Tomonobu Itagaki says he can do Pikman 3 better than Nintendo

cube.ign.com

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In an interview with Play Magazine, outspoken Team Ninja head Tomonobu Itagaki said that while he played and liked Pikmin 2, he could make a better sequel than Nintendo.

"Of course, there are other games I like to play, but I would not say I could not do a better job, because I know I could do a better job of making any game that is out there," he told the magazine. "I like Pikmin 2. Again, if I were asked to do a Pikmin 3, I could do a better job than Nintendo. But then if I do that, I can't just play for my personal enjoyment."

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I'll be back in a few hours to view the hilarity that this thread will become.

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I'll be back in a few hours to view the hilarity that this thread will become.

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I've just come back from the future, and omfgninjas called it the worst thread ever.

wow.

Just...wow.

I can never take what this guy says seriously. Which is what makes this quote so funny.

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Originally Posted by rezo

I've just come back from the future, and omfgninjas called it the worst thread ever.

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Curious. I've just come from the past -- yesterday, to be precise -- and saw the exact same thing. The once and future omfgninjas.

It's Ninjas of Futures Past!

I believe this news.



At the very least, he can make a better pikman 3 than Nintendo presents: Ninja Gaiden

He might want to get one genre right before he moves in on another one.

But that might result in his interviews being less "entertaining", and we can't have that.

Screw Pikmin--don't miss this beautiful part of Itagaki's quote: "...because I know I could do a better job of making any game that is out there..."

Itagaki is easily the most obnoxious video game celebrity ever. Worse than Dave Perry. I hope Reggie kicks his ass and takes his name.

Sounds like the goon's idea of making something better is just fitting it specifically to his tastes.

This guy is a tool! He couldn't even make a better Ninja Gaiden and the originals are what, like 10+ years old! What a dick.

Didn't he say exact same thing a few years ago, except you could replace the word "Pikmin 2" with "Tekken 4"? (Back when the next game was TTT, not T4). Sure buddy, reread that statement and try again when you come down from the crack. (Okay, Tekken 4 is not a good comparsion here, but whatever. My point still stands.) He is completely bush league... but we already know that.

He can do any game better? I also thinking that claiming that "he" can make anything better is completely pompous of him, since these games are developed by teams that run hundreds of people deep. Makes it sound like he consideres his development team to be unimportant...

(The best way to respond to this would be to not respond at all -- not feeding the trolls and all that -- but the general media will not ignore him until he screws up and becomes irreveleant, so screw it.)

-Dippy

You can't tell me that adding tiny titties to every Pikman and adding in a Pikman pool-hopping mini-game wouldn't instantly make Pikman 3 better than its predecesors.

Itagaki is the fucking man. No one else on Earth other than him can pull off a line like that and make it work.

Ninja Gaiden > Pikmin 1/2

Itagaki is going to make you his bitch.

Nintendo can make a better Ninja Gaiden sequel than Itagaki! :D Maybe not, but it is fun just to say that.

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Originally Posted by kingoffighters

Nintendo can make a better Ninja Gaiden sequel than Itagaki! :D Maybe not, but it is fun just to say that.

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Maybe not, but atleast they can make a decent camera for NG. :p

Well he has one major hurdle if he wants to make Pikmin 3; there are no DOA characters in it, and since that seems to be all that he can handle these days I don't see what he can do when the game features no generic anime characters made in 3D.

I don't know about making better games, but Itagaki would probably kick other developers' asses in a steel cage death match. He'd have the best insults before and after the fight, too.

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Originally Posted by kingoffighters

Nintendo can make a better Ninja Gaiden sequel than Itagaki!

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Get R&D1 to make one using the Fusion/Zero Mission engine and they could probably outdo Team Ninja. ;)

I think Team Ninja's greatest talent lies in their programmers. Their engines are incredible, especially Ninja Gaiden's. Most developers use half that amount of detail and have way worse frame rates.

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Originally Posted by Hero

wow.

Just...wow.

I can never take what this guy says seriously. Which is what makes this quote so funny.

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The quote is funny because its true.

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Originally Posted by Damian79

Maybe not, but atleast they can make a decent camera for NG. :p

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You say that yet I know you've played Super Mario Sunshine. Hang your head in shame.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

The quote is funny because its true.



You say that yet I know you've played Super Mario Sunshine. Hang your head in shame.

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This baffles me to this day, the camera in Mario 64 is better than Sunshine.

I'm more baffled that the camera in Mario 64 is better than not only Sunshine's, but most 3D platformers' cameras in general.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

You say that yet I know you've played Super Mario Sunshine. Hang your head in shame.

