Neo Contra

http://www.konamityo.com/neocontra/images/bunner03.jpg

Yeah, I want to start off the official Neo Contra thread by stating that KCE Tokyo has opened their official Neo Contra website. Just click on the banner on top of this post.

Is anyone else looking forward to this game? I know some people are resenting the fact that Contra is going 3D again, especially after the resentment towards Appaloosa's own Contra games (I've never played them to be honest, so I don't know how bad they really were), but unlike those games, this is actually being developed in-house by KCE Tokyo and from what I've heard from people who've actually played the game, it seems pretty good too.

Any thoughts?

I liked what I played at E3 alot. It's no Legacy of War thats for sure(Thank god).It really looks alot like Shatter Soldier graphically and the sleeker future areas have that MGS2 look. I liked the weapon system of choosing which set three you want to be stuck with. Having only the same 3 weapons capable of handling every situation made SS feel more constrictive than it was. I did think Neo was really easy after finishing the first 2 levels. Not even half as difficult as SS. With what looked like 7 levels again, I hope they go nuts by lvl 4.

I definately would have preferred another traditional Contra but so far I'm happy with what they have to offer, especially considering how opposed I was to it before playing it.

I seriously don't see how hard it is to design more levels in these type of games. Something like 12 should be the minimum, and that's if they're large, long levels.

I hope it's good. I love Contra III and Contra HC(my all time favorite shooter) but I didn't really care for SS. It seemed to be done the right way,but it's just missing that "thing" that made the old 2D Contra games as great as they were. I think it was too pattern based and not really reflex based at all, like the old ones were.

I liked HC and this one looks good.

However, Robot chick >>>> Pantsless samurai w/one eye.

and one other thing.......helicopter running = teh shiznit.

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Originally Posted by Nigel

I hope it's good. I love Contra III and Contra HC(my all time favorite shooter) but I didn't really care for SS. It seemed to be done the right way,but it's just missing that "thing" that made the old 2D Contra games as great as they were. I think it was too pattern based and not really reflex based at all, like the old ones were.

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I loved Shattered Soldier, but I think the problem with it was that , aside from the fact that it was too boss-oriented, is that it was too much of a throwback to the older games. A majority of the enemies and situations were based on the older Contra games (particularly Alien Wars and Hard Corps), although I did like the Galuga stage they included (for those who don't know, the Galuga archipelago was the setting of the original Contra).

Anyway, I heard Neo Contra will return to the series' roots and have more "Run 'n Gun" gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Johnny Undaunted

Anyway, I heard Neo Contra will return to the series' roots and have more "Run 'n Gun" gameplay.

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That's all I need to hear to be excited. I am in the same boat as Nigel. Shattered Soldier was missing something, and I think he hit the nail on the head by saying that it was 95% memorization and 5% reflexes. That should be minimum 50/50, and I would like it to be 80% reflexes.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

That's all I need to hear to be excited. I am in the same boat as Nigel. Shattered Soldier was missing something, and I think he hit the nail on the head by saying that it was 95% memorization and 5% reflexes. That should be minimum 50/50, and I would like it to be 80% reflexes.

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I agree with that and the assessment that there were too many "Remember him?" bosses. Not having the slide-tackle really hurt SS, since most of the memorization could have been avoided with a timely slide out of danger. I really don't think I would have bothered getting the S-rank if the game wasn't named contra...hope this one's better.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

That's all I need to hear to be excited. I am in the same boat as Nigel. Shattered Soldier was missing something, and I think he hit the nail on the head by saying that it was 95% memorization and 5% reflexes. That should be minimum 50/50, and I would like it to be 80% reflexes.

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I agree! The more reflex the better. I can't tell you how many times the quick reflexes were what saved my ass in the old ones(though I'm sure you all know). I love patterns with bosses, but the levels themselves seemed to suffer from the pattern stigma too. Let's just hope Neo is better.

Great trailer on that website. Looking forward to this.

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Originally Posted by Gymkata

I liked HC and this one looks good.

However, Robot chick >>>> Pantsless samurai w/one eye.

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After seeing some vids of the Samurai guy, I think he can hang with good old Bill and the crew.

