After seeing how games like driver 3,britney speras dance beat, tony hawk underground 2 and other bad games sell well
Does a game need to be good to sell.
Add in Mortal Kombat : Deception
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After seeing how games like driver 3,britney speras dance beat, tony hawk underground 2 and other bad games sell well
Does a game need to be good to sell.
Add in Mortal Kombat : Deception
Oy. Here we go.
Edit: Please stop.
Banned in 3...2...1...
Any game (good or bad) will always sell when heavily advertised, hyped, and/or include a solid lisence. If they happen to be good, they will sell even better.
Good games without much promotion won't sell well often.
Its common sense.
*zerodash disagrees about MK:D being bad*
shit. did I just respond to a troll/spam thread? :sweat:Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Britney's Dance Beat was ok. It could've been better if it had included all her greatest hits instead of just a few songs from the "Oops" album.
It's clear that in today's market that a game does not necessarily have to be good in order to sell. It's all in how a product is marketed.
Granted, I still believe that quality speaks for itself, and I have hope that an inherently good game, regardless of adequate marketing strategies, will be recognized as such and sell relatively well.
We've seen some disappointments in this, namely with games like Ico, and to a lesser extent Viewtiful Joe. Sometimes it's just the level of cultural acceptance. Joe Blow, raised on American media ethic, feels he must defend his rigid masculine attitude. As a result he's self conscious about playing quirky games that are excellent, but don't exactly follow his tough guy aesthetic.
....Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCoKid
Wasn't Britney's Dance Beat based on Bust a Groove?
Enter the Matrix. This game is what really showed me bad games can sell based on liscense. Previous (liscensed) tries were no where near as sucessful (Mainly Genesis era and a few PS1)
Hi, welcome to marketing 101, have a seat.
thats crap though. If people spent half the time on researching Halop 2 or Driver on games like Prince of Persia we wouldn't see so many great games die by sellsQuote:
Originally Posted by ViciousJazz
Makes me wonder if gamers are to "hardcore" to look at other games and are killing the industry
and I sold it back more than a year ago, mostly because it was kinda gross sitting there on the shelf. I'd rate it about a 6/10.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
:lol:Quote:
tony hawk underground 2
I can't imagine how someone could put this in the same sentence as Driver 3.
PoP recieved a sequel. I don't see how how that means it had "died" by sales.Quote:
thats crap though. If people spent half the time on researching Halop 2 or Driver on games like Prince of Persia we wouldn't see so many great games die by sells
Just becuase their sequels doesn't mean it was good selling. Veiwtuful Joe has a squel and it sold terrible.
THUG 2 is the worst rip off sequel this year PERIOD!
Well, the point of any business is to make money, and sometimes the quickest and cheapest way to turn a profit is to stick to a formula that's proven itself in the past, ie a licensed hollywood film adaptation or GTA clone thee thousand.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Mainstream gamers seem satisfied with this, and that's the company's major source of income.
But the situation isn't totally hopeless. I liken the game industry more and more to the film industry these days. There's a whole lotta crap, but every once in a while a game or film comes along that simply must be referred to as art.
The market can't possibly be filled with enlightened game developers and producers that see game quality as their first priority, and not all the gamers can be bright, informed and willing to try things they've never done before. That's what makes the quality games so great. That there's so few of them and that finding them is a wholesome experience. Let the masses have their big money games. It keeps the industry going and allows for the quirkier, amazingly great games to be made.
(Note that I am not saying that huge games pushed heavily by marketing are bad. But they can be.)
In terms of spelling and grammar, remnant's posts are about the quailty that IPs would be if he was drunk.
I just noticed it.
No, it is the level of IPs if IP went back to the seventh grade. In every aspect.
I thought this game wasn't out yet? :wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
OMG JOHN TITOR
ps: Spec-Ops.
It's not out. The moron is refering to the PS2 version I assume.Quote:
Originally Posted by dog$
Prince of Persia was advertised like crazy before its release and, initially, it sold very, very poorly. It wasn't until a few months after its release that people actually began to buy the game and even now it hasn't been a spectacular seller. I don't think it's even broken one million copies sold after over a year =/
That's an example of good+marketing = no sales. Happens all the time, it's marketing.
THUG 2 is easily the best game in the series, fixing all the problems I had with THUG, while adding some pretty damn useful new moves. I'd love to know what's wrong with it.Quote:
THUG 2 is the worst rip off sequel this year PERIOD!
This is the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tain
THUG 2 makes THUG, and even Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4 look foolish.
