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First Magic Box brought us the amazing news of Kagero 2, but now, dissapointing news of a series that will be destroyed:
- SNK Playmore mentioned that they are planning to reveal new PSP titles at Tokyo Game Show, and the company is still researching on the Nintendo DS platform. In addition, SNK Playmore also plans to reveal a new 3D Metal Slug titles at Tokyo Game Show.
Why did they have to go and make a 3d Metal Slug game?
Because the 2d ones were getting old?
There, I said it.
It could still be good... 3D is getting better all the time so until I see some screen shots and play it, I will reserve judgment.
How will they do all of the stuff that they did in 3d? At least in terms of the backgrounds, and animation. One of the great things about Metal Slug is the hand drawn madness that few others could even come close to. I agree that 3d is gettng better, but I hope that the style of MS is kept; somehow.
Because so many older series got destroyed when moving to 3d.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrAnDX105
Like Metal Gear, and Legend of Zelda :rolleyes:
"series destroyed"?
Its fans like that which has allowed SNK to slip into their position of being one of the most boring, predictable developers today.
After five Metal Slugs, three of which were released very close to one another, SNK trying something different is a GOOD thing.
Don't forget that the last two were steps down from part 3, and well, putting the series into 3d might be a better prospect than another sub par 2d game we've all played and seen before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilykat
01. Metal Slug 4 and 5 were stupid, rehashed, shitty action games. The world doesnt need any more of that crap.Quote:
Why did they have to go and make a 3d Metal Slug game?
02. Technology is mature enough now that you can make a beautiful, cartoony-style 3D game without even touching cel-shading (which is fading into irrelevance, am I right?). Look at World of Warcraft if you dont believe me.
In any case, this is the SNK that is pushing THREE different KOF games this year alone. I doubt a 3D Metal Slug signals the end of 2D ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roufuss
and WoW doesnt even push a whole lot technically if you think about it. its all about the artists and their style that make the game look as good as it does. geometrically the game is nothing astounding. (in reference to diffx's post)
Didn't know everyone was hating on MS5 so much. I thought it was pretty damn good.
But I'll agree with you on 4. Goddamn.
As for a 3-D MS, I dunno. I guess only time will tell. It's dumb to say anything's been "wrecked" yet.
A version patterned after Strider 2's engine could be good with polygons for the large vehicles and backgrounds. Keep the soldiers and other animated characters as sprites but redraw them for 640x480. The thought of a "Metal Slug: Legacy of Bore" is nauseating.
Metal Slug 4 does not truly suck, but it is in fact a step down from MS3 ( a triple A game ). MS5 improves on 4 but still- it's no 3. Sure, the 2D ones may be getting a little old- but SNK Playmore has Atomiswave now for these. NOT Neo-Geo. They should be able to spice it up some with the new hardware.
I really don't want to see another great 2D game go the way of 3D and get ruined. Granted I've only playe MSX, but that game was great fun. If they just spice things up a bit and add some more content, then things should be fine.
I've said it before a million times, Metal Slug 4 was complete shit. I haven't played 5 but given that the old-school SNK didn't develop it either, I'll just stick with 1-3 and not give a shit where the series goes.
All what stuff? Run to the right and shoot bad guys? Collect powerups? Hop in vehicles?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymkata
Don't get me wrong, I am a HUGE Metal Slug fan. But it's been done to death.
There are more than enough 2D Metal Slug games out there. I want something new.
As for all the little background animations and stuff, they can do it in 3D. No one can tell me that it's easier to do that stuff frame by frame in 2D than it is in 3D.
Please SNK, no more rehash.
Viewtiful Joe style baby! Henshin a go go!
Hmm, that could be pretty interesting. yeah, that would actualy be pretty darn cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shapermc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roufuss
No, more like Contra, and Castlevania :rolleyes:
Contra was more "ruined" during their first 3D attempt by being pawned off to some half-assed European developer than being developed by an actual Konami team. Since then, those games have been virtually forgotten. People have little to trash about Shattered Soldier and Neo Contra.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Joe
As long as SNK doesn't try to make this a fully-immersed 3D game and stick to 2.5D or something, it won't be such a huge blunder.