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No, I haven't played it. 3d mario games suck. I haven't touched SMS due to how boring Mario 64 was. :link:

But I jest, I know how bad SMS's camera is and hence why I will never go within a 10 foot pole of it. I agree with Nigel, Mario 64's camera was perfect yet somehow SMS's camera was utter trash.

And i was also kidding about Nintendo's camera being better, even though SMS's was the ony game that I think had such a bad camera system.

Itagaki can make anything better. I heard it's true.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy

I'm more baffled that the camera in Mario 64 is better than not only Sunshine's, but most 3D platformers' cameras in general.

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Agreed! I think Mario 64 has the best 3D camera ever. But I've heard people complain about that being broken too. :wtf: :confused: :wtf:

Mario 64? Broken camera? Please tell me I did not see those 4 words in the same sentence... :O

who the fuck does this idiot thk he is? Yu Suzuki or Miyamoto? if he could make a better Pikmin 2, why doesn't create his own Pikmin like game!


besides Ninja Gaiden i don't think Team Ninja has ever come close to the quality of Miyamoto or Yu Suzuki productions! :confused:


and if he wanted to improve on games, he should do so to the xbox game library!

what a moron!

Just imagine a hack where Olimar is now Zack and you have 100 Ayames, Tinas, Leifangs and Kasumis running around doing your bidding.

Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by marwan

who the fuck does this idiot thk he is? Yu Suzuki or Miyamoto? if he could make a better Pikmin 2, why doesn't create his own Pikmin like game!


besides Ninja Gaiden i don't think Team Ninja has ever come close to the quality of Miyamoto or Yu Suzuki productions! :confused:


and if he wanted to improve on games, he should do so to the xbox game library!

what a moron!

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Who the hell are Yu Suzuki and Miyamoto? Top tier designers perhaps, but hardly the untouchable gods that everyone around here seems to believe they are. Suzuki especially, aside from Virtua Fighter and maybe Shenmue, he's done nothing noteworthy as of late. Miyamoto, barely designs anything anymore seeing as how his primary creations have been farmed out to other designers.

This doesn't make Itagaki's comment any less goofy, mind you.

im talking about yu and miyamoto in general, and thier impact on thier videogame industry! they were a revelotion, unlike this idiotic itagaki guy!

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Originally Posted by Master of 7s

Who the hell are Yu Suzuki and Miyamoto? Top tier designers perhaps, but hardly the untouchable gods that everyone around here seems to believe they are. Suzuki especially, aside from Virtua Fighter and maybe Shenmue, he's done nothing noteworthy as of late. Miyamoto, barely designs anything anymore seeing as how his primary creations have been farmed out to other designers.

This doesn't make Itagaki's comment any less goofy, mind you.

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Do you think if Miyamoto got his hands dirty again it wouldn't be amazing?

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I know I could do a better job of making any game that is out there

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Whatever. How is someone so naive in charge of a development team? Itagaki couldn't even hope to touch the game in my sig, let alone make it better.

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Originally Posted by iidx Nick

Itagaki is the fucking man. No one else on Earth other than him can pull off a line like that and make it work.

Ninja Gaiden > Pikmin 1/2

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Hell yes :p

I love how people actually get pissed off at this guys quotes. The Itagaki has already won.

You know, I've spent more time playing Ninja Gaiden than I have any Miyamoto game since SNES. He might have a point.

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Originally Posted by marwan

snip

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Honestly you silly man, go play these games before you make a comment like that.

And use "www.dictionary.com" along the way.

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Originally Posted by Tracer

I love how people actually get pissed off at this guys quotes. The Itagaki has already won.

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Thats why I love these threads. No one pisses off TNL like Itagaki and it's gold. It's the best of TNL, being TNL and trying to out hardcore one another. I eat this shit up like Fruit Loops.

Itagaki makes great games that appeal to a broad audience of tastes and skill levels (See: Mainstream, Average Gamers, The hardcore) and is successful in doing it. He has a loud mouth that is refreshing and is often times hilarious in a "AWNOHEDIDNT" way. He speaks the truth and is super fobby while doing it. He is truly a man or talent.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams or someone else no one cares about

THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT HE NEVER MADE A GREAT GAME THAT APPEALED TO ANYONE DAT IZNT DUM LOL DOAX SNORT CHUCKLE IKARUGA

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The Itagaki has already won.

Ninja Gaiden is better than Pikman.

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Originally Posted by Nigel

Do you think if Miyamoto got his hands dirty again it wouldn't be amazing?

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If Miyamoto chose to get back into the thick of things there wouldn't be anymore trash like Super Mario Sunshine. His role as a supervisor is all that kept that game from total suck.

TNL has hit a new low when we're comparing Ninja Gaiden and Pikmin. They're both good games that people who enjoy their respective genres loved. If you compare the two then you just fall into Itagaki's trap. This whole fiasco is just to stir up controversy, something that is common in the music and art world, yet when it happens here in the gaming world bombs start dropping. The fact is Nintendo and Miyamoto are the old vanguard, while Team Ninja and Itagaki are the new blood.

