Homosexuality

I am sick and tired of it, I'm tired of parents hating their children because they're homosexual. I'm tired of hearing people talk about how much they hate it without giving me a single legitimate reason as to WHY homosexuality is wrong. I have heard "Because it's in the bible", "It's disgusting", let me tell you THAT IS NOT A REASON.

Homosexuality is just love felt for the same gender, or physical attraction, if you're a homophobe I feel that you have no right to ever complain about racism. Why? Because it's the EXACT SAME! Yes, people of different races had no control over what race they were born. But it's come to my attention that homosexuality is the feeling of love, which as most people with half a brain know, is something you cannot control.

There is no reason; that children should have to fear admitting this to their parents. There is no reason; for a child to be grounded for over a year because they are bisexual. None. Not. A single legitimate reason, if there is one I ask someone PM me that so I know that my harsh offense has a flaw in it. Because I fail to see the problem, and why people are against gay marriages. It doesn't hurt anyone, though finding a church to marry them may be difficult, the government should give them the same rights as it does to other people.

Yeah, I'm in a pissy mood (It was much more.. violent in my head v.v) if someone has a reason that homosexuals do something wrong, by all means pm it to me. I don't think much less of people who hate homosexuals, but I do think less of people who abuse them in any way, and who think homosexuals are lower than them.

In before cock. Oh wait, this is a serious thread?

Well yes and no. It's just me ranting on about how stupid people are, especially parents. You can be serious, or you can be you, both seem appropriate. Humor is needed <3 Dave.

I spread this disgust even further and am sick of people that get pissed off and irate at things that have no effect on their lives whatsoever. Two consenting adults want to do something within the bounds of the law? Leave them the fuck alone.

Yeah, I agree with you btw, it's lame that the fear of rejection keeps gays in the closet, I blame religion....and republicans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

I am sick and tired of it, I'm tired of parents hating their children because they're homosexual. I'm tired of hearing people talk about how much they hate it without giving me a single legitimate reason as to WHY homosexuality is wrong. I have heard "Because it's in the bible", "It's disgusting", let me tell you THAT IS NOT A REASON.

---

That IS a reason. You may not like it, but tough shit, it's still a reason.

If I was a parent, and my kid was gay, I would be mad because I wouldnt be getting any grandchildren. If its my only kid, then my bloodline, which stretches back how fucking long, ends there. It fucking sucks. Theres not a whole lot I would be able to do about it but I would still be pissed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

though finding a church to marry them may be difficult, the government should give them the same rights as it does to other people.

---

So religion isn't a reason and should be disregarded yet you want to use a religious building and ceremony as the means to bind two people together? Hypocritical.

diffusion explained that they have the same rights as you or I. You and me aren't allowed to marry men, they aren't either. That's equal rights. Except I could if I wanted to because I live in Toronto and it's legal.

Oh and I'm not religious, but it's so bad for someone to want to be married in a religious ceremony. It's hypocritical. God SHUNS you if you're gay, according to the Bible. Yet... you want to be married in holy matrimony, which is against their very beliefs?

I don't care about homosexuality, it doesn't bother me and I don't judge people because I don't care. But lets get real about this. It's antagonistic to condemn people for hating homosexuallity then go to a place of worship that forbids it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew

That IS a reason. You may not like it, but tough shit, it's still a reason.

---

They're more excuses than reasons.

Like "protecting the sanctity of marriage," lol.

They should keep fucking celebrities from marrying, then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew

Oh and I'm not religious, but it's so bad for someone to want to be married in a religious ceremony. It's hypocritical. God SHUNS you if you're gay, according to the Bible. Yet... you want to be married in holy matrimony, which is against their very beliefs?

---

I think most just want to be legally married. I don't see the problem with THAT seeing as how there's a separation between church and state around here, right?

Right??

The problem is it is a reason that contradicts what I know about the christian religion. If god is so accepting, so loving, and this may be a sin god forgives sins. Alright alright, oh and wait... we aren't supposed to do the judgement we need to leave that to god. Alright alright so you don't like them ok but to say they can't live their life? That's doing "god's" work for him. Not to mention it's an emotion, they have as much control over it is as they would being black, or asian.

And as Micheal jackson proved, yeah you can change that. But the point is, most of the people I talk to don't chose how they feel, but because it's a sin they should be alone and miserable? Bullshit. The christian religion may deem it a sin, but all sins are supposed to be equal and we are supposed to forgive sins.

Yeah I know "it's disgusting" is a reason. But it's idiotic you have me there, even though I'm sure I can say many things about them that are disgusting but that's just humanity I guess.

Of course, if I've misinterpreted the christian religion and the bible, by all means say something.

By the way, I appreciate what you're saying Andrew because I've been one track minded about this all day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mzo

I think most just want to be legally married. I don't see the problem with THAT seeing as how there's a separation between church and state around here, right?

Right??

---

If they want to get married then they can go down to the court house and have a judge do it, without religion.

That's illegal

Exactly if what you said were true, I wouldn't be so upset, but they can't. That's the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffx

If I was a parent, and my kid was gay, I would be mad because I wouldnt be getting any grandchildren. If its my only kid, then my bloodline, which stretches back how fucking long, ends there. It fucking sucks. Theres not a whole lot I would be able to do about it but I would still be pissed.

---

Adoption is always there as well. But I understand what you're saying. But there is also so many ways around that now sooo yeah :/ But you're right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew

If they want to get married then they can go down to the court house and have a judge do it, without religion.

---

Actually they can't. That's part of what all this hubbub is about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew

If they want to get married then they can go down to the court house and have a judge do it, without religion.

---

Assmunch, that's what I'm saying. They CAN'T. It's ILLEGAL to do so in a court house.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

The problem is it is a reason that contradicts what I know about the christian religion. If god is so accepting, so loving, and this may be a sin god forgives sins. Alright alright, oh and wait... we aren't supposed to do the judgement we need to leave that to god. Alright alright so you don't like them ok but to say they can't live their life? That's doing "god's" work for him. Not to mention it's an emotion, they have as much control over it is as they would being black, or asian.

---

God already judged gays and condemned them. Do I judge gays? No. Like I said, I don't care about gays. I would just as soon be friends with a cool gay guy then a lame straight guy. But as the same time emotion is intangible and skin colour isn't.

Living life isn't being married. Most would say being married is life after death.

Quote:

---

And as Micheal jackson proved, yeah you can change that. But the point is, most of the people I talk to don't chose how they feel, but because it's a sin they should be alone and miserable? Bullshit. The christian religion may deem it a sin, but all sins are supposed to be equal and we are supposed to forgive sins.

---

You don't forgive a murderer who hasn't changed their ways and goes back out and murders someone. So according to you all murderers should be set free because it's just like murdering someone, no wait that's the bible... only the Bible's commandment says thou shall not kill.

Quote:

---

Yeah I know "it's disgusting" is a reason. But it's idiotic you have me there, even though I'm sure I can say many things about them that are disgusting but that's just humanity I guess.

Of course, if I've misinterpreted the christian religion and the bible, by all means say something.

