That is your opinion. I say fuck her.Quote:
Originally Posted by arjue
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That is your opinion. I say fuck her.Quote:
Originally Posted by arjue
and you honestly consider them to be representative of the same faith that me and veggie and some others talk about? Its called a straw man, i would think better of you than to think you actually beleived in one.Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
again, you draw from some extreme examples, i have seen what some christians think of muslims, i also know what other christins think of muslims, they really havent done themselves any favors in the PR. department lately, but seperating a short term anger from a long term ecclesiastical worldview really isnt that hard.Quote:
"Diametrically opposed" was not my view, I think the Abrahamic Religions are pretty much the same, but have you ever heard what some Christians think of Muslims, and what some Muslims think of Christians? It ain't pretty.
fair enough, though i think you limit your scope of the issue by just attending to local examples of a group, but i can understand that. I would argue that the fundamentalists are not "really" religious per se, as they are really into the bells and whistles of religious behavior, if anything from my religious perspective, thsoe guys are actually really anti-religious, as both jesus and mohammed were far more calm and accepting than those guys,these guys seem more to worship their own rage and judgement.Quote:
I may be getting a biased viewpoint in Australia, since over here, you're either really not religious or REALLY religious. So the Muslims and Christians tend to be fundo and rabid against each other.
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Exactly, that was my point, it's not religion that causes wars, it's the divisive component which can be derived from religion that causes wars. Just like every other thing we can grab to form an "identity" to think we are superior to someone else. But unlike skin colour, Religion is active, because most of them speak of other religions as misguided or flat out wrong. You would never hear a Rabbi say, "You know, it's possible Jesus WAS the Messiah, the Christians have a point and are equals". There's no such thing as a moral lowground in religion.
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well, religion is a kind of mutually exclusive thing, if a rabbi said that jesus really was the messiah, then he would realy be abandoning his religion and gravitating towards christianity, there are specific elements that make or break a religious faith, If jesus was god, then christians are right and everyone else is not quite right, if mohammed was really the true prophet of god, then jesus was not god, and therefore chirstianity is wrong and islam is right. Thats why ecumentical agreements generally work by agreeing on the general parts but kind of not talkign about the specifics. Im pretty good friends with my father's pastor and the local rabbi, and we broadly can talk religion and get along very well, but there are topics we dont exactly get into because we know that there are points we cannot agree on, so we agree to disagree, we arent taking the "moral lowground, because we all beleive our respective creeds absolutely, but we all agree that we are close enough on the topic that we dont need to fight about it.
see above, there always will be mutual exclusivity, thats just life and you work best agreeing to disagree, but you see the person as wrong but a good person, anything else is logically hard to hold.Quote:
Bullshit, I don't really feel like whiping out my Bible for quotes. But from what I remember whenever they speak about the pagans or Jews it's like "Oh, they're good people, God's people, but it's unfortunate their beliefs are full of crap. They'll come around when they die". That's still devisive, because you believe you're RIGHT and they are WRONG.
One thing is for sure, if there was no religion, no one would be fighting over Jerusalem, apart from all the awesome religious relics, that place is a hole.
you seriously ignore the appeal of the east jerusalem mini golf course, conquering people get one free game for each group of 4, and a free ice cream cone for a hole in one on the 18th hole.
i purposly avoided bumping this topic to answer these because i saw it dying yesterday and decided to let it go, these topics usually dont go many good places, and usually just reveal a lot of ignorance and bigotry and cause me to lose a lot of faith in my tnl bretheren, but heres the answers for astro, and i exunt.
What ever. Thats your view point on it, and just becuase you don't agree with what was said, doesn't make them gullible idiots that believe in anything. I have never understood how people can get all pissed off over abortion because it is taking a life. Well I got news for you, millions of lives are lost everyday at the hands of humans and no one gives a shit about that. Yes a human life is more important than that of an animal because as humans we have a sense of compassion (well most people do anyway) for our fellow man, but that doesn't mean our life is actualy more important than an animals life, or any other living thing. They have just as much right to live as we do, but its all part of life. I'm not sure what the count of abortions are up to right now, but I'm guessing its a shit load, and right now, we don't need to be getting a shit load of new babies every year to continue increasng the world population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
So we should we give people the ability to kill off these unborn children because we run possums over in our car sometime? Those are equivalent things in your head?Quote:
Yes a human life is more important than that of an animal because as humans we have a sense of compassion (well most people do anyway) for our fellow man, but that doesn't mean our life is actualy more important than an animals life, or any other living thing.
