I'm assuming Bahn will have to answer this. Does TNL have an official stance on software piracy or intellectual property theft via emulation/ROMs? If so, what is it?
Printable View
I'm assuming Bahn will have to answer this. Does TNL have an official stance on software piracy or intellectual property theft via emulation/ROMs? If so, what is it?
And now the thread is moved... I would love to hear how this isn't game related.
Here's your policy: Don't ask, don't tell.
i dont think TNL has much of a policy...but there are a legion of assholes on this board who either do it themselves but would never admit it....or are too stupid to know how to so they'll sit there and bash anybody who would start a thread about such issues. it's sad really considering theres a pretty big homebrew community for the DC, a small one for the PS2 and im sure theres going to be an even bigger one for the Xbox when the "chips" come out next week.
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/Board_Rules.htm
Going by the rules, emus and ROMs are not to be talked about as far as piracy goes (example: "d00d I gotz thiz h0t R0M, h4x0r!") -- but it looks like you want to talk about IP theft issues. It might help if you clarify what you want to talk about.
As for the moving of the thread, the mod who did this is on crack. It goes back in gaming.
Yep, I was on crack.... :)
Anyway, Ill move it back for now. Ill explain later...
Heheh.. Thanks.
Now I got to edit my suggestions/feedback post.. :D
I moved it because it didnt sound like a question directed towards the entire community, just the select few amount of people that run the boards. And I really wasnt on crack :)
Lhadatt was correct, ROM requests and discussion is not permitted.
Right. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Richter
And I really wasnt on crack :)
Really, I believe you. ^_^ That's just my standard response to quirky stuff.
Well , in my opinion theres nothing wrong with the emulation of older games. No ones losing out , its as simple as that. I dont think anyone would suffer if I downloaded gensis ROMs, or classic arcade games for MAME , except for a bunch of greedy Ebay assholes.I dont think anyone lost out when I got Castlevania :Rhondo no chi ISO from the net.
But I am against the emulation of systems that are currently alive.GBA and wonderswan emulation is just plain wrong ,as your stealing the profits of the companies making the games.
Some people do view pirates as the robin hoods of the gaming industry , especially in asia. I doubt that people would be able to afford an Xbox when the games can cost up to $120 here.Import duties and all add to the price to such an extent that its impossible for people to buy the games.As a matter of fact Ive spent $80 on castlevania :COTM
I feel we must differentiate between emulation and piracy. If emulators weren't developed, the console development scene would have a hard time getting its act together. Emulating is not illegal -- piracy is. The emulators were developed by people interested in furthering game development and not necessarily piracy. It's the *users* who are furthering this. ^_^Quote:
Originally posted by xS
Well , in my opinion theres nothing wrong with the emulation of older games. No ones losing out , its as simple as that. I dont think anyone would suffer if I downloaded gensis ROMs, or classic arcade games for MAME , except for a bunch of greedy Ebay assholes.I dont think anyone lost out when I got Castlevania :Rhondo no chi ISO from the net.
But I am against the emulation of systems that are currently alive.GBA and wonderswan emulation is just plain wrong ,as your stealing the profits of the companies making the games.
Some people do view pirates as the robin hoods of the gaming industry , especially in asia. I doubt that people would be able to afford an Xbox when the games can cost up to $120 here.Import duties and all add to the price to such an extent that its impossible for people to buy the games.As a matter of fact Ive spent $80 on castlevania :COTM
Translation: If I can't afford it, then anyone who sells it must be a greedy asshole. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by xS
Well , in my opinion theres nothing wrong with the emulation of older games. No ones losing out , its as simple as that. I dont think anyone would suffer if I downloaded gensis ROMs, or classic arcade games for MAME , except for a bunch of greedy Ebay assholes.
The fact that there was always a good and a bad side to emulation was always amazing. What is even more amazing is how some people would damn near start a holy crusade to try to end it (with all the extreme bashing and such)....:D
I have a couple arguments in favor of emulation.