---

I think you're boiling religion down a little bit. Religion isn't simple, it's tough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mzo

Assmunch, that's what I'm saying. They CAN'T. It's ILLEGAL to do so in a court house.

---

I didn't say it was legal. I was talking hypothetically to avoid the hypocricy in complaining about something that hates you, then going to them and supporting them when you need their help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

Adoption is always there as well. But I understand what you're saying. But there is also so many ways around that now sooo yeah :/ But you're right.

---

That's not his bloodline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

If I was a parent, and my kid was gay, I would be mad because I wouldnt be getting any grandchildren. If its my only kid, then my bloodline, which stretches back how fucking long, ends there. It fucking sucks. Theres not a whole lot I would be able to do about it but I would still be pissed.

---

Wow, you're vain. :)

Could you explain the need to carry last names and bloodlines, by the way? Because I don't get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

Homosexuality is just love felt for the same gender, or physical attraction

---

Don't forget pansexuality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew

I didn't say it was legal. I was talking hypothetically to avoid the hypocricy in complaining about something that hates you, then going to them and supporting them when you need their help.

---

I dont believe you, liar.

Quote:

---

God already judged gays and condemned them. Do I judge gays? No. Like I said, I don't care about gays. I would just as soon be friends with a cool gay guy then a lame straight guy. But as the same time emotion is intangible and skin colour isn't.

Living life isn't being married. Most would say being married is life after death.

---

I understand that you don't actually feel the same way, you're just defending it with the truth and that's what I'm glad to hear. And you've just added another point as to why I denounce myself as a catholic (I had never actually read about gays being condemned, I just knew it was in there). But anyways, it's still something that they can't necessarilly control.

The Christian god is supposed to be loving right? Forgive me if I missed in the bible where it says "We're god's toys to be messed around with for his own pleasure."

Quote:

---

You don't forgive a murderer who hasn't changed their ways and goes back out and murders someone. So according to you all murderers should be set free because it's just like murdering someone, no wait that's the bible... only the Bible's commandment says thou shall not kill.

---

True, but on another note, they chose to murder people, homosexuals don't chose persay to love people of their own gender. Love is blind.

Quote:

---

I think you're boiling religion down a little bit. Religion isn't simple, it's tough.

---

And it's also very contradictory.

Quote:

---

That's not his bloodline.

---

Adoption, no, using a woman's donated egg, yes. (Or a man's donated sperm)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew

I think you're boiling religion down a little bit. Religion isn't simple, it's tough.

---

It's tough because it's irrational and demands the quiet and blind acceptance of many outdated and now useless traditions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

Adoption is always there as well. But I understand what you're saying. But there is also so many ways around that now sooo yeah :/ But you're right.

---

If my fag son adopts some poor kid from Cambodia or some shit, that kid isnt my grandchild.

Quote:

---

Could you explain the need to carry last names and bloodlines, by the way? Because I don't get it.

---

There's something intrinsically awesome about putting all the sweat and tears into raising a child and seeing that child raise more. Raising a child really is one's life work (because, hey, everything else is material and will be forgotten) and seeing it all come around again with your own child is a good way of showing that your life's work is complete.

Quote:

---

The Christian god is supposed to be loving right? Forgive me if I missed in the bible where it says "We're god's toys to be messed around with for his own pleasure."

---

God doesnt condemn anyone anymore. That is Old Testament stuff. With Jesus' death we got the right to live our lives as we please, as wicked or as good as one wants (and, by definition, "wicked" and "good" correlate to how we live our life by God's teachings). So homosexuals have the right to do whatever they want nowadays, and God wont condemn them until the judgement. However, that doesnt mean that their actions are a-okay.

God will welcome people back into the flock who choose to live a good life, at any time, though. At the same time, the point is not to abandon them when they do stray, but to show them the way and hopefully they will be brought back through his love.

But its not like God says, "well I love you even though youre a murderer, or gay, or Michael Jackson, so keep doing whatever you want". Thats not the case at all. The point is that God continues to love you so that you may change your ways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

I understand that you don't actually feel the same way, you're just defending it with the truth and that's what I'm glad to hear. And you've just added another point as to why I denounce myself as a catholic (I had never actually read about gays being condemned, I just knew it was in there). But anyways, it's still something that they can't necessarilly control.

The Christian god is supposed to be loving right? Forgive me if I missed in the bible where it says "We're god's toys to be messed around with for his own pleasure."

---

No. The Christian god is not simple. That's why saying he's loving and forgiving is a myth. He's loving and forgiving in the right circumstances. If you disobey his law, then he is the coldest judge in existance. When they talk about having a relationship with God they speak of him as an actual person. They think of him as Bill down the street. Bill isn't always fair, and he's not always forgiving but he can be given the situation.

I'm not hugely religious but I have gone to Church a lot. That's why I said you're boiling it down too much. You want God to be forgiving yet when someone disobeys what he said people sit there and scratch their head as to why the Church is upset.

Here's the bottom line: You can't be religious and gay. It's a sin. If you want to be gay you have to forget religion because it works against you. People who are religious are not going to accept homosexuality. Don't expect them to, it's their way and law.

I am not religious. I believe in God.

Quote:

---

True, but on another note, they chose to murder people, homosexuals don't chose persay to love people of their own gender. Love is blind.

---

Not according to the Bible. In the Bible God made Eve to love Adam. That is how he intended. I bet you he didn't see this glaring omittion of a loop hole, or maybe he did!?!?! IT'S A CONSPIRACY.

Quote:

---

Adoption, no, using a woman's donated egg, yes. (Or a man's donated sperm)

---

Isn't that artificial insemination and not adoption?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew

So religion isn't a reason and should be disregarded yet you want to use a religious building and ceremony as the means to bind two people together? Hypocritical.

---

A civil union, which can be granted to homosexuals (to my knowledge)has none or very few of the legal benefits of a recognized marriage. Legal rights such as court privileges for use in trial and other things along those lines are not federally recognized for civilly joined couples.

It doesn't need to be a religious thing, but they should be able to qualify for the same rights as heterosexual couples, is more of the point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mzo

It's tough because it's irrational and demands the quiet and blind acceptance of many outdated and now useless traditions.

---

That and you have to get up early on Sunday when you've been out drinking on Saturday night. Oh and just because society says something is 'outdated' doesn't mean they're right. According to the Bible, very few people will be going to heaven. It's easier to be sinful, and often way more fun. So... that is exactly what the Bible is saying about us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nomi

A civil union, which can be granted to homosexuals (to my knowledge)has none or very few of the legal benefits of a recognized marriage. Legal rights such as court privileges for use in trial and other things along those lines are not federally recognized for civilly joined couples.

It doesn't need to be a religious thing, but they should be able to qualify for the same rights as heterosexual couples, is more of the point.

---

That's not hypocritical. That's was my point in bringing up the judge. if they want to be together, it doesn't have to be called marriage since that is already defined pretty accurately. They'd need to have a new definition in order to avoid religion.

