Newsflash: Working Designs Updates Their Site!

http://www.workingdesigns.com/
On a random check today, I found out that they had, indeed, posted an updated. I was startled.
Of course, Growlanser's been pushed back s'more, I believe, and the undefinite nature of the Goemon game I've been waiting for has been recognized.
Honestly, I really feel sorry for them. They haven't released a game in, what, a year and a half? Longer? All because Sony gives them so much shit about their releases. I'm not saying I always appreciate their releases (*cough* Silhouette Mirage *hack*), but I enjoy their crazy sense of humor. I'm also kinda wondering if they're just gonna disappear someday...

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Originally Posted by ChaoofNee

http://www.workingdesigns.com/
On a random check today, I found out that they had, indeed, posted an updated. I was startled.
Of course, Growlanser's been pushed back s'more, I believe, and the undefinite nature of the Goemon game I've been waiting for has been recognized.
Honestly, I really feel sorry for them. They haven't released a game in, what, a year and a half? Longer? All because Sony gives them so much shit about their releases. I'm not saying I always appreciate their releases (*cough* Silhouette Mirage *hack*), but I enjoy their crazy sense of humor. I'm also kinda wondering if they're just gonna disappear someday...

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Yes, Sony pushed their game back, but why in the hell does it take them well over a year to translate a game?

It didn't take Mastiff very long to nail La Pucelle, and Atlus is bringing out THREE of it's rpg's that it just recently announced before christmas of this year.

Atlus is translating three rpg's to WD's one?? I think they deserve whatever fate they get, there's really no excuse for their extremely slow behaviour, and the fact that they can't EVER hit a release date.

EDIT: Even Agetec will have Wild Arms Alter Code F out before the end of the year, and I can guarantee WD STILL won't have their game out in time.

I wonder if they'll ever update that circa paleolithic era webpage

They'll definitely eventually disappear, because a game ever 3 years does not make for a profitable company.

You do all realize that a company that wants to publish games that aren't sports or movie/tv based are the companies we want to keep around, right? You do also realize that a company being glacially slow isn't a reason to dislike them?

Any company that wants to do something different gets my support, and I don't care about their scheduling issues. I'm not running out of things to play while waiting for their games, after all.

James

they are not what they were. Atlus has, to a degree, become what they were, but better,maybe mastiff too. if they still had a consistent output or any interesting prospects down the line it would be one thing, but im not going to support a company out of nostalgia that has not done a damn thing i care about for an entire presidential administration.

Isn't the WD team really small too? They not only translate games but, at times, rewrite the scrips, some times for the better and others simply to add flavor to them. Also they often do a ton of reprograming, adding features, and removing others. Honestly WD is one high-class outfit. I wish SOA would stop giving them the shit-stick but that's damn unlikely because they are catering to a niche market. They have more of my respest than even Square has right now. I hope they find some success out there somewhere with some corporation.

BTW, that Growlanser package is damn fucking sexy!

Growlanser 2 has been done for a long while, WD mentioned that before, and I'm sure 3 has been done for some time as well. I'm no fan of WD, but I think the fault lies with Sony giving them grief for some reason.

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Originally Posted by James

You do also realize that a company being glacially slow isn't a reason to dislike them?

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Yes it is.

Anyway, if I were you, I'd join the bandwagon-hate just because the company fired me. But that's just me.

I doubt Working Designs is going anywhere. They've been around since the Turbografx-16 era and like a bad rash, they'll be around forever.

Sort of like Sega.....

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Originally Posted by dog$

Yes it is.

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beat me to it. working designs was relevant in the pre-dreamcast days, when such companies were nearly non-existant, but it's been downhill ever since.

it's one thing to delay a game like half-life 2 for a year, but quite another to have endless trouble with games that are already finished. good riddance.

If you don't already have a reason to dislike WD, watch that "making of" video that came with Lunar PSX. That, to me, pretty much cements one's dislike for the company.

WD always claimed to be about the fans, but then they'd tell the fans to piss off if they disagreed with how Vic ran things. And the way Vic ran things was like a six year old with a constant temper tantrum. Their translations have been shit, their voice acting was never of the level they liked to believe it was, and it took them far, far too long to understand that a lot of people didn't want to pay an extra $20 for a bunch of stupid "premium extras." As well, they often times "fixed" games that didn't need fixing, which no doubt caused many a delay.

Back when WD was the only company doing what they were doing, I may have disliked them, but I still wanted them around. Their usefulness, however, is now over. Many other companies are now doing what only they once did, so they are more than welcome to go away.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

If you don't already have a reason to dislike WD, watch that "making of" video that came with Lunar PSX. That, to me, pretty much cements one's dislike for the company.