I don't think it was so much that the memorization was SS's failing, but that it was shallow memorization.

I can understand that they want at least a couple Contras to be more methodical and less reflex-oriented. But there is so little depth, so little layering, to so many of the situations. The whole idea of the hit-rate almost felt untapped other than for a few bosses. So many of the strategies were so easy to figure out, and then there was never any reason to improve.

Ultimately, I do think SS was a pretty solid action game, and a worthy installment in the series. It's just that once you finish it, you're pretty much finished with it.

Neo Contra's top down view seems like it would be less natural for SS's type of play, and better just for more reflex-based run 'n gunning, where you get to shoot more 'turkeys'. But based on some of the impressions I've read, it seemed too easy (and easier than SS sounds hard to believe, once you memorize SS). I hope it won't just be an SS repeat from a top-down view, when they could do something really different.

And I wouldn't worry much about it being 3D this time. I don't think you can even jump. Essentially, it probably mirrors the top-down sections of Super C more!

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Originally Posted by WarpZone

Neo Contra's top down view seems like it would be less natural for SS's type of play, and better just for more reflex-based run 'n gunning, where you get to shoot more 'turkeys'. But based on some of the impressions I've read, it seemed too easy (and easier than SS sounds hard to believe, once you memorize SS). I hope it won't just be an SS repeat from a top-down view, when they could do something really different.

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It's almost complete run and gun based on the first two levels. It's not really like SS in any way outside of visuals and a couple throwbacks to levels from SS(The intro to lvl 2 in SS for instance). The only memoirization is the standard boss patterns but no more than your average action game.

The reason Neo Contra is called easy is because, it was. Once you've played a level once you already knew pretty much every pitfall and miniboss trick. The enemies don't put up that much of a challenge either. They have plenty of time to tweak the difficulty, assuming setting the game to hard doesn't fix most of that.

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Originally Posted by FuryFox

I seriously don't see how hard it is to design more levels in these type of games. Something like 12 should be the minimum, and that's if they're large, long levels.

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Because playing arcade styled games for 2 hours straight is tedius and annoying, and since they're difficult to complete as-is and almost wholly based on replay, completely unneccessary.

No game like this should be more than an hour long.

hmmm that trailer won me over. That upside down boss part looked cool. I'll buy this.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

No game like this should be more than an hour long.

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Yes...in that sense, Contra SS's length I think was just about perfect (timed it, and it came to almost exactly one hour, counting cut-scenes and ending). And generally it seems ~ half hour is better for some of the more intense, condensed shooters.

I think I had read in any interview that Neo Contra was supposed to be longer. I have a hard time imagining how that would work unless they just meant counting cut-scenes, though.

There's a demo of the game in the latest issue of OPM. So far, it's essentially an overhead version of Shattered Soldier, which is either, a good thing or a bad thing. The level featured in the demo was one in which the player rides some dinosaur-like creatures over a highway in an auto-scrolling stage. The stage seems seems to be as pattern-oriented as Shattered Soldier, which worries me abit (I heard the more conventional stages don't have this problem). I managed to get an S-rank with 98% (I only lost one life).

It takes quite awhile to get used to the controls, especially the lock-on weapons and evade/roll button, but otherwise it plays exactly like Shattered Soldier. There are three configurations for the player to choose from. One of them (Type C) contains the Spread Shot (which has been watered down since it's absence in Shattered, you caon fire one shot at a time) and the "Classic Fire Ball" from the original Contra (which has improved tremendously in contrast to the Spread Shot, it has a bigger fireshot).

Neo Contra feels like it was meant to be the missing half of Shattered Soldier so far and the demo left a lot to be desired. I'm hoping the finished game will have the classing run 'n gun style of the original games, which was sorely lacking in the demo.

BTW, Konami of America has just opened their official Neo Contra flash site. So far, it's just a translated version of the Japanese site with a few additional contents. But it's so accurately translated to the point of using the original Japanese titles and systems for the games (which I found to be hilarious). Anyway, check out the "diary" section for some insights about the development of the earlier games.
http://www.konami.com/neocontra/offi...ash/index.html

Well, this is sad news if it's like SS. SS robed Contra of all the twitch gaming that made this franchise legendary. I bought the new isue of OPM just for this and MGS3, but the damn disk doesn't work. Looks like that might be for the better. Damn, I was really hoping for a return to form.