Quote:

---

No. The Christian god is not simple. That's why saying he's loving and forgiving is a myth. He's loving and forgiving in the right circumstances. If you disobey his law, then he is the coldest judge in existance. When they talk about having a relationship with God they speak of him as an actual person. They think of him as Bill down the street. Bill isn't always fair, and he's not always forgiving but he can be given the situation.

I'm not hugely religious but I have gone to Church a lot. That's why I said you're boiling it down too much. You want God to be forgiving yet when someone disobeys what he said people sit there and scratch their head as to why the Church is upset.

Here's the bottom line: You can't be religious and gay. It's a sin. If you want to be gay you have to forget religion because it works against you. People who are religious are not going to accept homosexuality. Don't expect them to, it's their way and law.

---

That was just the idea of god I was always and taught. You know, from the 10 years of my youth that I vaguely paid attention. So yes, I am probably boiling it down too much. I think I may actually go attempt to read the bible some time to find an answer because of this... buuuttt.. probably not.

Quote:

---

Not according to the Bible. In the Bible God made Eve to love Adam. That is how he intended. I bet you he didn't see this glaring omittion of a loop hole, or maybe he did!?!?! IT'S A CONSPIRACY.

---

Exactly. If I wanted to be an ass I would say that god created homosexuality so he had someone to persecute. But That would be a bit much.

Quote:

---

But there is also so many ways around that now

---

And that should be an are instead of is.

Quote:

---

Here's the bottom line: You can't be religious and gay. It's a sin. If you want to be gay you have to forget religion because it works against you. People who are religious are not going to accept homosexuality. Don't expect them to, it's their way and law.

---

It's not that I expect them too, it's that I think it's wrong and from what I was taught found it to be contradictory to everything I've learned. I know I can't change them, at least all of them, but some people within do change.

My main bottom line is: Gays deserve all the rights and benefits of marriage everyone else gets.

I've just lost respect for most parents now days because; they want their child to be the way they want, alright. They teach them morals and how to behave. Then the child is different and because they're not exactly as the parent wanted them, they hate em. That's a general thing I've noticed, Parents should love their children almost no matter what... killing sprees are a reason to not like your child.

And that's not to say that some kids aren't going out of line with their being different mind you.

God already CONDEMNED them?! And you don't judge homosexuals...right... Also, I'm relatively religious and I have no problems at all with homosexuals, what people choose to do with their lives is their business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nomi

A civil union, which can be granted to homosexuals (to my knowledge)has none or very few of the legal benefits of a recognized marriage. Legal rights such as court privileges for use in trial and other things along those lines are not federally recognized for civilly joined couples.

It doesn't need to be a religious thing, but they should be able to qualify for the same rights as heterosexual couples, is more of the point.

---

NightWolve is the only person to have given me a straight answer to the following:

Why can't we just take the government out of marriage and let the churches decide who to marry and who not to? Then just give all the benefits of marriage to a legally sanctioned union.

His answer, and I'm not trying to disparage him here, was "Well, then they win." Which is fine: he's entitled to whatever opinion he wants. At least he was honest. Everyone else tries to BS about raising children and other choices that people make which the government also shouldn't have a hand in.

As for this thread, I think you're be a little too reactionary, TS.

Quote:

---

Why can't we just take the government out of marriage and let the churches decide who to marry and who not to? Then just give all the benefits of marriage to a legally sanctioned union.

---

Being married entitles people to legal (under the law, the state) benefits, rights, and responsibilities. If we give churches/mosques/synagogues the right to decide who is married and who is not, and then entitle those people married from the church those legal benefits...

so... the church/synagogue/mosque decides who gets legal benefits.

You dont see the problem with this? In this day and age of "seperation of church and state"? Come on.

Quote:

---

My main bottom line is: Gays deserve all the rights and benefits of marriage everyone else gets.

---

And as of this moment, they do have those rights. They can marry someone of the opposite sex. Just like everyone else. Sorry, but youre saying they should get new rights, the right to marry someone of the same sex. Thats all well and good, but dont pose it like, "teh gubment wants to set gays on fire" type of thing. No discrimination is taking place.

I posed an analogy in another thread. Alcohol is legal. Crack is not. Lets say I preferred crack, and I got together with a lot of people who preferred crack to alcohol and said, "We dont have the rights of alcohol users. We demand the right to smoke crack." Ultimately, thats a fallacious argument, because the crack users have the right to drink alcohol, too. And the alcohol users dont have the right to smoke crack. So, they have the same rights as the alcohol users. They just prefer crack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew

Here's the bottom line: You can't be religious and gay. It's a sin. If you want to be gay you have to forget religion because it works against you. People who are religious are not going to accept homosexuality. Don't expect them to, it's their way and law.

I am not religious.

---

Signatures here! Get em while they're hot!

Quote:

---

As for this thread, I think you're be a little too reactionary, TS

---

Not sure what you mean exactly...

But my main purpose of this thread was for me to throw out a one track minded thought and hoping to see some other views. This had just pissed me off because of the events of my day, and I hoped maybe this would calm me down. In which it has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

Being married entitles people to legal (under the law, the state) benefits, rights, and responsibilities. If we give churches/mosques/synagogues the right to decide who is married and who is not, and then entitle those people married from the church those legal benefits...

so... the church/synagogue/mosque decides who gets legal benefits.

You dont see the problem with this? In this day and age of "seperation of church and state"? Come on.

---

Did you mis-read what I wrote?

Marriage would be entirely religious, there would be no legal implications. The legal union would be as simple as going to the town hall or whatever, getting the license, and having the justice of the peace or even a notary make it official. From that point, the two people involved could go to the Universal Life Church for all I care. Then they can waste money on a wedding, reception, catering, etc. Or they can do that without the legal recognition.

All I know is that at some point in my life I will probably want to join with my girl legally. The only motivation for me to do that, however, would be the benefits of such a union. I don't care about the ceremony or anything like that. If there were no benefits, I wouldn't get "married," since I'm perfectly content living with someone I love.

I'll say this upfront, I don't hate homosexuals but I am in big disagreement with their lifestyle. I won't go up to a guy who is homosexual and say "You shouldn't be gay because blah blah blah" unless he wants to hear my explination, I hardly ever argue unless it's mutual. I am a Christian who tries to live his life as such and I would say that is one of the prime reasons I disagree with homosexuality. All four major religions in the world (Christianity, Islam, Judiasm and Hinduism, not including Buddhism because I don't consider it a religion, I consider it a philosphy of life) condemn it. Somebody who is true Christian will love that person and treat him as he was any other person so that's the way I look at it. If I looked at it from an athiest or evolutionist perspective I would still disagree with it because it does not fit human nature and the need to continue the species. I am a firm believer that you make yourself, you are not born any specific way because you have the power to change the way you think and act, it just takes a lot of self discipline and dedication. God judges these people but homosexuality isn't any worse of sin then adultry or fornification. If a person is homosexual and they are a Christian and die as a homosexual then God will still welcome them into the gates of heaven.

