can change any of your minds...
23 Jul 2004, 06:22 PM
Despair

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

I find the original Smash Bros. to be more fun than Melee, in both single and multi-player stuff. The GC controller just doesn't fit that game all that well.

No way. SSBM was much, much better game, and improved on the gameplay. I cant stand original, but me and dj had alot of fun with SSBM and he still playing it !

And WTF with all those stupid abbreviations?
23 Jul 2004, 06:41 PM
StriderKyo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian79

As a get together and play game system, the GC is easily the best of the three this gen.

Not if your friends are in high school or older. Halo alone has probably seen more multiplayer playtime around gaming land than Mario Party or Smash Bros. Toss in 4 player DoA, Project Gotham & Rallisport 1 & 2, sports games, Crimson Skies, Unreal and Pandora Tomorrow, and I'd say the box has the cube beat for multiplayer.
23 Jul 2004, 06:47 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by StriderKyo

Not if your friends are in high school or older. Halo alone has probably seen more multiplayer playtime around gaming land than Mario Party or Smash Bros. Toss in 4 player DoA, Project Gotham & Rallisport 1 & 2, sports games, Crimson Skies, Unreal and Pandora Tomorrow, and I'd say the box has the cube beat for multiplayer.

I suppose it is just my group of friends then. :D :p
23 Jul 2004, 06:51 PM
flux=rad

I can't believe that even a lot of the people that are anticipating this game are shitting all over it. You guys are acting like Dead or Alive is for retarded children. Don't buy into that nonsense that Virtua Fighter is a "deeper" game just because it's not newb-friendly. Yes, you have to learn more about your character in Virtua Fighter to be able to do anything, and button-mashing is almost never going to win you a match like it might in Dead or Alive. And I haven't spend as much time with Dead or Alive as I have with Tekken or some other games, but it seemed sufficiently "deep" to me. From what I played, it seemed like the Jab beats Throw, Throw beats Counter, Counter beats Jab gameplay was interesting enough.

I think you'd have a hard time convincing me that Virtua Fighter is any "deeper" than Tekken, Soul Calibur, or Dead or Alive.
23 Jul 2004, 07:02 PM
FuryFox

Quote:

Originally Posted by flux=rad

I think you'd have a hard time convincing me that Virtua Fighter is any "deeper" than Tekken, Soul Calibur, or Dead or Alive.

Don't even bother. I've gone into great detail on the relative notion of gameplay "depth" and how something like DOA can offer it without necessarliy having complex inputs, commands, or systems. It was, of course, waisted on deaf ears.

-also: Anyone who gets beat in this game by button-mashers just outright sucks.
23 Jul 2004, 07:03 PM
Yoshi

Quote:

Originally Posted by flux=rad

I think you'd have a hard time convincing me that Virtua Fighter is any "deeper" than Tekken, Soul Calibur, or Dead or Alive.

Would we have trouble convincing you that water is made up of two Hydrogen molecules and one Oxygen molecule too? They are both facts.
23 Jul 2004, 07:08 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuryFox

Anyone who gets beat in this game by button-mashers just outright sucks.

He isn't that bad at games. He was getting owned because it was way to easy alter combos mid combo to attack high/low etc. Also he couldn't grasp the idea that there was absolutely no need to use the punch button at all when kicks offer more range with same speed and power.

Of course it would be easier to convince me of the games depth if I couldn't beat the game with simply the kick button and not even touch the analog stick.
23 Jul 2004, 07:12 PM
MechDeus

Quote:

Originally Posted by flux=rad

From what I played, it seemed like the Jab beats Throw, Throw beats Counter, Counter beats Jab gameplay was interesting enough.

So you say you're content with an RPS system and that button mashing can work, but it's just as deep as fighters that go beyond the former and don't allow the latter? Do you even know what the word deep means in this reference?

Quote:

I think you'd have a hard time convincing me that Virtua Fighter is any "deeper" than Tekken, Soul Calibur, or Dead or Alive.

The defensive game in VF is far deeper then any other fighting game ever.

FYI, you seem to be confusing "deep" with "better." The former is sometimes indicitive of the latter to some but that's not true for everyone. Just because you enjoy a system of play doesn't mean that it's deeper then another.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian79

Of course it would be easier to convince me of the games depth if I couldn't beat the game with simply the kick button and not even touch the analog stick.