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Originally Posted by FuryFox

I seriously don't see how hard it is to design more levels in these type of games. Something like 12 should be the minimum, and that's if they're large, long levels.

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There's an opinion among many (myself included) that these games shouldn't be too long to play in a comfortable sitting. Draggy shooters and run and guns get on my nerves after a while.

I think breaking the game into "episodes" might be a good way to extend value and play time without making the game drag. I'd like to see that tried some time.

EDIT: Lol, I already replied to this exact quote, didn't I :sweat:

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Originally Posted by FuryFox

I seriously don't see how hard it is to design more levels in these type of games. Something like 12 should be the minimum, and that's if they're large, long levels.

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If the 12 levels are alternate paths through the game (as in Hard Corps) so you don't have to play them all in one sitting, it'd be fine. Otherwise, no.

Pattern oriented levels are fine by me (I love shooters, after all), it's just that SS was far too much about one-on-one miniboss fights. I want a high body count, that's all.

This game should be thirty minutes long.

Since I've got a raincheck and enough 10 dollar gift cards at Target to get this game for free, I might as well pick it up.

Hearing like it's SS is good news to me actually, as I really liked SS, and it ensures that it's no Legacy of War =/

But I mean, isn't this made by the same team that also did SS? I honestly always expected the game to play the same, not sure why anyone else would expect differently.

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Originally Posted by Glass Joe

Well, this is sad news if it's like SS. SS robed Contra of all the twitch gaming that made this franchise legendary. I bought the new isue of OPM just for this and MGS3, but the damn disk doesn't work. Looks like that might be for the better. Damn, I was really hoping for a return to form.

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Samn here. I tried to give Neo Contra's demo a try last night, but it just froze up both times I tried :( Sucks !

The demo sucked, seriously.

The level was 3 minutes long, it was incredibly easy, and I hope it was just part of a much bigger level.

So far, I'm not impressed at all, which saddens me greatly.

Apparently, one of the mags (I forgot the name reviewed it), said it was really short, not as hard as SS, but that it did have unlockable weapons / characters.

The demo was terrible, I'm not even considering ever buying this game.

Do another like Shattered Soldier or stfu.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

The demo was terrible, I'm not even considering ever buying this game.

Do another like Shattered Soldier or stfu.

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Seriously.

I expected the demo to kick my ass, and I'd be like "wow, I doubted them, but Contra overhead kicks ass, this game will be AWESOME".

Instead I was like "wow, these graphics are really bland, this shit is boring, why did I get a 96% or so my very first time through in 3 minutes?"

Seriously, Alien Hominid on the same day as this makes Neo Contra look very retarded and not up to par. The only thing it's got going for it is unlockables, but when the hell did Contra become all about that?

The demo wasn't bad per se, it was just way too pattern-based like Shattered Soldier. I'm hoping the demo was just a bad representation of the game. It takes awhile to learn how to dodge/evade, but other than that, it was alright. Not horrible as some of you are making it out to be.

Anyway, the game is scheluded to come out tomorrow, with a kickass Jim Lee cover art (which can downloaded as a wallpaper from the official site).
http://www.ebgames.com/ebx_assets/pr...ges/243896.jpg

Anyone picking this up?

Jim Lee art is always good.

I'm gonna wait to see how the reviews come in for it though. If it's like 7/10 or something it'll join my list of 'upcoming games I'll wait for to hit 20 bucks'.

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Originally Posted by Johnny Undaunted

The demo wasn't bad per se, it was just way too pattern-based like Shattered Soldier. I'm hoping the demo was just a bad representation of the game. It takes awhile to learn how to dodge/evade, but other than that, it was alright. Not horrible as some of you are making it out to be.

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No, the demo is bad, real bad.

It's easy, you don't HAVE to dodge / evade at all (hell, I didn't, and I got a 96% rating), and it was very very easy. Not to mention the graphics are extremely bland.

The top down style is garbage, and if the reviews I've heard are right then the game is easier, shorter, and not as tight.