Hey remnant, there's this awesome place called gamefaqs that would welcome an enlightened and obviously savvy gamer such as yourself. TNL, in comparison, cannot hold a candle to the intellectual and meaningful topics posted in gamefaqs ALL THE TIME. If this were a perfect world TNL, too, would have such topics as who would win in a fight--Goku vs. Sephiroth vs. Neo. You need to take your ace spelling and message board skills to a place that will truly appreciate them--and not this mess called TNL.
I meant Veiwtuful Joe 1 sold bad. The sequel not coming out til the end November. I apologize for that mistake. Enter the Matrix was extremely over-hyped.
Why arewe letting this happen. Ifpeople would stop buying games that are bad then maybe they would do better. THUG is a good example. Tony Hawk 4 didn't sell well and that is why thay made THUG. I wish they put the same amount of time into THUG2 though becuasethat game sucks. reasons:
1.Killed the one best storyline to ever appear on a sports game like this.
2.HAd the same controls since Tony Hawk 1. Thats a bad thing
3.Who are the guys in this game. Viva La Bam invades THUG. Someone shoot Dan Magera
4.Am I the only one who thinks that if activison took a year or 2 off and rewrote this game from the ground up Tony Hawk would have the same impact it had before with Tony Hawk 1
( Am taking a writing class and this is my homework. I know my typing sucks)
No, TH4 did sell well, that's why they made THUG.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
The controlls scheme is perfect. Why would you want them to change it?Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Bam is a professional skater, that's why he's in the game. Why don't you bitch about how the Cowboys are in Madden next?Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
No. The impact Tony Hawk 1 had to the extreme sports genre will never be replicated because there isn't much room for improvement. The physics, controlls, music and level design have always been good. In terms of moves, there is nothing left for them to add, they have made a complete and perfect replication of real life skating and the tricks involved there in. Give me a way they can improve it and maybe I'll stop thinking you are talking out of your ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
I wouldn't be expecting a high mark on that paper, if I was you.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
I never played Tony Hawk for the storyline, and never will. I honestly wouldn't have been dissapointed if THUG never even had a storyline. I WANT MORE LEVELS!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
What would YOU change about the controls? By all means tell me a more intuituve control set up for a skateboarding game.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Wow, just wow...Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Absolutly not, because if they did that, the only thing they would change is the graphics engine. There is no way in hell Neversoft would mess with their uber successful Tony Hawk physics and controls, they just work WAY too well.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
FIX YOUR TYPOS! That is all...Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
This is what am talking about. The controls are best ever. Thats what everone said bout goldeneye until halo came and now it has perfect controls. No one knows how a good game game can get better until they take some time off and try. You all should be proud of the story in thug 1. it added dimensions to the game that no one thought it could have. then they ruin it with WORLD DSTRUCTION TOUR. Am okay that Dan Magera was in the game, he is a profesional but did he have to co-write the story( He did, I think with some other celebrity like Steve-O)
You guys are going to say the same thing until THUG 8 and then its a bad strecthed out franchise. Thats the same crap that mario,link etc.. have right now with the "mature" gamers a.k.a i play games with half-naked girls not becuase their good but becuase I look cool doing it.
I never said Goldeneye had perfect controls. I doubt anyone that had played a PC FPS prior to that said anything along those lines.
And if adding things like letting players manually use rolls and flips, enter focus time, and fix game-breaking glitches from the original THUG as well as bringing back an entire classic mode and completely refining the goal setup of the original - within the span of a year - isn't 'trying', I don't know what is.
Besides, Halo had the same controls as every other console FPS. Meaning bad controls.
Being a lefty, I must agree. And that southpaw control scheme is crap too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpol
Fuck you. Enter the Matrix was awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shapermc
NO WAY. It was Max Payne with a hearty helping of extra suck.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeveboy
Enter the Matrix, Catwoman, Wolverine Revenge. 9/10 games based on movies suck. Its almost a fact
Final Fantasy X-2 was terrible and it sold incredibly well in its first week on the shelf. Go figure.
My first complaint about Goldeneye when I played it, it didn't control like Turok. You couldn't look around without holding the R button, and there was absolutly no jump button. I'm not even saying Turok had perfect controls, I'm just saying that Goldeneye had FAR from perfect FPS controls when it was released, and far from perfect FPS controls now.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
What kind of dimensions did it add to the game? A one dimensional character that you are supposed to be? A storyline that was horribly scripted and in my opinion not engaging by any means? Honestly, I'm playing Tony Hawk games for a high score, not for a story.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Also, are you really that stupid, or are you trying to make a joke by calling him Dan Magera? Bam had intellectual input into the story, just like how Tony Hawk had (and still has) input in all of the Tony Hawk games. If the Tony Hawk games were initially bad would you say "WHY DID YOU LET TIMMY HOCK CO DEVELOP THIS GAME???"? I don't get why the fact that Bam Margera is in this game is such a big deal, you realize he was in THUG also?