The argument that it doesn't "affect you" doesn't sit with me either. It does affect me because it's my country and my culture that it influences, I love my country and there is few other places I would want to live and I fight for what I think is best for my country and my culture. Protecting the "sanctity of marriage" argument is a bit flat though because our country is so fucked up in that aspect it's not funny. And just to throw in at the end, gays do have the same rights as straight people. Straight people don't have the right to marry someone of the same sex and neither do gays, we both have the same right to marry someone of an opposite sex, this isn't an ethnic background we're talking about, something that can't be changed, it's a lifestyle choice.

I would go as far to say that I hate homosexuality but I do not hate homosexuals, nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes so why treat homosexuals any different?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

But my main purpose of this thread was for me to throw out a one track minded thought and hoping to see some other views. This had just pissed me off because of the events of my day, and I hoped maybe this would calm me down. In which it has.

---

Mazel Tov, then, buddy. :)

Heh, your silly marriage/legal-union stuff is very Kerry-esque.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gohron

Straight people don't have the right to marry someone of the same sex and neither do gays, we both have the same right to marry someone of an opposite sex, this isn't an ethnic background we're talking about, something that can't be changed, it's a lifestyle choice.

---

Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike

Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice?

---

I think it's more of an odd chemical reaction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

Heh, your silly marriage/legal-union stuff is very Kerry-esque.

---

Not to sound like Almaci, but you didn't address what I said. I could care less if my idea sounds like Kerry's plan. If it does, even more reason for me to vote for him because it's common sense.

Quote:

---

Straight people don't have the right to marry someone of the same sex and neither do gays, we both have the same right to marry someone of an opposite sex, this isn't an ethnic background we're talking about, something that can't be changed, it's a lifestyle choice.

---

ALright alright so my comparing it to skin color is offbase, but it's still not completely a choice. They don't wake up one day and say "I'm gonna be homosexual!" It's a feeling of attraction, and if it's love then there is nothing they can do about it that wouldn't be unnecesarilly hurting themselves. It's a choice based off something you can't change, something that if you HAD to ignore, would probably cause you're life to be miserable. And by choice I mean, "Will I be true to myself, or hide in a closet because people will look at me different"

The way I look at it, I don't believe the "you're born like that" argument about anything unless it's something like retardation or a physical defect. I explained this in my original post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mzo

I think it's more of an odd chemical reaction.

---

I thought it was a disease.

A disease that can only be cured by fire.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

They don't wake up one day and say "I'm gonna be homosexual!" It's a feeling of attraction, and if it's love then there is nothing they can do about it that wouldn't be unnecesarilly hurting themselves.

---

You mean like Ann Heche?

In any case, whatever you want to say, nobody is being discriminated at the present time wrt marriage.

Quote:

---

Not to sound like Almaci, but you didn't address what I said. I could care less if my idea sounds like Kerry's plan. If it does, even more reason for me to vote for him because it's common sense.

---

Yea, because its a huge, long, boring, and loaded question. NightWolve actually has a good link on the topic that answers many things, go hit him up in IRC or something and he will show you. Id rather defer to that than go any further. And plus, gays have pretty much scoffed at Kerry's proposal. They want the whole 100%.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gohron

The way I look at it, I don't believe the "you're born like that" argument about anything unless it's something like retardation or a physical defect. I explained this in my original post.

---

Wait, wait.

So you were raised to like girls? And if a gay couple raised you, there'd be a greater chance that you'd like boys? Is that what you're saying?

No, I'm saying you are responsible for your own thoughts and desires and with enough self discipline and dedication I believe you can change these things, when I was younger I was dealing with a bunch of bullshit going through my head, I fought it and completely changed the way I looked at life and myself without any help.

I may be going a little offbase here but saying "you're born gay" is like saying "Hitler was born an evil mother fucker".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gohron

No, I'm saying you are responsible for your own thoughts and desires and with enough self discipline and dedication I believe you can change these things,

---

LOL. Gay isn't an addiction! Maybe you can fool yourself or lie really well like McGreevy, but I mean, you can't just talk yourself out of being gay.

EDIT: You can also be really confused - a buddy of mine thought he was gay, but then it turned out that he's really pansexual.

Quote:

---

I may be going a little offbase here but saying "you're born gay" is like saying "Hitler was born an evil mother fucker".

---

Evil is a label applied to crazy people who think they're doing the right thing. Hitler was motivated by many things, but I doubt "I want to be eeeeeevil! MUWA HA HAHAHA!" was on his mind.

Wait... someone said that they're born gay? I missed that, because that'd be the same thing as saying I was born a teenager.

I am not homosexual in any way shape or form, and most the things I have said are based upon other's feelings. I do not know how it feels but I imagine it's the same as every heterosexual love. Even when it's not love it's still probably as strong, I honestly cannot get attracted to guys even if I tried. I won't try because; this is who I am it's what I feel and I don't think even if I tried I could change it.

Plus, if it makes them happy I don't see them wanting to change, just because it's not accepted. And People shouldn't expect them to change; or try and force them to change; or even just beat them up for it. Same thing with the idea of me trying to change christians from their beliefs (not saying I do) only difference is that's a belief, and not necessarily a feeling. Not to say that faith itself isn't a powerful feeling that can be hard to shake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike

LOL. Gay isn't an addiction! Maybe you can fool yourself or lie really well like McGreevy, but I mean, you can't just talk yourself out of being gay.

---

I wasn't refferring to an addiction or something like that. I won't bring up some of my own examples of what I mentioned above because they're pretty personal but I stand by my statement.

Quote:

---

Same thing with the idea of me trying to change christians from their beliefs (not saying I do) only difference is that's a belief, and not necessarily a feeling.

---

Heh. Like my mom would always say when I didnt feel like doing anything, "feelings come and go". And they do. Seriously.

Like lets say we use the argument that a lot of gays like to use for gay marriage, "that they want the right to marry the person they love". Well, straight people do that now. All the time.

They feel love for the other person.

yet the divorce rate in the US is hovering around 50% right now.

So whats going on? Theres more important things in the world than love. Love does not conquer all.

Spoken like a true miserable asshole

OK, come on, we're not 5 years old anymore. What makes you attracted to another person? Your soul? Your heart?

No. Hormones. Chemical reactions in your brain. The instict to reproduce. I know why things work the way they do, and I believe the system is not perfect. People can be born different; people can be born gay.

Not to say there aren't stupid whores out there who want to be lesbians because they're sluts, but hey.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dave is ok

Spoken like a true miserable asshole

---

Spoken like someone completely pussy-whipped by their gf =P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

Heh. Like my mom would always say when I didnt feel like doing anything, "feelings come and go". And they do. Seriously.

Like lets say we use the argument that a lot of gays like to use for gay marriage, "that they want the right to marry the person they love". Well, straight people do that now. All the time.

They feel love for the other person.

yet the divorce rate in the US is hovering around 50% right now.

So whats going on? Theres more important things in the world than love. Love does not conquer all.

---

I don't know if you were trying to bring up and then dismiss your argument, but the reason divorce is so high (I thought it was more than 50%) is BECAUSE straight people AREN'T marrying for love. They get married because they had a kid, because they mistake some other feeling for love, or because they feel they NEED to get married quickly.