Even if the demo is a bad misinterpretation of the game, Alien Hominid shits all over this in every way possible, and I'd rather spend money on a superior product. I'm one of the biggest run n gun whores around, but this demo turned off whatever hope I may had for the game.

Unless the reviews are nothing short of outstanding will I give this another look, and keep wishing that Konami made a true sequel to Contra.

I figured out the word for this game. It just feels so... generic.

The other problem I had with the demo is you were on rails the entire time. What bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Roufuss

The top down style is garbage

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That's all you had to say.

The demo on OPSM was totally different than what we got to play at E3, which is strange seeing as the E3 demo was much better. The OPSM demo doesn't suck entirely but it does feel a bit empty and bland after a few play-throughs. Contra shouldn't feel like that.

James

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Originally Posted by James

The demo on OPSM was totally different than what we got to play at E3, which is strange seeing as the E3 demo was much better. The OPSM demo doesn't suck entirely but it does feel a bit empty and bland after a few play-throughs. Contra shouldn't feel like that.

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Man I agree.

I played through it once, it seemed ok, but I played through it again and was just bored.

It just dosen't feel like Contra at all. Slap another name on it, call it a different game, maybe I'd be interested, but this just dosen't feel like Contra at all.

And having the game demo be 3 minutes long and on rails the entire time, on what seems like the easiest difficulty, is lame.

Guys its NEO Contra, which means New Contra. Which means they decided to avoid what any fan of contra would want, which would be a normal contra game.

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Originally Posted by Clash_Master

Guys its NEO Contra, which means New Contra. Which means they decided to avoid what any fan of contra would want, which would be a normal contra game.

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:lol:

meh' i'll skip this one. I don't think we'll ever see a decent contra game...ever!

I don't have much interest in actually playing the game, however, does anyone know if Akira Yamaoka will be involved with the music in this one? I'd like to get a copy of the soundtrack if he is. If not, pass.

But the cover art is so groovy! :( Damnit I wanted this game to be good in the WORST way. How could they have messed it up so much since e3?

I played the demo.

...I liked it. Sure, I'll probably be turning the difficulty up after a while, but it felt good as it was.
Never played the E3 demo you speak of.
...that's probably 'cause I've never been to E3.

What level's in the demo? On tracks ... is it the dinosaur-riding one? That is kinda blah.

The game is good, IMO. Far too easy, but good. Can't really go into specifics until next week, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Satsuki

I don't have much interest in actually playing the game, however, does anyone know if Akira Yamaoka will be involved with the music in this one? I'd like to get a copy of the soundtrack if he is. If not, pass.

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Whoever did the soundtrack, the demo track is fucking garbage.

Some kind of shitty techno thing in the first half of the level, blah.

IGN rated it... gave it a 7.0.

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/558/558103p1.html?fromint=1

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Neo really doesn't come off as Contra at all, save for the uniquely clichéd art style, gibberish storyline, and the actions of Bill and Jaguar, whom are lovingly portrayed in a variety of cutscenes.

In making Contra more unlike Contra than any title before it, Konami has made the series into a next generation One or, more accurately, Loaded. It's really too bad that all the strafe modifying and rolling creates an experience that can be unintuitive and frustrating.

Most of game time is spent flailing about, twitching to extreme degrees, and repeatedly re-snapping the strafe lock-on mechanism into place. That's just perfect, and it's really not Contra.

First, a second player can not join a singleplayer game that's already in progress. If you're playing and want to switch it up, you're actually going to have to reset the system, because there isn't even a quit option!

(the first try will take about 45 minutes to an hour, promise). No joke. Ed and I teamed up and beat Neo Contra in 27 minutes. It's that easy. If you're looking for Shattered Soldier to the next level, you will be extremely disappointed.

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Those are the highlights. Why the fuck did they give it a 7.0? The whole article is nothing but slamming the game, and now I'm DEFINATELY going to take a pass. Easy difficulty, plus a short game, dosen't equal 40 dollars in my book, and I loved Shattered Soldier to death. This is so sad :(

:rolleyes: Overreacting much?

I'd wait till a few more reviews appear, or at least until Johnny Undaunted gets it.

Apparently, Gamespot feels the same way, and gives the game a 6.8.

