Politicians

Nowadays, its common knowledge that politicians are mostly corrupt, sleazy bastards with no virtue among them. Im reading a book now that has some quotes from James Madison, who was basically the writer of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

It says,

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Originally Posted by James Madison

I have observed that gentlemen suppose that the general legislature will do every mischief they possibly can, and that they will omit to do every good which they are authorized to do. If this were a reasonable supposition, their objections would be good. I consider it reasonable to conclude that they will as readily do their duty as deviate from it. Nor do I go on the grounds mentioned by gentlemen on the other side, that we are to place unlimited confidence in them, and expect nothing but the most exalted integrity and sublime virtue. But I go on this great republican principle, that the people will have virtue and intelligence to select men of virtue and wisdom. Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks, no form of government, can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men, so that we do not depend on their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them.

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Very interesting. James Madison would put a situation such as the one many of us feel we are in surely on our shoulders. And why not? We pick 'em. Of course, I know a lot of (mostly left-wing) folks would say its because the general populace of the US is too stupid, but of course that is nonsense. Simple statistical theory tells us that most people in the US are of average intelligence, and back in 1790, most people in the US were of average intelligence. Besides, anybody who is saying that is undoubtedly not referring to themselves or the people they are talking to. I cant count how many times Ive read "the people of the US are so stupid! Of course, if youre reading this, youre not one of them!". Michael Moore has said that a few times, especially in his books, which are all best-sellers. So how can his books be best-sellers if everyone in the US are stupid? Besides, simple math tells you that if one person thinks that everyone is stupid but them, and that gets repeated 150 million or so times, then nobody thinks they are stupid. So that whole "the US is full of idiots" argument goes out the window, right now.

So... what do you think? I think it might be because of the television, nowadays a politician can get elected on good looks and a flashy smile instead of ideas. From what Ive read, Abraham Lincoln was an ugly and awkward looking man, so maybe thats part of it.

I also think the US populace needs to, en masse, pick up the Constitution and the Federalist Papers and start reading them, so we actually see what it says and what its supposed to be, instead of what the ACLU or, for that matter, George Bush or John Kerry, want us to think it says.

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So... what do you think? I think it might be because of the television, nowadays a politician can get elected on good looks and a flashy smile instead of ideas. From what Ive read, Abraham Lincoln was an ugly and awkward looking man, so maybe thats part of it.

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Doesn't stray too far from what high school student government was like. This is applicable to people as a whole.

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Originally Posted by SearchManX

Doesn't stray too far from what high school student government was like. This is applicable to people as a whole.

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I was class president. :link:

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

I was class president. :link:

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A fat guy was our class president.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Nowadays, its common knowledge that politicians are mostly corrupt, sleazy bastards with no virtue among them.

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This news is bullshit.

The greatest sin politicians commit is in trying to fix problems that do not need fixing, or fixing problems in the wrong way. The vast majority of elected officials WANT THE BEST for their constituents (not least b/c it helps them get re-elected). They are not corrupt, they are not sleazy and they think themselves full of virtue. They certainly have good intentions.

The problem is that good intentions do not lead to good public policy.

Oh, and you're right that we've only ourselves to blame. Mostly b/c we expect government to save us from ourselves.

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Originally Posted by The_Meach

This news is bullshit.

The vast majority of elected officials WANT THE BEST for their constituents (not least b/c it helps them get re-elected).

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Even if they have to forsake a part of themselves for campaign contributions? Everyone has a price.

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Originally Posted by SearchManX

Even if they have to forsake a part of themselves for campaign contributions? Everyone has a price.

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How does a politician 'forake' himself by accepting campaign contributions from ppl with whom he shares beliefs?

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Originally Posted by SearchManX

Even if they have to forsake a part of themselves for campaign contributions? Everyone has a price.

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If Im from Iowa, and I accept campaign contributions from farm organizations and farm groups... well, hmm...