I got a friend you should fight. If you can beat him in DOA3 just using the kick button... actually, any of the buttons, I'll give you $20. His Tina's incredible.
23 Jul 2004, 07:19 PM
StriderKyo

Quote:

Originally Posted by flux=rad

I think you'd have a hard time convincing me that Virtua Fighter is any "deeper" than Tekken, Soul Calibur, or Dead or Alive.

I've got nothing against DoA or Soul Calibur, but if you really believe that, you have a lot to learn about VF4. That game beat me, and beat me bad. I had to quit when I finally realized the amount of training to fully absorb everything for even one or two characters would be equivalent to a part time job.
23 Jul 2004, 07:19 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I've got nothing against DoA or Soul Calibur, but if you really believe that, you have a lot to learn about VF4. That game beat me, and beat me bad. I had to quit when I finally realized the amount of training to fully absorb everything for even one or two characters would be equivalent to a part time job.

Heh, me too.
23 Jul 2004, 07:20 PM
Diff-chan

Quote:

Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I've got nothing against DoA or Soul Calibur, but if you really believe that, you have a lot to learn about VF4. That game beat me, and beat me bad. I had to quit when I finally realized the amount of training to fully absorb everything for even one or two characters would be equivalent to a part time job.

But does that automatically make the game better, or relegate DOA or Soul Calibur to the garbage can? Not asking you, being more rhetorical if anything (well, Yoshi seems to believe that).

Id say thats a mark against the game.
23 Jul 2004, 07:20 PM
MrWhitefolks

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkRyan

As long as the fans keep buying? Are they buying games they want, or games they don't want?

they're buying the games because they have to.

most "hardcore" nintendo fans dont own other systems, or wont purchase the same title even if it is developed and built better on other systems that they own...and they relish the fact that they get a NEW game on their respective system, regardless of how good it is.

you see this same type of attitude coming from the snk collectors/enthusiasts.

as far as Nintendo giving fans what they want, where's the online support for MarioKart,Kirby,or 1080? Oh thats right, it's called WARP-PIPE which was built by some FANS on their own network and servers so you can play them via your home internet/broadband.

oh, and don't you love the whole "we've got internet on the DS" crap? like it's ever going to be used. just another fucking port in that system that we have to pay extra for so Nintendo can go "We have an ethernet adapter too! Just like Sony! Who cares if we never ever use it and build up the hopes of our fanbase only to shit in their mouths?"

btw...can i get another Zelda game? Don't think i've had enough this generation(zelda3,zelda collection, zelda wind waker, zelda 4 swords, that NEW "gamecube(haha, right)" Zelda(starring new edgy adult link....who was in ocarina of time...DOH), and the new gba one comin out based on a story about a fucking hat.

YES! NINTENDO DEFFINETLY KNOWS WHAT I WANT! MORE ELFS STABBING DOG FACED GOBLINS PLZ! I WOULD NEVER WANT AN INNOVATIVE NEW TITLE OR ONLINE SUPPORT! OR A CONTROLLER THAT ISNT BUILT LIKE A RETARDED "SIMON" PAD! WHO NEEDS ADULT THEMED GAMES! AND FIGHTERS? NOBODY NEEDS THOSE! MY SIMON PAD IS BUILT FOR MARIO AND ZELDA ALONE(OR WHATEVER NINTENDO TELLS ME ITS USED FOR)! HOW ABOUT A SYSTEM THAT DOESNT FORCE ME TO OWN MULTIPLE GAMES TO PLAY ONE TITLE. YAY! I <3 NINTENDO! THEY R TEH BEST3ST!

btw....MGS2 = worst game in the series(worse than snakes revenge). Story is garbage, bosses are fucking pathetic, and Solidus was the biggest pussy known to man. Ever. Worse than Raiden.
23 Jul 2004, 07:21 PM
Shadow Not Shade

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

And how many Sonic Team bashers have actually played Billy Hatcher and PSO Episode III? They aren't GOTY material but they're still great games.

I played Billy Hatcher!

It was stupid and boring. :p
23 Jul 2004, 07:21 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechDeus

I got a friend you should fight. If you can beat him in DOA3 just using the kick button... actually, any of the buttons, I'll give you $20. His Tina's incredible.