EDIT: One of my buddies is getting married in a few months. First girlfriend, lost his virginity to her, they met on the internet. Not to jinx him, but do you REALLY think that's going to last once he realizes he got married too young?

I think (no numbers here, obviously) that most of the gay couples truly concerned about marrying probably really DO love one another and their marriages probably would last.

I wholly agree with the bolded part. Love is not the be-all-end-all of life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dave is ok

Spoken like a true miserable asshole

---

Hey man, Im all for marriage and love but theres a lot more to a good marriage or relationship than love. I think a lot of people are fooled by the media today into thinking of this sort of romantic notion of what love is, from what they see on TV and in movies, but in reality maintaining a relationship is a lot of hard work more than anything else. And that is why there is so much divorce in this country, because people cut and run as soon as things get tough.

Arranged marriages in places like India have a very low divorce rate. Think about that for a second.

Honestly, you think that will be different if gay people started marrying each other? Hell no. Same shit. Same exact shit. In fact, I bet the people that would benefit most from this sort of thing would be the fucking divorce lawyers. So maybe my opinion will change if I go to law school. ^__^

Quote:

---

I don't know if you were trying to bring up and then dismiss your argument, but the reason divorce is so high (I thought it was more than 50%) is BECAUSE straight people AREN'T marrying for love. They get married because they had a kid, because they mistake some other feeling for love, or because they feel they NEED to get married quickly.

---

I recently met someone who got married a week after she turned 18. Do I think the marriage will last? Hell no. Theyre in rocky straits already. But the fact is that she claims she loves him a great deal. So what do you say to that? Honestly, I just think people get confused, because of (A) what the media says is love, and (B) emotions like lust and attraction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

And as of this moment, they do have those rights. They can marry someone of the opposite sex. Just like everyone else. Sorry, but youre saying they should get new rights, the right to marry someone of the same sex. Thats all well and good, but dont pose it like, "teh gubment wants to set gays on fire" type of thing. No discrimination is taking place.

I posed an analogy in another thread. Alcohol is legal. Crack is not. Lets say I preferred crack, and I got together with a lot of people who preferred crack to alcohol and said, "We dont have the rights of alcohol users. We demand the right to smoke crack." Ultimately, thats a fallacious argument, because the crack users have the right to drink alcohol, too. And the alcohol users dont have the right to smoke crack. So, they have the same rights as the alcohol users. They just prefer crack.

---

Your analogy is really stupid and coming from a jackass like you its not suprising. First off, the fact that it is illegal to marry someone of the same sex is just rediculous and moronic. It should have never been made a law in the first place, therfore it should be a right had by everyone. And just because it isn't a right for everyone doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Times and ideas change. Take the civil rights movement. African Americans had no civil rights because thats the way things were for a long ass time, and hell slavery was even justified by the bible. But any idiot would know that just because thats the way things were and the bible could be used to justify it didn't make it right. Who gives a rats ass if it has been a law that gays can't be married and that gays are looked down upon in the bible. This is the 21st fuckin century. For fuck sakes people, we need to be more open minded. If you don't like how people think or act good for you, but don't stop that person from thinking that way (obviosly if the person is a murderer or rapist then they do need to be stopped).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

I'm tired of hearing people talk about how much they hate it without giving me a single legitimate reason as to WHY homosexuality is wrong.

---

I do not think gays are wrong, per se. Do as ya wish. But I do think it is not at all natural.

Homosexuality is counter-productive to the proliferation of the species.

Sure there are exceptions. Such as the very few cases where gays will force themselves to have sex, just for the sake of procreation. However, this is by far the exception to the rule.

The question of homosexuality has been around for a long time. Look no further than the ancient Greeks. This book actually has a chapter about Socrates and a bunch of other philosophers sat around discussin the gay.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

It was thought that an army of homosexuals would be unstoppable, because the men cared so much for each other, that they wouldn't let each other die in battle.

We really should accomodate people in our legal system that do not wish to be married. Married couples DO get benefits that non-married couples do not. I do think marraige should be left as a religious ceremony. However, there should be an alternative that gives homos' the same legal benefits. Just don't call it marraige.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JefmcC

Homosexuality is counter-productive to the proliferation of the species.

---

So is birth control.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarkCrow676

Your analogy is really stupid and coming from a jackass like you its not suprising. First off, the fact that it is illegal to marry someone of the same sex is just rediculous and moronic. It should have never been made a law in the first place, therfore it should be a right had by everyone. And just because it isn't a right for everyone doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Times and ideas change. Take the civil rights movement. African Americans had no civil rights because thats the way things were for a long ass time, and hell slavery was even justified by the bible. But any idiot would know that just because thats the way things were and the bible could be used to justify it didn't make it right. Who gives a rats ass if it has been a law that gays can't be married and that gays are looked down upon in the bible. This is the 21st fuckin century. For fuck sakes people, we need to be more open minded. If you don't like how people think or act good for you, but don't stop that person from thinking that way (obviosly if the person is a murderer or rapist then they do need to be stopped).

---

OVERREACTION ALERT! Calm down, dude. No name-calling, and lay off the swears. Stick to rational discussion, please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MVS

So is birth control.

---

Fair enough, but so is a shovel to the head. :bang:

If people are "born gay", and not attracted to the opposite sex, then I don't see them having a lot of kids.

Birth control is a choice, you aren't born that way.

I don't know if gays are born that way, but I know someone (gay) that wrote a paper about it. He bascially said, why would anyone choose to be this way?
For him, he thinks he was just born that way. But, he was also sexually abused by his family as a child. That may have something to do with it? I don't know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gohron

I would go as far to say that I hate homosexuality but I do not hate homosexuals, nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes so why treat homosexuals any different?

---

This comment makes no sense, if you hate the "lifestyle" then you hate the people living that lifestyle.

Oh well, you're doomed to eternal damnation anyway, you played Doom3 and thats a much greater sin in the eyes of god.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JefmcC

We really should accomodate people in our legal system that do not wish to be married. Married couples DO get benefits that non-married couples do not. I do think marraige should be left as a religious ceremony. However, there should be an alternative that gives homos' the same legal benefits. Just don't call it marraige.

---

IAWTP


As for love being key to keeping marriages together, that is a joke. India has a far higher success rate for arranged marriages, my parents and relatives have all been arranged marriages and not a single one of my relatives ever been divorced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jed

Oh well, you're doomed to eternal damnation anyway, you played Doom3 and thats a much greater sin in the eyes of god.

---

I'd like to elaborate on this.

I have a problem with id Software fans. Their support of Doom 3 encourages id to continue corrupting the sanctity of game design. That is a lifestyle choice I cannot accept.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jed

This comment makes no sense, if you hate the "lifestyle" then you hate the people living that lifestyle.

Oh well, you're doomed to eternal damnation anyway, you played Doom3 and thats a much greater sin in the eyes of god.

---

Because as christians we aren't supposed to judge others, love your enemy and leave the judgements to God.