They had the same complaints as IGN did, that the game was too easy. They added the fact that it seems enemies are too weak though, and die alot easier then they should.

They also mention how the controls seem off, which is what IGN griped about as well. Though this in particular is very disappointing

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Neo Contra's soundtrack consists almost entirely of techno beats that help establish the fast-paced theme of the game but seem a little too upbeat and just aren't very interesting

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Yuck. I really liked the hard rocking guitar riffs used in other games, and I hated the demo music.

Gamespot ultimately calls the game a rental, but at times the review reads more like a manual than an actual review. Hopefully tommorrow EB will let me switch my preorder on this to pay off the rest of Alien Hominid =/

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/n.../review-2.html

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Originally Posted by Roufuss

AHopefully tommorrow EB will let me switch my preorder on this to pay off the rest of Alien Hominid =/

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Of course they will, it's YOUR money.

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Originally Posted by skelly

I'd wait till a few more reviews appear, or at least until Johnny Undaunted gets it.

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Might get it during the weekend, so keep your eyes peeled.

Anyway, I don't get the reasoning behind bitching about Neo Contra's overhead perspective. It's not like it's even the first Contra game to feature overhead stages (see Super C and Contra III). So what if Neo is 100% overhead? It's not like the premise of the game was altered significantly.

BTW, there's a mistake in IGN's review. The Strafe Option is nothing new to Contra. It's already been introduced in Shattered Soldier and Alien Wars EX. Make what you will.

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Originally Posted by Johnny Undaunted

Anyway, I don't get the reasoning behind bitching about Neo Contra's overhead perspective. It's not like it's even the first Contra game to feature overhead stages (see Super C and Contra III). So what if Neo is 100% overhead? It's not like the premise of the game was altered significantly.

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I think the reasoning is that the overhead levels in the old Contras ranged from outright suck at worst to not as good as the normal fucking levels at best.

To base an entire game on them is pretty fucking stupid.

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Originally Posted by Johnny Undaunted

Might get it during the weekend, so keep your eyes peeled.

Anyway, I don't get the reasoning behind bitching about Neo Contra's overhead perspective. It's not like it's even the first Contra game to feature overhead stages (see Super C and Contra III). So what if Neo is 100% overhead? It's not like the premise of the game was altered significantly.

BTW, there's a mistake in IGN's review. The Strafe Option is nothing new to Contra. It's already been introduced in Shattered Soldier and Alien Wars EX. Make what you will.

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Only one review I've read out of three, the IGN review has mentioned the overhead levels as being shitty.

Every review has agreed that the game isn't challenging, the only interresting part is the unlockables, it's very short even by Contra standards, and it's a rental at best.

I thought the overhead view point was shitty, but I thought the game would still be awesome that I had the whole thing preordered in full, without ever touching a demo. I thought the awesomeness of Contra would still shine even with a different perspective.

Metal Slug 3, Shattered Soldier, games like that are worth the cover charge, because it takes alot of skill to ace all the levels, alot like a shmup. And these are game reviewers saying it's easy, and they are usually the FIRST PEOPLE to whine about difficulty. Easy for them is incredibly easy for someone like me, who's played every contra and a large number of run n gun's to death.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

I think the reasoning is that the overhead levels in the old Contras ranged from outright suck at worst to not as good as the normal fucking levels at best.

To base an entire game on them is pretty fucking stupid.

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If we're talking about the Contra III stages, I would be inclined to agree with you, although they weren't that bad, so much as they were gimmicky (l@@k, Mode 7 graphics).

On the other hand, the overhead stages in Super Contra weren't that bad, as they played like the regular stages, except for the Helio Bomb in the Arcade version (which was quite a relief considering you're always surrounded by enemies).

Anyway, the overhead stages in both games had plenty of potential and would've been alot better if more work were put into them.

the thing is, you dont build a game for mass consumption on the possiblity of a stage design having "potential". that's the problem.

Got to play NeoContra on a demo unit today, so a clarification-

The E3 demo was all of level 1. The OPSM demo is part of level 2. Level 1 is more fun than level 2, but both are pretty easy.

James

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Originally Posted by Johnny Undaunted

On the other hand, the overhead stages in Super Contra weren't that bad

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That was my point. Why look at a great game and then base a new game off a couple of levels that "weren't that bad"? Does that make sense to anyone?