Maybe when this hits. I live in Australia so it would be impossible at the moment. I kinda like being proved wrong.
23 Jul 2004, 07:22 PM
Diff-chan

Quote:

YES! NINTENDO DEFFINETLY KNOWS WHAT I WANT! MORE ELFS STABBING DOG FACED GOBLINS PLZ! I WOULD NEVER WANT AN INNOVATIVE NEW TITLE OR ONLINE SUPPORT! OR A CONTROLLER THAT ISNT BUILT LIKE A RETARDED "SIMON" PAD! WHO NEEDS ADULT THEMED GAMES! AND FIGHTERS? NOBODY NEEDS THOSE! MY SIMON PAD IS BUILT FOR MARIO AND ZELDA ALONE(OR WHATEVER NINTENDO TELLS ME ITS USED FOR)! HOW ABOUT A SYSTEM THAT DOESNT FORCE ME TO OWN MULTIPLE GAMES TO PLAY ONE TITLE. YAY! I <3 NINTENDO! THEY R TEH BEST3ST!

LOL!
23 Jul 2004, 07:28 PM
Shadow Not Shade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshi

It's not him so much as his following. Even at TNL, where most people have at least a moderate knowledge of the industry, we get threads like "Itagaki Does it Again". It's easy to ignore one man. It's much harder when he has brainwashed flying monkeys following him around.

... I'd say "brainwashed" might be exaggerating a bit. :x

If anyone here (and I haven't noticed any examples of this) sincerely believes Itagaki is a genius of game design, then yes, they are idiots. The DOA series is average at best (haven't played NG). Whether at TNL or elsewhere, I always got the impression that Itagaki was so popular because he throws lots of cool stuff into his games to please his fans. I don't see how showing a little appreciation for that makes someone an ignorant fanboy.
23 Jul 2004, 07:30 PM
StriderKyo

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

But does that automatically make the game better, or relegate DOA or Soul Calibur to the garbage can?

No, but it does make VF4 deeper which is what I was talking about. Doesn't really matter, since I traded my VF4 in for Morrowind or something.
23 Jul 2004, 07:30 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWhitefolks

oh, and don't you love the whole "we've got internet on the DS" crap? like it's ever going to be used. just another fucking port in that system that we have to pay extra for so Nintendo can go "We have an ethernet adapter too! Just like Sony! Who cares if we never ever use it and build up the hopes of our fanbase only to shit in their mouths?"

Um, it has been confirmed that if you have the right OS and hardware, you can play over your wireless LAN router/adapter. Though the current fees for WLAN may be putting a wrench into things.
23 Jul 2004, 07:35 PM
StriderKyo

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWhitefolks

OR A CONTROLLER THAT ISNT BUILT LIKE A RETARDED "SIMON" PAD!

How could you say that about Simon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Not Shade

If anyone here (and I haven't noticed any examples of this) sincerely believes Itagaki is a genius of game design, then yes, they are idiots. The DOA series is average at best (haven't played NG).

Ninja Gaiden is a product of genius game design, and is miles ahead of DoA. Unless you have a rare condition that gives you conniption fits when every character in an area isn't onscreen for roughly 7 minutes of a 20 hour game.
23 Jul 2004, 07:40 PM
Shadow Not Shade

I guess I'll have to take your word for it... I don't have an XBox to play NG on.

Okay, anyone who thinks the DOA series is an example of genius game design is a dummy.
23 Jul 2004, 07:44 PM
MrWhitefolks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian79

Um, it has been confirmed that if you have the right OS and hardware, you can play over your wireless LAN router/adapter. Though the current fees for WLAN may be putting a wrench into things.

i cant reply to this until you specify whether your talkin about the cube or the ds. : )
23 Jul 2004, 07:48 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWhitefolks

yeah, and the fact that no game will support the feature. it's nintendo man, cmon now. first they take away headphone ports on the gba. now you think they're actually gonna support a third of the shit theyve thrown on this handheld?

i could see like wireless multiplayer if you were all in the same room, 5 feet away from each other, playing mario 64 ds or whatever. but that's it.

That is the thing. If a game support that, then it was confirmed to also do the WLAN thing aswell. But with the recent issues of WLAn, that may longer be the case, here's hoping.