That's all well and good, but what happens when they see two gay men holding hands and they start getting an uncomfortable tingling in the genitals? What is God going to do about that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damian79

Because as christians we aren't supposed to judge others, love your enemy and leave the judgements to God.

---

Exactly. Why think for yourself or try to get through hard times on your own? It's so much easier being lazy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mfkzt

That's all well and good, but what happens when they see two gay men holding hands and they start getting an uncomfortable tingling in the genitals? What is God going to do about that?

---

Send them to hell. So it works out. If there is no god, they don't lose anything. If there is, they go to hell.

Christians aren't supposed to bother them with hate, just avoid or ignore them doing said things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damian79

Because as christians we aren't supposed to judge others, love your enemy and leave the judgements to God.

---

Speak for yourself buddy, I'm not christian, so I can judge anybody I damn well please. Heres my judgement - Religious zealots who hate other people for having lifestyles contradictory to their religious beliefs deserve to burn in whatever dumbass version of hell they believe in.

Quote:

---

That's all well and good, but what happens when they see two gay men holding hands and they start getting an uncomfortable tingling in the genitals? What is God going to do about that?

---

I can't even understand what you're saying. an uncomfortable tingling in your genitals while watching two gay men holding hands? What so you suddenly become gay yourself? What are you saying.

Oh so here comes a point to religion: This way while a woman has been raped, is pregnant, in poverty, and miserable... least she knows that after a life time of suffering, she'll get to witness the guy who raped in her in hell.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jed

Speak for yourself buddy, I'm not christian, so I can judge anybody I damn well please. Heres my judgement - Religious zealots who hate other people for having lifestyles contradictory to their religious beliefs deserve to burn in whatever dumbass version of hell they believe in.

---

Did I say you were christian? And that is your business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damian79

Did I say you were christian? And that is your business.

---

No you didn't say I was christian, you just implied it with the "we" aren't supposed to pass judgement remark. I just think its fucked when people use religion as a reason to HATE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jed

No you didn't say I was christian, you just implied it with the "we" aren't supposed to pass judgement remark. I just think its fucked when people use religion as a reason to HATE.

---

Yeah I should have used "they" as I am not technically a christian either. My bad. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jed

No you didn't say I was christian, you just implied it with the "we" aren't supposed to pass judgement remark. I just think its fucked when people use religion as a reason to HATE.

---

When they are doing it, it is certainly not keeping with the spirit of Christianity, and its certainly not tolerated by the religion at large.

And if anyone tries to say that, "well if people using religion for hate is not tolerated by the religion at large, then why are they so against gay marriage", then I will say:

01. Not supporting gay marriage != hating gay people.
02. Check out what I wrote before on God & love. There is nothing in the bible that says living a good, Godly life and being homosexual are inclusive. So religious people can not want to tolerate it, and they can not want it to become accepted in their communities, and thats also not the same as hate.

I guess some idiot Christians really do hate homosexuals, but that definitely doesnt make them good ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike

Could you explain the need to carry last names and bloodlines, by the way? Because I don't get it.

---

Immortality.


And to elaborate on the religious aspect:

Marriage should be based on love not physical properties.

The same book (Leviticus) that denounces homosexuality in the Holy Bible also condemns eating shell fish, keeping cattle in the same field as other livestock, and women attending church or even leaving the house while menstruating.

I don't have a source to quote from, but from the primitive times, I believe these laws were set in place for health purposes. Today, there is no need for women to stay home in order to keep "clean." And there are vaccinations to prevent livestock from infecting one another and shellfish poisoning us.

Also, this book only applies to Jews. Jesus, whom Christians practice the teachings of, is quoted in the Gospels as arguing the ignorance of many practices in this book (and it's brother Deuteronomy). He spoke against the exclusions of women and lepers from the church, execution for such offence and so on.


Not once in the gospels do they quote him as forbidding homosexuality.

However... he does speak against fornication.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike

Exactly. Why think for yourself or try to get through hard times on your own? It's so much easier being lazy.

---

Oh yeah, God swooped down the other day and gave me a fat Christian check for 30K. I didnt have to do nothin.

In all reality though, why is judging gay people supposed to be high on a Christians list of things to do? Sometimes things would be better off if people would be a bit better to each other

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anomaly

Immortality.

---

Did you mean to prove that it's selfish? :)

Who want's to die?


...seriously?

Let me rephrase that, who want's to be forgotten?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anomaly

Who want's to die?


...seriously?

---

Nobody, but it's not preventable. If it was, that'd be nuts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

01. Not supporting gay marriage != hating gay people.
02. Check out what I wrote before on God & love. There is nothing in the bible that says living a good, Godly life and being homosexual are inclusive. So religious people can not want to tolerate it, and they can not want it to become accepted in their communities, and thats also not the same as hate.

---

Diff speaks so much truth that rutabegas pour from my ears.
Catholicism states that only homosexual sex acts are sinnery. Gay people aren't "evil" or "not loved by God" like the Bible belt always shouts.
I, for one, don't understand it at all. The parts don't fit and there are no gender-change adapters for DB9 penises. I could go on for longer, but I'm a bit tired of debating issues like this because of my stupid Human Sexuality course that my college forces me to take. Buncha friggin' morons go spoutin' opinions like they're teaching me truth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anomaly

The same book (Leviticus) that denounces homosexuality in the Holy Bible also condemns eating shell fish, keeping cattle in the same field as other livestock, and women attending church or even leaving the house while menstruating.

---

The context is pretty clear though. Different portions of leveticus. The parts which say that homosexuality is wrong, talks about sexual acts like buggery, incest etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

racism. Why? Because it's the EXACT SAME! Yes, people of different races had no control over what race they were born. But it's come to my attention that homosexuality is the feeling of love, which as most people with half a brain know, is something you cannot control.

---

Just to point something out here. There is no conclusive scientific evidence that homosexuality is based in genetic makeup. If it were, every set of identical twins would be gay where one of them was gay. Unless there is some sort of strange mutation, in which case I doubt that 10% of the general population would facilitate such a mutation. Not that this excuses the people who persecute them, there is no justistification for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

I am sick and tired of it, I'm tired of parents hating their children because they're homosexual. I'm tired of hearing people talk about how much they hate it without giving me a single legitimate reason as to WHY homosexuality is wrong. I have heard "Because it's in the bible", "It's disgusting", let me tell you THAT IS NOT A REASON.

Homosexuality is just love felt for the same gender, or physical attraction, if you're a homophobe I feel that you have no right to ever complain about racism. Why? Because it's the EXACT SAME! Yes, people of different races had no control over what race they were born. But it's come to my attention that homosexuality is the feeling of love, which as most people with half a brain know, is something you cannot control.

There is no reason; that children should have to fear admitting this to their parents. There is no reason; for a child to be grounded for over a year because they are bisexual. None. Not. A single legitimate reason, if there is one I ask someone PM me that so I know that my harsh offense has a flaw in it. Because I fail to see the problem, and why people are against gay marriages. It doesn't hurt anyone, though finding a church to marry them may be difficult, the government should give them the same rights as it does to other people.