First off, the flexibility of emulation allows me to do things I simply cannot do with my consoles. My iBook is my friend, and this friend is filled to the brim with emulators. MAME, SNES, Genesis, NES, and so on. With this, I can take it to school, work, on the road, to my friend's place - wherever. I sure can't do that with my SNES. The sheer convienence of being able to play these games wherever I want is a definate advantage.
Now, some more puritanical members might say "That's criminal! Surely you have ROMS of games you don't own on that machine!" Why, yes I do. It's true. But at the same time, I can estimate that there has been no less than 150 seperate occasions when I've been so inspired by a game or series that I've discovered haphazardly through emulation, that I went out and tracked down a copy of the game itself. Not to mention other games in the series. To say emulation causes me to buy more games than if I had never ventured into this field is an understatement.
That's not to say I support full-on piracy of modern games. But if people discover older games through emulation, I'm not going to fault them in any way.
How much does an iBook run for?
Emus on a PDA?! Look out world!! :D :lol:
I managed to get an iBook at a considerable discount (paid $700) for a 99% new floor model from Fry's Electronics in January. Other than that, I'm not sure of the average price for current models.
*Taps his lady's bank account* :lol:
If you can't buy it new - and you don't minbd the drop in quality (usually) then I'm %100 for emulation.
In that respect - I'm for the availability of ISO's for older game systems where you cannot find new titles for, like Saturn for instance. You don't do the developers or the publisher any favors by buying anything off of eBay or from the used rack. Of course you may want the packageing and the legit real-deal game, but if not no harm is done by D/Ling Sega CD or Saturn games. I'm for it.
You can not, nor should you, request ROMS or ISOs here. If you want it - make like anyone else who has to find it for themselves and raid the IRC or run a File Server dedicated to it.
ºTracer
'Tis true here as well. Oftentimes I will use emulators to try out newer games that I'm unsure of to decide if I want to pay that amount or if the game is worth anything. If it hadn't been for Mame, I wouldn't have bought Mark of the Wolves (I played the first arcade rom of it, and decided it was worth owning and so immediately went to NCS to place an order for the import soon as they start taking pre-orders), and wouldn't have decided to own a Supergun and begin buying boards (various financial reasons have slowed me, but this will still be finished by years end, and I will still use roms to decide if such-and-such game unknown to me is worth $100-400 dollars).Quote:
Originally posted by Wilykat
But at the same time, I can estimate that there has been no less than 150 seperate occasions when I've been so inspired by a game or series that I've discovered haphazardly through emulation, that I went out and tracked down a copy of the game itself.
But far too many abuse it for just the "free games".
.Its true that I cant shell out $500 on saphire . Most of the guys selling radiant silvergun probably dont even play games ,so Im not harming the gaming industry by not buying it off Ebay.Quote:
Originally posted by TriForce
Translation: If I can't afford it, then anyone who sells it must be a greedy asshole. :rolleyes:
If I were a collector and loved the box art and all , I would gladly purchase the game off Ebay.......
The don't ask don't tell policy works the best. Emu/Piracy is not smiled apon here and we don't talk about it much.
I don't care what you do. Do I think game piracy is wrong? Yes. Do I have a few DC...ahem... backups? Yes. Am I such an anal retentive collector that I will have to buy the originals of these games? Yes.
(For a while I was downloading Japanese games to try them out before I bought them. I am such the hax0r.)
Now to ask the question I always ask whenever this discussion happens.
If piracy is such a terrible thing, how about buying used?
Justify away...
What would buying games used have to do with piracy?
The act of buying a used game doesn't, in itself, give any money to the developers/publishers. The used game, however, at one point, was purchased retail.
Buying a used game is refunding to the seller some of the money used to purchase that game retail.
Publishers/developers also maintain control in a used game situation, since they're able to limit the number of copies produced.
Would you argue that stealing used cars is okay, since the car company that produced the car wouldn't have received any of the used car's value anyways if that used car was sold?