EDIT: I was talking about the DS.
23 Jul 2004, 07:59 PM
MrWhitefolks

why hope? it's nintendo. they've been collectively shooting themselves in the ass for almost a decade now. they always have a few really bitchin titles out the gate, then we get nothing but shit ports of 3rd party titles that are already on other systems(and for the most part, better to begin with).

here's the thing: if midway takes away support of your system, it's over. midway is one of the most money whoring port making 3rd party companies ever, and when they cant see any monitary reason for supporting you, pack up the fucking bags.

i honestly hope that nintendo went 3rd party like sega after the GC died, but apparently theyre too damn stubborn to realize they fucking suck in the home console market(they can keep on making handhelds for all i care, but for the love of god; quit wasting our god damn time with home consoles). :(
23 Jul 2004, 08:13 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWhitefolks

why hope? it's nintendo. they've been collectively shooting themselves in the ass for almost a decade now. they always have a few really bitchin titles out the gate, then we get nothing but shit ports of 3rd party titles that are already on other systems(and for the most part, better to begin with).

More like shooting themselves in their American ass than anything else. They are catering to the Japanese fans quite well otherwise they wouldn't be neck and neck hardware sales wise with the Xbox now on the worldwide scale.

If it costs them to keep it this way, then they won't keep it. It is all up to how things are different in America, if it is free like it would have been and still should be in Japan, then most likely we would be getting it.
23 Jul 2004, 08:22 PM
Tommy Tallarico

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian79

More like shooting themselves in their American ass than anything else.

Well, since the Japanese gaming industry is dying right now and the US' is doing pretty well, I'm not sure how that's not really, really relevant to Nintendo's downfall.
23 Jul 2004, 08:33 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kano on the Phone

Well, since the Japanese gaming industry is dying right now and the US' is doing pretty well, I'm not sure how that's not really, really relevant to Nintendo's downfall.

Because Nintendo is kicking ass there:

Number of titles per software maker in top 100:

1 Nintendo 28
2 Bandai 9
3 Konami 8
4 Capcom 7
5 Square-Enix 6
6 Sony Computer Entertainment
Namco
Banpresto 5
9 Pokemon 4
10 Koei
Sega 3

http://game-science.com/news/000658.html
23 Jul 2004, 08:41 PM
MechDeus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diffusionx

But does that automatically make the game better, or relegate DOA or Soul Calibur to the garbage can?

I would say it makes the game better to me but that's because I tend to put more time into fighting games then most gamers (or at least, I used to, it's been a while since I've played any fighting game). With a lot of 3D fighters you tend to get a bunch of moves that are absolutely superflous and seem to be there for no reason other then to pad the moves list and VF doesn't suffer so much from this. More usable moves means more available attacks which means more ways to manauver and hurt your opponent. On top of that VF has a more balanced character roster and the physics always work the same, unlike SC2 where sometimes the same hit will cause characters to move different ways or shift their hit box differently based on... I have no idea. Cloud patterns and traffic formations or something, probably. Along with that comes different sets of defensive abilities with each character based on their fighting style, making you defend more like they would have to instead of having Shaolin Fist share everything that Drunken does (which makes little sense).

It offers more variety, caters to more play styles, and gives more options in just about every regard. It also requires you to put more work into it in order to get more out of it, whether or not you like that depends on how much time you're willing to put into it. Hundred Swords may be fine if you want a simplified RTS that you aren't willing to put much time into but it's not going to hold over someone used to Age of Mythology, now is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian79

Maybe when this hits. I live in Australia so it would be impossible at the moment. I kinda like being proved wrong.

I don't know if Tina's as devastating in DOA2 (or this tweaked version, anyway) as she is in DOA3 but if I can get him over here after this is out we'll definately hook up.
23 Jul 2004, 09:09 PM
Tigana

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

But does that automatically make the game better, or relegate DOA or Soul Calibur to the garbage can? Not asking you, being more rhetorical if anything (well, Yoshi seems to believe that).

Id say thats a mark against the game.

Well, it depends on what kind of player you are. If you are an arcade junkie it makes the game better, combo vids and stuff are popular for a reason. If you are a casual fan, it might be off-putting, I knew a couple of my friends won't play the game because they can't pull of a Dragonlance or the Knee.
23 Jul 2004, 10:28 PM
mollipen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian79

More like shooting themselves in their American ass than anything else. They are catering to the Japanese fans quite well otherwise they wouldn't be neck and neck hardware sales wise with the Xbox now on the worldwide scale.