WD always claimed to be about the fans, but then they'd tell the fans to piss off if they disagreed with how Vic ran things. And the way Vic ran things was like a six year old with a constant temper tantrum. Their translations have been shit, their voice acting was never of the level they liked to believe it was, and it took them far, far too long to understand that a lot of people didn't want to pay an extra $20 for a bunch of stupid "premium extras." As well, they often times "fixed" games that didn't need fixing, which no doubt caused many a delay.

Back when WD was the only company doing what they were doing, I may have disliked them, but I still wanted them around. Their usefulness, however, is now over. Many other companies are now doing what only they once did, so they are more than welcome to go away.

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you know more than a lot of us about the company since you have been in the biz for so long, but I for one, do enjoy the upbeat translation for games such as Lunar...I don't think I could play the game any other way...and I love the voice actors on most of the games...but that's just me...it seems a lot better than say Tales of Symphonia, where it is so stale and boring...

But of course I wish the games would come out faster...and what the hell ever happened to my second strat guide for Arc? I mean they just sort of let it disappear...

So yeah there is a ton of ego and whatnot, but I do think the quality is there...their newer guides are gorgeous, the games are fun, Arc the Lad is a must own collection...and I would love to see a few more games out of them before they run out of money...

That being said, I like the approach of Disgaea and La Pucelle more where we get both the original Japanese dialogue and the new translation, that would be the best way for WD to make its games, but that is never gonna happen probably...

Personally, I'd like to keep them around, there are few too many companies making (translating) this type of game, so Atlus, Mastiff, WD, etc...I'll take what I can get....

Will we see the game before Christmas??? Maybe, maybe not...

Yeah, it's all Sony's fault. I love how WD blames all their fuck ups and delays on everyone else but themselves and then people run around believing their bullshit lies. I'll give them the delay because of Sony wanting Growlanser as a compilation, but every other one? Fuck no. These delays happen with every single one of their releases. It's always happened. If they didn't bite off way more than they could fucking chew they'd probably get games out on time.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

If you don't already have a reason to dislike WD, watch that "making of" video that came with Lunar PSX. That, to me, pretty much cements one's dislike for the company.

WD always claimed to be about the fans, but then they'd tell the fans to piss off if they disagreed with how Vic ran things. And the way Vic ran things was like a six year old with a constant temper tantrum. Their translations have been shit, their voice acting was never of the level they liked to believe it was, and it took them far, far too long to understand that a lot of people didn't want to pay an extra $20 for a bunch of stupid "premium extras." As well, they often times "fixed" games that didn't need fixing, which no doubt caused many a delay.

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Word.

When WD dies off I'll say, "Good riddance." I never liked that company.

Like another poster here wrote, I don't mind the delays, I have too many games left unplayed anyway.

And their packaging is always class, you might not like their translation, and I was bothered by it alittle bit by the contemporary/political jokes they insert in their translation. I don't mind humor but not too much, sometimes they go overboard. Still, they do bring out some pretty nice games (albeit sloooooooowly). I hope to play Growlanser in 2004, but it looks to be 2005.

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Originally Posted by PepsimanVsJoe

I doubt Working Designs is going anywhere. They've been around since the Turbografx-16 era and like a bad rash, they'll be around forever.

Sort of like Sega.....

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Someone please tell me that PvJ didn't just compare WD to Sega. I don't have the time right now to find him and kill him.

Didn't Vic come into the GameGo! forums way back when, and bascially act like an asshole?

Like it was said back then, as it is now, the role that WD used to play is no longer filled by them. Localizing weird imports, RPGs, and shooters is being done by a lot of companies now; and faster.

My opinion:
WD was able to get top games like Lunar because nobody else would touch it. When other companies started outbidding WD for the localization rights, they couldn't compete. Case in point: Grandia 2 and Record of Lodoss War.

I'll never understand why it took them so long to release the shooters they localized. It's like they paid all this money to get a game, and then just sat on it.

I don't really care anymore though. I wish WD would get bought by Crave or Atlus even. I'm glad they did Lunar and Popful Mail, but for a long time it's just been, yawn.

Actually Yoshi my friend if you came down here like I stated in the DOAU thread we'd head out to bars and have some drinks.

I like Sega too but eh well. I mean weren't they relevant in the pre-Dreamcast days? Hmm..nevermind

KIDDING..kidding

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Originally Posted by kingoffighters

Like another poster here wrote, I don't mind the delays, I have too many games left unplayed anyway.