Except that stealing a used car actually deprives someone else of their property. If there was an illegal way to make a used car for free without stealing it from someone else, then yeah, I'd say that it would be Okay to do.Quote:
Originally posted by Stone
Would you argue that stealing used cars is okay, since the car company that produced the car wouldn't have received any of the used car's value anyways if that used car was sold?
What about depriving someone of the economic value of their game?
Say you own a game that people will pay $50 for used. Some people pirate that game.
If those people couldn't pirate the game, then the value of that used game would go up (more people would want it). You might be able to get $60 for it, instead of $50.
So, by pirating you're artificially lowering the value of games that should be worth more.
1) If that was true, you wouldn't be paying $150 for games that aren't rare, like Radiant Silvergun, and $500 for games that are rare, like some NeoGeo games and such.
2) I frankly couldn't give a shit about people who buy games because of their monetary value and not to play them. If you bought the game for the express purpose of reselling it for more money and pirates made it lose value, too bad. Get a job.
You answer this question in your next statement.Quote:
Originally posted by Stone
What would buying games used have to do with piracy?
So was the pirated game. The data had to come from somewhere...Quote:
Originally posted by Stone
The act of buying a used game doesn't, in itself, give any money to the developers/publishers. The used game, however, at one point, was purchased retail.
Selling pirated games is refunding to the seller some of the money used to purchase that game retail.Quote:
Originally posted by Stone
Buying a used game is refunding to the seller some of the money used to purchase that game retail.
Yeah... and?Quote:
Originally posted by Stone
Publishers/developers also maintain control in a used game situation, since they're able to limit the number of copies produced.
Nope, but buying used games still makes you no better that someone who downloads their games. Deal with it.Quote:
Originally posted by Stone
Would you argue that stealing used cars is okay, since the car company that produced the car wouldn't have received any of the used car's value anyways if that used car was sold?
Yes, I buy used games.
No, I don't give a shit if you buy new, used or pirate. I am just pointing out the obvious.
Worth more to who? Resellers? Who gives a fuck?Quote:
Originally posted by Stone
What about depriving someone of the economic value of their game?
Say you own a game that people will pay $50 for used. Some people pirate that game.
If those people couldn't pirate the game, then the value of that used game would go up (more people would want it). You might be able to get $60 for it, instead of $50.
So, by pirating you're artificially lowering the value of games that should be worth more.
I dont see anything wrong with the piracy of games for dead systems.Personally , I see emulation as preservation.Hardly anyone would be able to play great games like radiant silvergun and rakugaki showtime if it werent for downloading the ISo's.I feel sorry for who ever spent half of his monthly wage on saphire or divine sealing($700 and worst game , ever!).
You might be harming the retailers.......but your definetely not harming the developers. I doubt that these retailers make much of a margin off old NES games anyways.These games are ussually sold alongside the mainstream lineup to foster brand loyalty for the retailers own shops.However , I am against the piracy of games for systems that are still alive such as the DC ,GBA ,Neo geo , ps2,Xbox or GCN as you are eating potential profits of the developers.
Its partly the developers own fault that people in poorer countries like brazil trade in bootlegs.The developers dont even consider them a market , and havent done a single thing for these markets.In fact they dont even care about piracy in these markets......its normal for Sony shops to sell bootleg playstation games.
i dont see the reason people feel they need to justify their actions to a message board. who really cares what people do behind closed doors.
All I really emu are some arcade stuff... Do I have Saturn X-Men Vs SF, MSH vs SF, Vamp Savior and SFA3, yes. But can I play any of them online with countless other people without using an emulator? No. I use the emulator to play against other people...and that's about it. Long story short, Do I use emu's? Yes, do I still buy retail, yup.
Where's the beef?
Wendy's.Quote:
Originally posted by Chux
Where's the beef?
My thoughts exactly:DQuote:
Originally posted by TheSCHLONG!:
i dont see the reason people feel they need to justify their actions to a message board. who really cares what people do behind closed doors.