Please don't talk about the GC beating out the Xbox in Japan like it is some sort of accomplishment.
23 Jul 2004, 10:48 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by shidoshi

Please don't talk about the GC beating out the Xbox in Japan like it is some sort of accomplishment.

But beating it by enough there to equalise it with Xbox hardware sales worldwide is quite an accomplishment. And that is taking into account how much they are getting their ass kicked in America.
23 Jul 2004, 11:01 PM
Tommy Tallarico

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian79

But beating it by enough there to equalise it with Xbox hardware sales worldwide is quite an accomplishment. And that is taking into account how much they are getting their ass kicked in America.

And they're the most accomplished console maker in the world. Being just as good worldwide as a company whose never made a console before is hardly an accomplishment, especially since they've had to consistantly undercut Microsoft pricewise to keep up.
23 Jul 2004, 11:01 PM
Jeremy

Just saw some vids of Ultimate, such as a giant swing into an elephant, and a throw into a gong. This stuff should be fun to do in the game, as should throwing folks down steps. I doubt there are enough fun bits to form a game worth my $50, but one never knows. Online play should be a joy with it.
23 Jul 2004, 11:03 PM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kano on the Phone

And they're the most accomplished console maker in the world. Being just as good worldwide as a company whose never made a console before is hardly an accomplishment, especially since they've had to consistantly undercut Microsoft pricewise to keep up.

Are you saying that Microsoft has no idea how to sell electronics and software to the public?
23 Jul 2004, 11:06 PM
epmode

k, everyone shut up.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen010.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen009.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen018.jpg

gamespot impressions + lots of screens
ign impressions
23 Jul 2004, 11:10 PM
Tommy Tallarico

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

Are you saying that Microsoft has no idea how to sell electronics and software to the public?

Did I? Find that quote.
23 Jul 2004, 11:13 PM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kano on the Phone

And they're the most accomplished console maker in the world. Being just as good worldwide as a company whose never made a console before is hardly an accomplishment, especially since they've had to consistantly undercut Microsoft pricewise to keep up.

But it is an ac complishment when the other hardware is still 3x more powerful than it and making money on each console while they are at it. The accomplished console maker versus n00b cconsole maker evens out when you think of it that way.
23 Jul 2004, 11:19 PM
MechDeus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamespot

You won't be able to manipulate the camera when you're just watching a fight like you can in DOA2, which is mostly due to the fact that such functionality--at the height of DOA's original popularity--would have caused Saturns across Japan to explode (because the old 32-bit systems weren't big too on camera manipulation).

Like Battle Arena Toshinden?
24 Jul 2004, 01:30 AM
mollipen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian79

But beating it by enough there to equalise it with Xbox hardware sales worldwide is quite an accomplishment. And that is taking into account how much they are getting their ass kicked in America.

Dreamcast trounces the Xbox in sales whenever a new game for it comes out. Xbox sells so few consoles in Japan that I don't think they even bother to count. GameCube gets a free ride over the Xbox in Japan, so it isn't something to be impressed with.

And hot damn do I love that new outfit for Ayane. Poor girl always gets such crap costumes, so I'm glad to see that.
24 Jul 2004, 01:37 AM
voltz

Quote:

Originally Posted by shidoshi

Dreamcast trounces the Xbox in sales whenever a new game for it comes out. Xbox sells so few consoles in Japan that I don't think they even bother to count. GameCube gets a free ride over the Xbox in Japan, so it isn't something to be impressed with.

Well that's japanise culture for ya.

Quote:

And hot damn do I love that new outfit for Ayane. Poor girl always gets such crap costumes, so I'm glad to see that.

Is this the Deception costume you're talking about? She looks so perfect that way. :p
24 Jul 2004, 02:08 AM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by shidoshi

Dreamcast trounces the Xbox in sales whenever a new game for it comes out. Xbox sells so few consoles in Japan that I don't think they even bother to count. GameCube gets a free ride over the Xbox in Japan, so it isn't something to be impressed with.

And hot damn do I love that new outfit for Ayane. Poor girl always gets such crap costumes, so I'm glad to see that.