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I have other stuff to play too, but when it comes to rpg's, I do one at a time, and I'm sure many others do as well. At the time Growlanser was supposed to come out, it was pretty much coming out in a time when there were NO rpg's scheduled.

Now it's coming out in a time when people can go ahead and get Phantom Brave and Star Ocean 3, with Shin Megami Tensei 3 coming out soon, Wild Arms Code Alter F, that other rpg from Atlus, Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner, and Shadow Hearts 2. That's not even counting OTHER big name rpg's from other systems (Fable and KOTOR 2).

Basacially, WD is going to release their small niche game into a market where all the other choices look so much better. I'd gladly get Phantom Brave over Growlanser if I had to make the choice.

I remember back in the day, I was a pretty big fan of WD. Vic would always be in the Sega usenet group, and I ended up talking to him quite a bit. We usually had pretty decent conversations, and I thought he was a good guy.

I then got my job at GameFan, and when I told him that, he called me an idiot and started acting like a total asshole to me. I understand that he wasn't too happy with GameFan, but it really got me that he could suddenly change his opinion of me like that just because I was going to be working there.

Pretty good example of the kind of guy Vic is. I would never, ever want somebody who acts so childish and bases company decisions on his schoolyard squabbles running my company.

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Originally Posted by James

You do all realize that a company that wants to publish games that aren't sports or movie/tv based are the companies we want to keep around, right? You do also realize that a company being glacially slow isn't a reason to dislike them?

Any company that wants to do something different gets my support, and I don't care about their scheduling issues. I'm not running out of things to play while waiting for their games, after all.

James

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Where in my post did I say I disliked them? I was just answering the question on whether or not they'll slowly disappear. I think they are a great company, although I dislike the majority of their games (I'm not an RPG fan), I'm just being realistic and saying that there's no way that they can keep this up forever.

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Originally Posted by James

You do all realize that a company that wants to publish games that aren't sports or movie/tv based are the companies we want to keep around, right? You do also realize that a company being glacially slow isn't a reason to dislike them?

Any company that wants to do something different gets my support, and I don't care about their scheduling issues. I'm not running out of things to play while waiting for their games, after all.

James

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While I'd like to agree with you here, I just can't. The fact that WD feels the need to add things to the games they bring over (as many have mentioned) is an insult to the creators, I think. Atlus fills this niche much better these days, and they tend not to fuck up translations anymore either.

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Originally Posted by ssbomberman

you know more than a lot of us about the company since you have been in the biz for so long, but I for one, do enjoy the upbeat translation for games such as Lunar...I don't think I could play the game any other way...and I love the voice actors on most of the games...but that's just me...it seems a lot better than say Tales of Symphonia, where it is so stale and boring...

But of course I wish the games would come out faster...and what the hell ever happened to my second strat guide for Arc? I mean they just sort of let it disappear...

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Opinions are opinions and all...but are you smoking crack? I don't see how you can compare the two. The Tales game has voice actors. The Lunar games have people whose voices "sounded right." Big difference.

The second Arc guide was cancelled, but was supposed to be put on the site. That never happened, obviously. How that got delayed, I have no idea-it was finished. Who do they have to blame for that, besides themselves?

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Originally Posted by Roufuss

Basacially, WD is going to release their small niche game into a market where all the other choices look so much better. I'd gladly get Phantom Brave over Growlanser if I had to make the choice.

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You better or I'd have to kill you. :chunobi:
(for those who can't tell, I'm not being serious)

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Originally Posted by taloony

While I'd like to agree with you here, I just can't. The fact that WD feels the need to add things to the games they bring over (as many have mentioned) is an insult to the creators, I think. Atlus fills this niche much better these days, and they tend not to fuck up translations anymore either.



Opinions are opinions and all...but are you smoking crack? I don't see how you can compare the two. The Tales game has voice actors. The Lunar games have people whose voices "sounded right." Big difference.

The second Arc guide was cancelled, but was supposed to be put on the site. That never happened, obviously. How that got delayed, I have no idea-it was finished. Who do they have to blame for that, besides themselves?

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Yummm crack...he he...I dunno, I'm not a fan of U.S. anime and vg voice actors for games like Tales, Grandia, etc...(love the games though) they sound cheesy, give me Japanese dialogue maybe and it would sound cooler...I dunno...doesn't work for me...but the bits of dialogue in Lunar games worked okay for me...call me crazy, it's okay, I've accepted that my tastes are not the mainstream LOL...oh yeah, I did really enjoy the voices in Disgaea (esp Flonne)...

I'm not saying there aren't a good variety of reasons to dislike them, just that I'm willing to let them off the hook for the Growlanser delays. After this one, if they want to survive, then they've really got to get on the ball as fast as humanly possible.

