Who are you voting for next week and why?

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

Bush is not a good public speaker... blah blah blah

Kerry is a good speaker... blah blah blah

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Symbolism over substance. If you didn't get enough of it with Clinton, be sure to vote another sleazy, two-faced liar into office. Hopefully when Kerry obstructs justice, he will be removed, not just impeached.

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

Fucked on taxes a little more now > entire economy desperately fucked later down the road.

Ain't pretty, but we have to get out of the hole we're in somehow, and taxes are the most obvious way.

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Take an economics class from a professor who knows what the hell he is talking about. Taxes have never and will never solve economic problems. They are bandaids. How many people on welfare better themselves because we steal from the wage earners to give them money? The answer is a shit load less than would benefit from more jobs being created by business who have tax burdens lessoned. This is not conservative rhetoric; It's economic common sense.

Substance? The BUSH administration? To quote Ralph Kramden, hardy, har-har.

Next on Crossfire, watch Robert Novak kick Paul Begala in the balls.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru

Go a little further in that book and see who declared war on who, with regards to Germany and Italy. Oh, wait, WE did.

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I'm afraid you're wrong. Pearl Harbour was bombed on Dec 7th, 1941. 4 days later, Germany and Italy declared war on the US. Hitler had wanted to earlier, but couldn't convince the Reichstag he had the means. But once America had declared war on a German ally, it was easy for him to pass the measure. Congress made a counterdeclaration on Germany & Italy the same day.

Either way, the comparison is absurd.

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Uh-oh is right. The question was "is there a link", not "did Iraq attack the U.S. with al Qaeda". The commission DID find evidence of links between the two and the growing likelihood that they would strengthen that relationship. Uh-oh, to you.

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This is dreaming. The commission came out, plain as day, and said they "found no collaborative relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda". Their words, not mine. As for the "links":

The commission staff, in yesterday's report, said that while bin Laden was in Sudan between 1991 and 1996, a senior Iraqi intelligence officer made three visits to Sudan, and that he had a meeting with bin Laden in 1994. Bin Laden was reported to have sought training camps and assistance in getting weapons, "but Iraq never responded," the staff said. The report said that bin Laden "at one time sponsored anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan."

Wow. It's like they were best friends.

The commission has said over & over there was no link. Bush & Cheney were stretching the truth or going on intelligence that wasn't credible.

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Yeah, good idea, let's all have a fucking bake sale to raise money for the U.S. troops. You Kerry supporters are entirely too much. Your candidate says the war was underfunded, didn't use enough troops, and our service men and women didn't have enough equipment. You then proceed to say that Bush spent too much when your candidate actually would've spent MORE, raised TAXES, and still have been stuck with entirely the same mess.

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Whoa, hey, easy now! Neither one of us were arguing the merits of one candidate over another, or discussing econiomic policy. I was just saying I don't think there's a lot of money lying around for another military assignment right now. Nothing to do with Bush, Kerry or the election.

VOTE OR DIE.

I'd like to come in and comment that trying to say WW2 and the current war are very alike is retarded and trivializes WW2.

There are so many huge differences, you really should give up on the argument while you can.

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Symbolism over substance. If you didn't get enough of it with Clinton, be sure to vote another sleazy, two-faced liar into office. Hopefully when Kerry obstructs justice, he will be removed, not just impeached.

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Bush is far from not a sleazy, two-faced liar, either, he may be a little less so, but to make up for that he adds the insult to injury of being a horrible representative for our country. And his vice president is DICK FUCKING CHENEY, who fits your sleazy liar description about 80 times more than Kerry could ever hope to.

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Take an economics class from a professor who knows what the hell he is talking about. Taxes have never and will never solve economic problems. They are bandaids. How many people on welfare better themselves because we steal from the wage earners to give them money? The answer is a shit load less than would benefit from more jobs being created by business who have tax burdens lessoned. This is not conservative rhetoric; It's economic common sense.

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Okay, I'll yield the businesses point. It would be best, of course, to put those do-nothing welfare earners on a rocket into the sun, but alas that's un-PC. However, I still think that top income earners earn way more than is necessary, and that if their wages don't stop growing and widening the gap, taxes need to put them in a more realistic earning range. No doubt that looks bad, the big bad gov't being borderline communist Robin Hood types and redistributing wealth, but there does have to be some point where someone says "okay, you're earning way more than is justifiable for your qualifications while public schools are criminally underfunded and our troops are earning a pittance, it is safe to say that we need this money more than you." It's less Communism and more setting boundaries on how much more well-off than the majority certain people honestly need to be.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

g0zen: Name one thing I've said that you'd like me to source, because you think it isn't true. Notice that qualifier at the end, because I expect you to be embarassed in return for my extra effort on your behalf. Please, call me on my shit.

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I'd say just scroll back a few pages, but I obviously can't count on you to take any sort of initiative on your own. Also, you're not going to 'embarass' me by showing your sources, that's just not how things work. Let's get started.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

I've never seen so many people cross party lines to support a presidential candidate the way democrats are supporting Bush, John Kerry represents the limousine liberal minority.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

This is spin. You show me documentation, articles, polls, etc. Otherwise you're making the same propaganda statements any right-wing talking head will make to try and make it seem like no-one likes John Kerry. News flash, if this were true it wouldn't be nearly this close a race.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

In a recent poll, 42 percent of republicans are completely happy with George Bush, 22 percent of Democrats are completely happy with John Kerry.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

What poll? Source your info or it's useless.

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

I'd like to come in and comment that trying to say WW2 and the current war are very alike is retarded and trivializes WW2.

There are so many huge differences you really should give up on the argument while you can.

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I really can't read this thread anymore. It's debased itself to a gay mudwrestling competition.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Symbolism over substance.

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That would make perfect sense, if Bush had any substance to fall back on.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

If you didn't get enough of it with Clinton, be sure to vote another sleazy, two-faced liar into office.

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You call Kerry a two-faced liar, I call Bush an opportunistic devious scumbag. Whatever happened to transparency in our government? What was Bush trying to hide when he blocked the formation of both a Senate and independent 9/11 Commission? Why has he sealed the records of the energy summit between his Vice President Dick Cheney (former C.E.O. of Halliburton) and Kenneth Lay (former C.E.O. of Enron) not long before Enron collapsed from America's biggest case of accounting fraud? Why did he invoke antiquated privileges to try and keep Condoleeza Rice from testifying before the 9/11 Commission? Why did he and Dick Cheney not truly testify before the Commission and why were the comments they did make done off the record and behind closed doors? Time and time again this administration has hidden its true agendas from the American public..Yet, Kerry is the liar?