For Itagaki NOT to try and set himself above the old school would be to do what nearly every Western and every Japanese developer does: remain beholden to the old ways while being almost ashamed of the new ones. It's oddball caustic comments like this that are pushing gaming further from its respected but somewhat suffocating heritage as a hobby and into its new future as an art form.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

TNL has hit a new low when we're comparing Ninja Gaiden and Pikmin. They're both good games that people who enjoy their respective genres loved. If you compare the two then you just fall into Itagaki's trap.

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Well said - Its like comparing ..well... La Pucelle to the Mooninites , or Shinobi to Johnny Quest, or Dante to Captain Planet, or.... |-) you get it..

Yeah, I think Itagaki was just fucking around. I'd like to believe he's not a pompous ass that would put another company's work down - especially when its not bad work. I can see making fun of another game and their programmers if they suck..but otherwise...

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Captain Planet

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Captain Planet said that no one should have more than two kids. Otherwise, we risk overpopulation which would drain our planet of it's valuable resources.

THE POWER IS YOURS!

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Originally Posted by g0zen

It's oddball caustic comments like this that are pushing gaming further from its respected but somewhat suffocating heritage as a hobby and into its new future as an art form.

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How in the hell did you come to this conclusion? Acting like a jackass in nearly every interview does nothing to advance gaming as an art form, yet you commend him for essentially bashing one of the most quirky and innovative games/series of this console generation. Give me a fucking break.

I suppose he is distinguishing himself from the "old guard" by developing mediocre games for a Japanese company exclusively on a platform with a virtually nonexistent Japanese fan base. Innovative!

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Originally Posted by Jetman

Well said - Its like comparing ..well... La Pucelle to the Mooninites , or Shinobi to Johnny Quest, or Dante to Captain Planet, or.... |-) you get it..

Yeah, I think Itagaki was just fucking around. I'd like to believe he's not a pompous ass that would put another company's work down - especially when its not bad work. I can see making fun of another game and their programmers if they suck..but otherwise...

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He didn't put it down. He said he enjoyed the game. Read the actual quote. He just said he could make a better one.

To come up with the idea in the first place is alot harder than to improve on something that already exists.

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Originally Posted by Tracer

He didn't put it down. He said he enjoyed the game. Read the actual quote. He just said he could make a better one.

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He might as well put it down,he's implying that it sucks on some level by saying that - and how nice of Itagaki to point out where he would improve upon it to make a better game that would make it worthy of him putting his name on it. -- Oh, wait he didnt...

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Originally Posted by Spike

To come up with the idea in the first place is alot harder than to improve on something that already exists.

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Originally Posted by Spike

To come up with the idea in the first place is alot harder than to improve on something that already exists.

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Not that I've played Pikman, but is'nt it essentially a 3-d version of Lemmings?

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Originally Posted by Mamoscott

*rampant Nintendo fanboyism*

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Just because you don't like what Itagaki has to say doesn't mean he isn't right. What has nearly every hit game on the GameCube been? Rehashes of their old franchises. That's not innovation. Sure, they were good games, but they're still just new coats of paint on the same house. We need to move away from that.

I would like to take Itagaki's statement as more of a challenge to Miyamoto than an insult.

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Originally Posted by Mamoscott

I suppose he is distinguishing himself from the "old guard" by developing mediocre games for a Japanese company exclusively on a platform with a virtually nonexistent Japanese fan base. Innovative!

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What you consider mediocre games, many more people (myself included) consider fantastic. As far as a 'virtually nonexistent' Japanese fan base for the Xbox, I say that sort of japan-o-centric POV is a classic example of constipated thinking. This argument was settled in 2001, but I guess we'll have to open it back up for the sake of the Nintendophiles - The Xbox is a legitimate console even if it doesn't sell in Japan. There are just as many great, innovative titles on the Xbox as there are on the GameCube (maybe even more).

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Not that I've played Pikman, but is'nt it essentially a 3-d version of Lemmings?

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I'm not referencing Pikmin, mate. I'm going by his comment that he can make any game better.

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Originally Posted by Jetman

He might as well put it down,he's implying that it sucks on some level by saying that - and how nice of Itagaki to point out where he would improve upon it to make a better game that would make it worthy of him putting his name on it. -- Oh, wait he didnt...

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I think you have a bigger problem with Itagaki than he has with Pikmin.

I wouldn't think Itagaki could, going by his track record, he doesn't know how to balance games(excluding NG which I haven't played). I mean basic things like punching and kicking are not even done right in his DOA games. Not to mention the other flaws in the games.