I was there for Arc, I know what the delays were caused by and why it took so insanely long, and now Growlanser looks like disaster #2. I doubt any company can afford another issue like this one but I really do hope they survive, not out of some misguided loyalty to a company whose glory days were back in the Sega CD but just to see what they do next.

Keep in mind I like Hiroshi Yamauchi at his ranting best. It'll probably help explain a bit about why I also like WD. :)

James

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Originally Posted by Ammadeau

You better or I'd have to kill you. :chunobi:
(for those who can't tell, I'm not being serious)

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Heh. I would much rather have Growlanser, I'm afraid. :chick: I only thought of Disgaea as so-so. I haven't played La Pucelle yet. Though it sits tempting me, my other recent purchase ToS, is a very excellent game.

I have played G2 though, and watched a friend play it for a number of hours. It's a great game, I just wish it wasn't WD bringing it over.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

I remember back in the day, I was a pretty big fan of WD. Vic would always be in the Sega usenet group, and I ended up talking to him quite a bit. We usually had pretty decent conversations, and I thought he was a good guy.

I then got my job at GameFan, and when I told him that, he called me an idiot and started acting like a total asshole to me. I understand that he wasn't too happy with GameFan, but it really got me that he could suddenly change his opinion of me like that just because I was going to be working there.

Pretty good example of the kind of guy Vic is. I would never, ever want somebody who acts so childish and bases company decisions on his schoolyard squabbles running my company.

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Oh man, you are digging up some old drama now. If I remember correcetly, didn't Nick Rox basicly shit on Lunar EB in print in the mag? Vic did have good reason to be mad about that, considering most rpg fans who got a chance to play EB at release agree that it was one of the best 2d RPGs of that gaming period, making what Nick Rox said seem like done purely to drive sales away from the game.

Sucks that he took it out on you though. You'd think he'd tried to butter you up so maybe he'd get good revues on their new releases. You'd think he'd gotten over that eventually. Gamefan staff almost splooged all over the pages of the mag over Thunderforce and raystorm.

About why WD takes so long to get games out? I honestly think they have 3 guys doing it. The ENTIRE THING. Even sticking the games in boxes.

By the way, it has to be said... if you actually spend $90 for the Growlanser deluxe pack, please shoot yourself. If you buy that pack just to sit that watch and jewelry around and look at it, you are a moron. However, if you buy the pack to actually WEAR the watch, ring, or chain... you've got bigger problems.

shidoshi giving fashion advice in regards to people being nerds, how quaint. Maybe I should start giving writing advice.

:P

Actually, first, I have quite the sense of fashion, thank you.

Second, are you saying that you disagree with me on this? No matter who it is saying it, would you actually support the idea of wearing that stuff out into public?

Find me some pictures of it, then I'll say.

I know I enjoy hitting my sister with the Lunar punching doll. As long as WD gives me free toys, they can stay around forever.

With toys = $90
Without toys = $50

I'm getting the nice version anyway, and somehow I think I'll survive the scorn of Shidoshi. It hurts, wounds me to my core, but as anyone who's read the front page of TNL should know by now I'm a total whore for video gaming goodies.

James

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Originally Posted by James

With toys = $90
Without toys = $50

I'm getting the nice version anyway, and somehow I think I'll survive the scorn of Shidoshi. It hurts, wounds me to my core, but as anyone who's read the front page of TNL should know by now I'm a total whore for video gaming goodies.

James

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Yeah and those are some damn nice goodies!

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

Find me some pictures of it, then I'll say.

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Uhh... make me do work! *pout*

Here

I guess I can't totally talk, because I have a special edition box of Card Captor Sakura Snap for DC that comes with crap like a bowl, spoon, and little clock. Then again, I paid $5 for the box, so I think that sort of balances things out.

Well I can't support the idea of them disapering, I mean they only have 2 games in the works its not like they are taking away lots of games from other publishers or anything. And I do think Sony really screwed up their plans a lot, for no real reason. For all we know that could have other games in the works that we did not know about but ended up getting screwed by Sony again. I am glad that Goemon is back on board, shows hope the SCEA is backing off now in PS2s old age. I know that Goemon is not supposed to be all that stellar of a game, but I want the option to judge that myself with out having to mod or buy a J-PS2.

Plus there is a lot of stuff to get translated from Japan, might as well have as many companys interested in doing that as possible.