HAAHQuote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Games don't have to be good to sell. They just have to be good enough so the majority that get sucked into the hype won't think it's worth the effort to return them, or will convince themselves it's a good game, only to forget about it completely after playing it for a week or so.
I don't own THUG 2 sadly, but I played it in Best Buy long enough for the friend I was with to threaten to leave without me, which was odd since I was the one driving, but it actually felt like it controlled a bit smoother than the previous games, which is a good thing, but the Boston level seemed pretty bland to me, and the gimmick skaters were lame. And would it really have killed them to give the option to customize controls and add online support for the xbox version? I'll probably still get it when I'm caught up on other games, like sometime next year.
Everyone hating on Britney Speras Dance Beat can fuck off.
And, just for the record, that's not an example of a "crap" game selling well, because it didn't sell well at all.
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/s...ght=dance+beat
I wouldn't call it horrible by any means. It's just not as good as people wanted it to be in certain areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by DjRocca
Certain Areas being ALL areas, then yes.
I just couldn't handle the campiness of the whole thing. And changing the jobs was more tedious and annoying that I thought.
No; college students and younger children that couldn't afford decent PCs said Goldeneye had perfect controls. That was about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
In regards to looking around in Goldeneye: There's this awesome thing called an options menu, and one of those options was to change the control scheme. 1.2, IIRC, was similar to the Turok scheme and had freelook based on the analog stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrAnDX105
I thought the campiness worked quite well for X-2, since FFX being serious was like watching overly-flamboyant drag queens trying to perform a musical version of Schindler's List.Quote:
Originally Posted by ViciousJazz
Granted, I would definately pay to see the latter, but nevertheless.
The only game where I thought the effect worked well for it was Brave Fencer Musashi. X-2 already has a shaky foundation, ie I never felt I could identify with the world at large. I never quite cared for the common folk, where they live, and whether or not they die, OR ANYTHING.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
The same could be said of X as well. The game lacked direction. Oftentimes I forgot the goal of the protagonist, and Tidus was just such a goddamn flake that I felt he most likely forgot, too.
But it's not a bad game, not by any means. I was just never absorbed into the sequel's atmosphere.
PoP sold more than 2 million copies across all systems. Hardly a failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpol
X-2 had a lame story that provided no real motivation to play, even forgetting about all the lame things you needed to do to get 100% on it. The only really cool part for me was the endings for all the different monsters and that's only in the international version of the game. Using said monsters in combat wasn't all that fun since you never had direct control over them, resulting in more watching than playing. Though at least the normal combat with the girls was less boring than FFX.
Bad games sell well because of good advertisement or popular movie/cartoon/franchise tie-ins.
People buy games that are related to things they already like, expecting good things.
Those are the same people that think Halo has perfect controls, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
Case in Point: I will buy the Nightmare Before Christmas game, regardless. Another point, Korly bought the Dino Thunder game, luckily he bought it before me and I learned from his mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
What the hell? Are you confused with another game? I remember Viewtiful Joe selling well, and the sequel is barely even out, isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
If it's marketted well, you'll buy it. It's pretty simple.
Ok, I am available not this weekend but next.Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeveboy
Anyways, I only got to play for about 15min and it was poor. My friend who let me play it for that peoid of time did nothing but complain about it.
THUG2: There is no reason to argue about taking more time to build a better game. DFC Intelligence President David Cole seems to think that the profit line is the only thing that matters in release times.
Thats crap. Its like the movie indusrty. Crap all year then summer and christmas something amazing comes. I kinda wish gaming hadn't gone mainstream. Games based on how good they are and no haw marketable they are would dominate
( Goldeneye had amazing controls for the consoles. PC always had better FPS controls. Everyone knows that)
the storyline in THUG could have been improved instead of demolished. Thats what a sequel does. Improve things( The characters in THUG2 are so stupid its pathetic. skate as a guy on a wheelchair. I don't think so)
The industry is cyclical, it'll be non-mainstream again.
Even in the early days of gaming marketing affected sales and many great games didn't sell. The industry really hasn't changed in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
True but more experimental games were tried. You think if someone passed an idea like Mario today they would make it. Hell No, I remeber games being much more risky not in violence but in game design than right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater
People will buy human shit in a box if you advertise it right.
NOTHING has to be good to sell.