He could add a ton of fun things into the game ala DOA2 ultimate, but in the end you would have a very unbalanced strategy game which imo is like an oxymoron. All judging by his track record of course. He may have learned a lot over the years.

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Originally Posted by Tracer

I think you have a bigger problem with Itagaki than he has with Pikmin.

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Nah, I have no problem with Itagaki. I actually do like NG, not the biggest DOA fan, but whatever. To each his own.

It just sounded like kind of a cocky thing for him to say. Who knows maybe thats the image of himself he wants to promote. Whatever yanks his crank.
Like I said he probably was just joking around. If he wasnt than he's a ass. simple. All depends on how he said it.

Even if he is an ass. I dont really give a shit because Ill still buy Rygar 2 or NG 2 or whatever he puts out next that is halfway decent. Im not going to boycott his games because he's an ass - that'd only hurt me not him. :p

Honestly, how many times have you sat there and said, This sucks! I could make it better!! If I had to bet, everyone here is guilty of doing that. In HIS mind, he could make it better.

This is all moot anyway, they both suck.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

Just because you don't like what Itagaki has to say doesn't mean he isn't right. What has nearly every hit game on the GameCube been? Rehashes of their old franchises. That's not innovation. Sure, they were good games, but they're still just new coats of paint on the same house. We need to move away from that.

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Nothing in Itagaki's quotes suggest that lack of innovation in Nintendo franchises is the reasoning behind his idiotic comments. He's just being a jackass, and you're simply making up your own justifications for his statements, yet I must be a Nintendo fanboy to point that out? Please.

Oh, and he wasn't just talking about Nintendo either. He said any game, which of course means both you and him are completely wrong.

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What you consider mediocre games, many more people (myself included) consider fantastic.

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Yeah, Ninja Gaiden didn't completely suck, and it wasn't innovative at all. He's got a mediocre fighting series under his belt along with a terrible spinoff volleyball game. Someone give this guy a medal. :rolleyes:

Speaking of which, where's the innovation in Itagaki's games? DOA2->DOA3->DOA: Ultimate. Same game with a new coat of paint indeed...so why would you only hold Nintendo to a higher standard?

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As far as a 'virtually nonexistent' Japanese fan base for the Xbox, I say that sort of japan-o-centric POV is a classic example of constipated thinking. This argument was settled in 2001, but I guess we'll have to open it back up for the sake of the Nintendophiles - The Xbox is a legitimate console even if it doesn't sell in Japan.

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Legitimate consoles actually earn money for the companies that develop them at some point. The only reason dominance of the Japanese market "is not necessary" is because MS is willingly losing billions of dollars to keep the Xbox in the market.

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There are just as many great, innovative titles on the Xbox as there are on the GameCube (maybe even more).

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Just not from Itagaki...and all those other great, innovative Xbox titles are also available for the PS2 or PC.

Even though I think Itagaki is an overrated douchebag who has exactly one worthy game to his name... why are you making such a big deal about innovation? A game that's unique purely for the sake of being unique (Luigi's Mansion) is rarely as fun as a game that's tried and true, but extremely polished (Ninja Gaiden). Without good execution, innovation means exactly dick.

Itagaki isn't innovative, and neither is Nintendo. I don't see this as a bad thing for either of them. It all comes down to the final product.

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Originally Posted by rezo

Captain Planet said that no one should have more than two kids. Otherwise, we risk overpopulation which would drain our planet of it's valuable resources.

THE POWER IS YOURS!

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by iidx Nick

Honestly you silly man, go play these games before you make a comment like that.

And use "www.dictionary.com" along the way.

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what the hell is "snip" and when the fuck did i say that silly man? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Spike

To come up with the idea in the first place is alot harder than to improve on something that already exists.

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To quote the late Douglas Adams:

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An idea is only an idea.

An actual script, on the other hand, is hundreds of ideas bashed around, screwed up, thrown into a bin, fished out of the bin an hour later and folded up into thick wads and put under the leg of a table to stop it wobbling. And then the same again for the next line, and the next, and so on, until you have a whole page or the table finally keels over.

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I think the same can be applied to videogame development. If the hard part was coming up with an idea in the first place then Square would be releasing a new Final Fantasy every month.

Anyone can come up with an idea for a videogame. The hard part is developing that idea to fruition... and now that you've used up all your good ideas in the first one, be challenged to develop a sequel that is at the same time a significant improvement from the original and still true to it. Itagaki probably could improve Pikman, but could he improve it enough to be a true sequel? That I'm not so sure about.

Pikmin's camera was annoying at times so I think Itagaki would be right at home with the Pikmin series...

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Originally Posted by animegirl20

Ninja Gaiden is better than Pikman.

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Honestly, no it's not.