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Originally Posted by Clash_Master

Well I can't support the idea of them disapering, I mean they only have 2 games in the works its not like they are taking away lots of games from other publishers or anything. And I do think Sony really screwed up their plans a lot, for no real reason. For all we know that could have other games in the works that we did not know about but ended up getting screwed by Sony again. I am glad that Goemon is back on board, shows hope the SCEA is backing off now in PS2s old age. I know that Goemon is not supposed to be all that stellar of a game, but I want the option to judge that myself with out having to mod or buy a J-PS2.

Plus there is a lot of stuff to get translated from Japan, might as well have as many companys interested in doing that as possible.

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Nope, I don't buy the excuse that "wah wah, Sony won't let us release the game here's ANOTHER delay for you". I believe the delay about Sony wanting both games in one pack, but I don't believe concurrent delays, and I think it's just WD taking it's dear sweet time like it usually does. I don't think Sony would just randomly get in their business to try and bankrupt them, that's kind of ridiculous.

What is Vic's plan with this? It keeps on getting delayed, summer was the PERFECT time for this with the drought of games. Now he's going to release it in a season where there's not only tons of stellar rpg's coming out with good sized fanbases, but also completely HUGE hits like GTA: San Andreas and Halo 2.

Ol Vic's magnum opus is going to get lost in the woodwork, resulting in low sales in which he can only blame himself.

And about more companies translating games from Japan? People like Mastiff and Agetec do what Working Designs did, and they do it 3 times as fast and they don't fuck the translations up. I wonder how may president bush jokes we'll get in the Growlanser series... :rolleyes:

Like I said people, they have 3 people doing all the work, and a monkey. How fast do you think a monkey can recode japanese into english? hmm?

About the extra's, eh I don't care if people wear them. Let people have fun. But you can punch them in the face if they feel they need to snort and tell you about it more than 3 times.

1. WD is a tiny TINY fucking company. YOU try to do what they do, answer the phone, deal with pr, deal with advertising, deal with html for the site, deal with forums, deal with ranting fans asking where the game is and not to mention reprogramming and translating the game for the U.S. market and, oh yeah, deal with Sony.

2. Vic is an idiot. He stands in the way of everything his company does and wouldn't know good PR if it hit him in the face. He supports rags like GamePro and will blow his entire advertising budget on one issue instead of doing the SMART thing and reach his target audience through fan based web sites, 'zines, and smaller publications. Further, he seems to have little idea of what it takes to make a compnay more successful.

3. WD shouldn't ever post a release date. It's always wrong and always makes them look worse.

4. I guess I have a soft spot for WD somewhere, harkening back to the TG-16 days when they were one of the few third party companies that had the balls to back the system. Exile, etc...

5. I'll buy the premium pack. Fuck it. Call me a moron and an idiot and all that shit, but I'm a sucker for LE's and they are few and far between in the states.

If you see me wearing that shit, however, please shoot me.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru

1. WD is a tiny TINY fucking company. YOU try to do what they do, answer the phone, deal with pr, deal with advertising, deal with html for the site, deal with forums, deal with ranting fans asking where the game is and not to mention reprogramming and translating the game for the U.S. market and, oh yeah, deal with Sony.

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Come on. Hire someone's kid sister at $8 an hour to answer the phone. PR can hardly be a daily necessity. They advertise once every three years. They don't update their site. The forums aren't a priority. And the fans stop asking where your game is if you actually deliver it.

These games have what, 200 pages of text? My Japanese is totally mediocre, and I could plow through that in two dedicated weeks. That's roughly a pace of 2.5 pages an hour. Their real life pace is something more akin to 2.5 pages a week. The actual reprogramming involved should be minimal - have an art guy do up a new title screen and minimal background elements like signs, and a programmer to sub in new voice files and said images. Get some "actors" from the local community college drama workshop again. Hire a recording studio & engineer for a week. This isn't the dead sea scrolls - sure they have a limited staff, but that's all they require for the translation.

So yeah, I could probably do what they do.

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4. I guess I have a soft spot for WD somewhere, harkening back to the TG-16 days when they were one of the few third party companies that had the balls to back the system. Exile, etc...

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I'd totally be behind them if they went back to translating PC Engine games. I think this company has been cursed ever since they denied the Dreamcast, like the Red Sox and Babe Ruth.

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

Like I said people, they have 3 people doing all the work, and a monkey. How fast do you think a monkey can recode japanese into english? hmm?

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It has been theorized that a monkey can write a Shakespeare play by randoming pushing buttons on a typewriter faster than WD translating a game.

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Originally Posted by kingoffighters

It has been theorized that a monkey can write a Shakespeare play by randoming pushing buttons on a typewriter faster than WD translating a game.

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Yeah, but that is a room full of monkies. I think WD just has one.