Yeah, because there's nothing experimental about Super Monkey Ball or Rez or Ico or Wario Ware or Dance Dance Revolution or Katamari Damacy.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
You have a very romanticized view of how gaming used to be. For every experimental game, you had hundreds of copycats shat out by a programmer or two over a month. And they were far, far worse than today's bad games.
Gaming is the same as ever. People just remember the classics more, so they forget the crap.
[ true but those games didn't sell. Ico didn't sell crap and wario ware sold okay but of a game of that talent should had sold better.]Quote:
Originally Posted by sethsez
If the majority of games on that list got sequels (and DDR didn't sell? wtf are you smoking) then I think they sold well enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Uh, DDR almost single-handedly revived arcades. I'd say that's pretty successful, wouldn't you? And Super Monkey Ball sold very well too.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Besides, do you think every experimental game on the NES was successful? You probably don't remember (or never heard of) most of them.
Mario's theme was a lot more appealing to many gamers back then because the average age of video game players was a lot younger. It has nothing to do with gamers being more open-minded to experimental games or anything. A Mind Forever Voyaging was one of the most experimental and critically acclaimed games of 1985 and it sold like shit. Fantasy Zone was highly experimental and played amazingly but the average gamer didn't know it existed.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Ok Remnant I have a very important piece of information for you.
Just because it didn't sell well in your area, does not mean it did not sell well. The only way I can see you getting your information is by hearing a "huh" from people around you every time you ask them about some game. Then you assume it didn't sell well, and go on this rant.
Go find some numbers. You'll find yourself mistaken and perhaps learn something. Right now you're just a douche in denial of anything outside his tiny little spot in the world.
Speaking of that, did you know that anime is going to be bigger than Disney in five years! That's how popular it is!!!
You know, if we'd just said "No- Driver 3" then this thread would have been a whole lot shorter.
James
Except that he already knows it sold well, so it's a redundant question.
Heres a thought remnant. Your mom sells well and shes the nastiest whore Ive had. But shes such a damn bargain at $1 you cant go wrong. Same thing applies to games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrAnDX105
Actually, you CAN play Goldeneye like Turok. Go into the options screen, theres a control scheme setup for it.
Someone mentioned this earlier, I think it may have been Jeremy. I completely forgot about that option, thanks for pointing it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiMoogle
I doubt this will be me to go back to Goldeneye though, the only thing that could come to my mind last time I put this game in was BLECH!. I feel like the N64 and PSX generation have just aged terribly, Goldeneye being part of that group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
...Go away.
I agree. I actually had a pretty good time with the game, other than the requirements for certain pieces of the percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
State of Emergency is a fine example of a very mediocre game, that sold well because of a company's reputation. It sold well enough, to become a greatest hits title on the PS2 and have a port to the Xbox. The game was somewhat enjoyable for the first 3 levels, but after that it was more of the same old same old.
it took one post to answer the question. I should make a thread called Do bad games ever sell well because they're bad or do they sell well because they're really secretely good?
It would get 10 pages, easy.
No, it wouldn't. Unless you advertised it correctly, as has been said, shit can become popular. Brand, it wasn't me who mentioned that, although that is definitely the way to play Goldeneye.
I tried going in with no expectations. It just has that annoying "Girl Power" allure to it I can't stand. I'd probably say the same if it wasn't tied to Square at all, but it was just too hard to get into. Also, it got lame winning all the battles by mashing X. :yuck:Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Dude... :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCoKid
Like... I don't even know where to start.
Case in point: star wars up till kotor aparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by IronPlant
Some people equate a failure in style to a failure of a game. Not true, see Zelda: WW, great game but the style didn't appeal to some folks. I think FFX-2 suffers the same fate, I for one, like the idea of a FF: Pretty Pretty Princess Dress up.
Watching Superman 64, one of the worst games of all-time, fly off the shelves while working at EB Christmas of '98 basically destroyed my faith in the general gaming public.
Any other mediocre game that has become a best seller since then has not suprised me in the least.
Wait a minute. If this is true and games that don't sell well here and sell well somewhere else still make a profit then what about consoles. If the gamecube sells like crap here and sells well in japan then that doesn't mean it is not close to dying. However people still say that the cube is bad and doesn't sell where anywhere. The same goes for a game. Some games sell well here and do crap in japan and vice versa. So if a console sells well in one olace and bad in another it doesn't sell. If a game sells well in one place and not in another then it still sold well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief~Silver
Explain the logic?
ok, I'll explain.
By "here", he meant where you live, not the US in its entirety.
Game makes a profit = Sold well.
