Kerry and Religion

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Originally Posted by Mike

You can practice whatever religion you want and be a senator, representative, president, whatever. I just don't want that religion having anything to do with any choices made by that elected official.

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This is true. You don't see the Jewish senators in office trying to ban the mingling of meat and dairy. Religion is a deeply personal thing, and should be regarded as such.

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Moreover, I ESPECIALLY do not want someone with strong religious beliefs appointed to any sort of important seat - i.e. Supreme Court - since I do not vote for that person (directly) and since those persons may make choices which directly affect me.

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Anyone sitting on the supreme court probably understands that his job is to interpret the constitution as he feels it was intended not manipulate it to meet his needs. I don't agree with this one bit.

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Personally, I am made uneasy having someone in power who believes that some sort of entity (or entities) created everything and watches over us. I have religious friends and I'm not going to bash anyone's religion, but my opinion of someone's intelligence lowers if they believe in a God or Gods or divine creation or anything else with an inherently religious beginning as an explanation of life.

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This is just ignorant and idiotic.

We seem to agree on the first point I quoted merely by coincidence not by understanding: You are essentially an athiest zealot, who won't support anyone in office that doesn't coincide with your religious views (namely that religion is bogus). You're no better than anyone trying to force christianity on others.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Anyone sitting on the supreme court probably understands that his job is to interpret the constitution as he feels it was intended not manipulate it to meet his needs. I don't agree with this one bit.

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You don't think it's possible that a Supreme Court justice could be motivated by means other than law and justice, though? Why then, are conservative Christians basically praying that Bush wins so that he can fill some vacant seats with people who will help ban abortion and whatnot?

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You are essentially an athiest zealot, who won't support anyone in office that doesn't coincide with your religious views (namely that religion is bogus). You're no better than anyone trying to force christianity on others.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. I think you missed, "Now, I'm not naive; I know that religious beliefs guide a lot of elected and appointed officials." My religious views themselves may be extreme, but practice and theory are different. In theory, I look down on religion. In practice, I accept the differing views and will vote for someone. Kerry's a Catholic, right? But I'll vote for him because I feel a vote for him is in America's best interests both socially and financially. Toss aside all the stupidity about "flip-flopping" or "he lied" about either candidate and you're left with plans for policies. And, really, I'm looking at this election much more from a social standpoint. In my view, abortion needs to stay legal and we don't need an Amendment banning gay marriage. A vote for Bush is the exact opposite of how I feel on those issues, along with some other ones.

Let me put it this way: Bush is REALLY religious. Liberal whackos say he "talks to Jesus in the White House." If the Republican party hadn't made "a culture of life" and "preservation of marriage" part of their platform during the RNC, I might have voted for Bush.

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It’s sort of the same way I felt about atheists, even Aristotle or Dao*. Not that I thought they were less intelligent, just that it was mentally unhealthy.

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You think it's mentally unhealthy to question beliefs formed primarily by people in a time when they still believed the world to be flat, knew nothing of science, and were superstitious to the point of stupidity? I think it's rather unhealthy not to have some trepidation accepting their views at face value.

But people do, the question never even enters their mind.

It amazes me that people think of ancient religions like Greek mythology as absolute, 100% poppycock, and yet can still fully quantify their own beliefs. The Greeks believed their mythology just as strongly as modern day Christians believe theirs, who's to say the modern one couldn't be just as made up? I believe that miracles, people talking to God, Jesus as the son of God, are all myth. Nothing I have seen in my life here has led me to believe the veracity of such occurences, I believe it as much as I believe in legitimate magic. Of course, most modern religions' portrayal of God gets tricky, as it's less tangible and therefore offers a certain imperviousness to questioning, and whatever the great creator, if indeed there is one, may or may not turn out to be can be quantified by anyone due to his nebulousness (though no one living will ever know anyway, so why even bother?). That element was quite a devious machination, but one that I also think was human in origin.

I don't know, I agree that it's pretty weird thinking that everything fell into place out of nothing, but I think the concept of infinity is just as believable as that of a great celestial consciousness.

So...am I the only person who wants to kill more babies or what?

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Originally Posted by Mman

So...am I the only person who wants to kill more babies or what?

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Nope. Same here. I say kill 'em up to age 18.

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

You think it's mentally unhealthy to question beliefs formed primarily by people in a time when they still believed the world to be flat, knew nothing of science, and were superstitious to the point of stupidity? I think it's rather unhealthy not to have some trepidation accepting their views at face value.

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Indeed. When I was forced against my will to go to Sunday school when I was a kid, I couldn't believe the shit they were shoving down our throats. They would put us into little groups to discuss Bible selection short stories. These stories had ridiculous things like people walking on water and Noah's Ark. All the other kids ate it up like it was fact and I was like "What the hell? This is not scientifically possible. It goes against all common sense". Needless to say, I had no friends there.

And no I don't hate religion if that's what you're thinking. I have plenty of religious friends and relatives. I don't tell them what to believe and they don't tell me what to believe.

Anyway, the topic of separation of church and state should not be an issue at all. Everyone, whether they're religious or not, should support it as it's designed to protect everyone's religious freedom. Only those who don't believe in freedom and want their religion forced upon people would want a state religion.

I think NeoZ and McShig aren't understanding each other.

Uh, I think I understood him. He was talking about how people shouldn't just automatically accept what they're told so my reply related to that example even if it was a bit of a side rant.

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Originally Posted by Mike

I think NeoZ and McShig aren't understanding each other.

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Sounded like he understood me perfectly.

Just so you all know, I am totally not even touching this one.