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Originally Posted by taloony

Heh. I would much rather have Growlanser, I'm afraid. :chick: I only though of Disgaea as so-so. I haven't played La Pucelle yet. Though it sits tempting me, my other recent purchase ToS, is a very excellent game.

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I honestly didn't like Disgaea all that much. I played it a lot, but it hit me when I had nothing much else to play. I completed the story, but never got any of the extra bosses, never made uber weapons, etc. It was all too tedious.

Everything (except the story honestly) is much better in Phantom Brave. And PB is going to have a huge, kickass guide to boot. :D

Having lived in Redding for six months, all I can say about WD being small time is that it's most likely a product of its environment. It's sad but they probably always will be that way no matter what happens. On the other hand, if they can bring me a game I want to play once every other year then so what? Let them sabotage themselves at every turn, so long as the game I get is one I'll enjoy playing.

As stated in my original post back at the beginning, I don't care about the delays. If WD had managed to release Growlanser in spring then it would have done much better than September, but that's not really my problem. My problem is, after buying it, finding the time to enjoy it. I figure between Growlanser and Burnout 3 I'm set until San Andreas.

In a nutshell- their being late would bother me if I had nothing else to play. At no point in the last several years has that happened so really I don't care. It's not my problem if WD only sells half of what it could have sold due to the timing of the release, so I'm just going to enjoy what I get when I get it.

James

You guys must really want Growlancer and Goemon, if not why are you getting so worked up? And how many games as Mastiff brought over? If its like 2 what makes you think they will be around as long as Working Designs? I am actually pretty suprised that a company this small, who released this few games, and takes such a long time to release them is still around. The people who are working on them must have other jobs or something, that might have to do with why its taking so long, the people can't focus all of their time on the game.

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Originally Posted by Clash_Master

You guys must really want Growlancer and Goemon, if not why are you getting so worked up? And how many games as Mastiff brought over? If its like 2 what makes you think they will be around as long as Working Designs? I am actually pretty suprised that a company this small, who released this few games, and takes such a long time to release them is still around. The people who are working on them must have other jobs or something, that might have to do with why its taking so long, the people can't focus all of their time on the game.

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I don't care about length though, nor do several others here. It's the "improvements" to the games they bring over that rub me the wrong way. Stuff like the save system for the PS1 Lunars were pretty useful. Things like fart jokes where their shouldn't be anything like that are not. They can shove that "quirky" humor right up their asses.

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Originally Posted by taloony

I don't care about length though, nor do several others here. It's the "improvements" to the games they bring over that rub me the wrong way. Stuff like the save system for the PS1 Lunars were pretty useful. Things like fart jokes where their shouldn't be anything like that are not. They can shove that "quirky" humor right up their asses.

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Give me a break. Lunar isn't War & Peace here, it's a shitty by-the-numbers RPG with fanservice anime that people for some reason or another loved on the Sega CD. Everything in Lunar, actually, suggests that type of humor fits in.

Some bit of it is fine in a game like this. Compared to the dry-as-dirt translations of so many 16-bit RPGs, I welcome it.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Give me a break. Lunar isn't War & Peace here, it's a shitty by-the-numbers RPG with fanservice anime that people for some reason or another loved on the Sega CD. Everything in Lunar, actually, suggests that type of humor fits in.

Some bit of it is fine in a game like this. Compared to the dry-as-dirt translations of so many 16-bit RPGs, I welcome it.

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That it is (a shitty by-the-numbers RPG), but they sure didn't write it themselves. I'm not a big fan of any company that takes that many liberties with translations, and they're more blatant about doing so than most.

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Originally Posted by taloony

That it is (a shitty by-the-numbers RPG), but they sure didn't write it themselves. I'm not a big fan of any company that takes that many liberties with translations, and they're more blatant about doing so than most.

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A lot is lost when you translate from one language to another, especially Japanese to English... the cultures are so different, the histories, whatever. I used to talk to my friend who lived in China for 20 years, and she always had problems translating a thought she had in her head in Chinese. I just read an article a few days ago that talked about how the word "frontier" is totally different to Americans than it is to anyone else in the world. So it would be hard to translate that word, with all of its cultural significance and meaning, to Japanese. And that's just one example. Even a crappy RPG like Lunar probably has hundreds of these sort of loaded phrases/words.

Perhaps quirky jokes in Japan just dont have the same punch as they would in English, so the translators can choose to, (A) leave it alone, and the humor that was present in the original is lost, or (B) write new jokes. Working Designs obviously chose (B), and I think I remember reading an interview with Vic where he said as much.