Yeah, I'm in a pissy mood (It was much more.. violent in my head v.v) if someone has a reason that homosexuals do something wrong, by all means pm it to me. I don't think much less of people who hate homosexuals, but I do think less of people who abuse them in any way, and who think homosexuals are lower than them.

---

if you fell that way, why dont you go pack some fudge faggit lover.!!

I skipped mostly everything written on here. But I'll tell you where I stand.

Growing up my friends and family made gays the butt of jokes. Once I was old enough to understand what gay was I was pretty sick in the stomach. Still kinda do to me it dosen't make sense. While growing up I ended up meeting and actually even knowing gay people all along and didn't realize it.

What I'm getting at is that they are (mostly) kool people and never had a problem with one. Thus I never went out of my way to call names and redicule though I do have a habbit of calling things that suck or I don't like gay. Oh well no offense though.

I'm pretty in different, just to ask me to in the bedroom and do gay things thats where I draw the line.

1 thing I always wondered is why most they always let me know that they are gay... didn't ask and wasn't thiking about it so why tell me?

I love how in a good discussion you have dave is ok coming in trying to be clever with his responses. Give it a rest, nobody cares. Also, I was playing the devils advocate with Thief. As I said, I don't care about gays. Also, Jeremy seems to have a problem comprehending that the Bible has condemned homosexuals... it has. If you're gay the Bible disagrees with your lifestyle. It does, however, still love the person.

Whether or not you believe in Christianity is another matter altogether.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JefMcC

Homosexuality is counter-productive to the proliferation of the species.

---

The species needs to cut back on proliferation, anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damian79

As for love being key to keeping marriages together, that is a joke. India has a far higher success rate for arranged marriages, my parents and relatives have all been arranged marriages and not a single one of my relatives ever been divorced.

---

I think that has a lot more to do with a combination of divorce being much more frowned upon and women being much more subservient in that culture, so they simply endure it for the long haul, regardless of how unfulfilling it is to either party. It isn't really a great model to go on, I'm sure plenty of them hate their situation as much or more than people who get divorced here.

Quote:

---

Let me rephrase that, who want's to be forgotten?

---

If you don't want to be forgotten, write a great book, do great art, be a devoted missionary, work hard and found your own company, make your mark on the earth. Simply carrying on the bloodline doesn't make you remembered or well-known a fraction more than any of that, your memory will fade in a few generations and you'll be forgotten forever. I understand the impulse to be a nurturer, a provider, and all of that, but I don't see where it's any different whether you do it with your own seed or someone else's, it's still every bit as much a being you crafted, imparted wisdom upon, and unleashed upon the world.

There are so many kids in this world, in this country, that need the guidance of much better parents than they have, or don't have, that having your own kids is not a necessity and, really, almost neglectful towards the condition of the world at large. I know that having your own kids is preferable, of course, but... these kids are already here, they need direction, they need love, you know?

Wow, that wasn't like me at all. ^^;

We have a gay Rainbow Six Black Arrow Clan right here on TNL and no one seems to hate us, does this count for discussion? ;)

Your post would have been easy to understand had you made it clear you were posting your opinion instead of just reciting from the Bible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FPM

Just to point something out here. There is no conclusive scientific evidence that homosexuality is based in genetic makeup. If it were, every set of identical twins would be gay where one of them was gay. Unless there is some sort of strange mutation, in which case I doubt that 10% of the general population would facilitate such a mutation. Not that this excuses the people who persecute them, there is no justistification for that.

---

Twin Studies

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

The species needs to cut back on proliferation, anyways.

I think that has a lot more to do with a combination of divorce being much more frowned upon and women being much more subservient in that culture, so they simply endure it for the long haul, regardless of how unfulfilling it is to either party. It isn't really a great model to go on, I'm sure plenty of them hate their situation as much or more than people who get divorced here.

If you don't want to be forgotten, write a great book, do great art, be a devoted missionary, work hard and found your own company, make your mark on the earth. Simply carrying on the bloodline doesn't make you remembered or well-known a fraction more than any of that, your memory will fade in a few generations and you'll be forgotten forever. I understand the impulse to be a nurturer, a provider, and all of that, but I don't see where it's any different whether you do it with your own seed or someone else's, it's still every bit as much a being you crafted, imparted wisdom upon, and unleashed upon the world.

There are so many kids in this world, in this country, that need the guidance of much better parents than they have, or don't have, that having your own kids is not a necessity and, really, almost neglectful towards the condition of the world at large. I know that having your own kids is preferable, of course, but... these kids are already here, they need direction, they need love, you know?

Wow, that wasn't like me at all. ^^;

---

That was a great post. If that wasn't like you at all, you need to be less like you more often. ;)

There are so many kids in this world, in this country, that need the guidance of much better parents than they have, or don't have, that having your own kids is not a necessity and, really, almost neglectful towards the condition of the world at large.

Damn. That's correct on so many different levels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Your post would have been easy to understand had you made it clear you were posting your opinion instead of just reciting from the Bible.

---

Who the hell are you responding to?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anomaly

Twin Studies

---

Can you give a summary of that?

Quote:

---

There are so many kids in this world, in this country, that need the guidance of much better parents than they have, or don't have, that having your own kids is not a necessity and, really, almost neglectful towards the condition of the world at large.

---

Yes, because Im sure I can go to the ghetto and just pick up some kid and take him because his mom is on crack and his dad's in jail. And then when the cops find me Ill just say, "yea I could do better than his mom could", and thatll be that. Excellent.

If youre for adoption, then go down to the adoption office and get a kid. But the real fact is that having a child of your own, and child-rearing, is one of the fundamental things about being a human being. To say that having a child of your own is showing neglect or disdain on the condition of the world makes me laugh out loud at the sheer unadulterated idiocy of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jed

Speak for yourself buddy, I'm not christian, so I can judge anybody I damn well please. Heres my judgement - Religious zealots who hate other people for having lifestyles contradictory to their religious beliefs deserve to burn in whatever dumbass version of hell they believe in.

---

So you're hypocritical. You are doing to them what you say they shouldn't be doing to gays. Stop judging people on the basis of them judging people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Your post would have been easy to understand had you made it clear you were posting your opinion instead of just reciting from the Bible.

---

I didn't recite any lines from the Bible. I just said the jist of what's in there. You're not supposed to be gay, or judge people. You're supposed to be kind and loving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Best Poster Ever

I am not religious

---

If my opinion was that of the Bible I would be a religious person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike

Who the hell are you responding to?

---

He only seems to come into threads to start shit with me. So take a guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Damian79

Can you give a summary of that?

---

Quotes from the summary page.

"Recent studies have estimated the prevalence of predominant homosexuality in adult males of Western societies to be in the range of 2-8.%"

"Kallman obtained 85 male index cases who were predominantly or exclusively homosexual, members of a twinship, and over the age of 20. Of these 85 index cases, 40 were monozygotic* twins, and 45 were dizygotic* twins...