WTF is wrong with Contra: Shattered Soldier? I enjoyed that game, personally... (unless you are talking about the PSX Contra games, which never happened)Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Joe
As for Castlevania.. yeah, LoI was stupid. That is the fault of the developers, not some silly "ZOMG 3D SUXXX" trend that some people online think exists.
-Dippy
I don't care what the reason or who developed them, both are not as good as they were in 2D. Shattered Soldier tried really hard but came up short. If they can go that route again and make it more twitch play than memory based it would truly be worthy. Neo Contra really looks good but we won't know until it is out so lets just leave that out of this.
You can blame anything you want on Castlevania's 3D problems. The truth is it was just about the same team as the great Metroidvanias and the game blew.
I have no problem with 3D, but some things are just better left in the second dimension.
Shattered Soldier was mostly 2D in gameplay (polygonal graphics). And tere hasn't been a 3D game that played as fast with the same fluidity of MS (and MS is actually fairly slow compared to some other lesser-known run 'n guns). So yeah, 2D is probably better for this series. But it has gone downhill, so I dunno.
Everybody knows that designing a good 3D game is entirely different from designing a good 2D one, and the skills dont necessarilly translate. Just because those developers made some good 2D games doesnt mean that (A) they could make a 3D game, or (B) there is something inherently wrong with 3D that makes people unable to translate a franchise over properly.Quote:
You can blame anything you want on Castlevania's 3D problems. The truth is it was just about the same team as the great Metroidvanias and the game blew.
As for me, I dont think much of any of the 'metroidvania' games so I dont really care, but the lament of innocence probably wouldve been great if they got people who are proven with 3D.
That's pretty much Nintendo's problem, their 2D games are ace artwork and leagues of fun, that's why the GBA has been selling so well, as their pre 64 stuff. I dont think that they've really grasped the 3D realm yet, but now that they're shoving their top franchises to other developers, there's nothing but improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Except for the way they set the standard for years to follow with Mario 64.Quote:
Originally Posted by DjRocca
I think Nintendo knows how to do 3D games, theyre just stupid and lazy, and they are content with the money hats they have now, so they just continue to push out the same stuff endlessly, and are completely content with not pushing the boundaries anymore because, hey... money hats.
Really, that is a perfectly legit way of doing business, and it happens to a lot of companies after they get old and big. But lets not fool ourselves - EA's strategy is exactly the same, and EA is putting out better games, too.
If you really wanna see a company that hasnt grasped 3D... Treasure.
Metal Slug going 3D isn't bad news anyway... it wasn't like it was the 2D or the gameplay that made the game anyway, considering that there wasn't very much that was exceptionally revolutionary about either. It was the sense of humor and character that the game had. As long as they retain that, along with making the game decent and replayable, I'll be happy.
And I thoroughly enjoyed Castlevania: Lament of Innocence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do You Like Erotic?
But did you like it as much as any of the 2D ones?
Diff, you make valid points in both of your posts.
I guess I kinda over reacted when I posted this. Thinking about it more, this may be a good direction for the series. Just please, make another 2d one on PSP and/or DS (even though the last 2 sucked).
All the more reason not to make another 2D one. The formula is old, let it die already.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrAnDX105
I enjoyed it a hell of alot more than those easy ass gba games that take about 4 hours to complete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass Joe
Eh, I wouldn't mind seeing the artistic style that they go with for this one. It could be good. :)
LoI has the level diversity of a set of cardboard boxes (with about the same amount of textures, also). The use about 5 pre-fab rooms over and over. The 2D games' rooms are much more varied.
Not to mention it took me as much time to beat as those games (which wasn't more than 10 h).
diffusionx - "If you really wanna see a company that hasnt grasped 3D... Treasure."
And to that, all I have to say is AMEN! and Thank God :D
I think MORE develpers need to embrace the glory of 2D gaming :) (or at least 2.5 D gaming - ie.e something like Klonoa 2 (Ps2) or Strider 2 (Ps1)).