I see your point diffx and I'm inclined to agree, but sometimes, WD goes overboard. And more often than not their jokes are the kind of crap that stopped being funny when I got out of middle school. Jokes about lonely guys in cabins jerking off just don't do it for me.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Perhaps quirky jokes in Japan just dont have the same punch as they would in English, so the translators can choose to, (A) leave it alone, and the humor that was present in the original is lost, or (B) write new jokes. Working Designs obviously chose (B), and I think I remember reading an interview with Vic where he said as much.

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The problem with this, and it's what SK also noted, is that Working Designs just ISNT FUNNY. AT ALL.

So the humor is lost anyways.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Give me a break. Lunar isn't War & Peace here, it's a shitty by-the-numbers RPG with fanservice anime that people for some reason or another loved on the Sega CD. Everything in Lunar, actually, suggests that type of humor fits in.

Some bit of it is fine in a game like this. Compared to the dry-as-dirt translations of so many 16-bit RPGs, I welcome it.

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You make the baby jesus cry :(

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Originally Posted by taloony

I don't care about length though, nor do several others here. It's the "improvements" to the games they bring over that rub me the wrong way. Stuff like the save system for the PS1 Lunars were pretty useful. Things like fart jokes where their shouldn't be anything like that are not. They can shove that "quirky" humor right up their asses.

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I take it you hate Robotech, right?

JefmcC- I heard the sound of the nail being hammered when I read that post. Just look at companies like xS and Mastiff blowing past them- it's nothing like their TG16 era.

Working Designs should probably start getting ahold of some titles like XII Stag etc. that currently remain in Japan. If other companies can sell these for $15, so can WD. Shooters don't really need a lot of language translation.

As for WD's tampering with some games- RayStorm is not really THAT easy. I don't think the difficulty needed adjusting. (i.e. if you set any stage's difficulty to something below level 4, the game will go to Training Mode with a 4 stage limit. :bs: ). The score also doesn't reset if you credit feed, although this must clearly has something to do with the $10,000 contest that WD ran for it.

Heh, well, if Working Designs isn't funny, that's a different matter entirely. I was just talking about their motivation behind trying to put teh funny in. ^_^

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

I take it you hate Robotech, right?

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I've never watched it, ever.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Perhaps quirky jokes in Japan just dont have the same punch as they would in English, so the translators can choose to, (A) leave it alone, and the humor that was present in the original is lost, or (B) write new jokes. Working Designs obviously chose (B), and I think I remember reading an interview with Vic where he said as much.

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I wouldn't have a problem if it was just that. Vic states, without shame, that when they bring over their games, they take the original Japanese script, throw it away, and rewrite everything themselves. That's the problem I have with them. If Vic wants to pretend like he's a video game story writer, let him make his own game.

Persoanly I would not put xS out there in the "blowing past" Working Designs. Considering they took Castle of Shikigami, threw out every single bit of story line and cutscenes as well as changing the name to "Mobile Light Force 2" (which one would assume was the sequal to MLF1, which is actually Gun Bird), and make the cover look like an 80's all female space age cop action flick. To me at least thats a lot worse than putting in a few fart jokes.

shidoshi, your avatar is a damn nightmare. Your old one was fruity but at least it was tolerable.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

If Vic wants to pretend like he's a video game story writer, let him make his own game.

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I didnt realize the extent to which Working Designs changes the script. I thought they took a rough draft, saw which parts were culturally significant, beefed them up, maybe fixed some plot holes, shit like that. But throwing away the entire plot and dialogue and rewriting everything is ridiculous.

I also didnt even know Working Designs had such bad humor... seeing as I dont play the games.

I was just speaking in general regarding translations. It's meaningless to compare a translation to an original, especially if you dont know the original language.

DiffX- Your original impression is right. The only stuff that gets totally redone is the random townspeople, and minor characters can get an infusion of personality they otherwise wouldn't have had. I'm not saying people have to like how WD does it (I actually find a lot of their stuff very well done, obviously) but it's nothing like as extreme as Shidoshi says.

Really, if you can perk up the dialogue of somebody who'd otherwise be saying "Welcome to the town of Floopydoo" (or wherever) then why not? The story doesn't get changed at all though, barring any plot holes that can't be ignored.

James

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Give me a break. Lunar isn't War & Peace here, it's a shitty by-the-numbers RPG with fanservice anime that people for some reason or another loved on the Sega CD. Everything in Lunar, actually, suggests that type of humor fits in.

Some bit of it is fine in a game like this. Compared to the dry-as-dirt translations of so many 16-bit RPGs, I welcome it.

