Kerry and Religion

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Originally Posted by Opaque

His version of the Bible was a ten page short story about Jesus fishing. He didn't catch anything.

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He must not have remembered when that holy bastard stole my golf clubs and wouldn't give them back.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

It's a matter of how far back we can take this idea of 'life'. I mean, if we're going to consider embryos human life, then why not sperm? Does that therefore make condoms weapons of mass genocide? A line has to be drawn, but I for one have no idea where exactly to draw it.

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Exactly, without "the soul" in the argument, it's really hard to draw the line of where "life begins". Because in reality no new life has ever been made since the first abiogenesis... that is... if all life on earth resulted from the same abiogenesis event, we're all (plants and animals) just mutated satellites of the same "life". You were made from a living cell of your mum, and a living cell of your dad, so does the union of two lving cells mean new life has been made? I don't think so. It's the same life, in a different form, which will eventually lead to a new consciousness being formed.

So eating hamburgers is like masturbation?

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

So eating hamburgers is like masturbation?

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More like suicide.

I don't care for the religion but I grew up with it, so I can explain why Catholics get pissed about babies being killed.

They wouldn't go to Heaven, they'd go to Purgatory, because they haven't had the chance to get baptized, and so they haven't been cleansed of original sin. The church feels that it's not their fault though, so they wouldn't go to Hell. Enough praying would send them to Heaven apparently, just like it would send all people who fail the Heaven test but don't actually earn a trip to the gates of Hell.

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

So eating hamburgers is like masturbation?

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No, but felating a hotdog is.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

"It supposes some sort of abstract notion of the soul to hold much water. You can come up with metaphysical arguments for why the fetus is a person, but there's no sane way to argue that they are members of society"

No it doesn't. And a one month old baby that has never left the house isn't a member of soceity either...so what

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Are you arguing for infanticide or against aborition? I don't want to hear the slippery-slope garbage. That isn't really an argument. I want to hear a non-metaphysical justification against abortion.

And realy, don't want to get into this here. It's a fine thing to debate, and if you'd like to discuss it further, I'm quite willing, but make a new thread.

Well, I think I'm pro-choice, but I'm not sure. For one, i think that it'd be stupid for, say, a 20 year old full of potential with their whole life ahead of them to have to leave university and get a shitty job to support their child. But on the other hand, abortion is denying existance to future humans. I know many people born from their mother getting knocked up when they were young, and to think that if the mother decided to abort they would never have existed is kinda daunting.

I'm undecided, and I can't see me making my mind up any time soon.

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

=/ well abortion is still a bad thing. It doesn't really matter if it is killing or not. You are screwing a baby over. Now I'm not talking about rape victims and shit like that.

But I'm all for abortion. Because good mothers do not abort. Someone who is going to raise a cihld well, probably isn't going abort their baby. A bad mother will. And when I say bad mother I don't mean evil. A bad mother could be poor, to young, or other wise unable to take care of a child.

You can argue all day on how evil and wrong it is. But a better thing for you to think about is this, what is more wrong? Killing Babies or letting someone be raised by a shitty mother and then grow up and live a worthless life? And don't bring up Beethoven. When was the last Beethoven that came out of being raised by a 14 year odl girl on foodstamps?

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firstly, PLENTY of bad mothers keep their kids and plenty of potentially great mothers abort.

and your last statement about which is worse is pretty stupid. If you had to choose between being poor or being dead, which would you pick? and if the mother made the wrong decision and the kid would rather be dead, there's always suicide!

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

No, but felating a hotdog is.

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THATS SOME HOT SHIT RIGHT THERE.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I want to hear a non-metaphysical justification against abortion.

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That it wouldn't be needed if everybody in the world was responsible.

Yeah it would be nice if people would have some sense about sex and quit fucking or get a really good form of birth control if they didn't want kids.

Then this wouldn't be an issue.