It comes down to personal preference. I prefer NG to Pikman, and think that it is indeed a better game. But then again, almost none of recent Nintendo output was.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

You say that yet I know you've played Super Mario Sunshine. Hang your head in shame.

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The catch in using a fully controllable camera system (as in SMS) is it being only as good as the player behind it. ;)

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Originally Posted by sethsez

Even though I think Itagaki is an overrated douchebag who has exactly one worthy game to his name... why are you making such a big deal about innovation? A game that's unique purely for the sake of being unique (Luigi's Mansion) is rarely as fun as a game that's tried and true, but extremely polished (Ninja Gaiden). Without good execution, innovation means exactly dick.

Itagaki isn't innovative, and neither is Nintendo. I don't see this as a bad thing for either of them. It all comes down to the final product.

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I think Luigi's Mansion is a better game than Ninja Gaiden. NG bored me to tears and LM didn't. I had a ton of fun playing LM.

I liked Luigi's Mansion because it offered up little things with the vacuum like trying to pull the drapes off and table clothes, blowing wind on chandeliers and whatnot. It was great and I liked it a lot.

Ninja Gaiden was great... but it was a one trick pony.

They're just different.

True they are very different games and they probably shouldn't be compared. I was just expressing which one I had more fun playing.

Btw, is Pikmin any good? I have never played it, just curious what TNL thinks of this game.

We hate it. Much like how we hate Ninja Gaiden, and every other Itagaki game.

but no, I jest. THey like it.

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Originally Posted by jarrod

The catch in using a fully controllable camera system (as in SMS) is it being only as good as the player behind it. ;)

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Alright, it needs to be said again, SMS has the absolute best camera ever created for an open-ended 3D platformer. They took Mario 64's camera and added a little bit more functionality to it. If you can't operate it, your brain is weak.

As for Itagaki, he just said that 'cause he knows it's ludicrous. What he hopes to gain from it...who knows, maybe some exposure.

Kingoffighters, Pikmin is fantastic!! It's cheap as well so go try it.

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Originally Posted by Spike

To come up with the idea in the first place is alot harder than to improve on something that already exists.

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I agree one hundred percent. But to be fair, by that logic Itagaki has to be given credit as a creative genius for coming up with the idea of lifting Virtua Fighter's entire engine and inserting breasts for dead or al.....um, what I meant to say was seeing Beach Spikers and taking the women from Dead or Alive and putting them in a volleyball game with the innovation being that there's no gamepla......ummm, I mean.....

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I agree one hundred percent.

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Why do you agree with something that is so blatantly wrong, though? Everyone has ideas. Not everyone can see these through a finished product that is good.

You cant fucking play an idea for a good videogame. You cant listen to an idea for a good song. You cant watch an idea for a good movie. You cant read an idea for a good book. You cant benefit solely from a politician's good ideas. Not only that, good ideas dont always turn into good products. Execution is what matters, slugger. To think otherwise is retarded.

Pikmin is this generation's Blast Corps, the most unique and underrated/underexposed game of it's era.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Why do you agree with something that is so blatantly wrong, though? Everyone has ideas. Not everyone can see these through a finished product that is good.

You cant fucking play an idea for a good videogame. You cant listen to an idea for a good song. You cant watch an idea for a good movie. You cant read an idea for a good book. You cant benefit solely from a politician's good ideas. Not only that, good ideas dont always turn into good products. Execution is what matters, slugger. To think otherwise is retarded.

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Are you missing something? The comparison is between having the idea (Pikmin being original) and improving an existing idea (taking existing Pikmin and making it better after the fact). Why are you rambling about ideas not being games, last I checked Pikmin was on store shelves and was a damn good idea for a game.

One more time, we're talking about developing a unique/original good game being harder to do than taking an existing unique good game and improving on it.

To come up with a genuinely unique idea and make it work however is a very big feat. And now pikmin is not a big feat, though it is probably the first RTS of it's kind to work(ie feel natural) on a console. The idea is definately not new.

A truly unique idea to me is like DK jungle beat(using bongo drums to play a game in order to simplify games? Genius) and Odama(the military pinball game).

Eyetoy and pac pix also come to mind.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

Pikmin is this generation's Blast Corps, the most unique and underrated/underexposed game of it's era.




Are you missing something? The comparison is between having the idea (Pikmin being original) and improving an existing idea (taking existing Pikmin and making it better after the fact). Why are you rambling about ideas not being games, last I checked Pikmin was on store shelves and was a damn good idea for a game.

One more time, we're talking about developing a unique/original good game being harder to do than taking an existing unique good game and improving on it.

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Spo, don't bother, he's crazy.

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Originally Posted by kbuchanan

Alright, it needs to be said again, SMS has the absolute best camera ever created for an open-ended 3D platformer. They took Mario 64's camera and added a little bit more functionality to it. If you can't operate it, your brain is weak.