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I really enjoyed the humor in both the Lunar games on Playstation. They really made the characters have personality and I cared about what happened to them. God forbid should a RPG have humor in it. :rolleyes:

I'll gladly accept the occasional stupid Clinton joke from a random townsperson if the main characters actually have personalities, which the Lunar characters did.

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Originally Posted by animegirl20

I really enjoyed the humor in both the Lunar games on Playstation. They really made the characters have personality and I cared about what happened to them. God forbid should a RPG have humor in it. :rolleyes:

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I was talking about Tales of Symphonia to a friend the other day. They made a refrence to Titanic, but it wasnt so blatant. Nor did it ruin the suspension of disbelief.

Making a pop culture refrence doesnt enhance a characters personality when the universe they are set in has nothing to do with corn flakes or what-have-you. Symphonia is one of the rare games that has humor and is actually funny.

Lunar had some funny moments, and when they were related to the story, those funny moments did help flesh out the characters and give them personalities. But when its lame, its lame. When it has nothing to do with anything and farts in the face of the universe the game is set it, then its worthless. WD does this alot IMO.

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Originally Posted by animegirl20

I really enjoyed the humor in both the Lunar games on Playstation. They really made the characters have personality and I cared about what happened to them. God forbid should a RPG have humor in it. :rolleyes:

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Last RPG I played, Atelier Iris, had plenty of humor in it... and of course it'll probably never come out in the US.

Disgaea had humor and I think it's a good example of what Diffx is talking about since Altus USA's version isn't a direct translation. 'Dood' wasn't in the original (among other things), but it's basically true to the humor of the original that doesn't translate well into english. So while they didn't completely rewrite things, they did change up things a bit to make the translation less literal, but closer to the feel of the Japanese version.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

shidoshi, your avatar is a damn nightmare. Your old one was fruity but at least it was tolerable.

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LOL It's a great avatar!

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Originally Posted by James

DiffX- Your original impression is right. The only stuff that gets totally redone is the random townspeople, and minor characters can get an infusion of personality they otherwise wouldn't have had. I'm not saying people have to like how WD does it (I actually find a lot of their stuff very well done, obviously) but it's nothing like as extreme as Shidoshi says.

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Uh, no. Vic Ireland has stated in the past that they rewrite scripts. Meaning they alter the story to what they feel is good, not just spicing up what NPCs say. So in the end you're not getting the same story. You're getting a heavily WD influenced pile of steaming shit full of jokes about just that, steaming shit. Literally.

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Originally Posted by animegirl20

I really enjoyed the humor in both the Lunar games on Playstation. They really made the characters have personality and I cared about what happened to them. God forbid should a RPG have humor in it.

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No one is saying RPGs should not have humor in them. They should. That's the problem. WD doesn't inject humor into the titles they publish. Guys in cabins jerking off is not funny. Ya momma jokes are not funny. Turning a village into a shantytown full of inbred rednecks that make no sense is not funny. If they used intelligent and witty humor it'd be one thing, but potty humor has not been funny since I was 12.

I'm just glad that WD didn't get it's hands on something like La Pucelle, which would have turned into one big "sex with underage girls" joke.

Let's be thankful Vic runs such a shitty company that they can only run one series into the ground every 5 years or so.

Survival Kid- I'm bored with this so I'll just issue a flat "you're wrong" and call it good. Not 100% wrong, WD does take liberties with the writing as they see fit, but still pretty wrong. Bitter too.

James

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Originally Posted by James

Survival Kid- I'm bored with this so I'll just issue a flat "you're wrong" and call it good. Not 100% wrong, WD does take liberties with the writing as they see fit, but still pretty wrong. Bitter too.

James

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Yeah, and I say you're wrong, so what's the point?

I worked for the company for a while and you didn't?

Oh, and you're ugly and smell funny, too. :)

James

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Originally Posted by James

Survival Kid- I'm bored with this so I'll just issue a flat "you're wrong" and call it good. Not 100% wrong, WD does take liberties with the writing as they see fit, but still pretty wrong. Bitter too.

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In the "making of" video that came with Lunar PSX, Vic says that they throw away the Japanese script and write their own. I mean, he says that pretty clearly. One example he brought up was that farting fairy or whatever it was from Vay, if I'm not mistaken.

If Working Designs does not actually do that, then he is an idiot for making it sound like they do.

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

Oh man, you are digging up some old drama now. If I remember correcetly, didn't Nick Rox basicly shit on Lunar EB in print in the mag?

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His beef was with the translation. He wasn't amused by WD's attempts at humor. This caused Victor Ireland to act like a bitchy attention whore on Usenet for quite a while. I was writing for a video game magazine when all of this went down so I obviously empathized with Nick Rox. He got a lot of flak for doing his job as a video game critic.