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Originally Posted by Mzo

That was my point. Why look at a great game and then base a new game off a couple of levels that "weren't that bad"? Does that make sense to anyone?

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Apparently to Konami.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

I think the reasoning is that the overhead levels in the old Contras ranged from outright suck at worst to not as good as the normal fucking levels at best.

To base an entire game on them is pretty fucking stupid.

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I didn't mind the overheads in Super Contra. This may not exactly be a typical game of the series. Yet if it turns out to have Mercs style play with Contra characters, I can go for that- even if I would've preferred a mix of both engines ala SC. Time for a little benefit of the doubt.

We just might see another sidescroll Contra sooner or later.

One thing Neo Contra surely needs are some harder difficulty settings. Normal- is that all? I've blown through it already with an A rank. The 4th weapon array is a bit overpowered. Damage done by the G. Bazooka and Heaven's Laser is a bit excessive. Nakazato apparently tried a bit too hard to make this "more accessible".

Stage 5's design has a nice icky alien look to it, but it's bland compared to stages 4 and 1. Here's where you run into a little nasty slowdown in a few spots.

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Originally Posted by gameoverDude

I didn't mind the overheads in Super Contra.

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Another rousing endorsement for this game type.

I guess the demand sure was there, HUH KONAMI?? HUH??

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Another rousing endorsement for this game type.

I guess the demand sure was there, HUH KONAMI?? HUH??

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The Super Contra route would have been better for sure- going with sidescroll as the main draw but with maybe a couple overhead stages in addition. Since they said it was Contra, I figured I'd still give it a chance. There's true Contra, there's crap, and there's Neo Contra. NC is no Legacy of War, but I think I'll be dusting off Shattered Soldier for a real Contra fix and probably casting this one aside.

And here's my 2 cents on Neo Contra overall.

Nice review of what sounds like a lousy game. Though I'm sure it turned out better than TMNT 2 that they also just recently released.

Lousy? It's fun.

Just not $40 fun.

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Originally Posted by skelly

Lousy? It's fun.

Just not $40 fun.

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Gradius V is one I'd say is $40 fun- thank goodness Konami put it at $30 however. NC should've been a $30 game.

I dug Shattered Soldier out again, and that one eclipses NC. Graphics are actually better in SS, I think- with maybe the possible exception of NC's final boss battle, where it does get up to the same level as SS.

That BGM for the boss of SS's Train stage sounds quite Battle Garegga influenced- a good thing IMO.

I picked this up (now that no one else is going to want to talk about it :p ), and I think it's alright. It only set me back $30, and the game really is too easy, but if you don't ace the first few stages, you can't get to the final stages to get the good ending (the ending I got involved the Earth being blown up with a giant laser :\ ), so there's good reason to replay over and over, getting higher rankings as you go.

That "good reason," by the way, will look like crap scripting, cheesey as Hell plot, and rediculously bad voice acting, but I assure you, burried under all that trash is more crap scripting, cheesey as Hell plot, and rediculously bad voice acting! You just can't lose!

Seriously, it's a decent game at $30, and I can definitely see myself having a lot more fun with this than Shattered Soldier.

Is it worth essentially $10?

http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/243896.asp

Yes, it is worth $10.

I've purchased Neo Contra too myself. Yes, I did found it to be ridiculously easy, mainly because the game simply hands out the more powerful weapon sets (Type D-F) after your first few playthroughs, allowing the player to ease through the game. It only took me a week to unlock everything, including Lucia II (aka Bikini Lucia). It's quite challenging if you stick to the default sets and try to get a high ranking with them, but I guess not many people feel to artificially extend the game's replay value.

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Originally Posted by shmup-o

Is it worth essentially $10?

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Hell no.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

I think the reasoning is that the overhead levels in the old Contras ranged from outright suck at worst to not as good as the normal fucking levels at best.

To base an entire game on them is pretty fucking stupid.

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They probbaly figured that they can pull off a Mercs or a shocktroopers. Mercs was especially well designed. The one player genesis version was still the shiz even after losing the 3 player mode it had in the arcade game.