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Then just about everyone I've ever spoken to about SMS must be weak in the brain. ;)

The camera in SMS is broken, plain and simple. They took the awesome camera from M64 and screwed it up.

Heck, the camera in Rayman 2 shits all over SMS's.

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Originally Posted by Melf

Heck, the camera in Rayman 2 shits all over SMS's.

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BURN!!!:lol:

Odama's actually one of my most anticipated games, it looks like tons of fun. I also can't wait to get my hands on Namco's Cube stuff (Starfox and the Bongo games)

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Originally Posted by kingoffighters

Btw, is Pikmin any good? I have never played it, just curious what TNL thinks of this game.

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Pikmin 2 is badass.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

Odama's actually one of my most anticipated games, it looks like tons of fun. I also can't wait to get my hands on Namco's Cube stuff (Starfox and the Bongo games)

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Donky Konga is a blast. Shame (and GREAT shame) there is no online multi-player. Nintendo sucks for that.

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Originally Posted by Tracer

Pikmin 2 is badass.

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[thumb]http://www.imedical.com/ijpas/lockwood/13.jpg[/thumb]

I agree.

:lol:

I meant, "Pikmin 2 is good." Even Itagaki enjoys it.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Why do you agree with something that is so blatantly wrong, though? Everyone has ideas. Not everyone can see these through a finished product that is good.

You cant fucking play an idea for a good videogame. You cant listen to an idea for a good song. You cant watch an idea for a good movie. You cant read an idea for a good book. You cant benefit solely from a politician's good ideas. Not only that, good ideas dont always turn into good products. Execution is what matters, slugger. To think otherwise is retarded.

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Your theory was disproven when you said...

"Politician's good idea's"

Also, my two cents.

No, he wouldn't, because pikmin is far to "one persons idea", just like him putting a shop and resident evil puzzles in ninja gaiden were things no one else ever would have thought of.

He's got a lot of talent, but I wouldn't trust him with my football game, or Halo 2, or anything that wasn't his own idea.

Just like a Miyamato built GTA would probably suck, (be interesting) but suck.

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Originally Posted by Damian79

To come up with a genuinely unique idea and make it work however is a very big feat. And now pikmin is not a big feat, though it is probably the first RTS of it's kind to work(ie feel natural) on a console. The idea is definately not new.

A truly unique idea to me is like DK jungle beat(using bongo drums to play a game in order to simplify games? Genius) and Odama(the military pinball game).

Eyetoy and pac pix also come to mind.

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The Eyetoy technology has been around since the days of Nick Arcade. I've tried a similar game in Disney's Epcot and I grew bored of it after awhile.

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Originally Posted by Melf

Then just about everyone I've ever spoken to about SMS must be weak in the brain. ;)

The camera in SMS is broken, plain and simple. They took the awesome camera from M64 and screwed it up.

Heck, the camera in Rayman 2 shits all over SMS's.

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Again, the camera in SMS is only as good as the player behind it, that was the intention. You can argue the merits of Mario Sunshine's fully manual camera system but criticizing the camera performance itself is essentially saying the player him/herself "is broken" rather than the camera.

The lone area of exception would be behind the ferris wheel, where the camera just went insane through no fault of the player. Other than that, I always had the perfect angle I needed in SMS, a manual camera is probably the best option in a 3D action game imo... I wish EAD had kept it for Zelda.

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Originally Posted by Damian79

To come up with a genuinely unique idea and make it work however is a very big feat. And now pikmin is not a big feat, though it is probably the first RTS of it's kind to work(ie feel natural) on a console. The idea is definately not new.

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Oh I dunno, Pikmin is actually more of a RTS/adventure hybrid than anything else. Moving the focus from resource micromanagement onto exploratory environmental puzzle solving and actually being in control of Olimar (rather than pointing a cursor around) really distinguish it from it's PC bretheren... really there's nothing else like it, can't say the same for EyeToy.

Plenty of RTS games lack any sort of resource management and end up having puzzle elements. Look at Myth, or the Sid Meier's Gettysburg!, Shogun: Total War (the combat portions at least), or Ground Control. You could even make a case for a game like Dungeon Siege, whose RPG elements were so light that it really was more of an RTS where you controlled 4 characters instead of dozens.

And even the RTS games with resource management hardly make it the focus of the game.

Really, the one thing that Pikmin has that most RTS games do not is that it is an RTS without the heavy combat focus... but since it's Nintendo we're talking about that shouldn't be a big surprise.

Don't forget Commandos 1-3.

I had no problem with the Sunshine camera. I had other problems with the game, just no camera issues.

I played Pikmin and I loved it. Great game.