Just becuase a game sold well where he lives doesn't mean everywhere else. His the hypocrite. Just becuase everyone here buys the same game doesn't mean it happens anywhere elseQuote:
Originally Posted by Mzo
Publishers want the game to sell everywhere. A huge success in the U.S. and a big flop in Japan or the U.K. is still a flop. Just not as big. Ask Microsoft,Sega,SNK or any company succeded in one place and flopped in another.
" If you wanted to play Halo 2, you should have came to Japan. The line is like 10 mins long" Adam Sessler on XPLay TGS report.
Sometimes I wish there was a way to physically smack someone upside the head through the internet.
Or at least telepathically neuter them.
Just what the hell are you trying to say, remnant? And goddamit, proofread your responses! I got a good laugh out of Mzo's new title, "His the hypocrite", but these glaring errors are making you look stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Fuck both of you guys. You don't work in the industry and you don't know how they think. Game sells well here, not good somewhere else and they lose money. Try again with sequel. if that doesn't work pull the plug. Look at Sam and Max. Funny as hell,orignal but few bought and now there is no sequel.
No. If a publisher cannot recoup the development cost of a game through its sales, then they lose money. It's possible for a game to do well in one region but flop in others and still make money if its sales are greater than the investment cost. That's what we call a "profit".Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Welcome to Business 101. And you still haven't learned to proofread your posts. That will be your next homework assignment.
And you do?Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Uh... :confused:Quote:
Game sells well here, not good somewhere else and they lose money.
If a game makes a profit, it's a success. Half-Life 2 could sell 5 copies in Japan, but that doesn't matter because it's going to make enough money in America to more than make back their money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
I can't believe this thread is still going on, and I can't believe how much more of an idiot you have made yourself look like. :eek:
Dammit, Sethsez, stop beating me to my responses.You're absolutely right and it has nothing to do with it being part of a genre that is completely dead as far as the industry is concerned. But at least now we know that Full Throttle sold like crap as well, huh?Quote:
Look at Sam and Max. Funny as hell,orignal but few bought and now there is no sequel.
IF he has ever worked in the industry, I'm getting an Opa-Opa flashback...
The comedy genre is dead but that doesn't mean they still make a game like it or revaltilize it. The puzzle genre was dead but brought back to life thanks to cell phone games like bezzeled or whatever its called.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
The Comedy Genre is alive and well.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
"Comedy" is a videogame genre now? How does it play?Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
They have been (well, games like Sam and Max, not "the comedy genre" that you just made up) and they haven't been selling well enough to register on a lot of people's radar. The point-and-click adventure games are niche these days, how well they sold ten years ago has nothing to do with how well they sell now.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
The puzzle genre was dead? It's always subsisted on one or two major games here and there, nothing's changed. Tetris, Puyo Pop, Bust-A-Move, and Bejeweled (which started and gained noteriety as a PC game IIRC) are basically the big releases, along with the often lesser-known on a large scale level of Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo (I'm actually not really sure how well known this one is), Intelligent Cube, Bombtastic, Devil Dice, and, uh, well... Columns, I guess? That pretty much covers all the major puzzle games ever (I know I'm missing some, and I only vaguely count Minesweeper). Not exactly a hefty lineup for, what, fifteen years or so?Quote:
The puzzle genre was dead but brought back to life thanks to cell phone games like bezzeled or whatever its called.
Actually, your playing it right now. This thread is pure-comedy-gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by sethsez
You forgot Magical Drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
I really need to start buying more comedy games then, because this is a hoot!Quote:
Originally Posted by JefmcC
Many PC point and click games like Sam/Max and Leisure Suit Larry were focused on comedy and are it was a genre until it died when PC gaming flopped for a while in the early 90's thanks to NintendoQuote:
Originally Posted by BrAnDX105
PC gaming flopped? Doom, anyone?
And there were many that WEREN'T focused on comedy. The genre you're looking for is "adventure."Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
And PC gaming flopped? I remember a couple little games named Doom and Myst that might say otherwise.
And Fantavision.Quote:
Originally Posted by ViciousJazz
I must've forgotten how funny The Dig was.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant
Ere it be?Quote:
and are it was
Point-and-click adventure games are still a genre, like The Longest Journey, Grim Fandango (although those last two are getting a bit old by now), Syberia I & II, Jazz and Faust, Wanted, and the Myst-styled ones like the Law & Order series, CSI, and the obvious new Myst games. Although that's pretty much just the newer ones as PnC adventure titles never went away, they just stopped being the eye of the media.Quote:
a genre until it died when PC gaming flopped for a while in the early 90's thanks to Nintendo
What in the hell are you talking about? Nintendo's never put so much as a dent in PC gaming, especially in the early 90's, when it was huge.Quote:
Originally Posted by remnant