Well we still have Guilty Gear X Reload, Street Fighter Anniversary Collection, Metal Slug 4/5 Combo Pack, Viewtiful Joe 2, Alien Hominid (which itself is fairly Metal Slugish actually ;-), and of course GBA to look forward to :)
Feel free to mention any upcoming console games that are 2D or 2.5D that I missed. :D
So when the new set of consoles come out, and 2d gets even more phased out on home systems as well as portables, Treasure will eventually go bankrupt from not knowing how to make a decent 3d game?Quote:
Originally Posted by dhowerter
The most successful companies are the ones who can do 2d AND 3d exceptionally well. I don't quite get the 3d hate around here.
I welcome SNK's attempt. So a lot of hardcore KOF fans hate Max Impact, not so much because it's 3D, but because buttonmashing makes combos and the game system is pretty broken, it seems. So what? A lot of people think it's fun, and a lot of hardcore KOF fans are idiots who'll pay $300 to buy cartridges that disappointed them every year up until the Atomiswave switch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roufuss
Then they'll buy the PS2 ports on top of that and complain about bad control. Anyway...
SNK's trying new things and though the results might not be 100% perfect every time, they're trying new things. This is fucking SNK! They haven't done anything remotely close to new since the HNG64 hardware, and that wasn't so interesting. Nobody's really recreated a good Contra or MS-feeling game in true 3D, and though Shattered Soldier's 2.5D was good, I'd prefer a game that had longer-lasting appeal. This could possibly be awesome. It could also suck. There's always room for 2D and 3D, but I don't see any reason to cry over this, because as many said, the last two MS games were derivitive and uninteresting, like most of SNK's recent fighting games. I welcome an attempt at something different than another lazy rehash.
Hell, SNK Battle Collosseum might turn out to play as poorly as SvC Chaos did, but there appears to be a hell of a lot more work going into it than, say, Capcom Fighting Jam. I like this SNK better than the SNK from a few years ago, so quit bitching, unless you'd rather MS6 and 7 come out within one year and be identical to 5.
That said, I hate the assumption that going from 2D to 3D is always bad, and that anything 2D must be a delicious wankfest.
Lament of Innocence was fun but flawed. I'd like to see Konami try again, with a bit of tweaking.
Gungrave?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grave
Not quite. Granted, I love Gungrave, but at face value it's an extremely shallow game. Not saying that Contra or Metal Slug are exactly deep per se, just that they involved a level of strategy that Gungrave didn't even have. In Gungrave it never really comes down to dodging huge volleys of bullets coming at you and navigating hazardous areas, taking care not to touch any enemies, or one hit and you're dead. Gungrave had a generous life bar and shields that pretty much destroy any feeling that caution might be necessary (unless you crank the difficulty (recommended)), not to mention that diving seemed to dodge pretty much any projectile that was coming your way. It was very straightforward and pretty easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roufuss
I won't go on about what I loved about the game and what I thought it did right because that's shit for another thread, but I would think calling it a successor to Contra or Metal Slug would be a misrepresentation of all games involved.
It's more of a backlash since there's so little high-quality 2D being put out. After all:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roufuss
When I sit down and play a game I don't enjoy it based on whether or not it will earn the developers money. 2D is a style of game that works great and was basically cut down right when we started getting to systems that could make beautiful 2D games. To imagine an action-adventure game with the animation level of SFIII, the high-res and special effects of GGXX, and the precise controls of something like SOTN is something I would love to play. It's also something I'll probably never see.Quote:
The most successful companies are the ones who can do 2d AND 3d exceptionally well.
Most 3D games even now are plagued with bad cameras and looser controls (usually to accomodate for increased animation cycles since 3D character animators tend to love showing off, something that also bugs me on the other side of the fence with Metal Slug) and are just a totally different experience. I don't think it's that many here outright hate 3D (although there have been a lot of bad transferrences of 2D to 3D series that breeds contempt), it's that 3D sells so much better to the public that it's almost destroyed 2D, which in turn removes most new input into a huge chunk of gaming that many people love to play.
I couldn't have said it better myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
Glass Joe/ALL Me either. Nice description of the problem, MechDeus :D
If only all game companies could get that description as a memo LOL :)