I JUST started Ninja Gaiden last night. Got to stage 5 with no problems yet... and this is a great game. Can't wait to get through it and try out the Hurricane Pack.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Plenty of RTS games lack any sort of resource management and end up having puzzle elements. Look at Myth, or the Sid Meier's Gettysburg!, Shogun: Total War (the combat portions at least), or Ground Control. You could even make a case for a game like Dungeon Siege, whose RPG elements were so light that it really was more of an RTS where you controlled 4 characters instead of dozens.

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Eh, I still reiterate there's really nothing on the market like Pikmin. The character focus (via controling Olimar), puzzle solving mechanics (not only in world/environment exploration but also combat and boss encounters, shades of Zelda/Metroid) and miniature real world/alien sci-fi setting still set it apart from something like Myth or Shogun. Pikmin's really equal parts action and strategy and it works surprisingly well, especially for EAD's first time out in the RTS genre.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

And even the RTS games with resource management hardly make it the focus of the game.

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Sorry, I should've said "moving focus" rather than "moving the focus".

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Really, the one thing that Pikmin has that most RTS games do not is that it is an RTS without the heavy combat focus... but since it's Nintendo we're talking about that shouldn't be a big surprise.

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Combat is still central (as with most Nintendo games actually), the focus is really on puzzle solving (as with most Nintendo games again) and combat is still a key component in that. Why do you feel otherwise?

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Originally Posted by youandwhosearmy

...just like him putting a shop and resident evil puzzles in ninja gaiden were things no one else ever would have thought of.

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The item shop and Resident Evil "puzzles" are by far the worst elements of Ninja Gaiden other than its lousy camera.

Pikmin stands out mainly based on the design of the characters and environments. Its a simple Puzzle game. But its an extremly fun game. Also I doubt Itagaki was even thinking about what and how he could make Pikmin better, I bet he just blurted out what ever Nintendo game popped into his head first.

And it still boggles my mind as to how many of you people have trouble using camera in video games. Its a simple matter of pushing the stick in a direction till you can see better. I literally had ZERO problems using the camera in SMS.

And someone mentioned probelems with the camera in Pikmin, I can't even imagine how that can be possible, its a birds eye view!

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Originally Posted by Clash_Master

And it still boggles my mind as to how many of you people have trouble using camera in video games. Its a simple matter of pushing the stick in a direction till you can see better. I literally had ZERO problems using the camera in SMS.

And someone mentioned probelems with the camera in Pikmin, I can't even imagine how that can be possible, its a birds eye view!

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I want to sit there and watch them play the game and see where the trouble comes from.

Also, Ninga Gaiden THROWS points at you to buy stuff... I'm usually stocked with 10 potions and buy every scroll and weapon upgrade pretty easy, as well as the moon bracelet. It was great in Devil May Cry (easily my favorite PS2 action game), and it's great here.

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Originally Posted by Clash_Master

And someone mentioned probelems with the camera in Pikmin, I can't even imagine how that can be possible, its a birds eye view!

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There were times that walls would block the camera, preventing you from getting a good side view of Olimar. The Deep Forest and last level are example that come to mind, esp when areas became really narrow. What they should've done is make anything that prevents you from seeing Olimar, transparent which I hoped they fixed in Pikmin 2.

Oh yeah, and beating the last level of Pikmin on one day was insane!

God, I REALLY enjoyed Super Mario Sunshine. If I was at a bad camera angle, I would *GASP GASP GASPPPPPP* change the angle. Why do people bitch about SMS when almost the EXACT EXACT same camera is on Splinter Cell/PT? You learn to change it yourself. Float a fucking boat.

SMS = Best Camera Ever. It's like Mario 64s but instead of rotating the camera in increments, you can put it exactly where you want it (as close as you want it or as far as you want it) and it'll stay at that angle. Or if you'd rather have it follow behind you, you just click a button, and there it is. It's as close to perfect as I can imagine. The only reason it gets so much flak is because it's a Mario game. The haters want to hit where it hurts.

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Originally Posted by iidx Nick

God, I REALLY enjoyed Super Mario Sunshine. If I was at a bad camera angle, I would *GASP GASP GASPPPPPP* change the angle. Why do people bitch about SMS when almost the EXACT EXACT same camera is on Splinter Cell/PT? You learn to change it yourself. Float a fucking boat.

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SMS was and is the shit. If there's a better free-roaming platformer out there, it's name is Mario 64. It doesn't deserve any of the flak it gets (even if a couple of the tasks weren't perfect).

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Originally Posted by kbuchanan

SMS = Best Camera Ever. It's like Mario 64s but instead of rotating the camera in increments, you can put it exactly where you want it (as close as you want it or as far as you want it) and it'll stay at that angle. Or if you'd rather have it follow behind you, you just click a button, and there it is. It's as close to perfect as I can imagine. The only reason it gets so much flak is because it's a Mario game. The haters want to hit where it hurts.