...For the dizygotic twins, Kallman found a concordance rate of 11.5% (3/26) for predominant homosexuality (Kinsey ratings 3-6), and 42.3% (11/26) for any homosexuality (Kinsey ratings 1-6)...

...For the monozygotic twins, a very different picture emerged. Of the 37 index cases whose cotwins were classified, all were concordant for homosexuality (Kinsey ratings 3-6); a concordance rate of 100%**."

"Bailey and Pillard's results suggested that homosexuality has a high component of heritability."

"From the data reviewed in this report, it seems reasonable to conclude that male homosexuality, or, at least, some 'types' of male homosexuality, are under some degree of genetic control, although various problems with this data prevent more precise conclusions from being drawn."

*dizygotic - fraternal
monozygotic - identical
** This seems a little high. The studies we reviewed in Pysch class pointed to 85-90% among identical twins seperated at birth sharing homosexuality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

But the real fact is that having a child of your own, and child-rearing, is one of the fundamental things about being a human being.

---

I guess I need to wait until I accidentally get someone pregnant who doesn't believe in abortion to find out about that. :noob:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffx

If youre for adoption, then go down to the adoption office and get a kid. But the real fact is that having a child of your own, and child-rearing, is one of the fundamental things about being a human being. To say that having a child of your own is showing neglect or disdain on the condition of the world makes me laugh out loud at the sheer unadulterated idiocy of it.

---

I know and agree that doing things the natural way is the preferable way, but there's too many kids in the world not getting the upbringing they should that you can just ignore it and hope it goes away, that you can say "tough, not my fault"... I'd like to agree with that, to a degree I do, but it will end up affecting you, through stupidity, through crime, through the culture it generates and perpetuates. Misguided, forgotten kids beget more of the same, we're already seeing the effects today and it will continue to get worse so long as no true parents put aside the semantics of their child neeeing to be so in a technical sense, in flesh and blood, and step up to the plate of just being a good parent for someone that needs it, to give the kids that are already here on this earth a good life instead of bringing more kids in and leaving the forgotten to wither.

I agree with "it's not my fault", it's not, but the buck can't be passed forever, the fact is that it's there and it's getting worse, and will continue to do so unless people start giving some real thought and action to it. Adoption's not the most popular choice for everyone, but it should be considered strongly when the parental urge descends upon you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anomaly

Twin Studies

---

Interesting read, but still cannot conclude that homosexuality is determined with genes. Only one of the three studies had a 100% concordance rate. One set of identical twins in which only one of them is gay can lead to a conclusion that homosexuality is not determined with genetics. I beleive that there could be a natural predisposition, but its still not the same thing as definitive as race.

Anomaly: Thanks for that. What about the later tests though? Why are the results so different?

Bacon, thats all well and good, but youre forgetting that a lot of kids have parents who just dont take care of them. There's not a whole hell of a lot anyone can do when they have a kid with parents who treat them like shit/dont raise them right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diffusionx

Bacon, thats all well and good, but youre forgetting that a lot of kids have parents who just dont take care of them. There's not a whole hell of a lot anyone can do when they have a kid with parents who treat them like shit/dont raise them right.

---

Hell, now that you brought this up, let me say that I saw a really disgusting thing whilest wandering the mall today.
There was this fat, disgusting woman looking through clothes on a rack outside of a store. Her kids were in a stroller next to her SCREAMING to the extent that I heard them at the opposite end and thought it was a security alarm. You could hear these kids throughout the ENTIRE MALL and this fat bitch is looking at clothes. I'll bet those kids'll grow up with their fair share of problems.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChaoofNee

Hell, now that you brought this up, let me say that I saw a really disgusting thing whilest wandering the mall today.
There was this fat, disgusting woman looking through clothes on a rack outside of a store. Her kids were in a stroller next to her SCREAMING to the extent that I heard them at the opposite end and thought it was a security alarm. You could hear these kids throughout the ENTIRE MALL and this fat bitch is looking at clothes. I'll bet those kids'll grow up with their fair share of problems.

---

I was in the supermarket last week in the produce section and this woman was walking with her kid and the kid was like, "Mommy, can I get one of those?" and pointed at an apple. She smacked the kid on the side of the head and said (angrily), "Shut up and be happy with your Tootsie Roll! Christ!"

The mother didn't even look to see what the kid was pointing at. It wasn't a Tootsie Roll, but it was some other candy bar the kid was walking with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike

I was in the supermarket last week in the produce section and this woman was walking with her kid and the kid was like, "Mommy, can I get one of those?" and pointed at an apple. She smacked the kid on the side of the head and said (angrily), "Shut up and be happy with your Tootsie Roll! Christ!"

The mother didn't even look to see what the kid was pointing at. It wasn't a Tootsie Roll, but it was some other candy bar the kid was walking with.

---

You used to see a lot more of that. When I was little it was very typical to see a big black momma and sometimes a white momma beating their baby or small kid in the grocery store for, get this, crying. They would smack the kid, then threaten it when it cried about it.

There really needs to be a chart in school to show kids about when to beat children if you must do so. Something like

Doing something very wrong, or morally bad = spanking to the ASS
Being annoying = warning, and perhaps not letting them do something they want later.

There are so many parents who screw their kids up by never beating them when they are bad, but when the child is annoying. What sort of moral code does that set?

My favorite line is the straight guys who say "Yo dude, I'm totally cool with gay guys, as long as they don't hit on me." Because you know us fags just go around hitting on every living being with a dick. I have just as many male friends as I do female, thank you. All of them are ugly. Ugly, ugly people. I would never hit on them. =]

Eh who cares, a complament is a complament. I draw the line at fealing me up and sticking your dick in my body.

This thread is interesting.

SO everyone is saying that who you are attracted to is a choice? Personally I'm attracted to brunettes with brown eyes. All of the girls I have dated have fallen into this category, and I never remember making this choice. It's simply always been that way. And before that I guess I had to make the choice to even go after vagina right? Had to have my parents tell me what I wanted to stick my dick into. Or had to wait until some significant time in my life where pussy proved to me it was the sexual organ to vote on.

Oh, and wait, if a group of people felt like this wasn't working out for you could you stop nailing Karen down the street and hop into bed with Billy because it was "acceptable"? Right.

Could I possibly say anything dumber?

Another thing I find funny is how much everyone cares who another person is having sex with. Again I'll use a personal event from my life. Theres a friend of mine that I've known for years, one of the core group I hang out with, and close to two years ago it came out that he was gay. I didn't care who the guy was sleeping with before, and I didn't after. And I'm no where near arrogant enough to think "OMG just because he wants teh cock he wants MY COCK!"

It's not a choice, and I feel that everyone should be allowed to live their lives, regardless of how uncomfortable it makes little Timmy feel. (OMG Timmy MIGHT see a gay couple out somewhere and at THAT EXACT moment he may not be able to turn his neck and look the other way. HIS NECK MIGHT STOP WORKING!)

Everyone needs to realize that this world doesn't conform to everything they agree with and also that when it's all said and done the fact that they hated and wanted something to end is never going to change anything.

Focus on your own life.