I was talking about selling enough there to cover it up. Japan is like the reverse of America for Nintendo and MS. MS has shoddy maketing in Japan while Nintendo has shoddy marketing in America. The situation wouldn't be half as bad if they would recuce the size of it there, and the GC would do much better in America if it didn't look like a lunchbox. MS has shitty dev relations in Japan, while the same could be said in America for Nintendo.

In short it is like bizzarro world thewre in japan for Nintendo and MS.
24 Jul 2004, 02:34 AM
SonofdonCD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian79

I was talking about selling enough there to cover it up. Japan is like the reverse of America for Nintendo and MS. MS has shoddy maketing in Japan while Nintendo has shoddy marketing in America. The situation wouldn't be half as bad if they would recuce the size of it there, and the GC would do much better in America if it didn't look like a lunchbox. MS has shitty dev relations in Japan, while the same could be said in America for Nintendo.

In short it is like bizzarro world thewre in japan for Nintendo and MS.

Not quite.

Microsoft was going into a lose-lose situation. They're in a foreign land who typically NEVER support American gaming products. They are underperforming by a huge margin as compared to where they'd want to be right now.

Nintendo, on the other hand, has had success in America, where we've been overall more forgiving and hell, even ignorant as to the game's country of origin. If they'd get off their ass and remember how to be Nintendo (instead of this soft, "Play it safe and only do things that guarantee profits", rehash-crazy, innovative-deficient this generation company), then they'd be a lot closer to the dominating company of old.

In Japan I wouldn't say that Nintendo is overperforming at all; which is what you're implying (At least in the sense that they should be proud of their sales over Microsoft). They should be proud only in that case, but like it was stated earlier, they are only at an advantage since Microsoft is in such a disadvantage.

That's nothing to be proud about; they won by default.
24 Jul 2004, 02:49 AM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonofdonCD

In Japan I wouldn't say that Nintendo is overperforming at all; which is what you're implying (At least in the sense that they should be proud of their sales over Microsoft). They should be proud only in that case, but like it was stated earlier, they are only at an advantage since Microsoft is in such a disadvantage.

In comparison to sony then they are still doing well. Sony had HUGE momentum coming into this gen. Any console that is selling a 1/5th of what that juggernaut is selling in Japan, deserrves some credit for doing well. The GC for reference is selling at the exact same rate as the N64(which sold IIRC 8 million in Japan). Considering that, it is doing well.

And I was not comparing it to the Xbox saying that it is doing better, I am saying the margin is big enough to be competitive on a worldwide scale. And hence proving that they are doing something right. Anyone who says that Nintendo is doing anything right in America and Europe(well in some European countries prices are a big issue but most not) is nuts.
24 Jul 2004, 02:51 AM
mollipen

Quote:

Originally Posted by voltz

Is this the Deception costume you're talking about? She looks so perfect that way. :p

No, I was talking the tank top and jogging pants. But I love me some Deception outfit as well.
24 Jul 2004, 02:54 AM
SonofdonCD

What you said is true enough, but what I and others are trying to convey is that Nintendo didn't have to do practically ANYTHING to have better sales in Japan over Microsoft (hell, you said it yourself that Nintendo is performing numbers close to that of the N64; that says to me right there that they are just coasting on past successes). So if I were them, I wouldn't be proud of their sales until I came close to approaching Sony, which isn't gonna happen this gen.
24 Jul 2004, 03:04 AM
Damian79

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonofdonCD

What you said is true enough, but what I and others are trying to convey is that Nintendo didn't have to do practically ANYTHING to have better sales in Japan over Microsoft (hell, you said it yourself that Nintendo is performing numbers close to that of the N64; that says to me right there that they are just coasting on past successes). So if I were them, I wouldn't be proud of their sales until I came close to approaching Sony, which isn't gonna happen this gen.

Um, the Nintendo 64 was a huge failure in Japan. Now that thing was coasting on past successes and franchises. The GC on the other hand had only the franchises to work with and the momentum halted with the N64.
24 Jul 2004, 04:01 AM
SonofdonCD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian79

Um, the Nintendo 64 was a huge failure in Japan. Now that thing was coasting on past successes and franchises. The GC on the other hand had only the franchises to work with and the momentum halted with the N64.

Well, I never said the N64 was a success, now did I? :p

Besides, that doesn't change what I said earlier.

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:55 AM.