SMS was and is the shit. If there's a better free-roaming platformer out there, it's name is Mario 64. It doesn't deserve any of the flak it gets (even if a couple of the tasks weren't perfect).

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I loved SMS and I think it is a great game. Mario 64 is easily better IMO. As far as the camera issues go, there was a few problem areas and that is why I think Mario 64 has the better camera. As someone mentioned earlier, behind the ferris wheel it would go crazy.

All of you pro SMS camera people keep mentioning that it is only as good as the person moving it and that simply isn't true. Although that is clearly the intent with the SMS camera it just doesn't work that way. If you put it in the perfect place and then start moving about(behind the ferris wheel or in the Pachinko machine area)it just starts to flail about on its own. The premise for the camera is great, but the execution wasn't perfect. I still think it is the 2nd best free roaming platforming game ever.

My right thumb never leaves the analog nub unless it needs to, like jumping. That way it never goes crazy and I always have the perfect camera view. JUST LIKE PANDORA TOMORROW. They give you the freedom to move the camera wherever you want, and people bitch about it. When it is a fixed camera, people bitch it's not perfect.

What was the best camera in a 3D game ever? Whenever I think about my time with SMS, I think about how much fun it was to float around on the gadget, clean up the city and fight baddies. I never once had a problem with the camera. I had a problem with the camera on Resident Evil, which is still a great series.

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Originally Posted by Nigel

All of you pro SMS camera people keep mentioning that it is only as good as the person moving it and that simply isn't true. Although that is clearly the intent with the SMS camera it just doesn't work that way. If you put it in the perfect place and then start moving about(behind the ferris wheel or in the Pachinko machine area)it just starts to flail about on its own. The premise for the camera is great, but the execution wasn't perfect. I still think it is the 2nd best free roaming platforming game ever.

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It does indeed "work that way" a good 95% of the time. In fact, behind the ferris wheel was the only place I had any trouble (guess I lucked out with the Pachinko board, though I have heard of camera problems there). Compare those miniscule glitches to the debiltatingly flawed camera systems of something like Ninja Gaiden or Sonic Adventure 2...

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Originally Posted by iidx Nick

My right thumb never leaves the analog nub unless it needs to, like jumping. That way it never goes crazy and I always have the perfect camera view. JUST LIKE PANDORA TOMORROW. They give you the freedom to move the camera wherever you want, and people bitch about it. When it is a fixed camera, people bitch it's not perfect.

What was the best camera in a 3D game ever? Whenever I think about my time with SMS, I think about how much fun it was to float around on the gadget, clean up the city and fight baddies. I never once had a problem with the camera. I had a problem with the camera on Resident Evil, which is still a great series.

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I think the best camera ever in a 3D game is easily Mario 64. I don't think the camera is better in SMS and that's what I don't get. The camera in Ninja Gaiden fucking sucked! If you have to keep your thumb on the camera stick to move it back when it moves by itself than that's a problem. Not a major one, and I don't think it effected the game's fun. I just think that Mario 64 had Zero problems where SMS had a few. Still great fun, still a really functional camera, just not perfect.
By the way, Splinter Cell suffers from the same thing but even worse but I only play online so I don't know how it effects the single player game.

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Originally Posted by Nigel

I think the best camera ever in a 3D game is easily Mario 64. I don't think the camera is better in SMS and that's what I don't get. The camera in Ninja Gaiden fucking sucked! If you have to keep your thumb on the camera stick to move it back when it moves by itself than that's a problem. Not a major one, and I don't think it effected the game's fun. I just think that Mario 64 had Zero problems where SMS had a few. Still great fun, still a really functional camera, just not perfect.
By the way, Splinter Cell suffers from the same thing but even worse but I only play online so I don't know how it effects the single player game.

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I hated Ninja Gaiden's camera view, but I had no problems with Pandora Tommorow's single player view at all. To me it's pretty similar to the online play.

Galleon has the best camera system I've seen in a 3D game. It has to work harder than the camera in Mario 64 and I never once had a problem with it. Pity I can't say the same about the rest of the game.

Oh great, and here we go back to NG camera suckage discussion.

:lol: Good old TNL :lol:

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Originally Posted by Ammadeau

Galleon has the best camera system I've seen in a 3D game. It has to work harder than the camera in Mario 64 and I never once had a problem with it. Pity I can't say the same about the rest of the game.

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Yes, Galleon's camera is one of the best for sure and I love the game.

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Originally Posted by Despair

Oh great, and here we go back to NG camera suckage discussion.

:lol: Good old TNL :lol:

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Good old TNL or that camera blows, take your pick. ;)