Now, that said, I think Fritz Hollins and friends who are getting massive amounts of money from the RIAA and MPAA to push garbage copyright law are not on the side of the public. However, its possible he agrees with them in principle, so really, there you go. But really people keep voting for them, so they must be doing something that the constituents like. It's the people's fault.

Like The_Meach said, good intentions doesnt mean good public policy. But I dont believe that every politician is like Bob Arnold from Springfield. Or even the majority.

I mean, James McGreevey did some bad shit (Bill Maher is an idiot that doesnt know the facts, he wasnt in trouble because he is gay, it was because he promoted an unqualified person to DHS in the state of NJ, and because sexual harassment charges were going to be filed), but car insurance in NJ is a lot lower than it used to be, the DMV got a complete overhaul, and the state is aggressively going after deadbeats and insurance fraud now. These are all real things, for the people of the state. To the point where I probably would've voted for him if he didnt do all that fucked up shit.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Nowadays, its common knowledge that politicians are mostly corrupt, sleazy bastards with no virtue among them. Im reading a book now that has some quotes from James Madison, who was basically the writer of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

It says,


Very interesting. James Madison would put a situation such as the one many of us feel we are in surely on our shoulders. And why not? We pick 'em. Of course, I know a lot of (mostly left-wing) folks would say its because the general populace of the US is too stupid, but of course that is nonsense. Simple statistical theory tells us that most people in the US are of average intelligence, and back in 1790, most people in the US were of average intelligence. Besides, anybody who is saying that is undoubtedly not referring to themselves or the people they are talking to. I cant count how many times Ive read "the people of the US are so stupid! Of course, if youre reading this, youre not one of them!". Michael Moore has said that a few times, especially in his books, which are all best-sellers. So how can his books be best-sellers if everyone in the US are stupid? Besides, simple math tells you that if one person thinks that everyone is stupid but them, and that gets repeated 150 million or so times, then nobody thinks they are stupid. So that whole "the US is full of idiots" argument goes out the window, right now.

So... what do you think? I think it might be because of the television, nowadays a politician can get elected on good looks and a flashy smile instead of ideas. From what Ive read, Abraham Lincoln was an ugly and awkward looking man, so maybe thats part of it.

I also think the US populace needs to, en masse, pick up the Constitution and the Federalist Papers and start reading them, so we actually see what it says and what its supposed to be, instead of what the ACLU or, for that matter, George Bush or John Kerry, want us to think it says.

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I've always been taut that average intelligence was pretty low and stupid. Average, or even a little bit better than average was never accepted or praised in my family. If everyone made a D and I made a C on a test, the excuse “well I did better than the average” did not save me from trouble.

It is understandable he would say something like that when you consider our family. He is a doctor along with his Dad before him. His dad helped opened clinics across Mississippi, and was also a cattle rancher, owned housing, and a land owner. My dad along with being a doctor, he majored in psychology.

The list goes on. My uncle Dwite became a Electrical Engineer, then went back after finding it boring and became a dentist. My dad’s sister finished a major in CS and later went back to become a lawyer who now workings in a high ranking part of the government. One of my great uncles was a Electrical engineer for NASA and did the wiring for the guidance systems before NASA went digital. The family is also full of lesser achievers, who usually fall short at just a dentist, doctor, or teacher.

Considering all of that, it is no wonder my dad told me that average intelligence was stupid. In comparison, most people never reach or try to reach those sorts of academic goals, esp in Mississippi. He was also probably saying it to help motivate me.


I do, however, think that the average intelligence of people, or at least the knowledge base of people is going down. People do not need to be as talented or know as much to get through life anymore. All you really need to know is how to do a service job these days, to get by. Service jobs, though nice, don’t really help make you smarter. I don’t think our society pushes for it’s people to be smart like it used to. Most people never reach their true potential.

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Originally Posted by dave is ok

I was class president. :link:

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Jesus H. Christ.