LOL. What a horrible argument. So maybe the United States should have a one-child-per-family law like China, right? So the population doesnt go up?Quote:
They have just as much right to live as we do, but its all part of life. I'm not sure what the count of abortions are up to right now, but I'm guessing its a shit load, and right now, we don't need to be getting a shit load of new babies every year to continue increasng the world population
Look, what you are basically saying is that there are too many child births in the US, and abortion is needed to regulate that. Wow! Unbelievable! Thats one of the cruelest, most awful things Ive ever read on TNL (that is, unless you were saying it with irony, and I dont think you were). What we need to do is fix the mess that is leading to all these babies being born, not killing them off before they pop out of the womb.
BS Diffusion, that is not even close to one of the meanest things said on TNL and you know it.
Spontaneous generation was disproved about 350 years ago bub. Llife in a non-metaphysical sense never "begins", it changes and splits off, but it never "begins". "Life", in the definition you say it "the term of an organism's existence" is completely a cultural thing, metaphysical, it has no factual basis in reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
Oh shit... I forgot that when you have sex, a bat signal shines out of your arse and up to heaven, and then God knows to send his army of storks to drop magical cabbages that teleport into the mother's "stomach".Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
I totally agree, and when women miscarriage, lets try those bitches for manslaughter (third degree murder).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
That would make sense, right? Can we take pregnant smokers and drinkers to trial for attempted murder? Shouldn't the government designate a specific diet and provide such for the mother to insure that the unborn has the most healthy diet possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
If youre just playing devil's advocate, thats charming, but this is very much a cultural discussion. Fact is, if the idea of "life" as you say has "no factual basis in reality", then all forms of murder should be legal, because, hey, fuck it. So if I wanna go and kill some random kid in the library that should be fine because life has no basis in reality. Puh-leeeze.Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
Now, if youre saying that "Life" should be, to the law, whatever we define it as - so life begins when the sperm enters the egg, so abortion should be illegal because its murder, or left begins when you pop out of the womb, so abortion should be legal... thats a different thing and open to interpretation. I guess thats where the problem stems. I for one say it begins with the former but obviously someone who is pro-abortion would believe something closer to the latter.
Wow, way to take everything I said out of context. I said clear as day that human life is more important then other forms of life but that is our view point on it. God you are such a fuck sometimes. The point I was trying to make is people don't like abortion because it is taking a life, when life is taken by humans everyday. Is it the same thing? Not quite, but who are we to say we are the most important thing in the universe and nothing matters but us.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
And as for regulating child births, if abortion is outlawed and people keeping having unprotected sex when they don't want kids, then yes maybe it will be needed. The world isn't amazingly getting bigger every year, in a sense its getting smaller and more people are falling into poverty. Do we really need to add so many more people into this world when so manyare suffering?
But do we need something like abortion to regulate it? I mean, lets be real here. Do the ends justify the means? I really doubt it. It's like saying the solution to America's oil dependence is killing families who own more than one car.Quote:
And as for regulating child births, if abortion is outlawed and people keeping having unprotected sex when they don't want kids, then yes maybe it will be needed. The world isn't amazingly getting bigger every year, in a sense its getting smaller and more people are falling into poverty. Do we really need to add so many more people into this world when so manyare suffering?
Besides, the world's population problems do not stem from this country or Europe, whose population is growing at a fairly normal and healthy rate (actually, in Europe, the population is shrinking, but thats something else). The world's population problems are coming from 3rd world places like India or Subsaharan Africa. Its why health officials are making such a push for contraception and female education in these areas (there is a correlation between level of education and number of children, believe it or not).
So unless you are taking all those shoulda-been-chopped-up-with-the-coat-hanger babies and shipping them off to New Delhi, they arent part of the world's impending population crisis.