The Peaks of the Genres for this Generation

I have a hypothesis that I would like to test. In order to do so, I need some data from my fellow posters at TNL. Here is what I am looking for in this thread. I would like each of you to post what you feel is the best representation of each of the following genres during the current generation (PC, PS2, Xbox, and GameCube only please):

Action/Adventure
This will include everything from Metal Slug to Grand Theft Auto and from Zelda to Doom. These genres have been so blurred that they can no longer be separated.

Platforming
Mario and Sonic and their progeny belong here. Contra is not a platformer. Neither is Castlevania. They are action/adventure games.

Racing
This one is pretty straight forward.

Role Playing
These can be turn based or real-time, but they must be based on rolls of dice for results. In other words, this is Final Fantasy, not Zelda. MMORPGs also belong here.

Sports
From Madden to Tony Hawk, if its subject matter can construed as a sport, it belongs here.

If my hypothesis is correct, it will likely turn into a story for TNL, so please take this seriously and follow the guide below to put yout choices in the right place.

I will start things off with my list:

Action/Adventure
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City

Platforming
Sly Cooper and the Thievious Raccoonus

Racing
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2

Role Playing
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

Sports
ESPN NFL 2K5

I would say Role Playing becuase it gets me more involved and i can have more fun with them than just running around and shooting stuff and whatnot. But there havent been many good rpg's to come out in awhile, unless im just retarded and cant find them.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Action/Adventure
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City

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Have you played San Andreas yet? It outclasses VC in every conceivable way.

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Platforming
Sly Cooper and the Thievious Raccoonus

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I'd vote for Maximo. Sure it's got a lot of action but there's enough platforming to justify its inclusion here.

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Racing
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2

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Gotta be Burnout 3.

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Role Playing
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

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No argument here, although I'd argue GTA:SA also deserves to be here. Its role-playing component is so strong that it at least merits consideration.

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Sports
ESPN NFL 2K5

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Not really qualified to comment.

Action/Adventure
Lord of the Rings: TT/ROTK (I'm a sucker for all that is LOTR)

Platforming
Not impressed with all that much in this category. I'll go with Sly.

Racing
Burnout 3

Role Playing
Shadow Hearts: Covenant
Honorable Mention(s): Star Wars KOTOR & Morrowind+

Sports
NFK2K5

Personally I think the line between pure action and action/adventure is much clearer than the line between action/adventure and platformer. 3D plaformers really are just action/adventure games much of the time.

Action/Adventure: Beyond Good and Evil

Platforming: Prince of Persia: Sands of Time

Racing: Outrun 2

Role Playing: Tales of Symphonia

Action/adventure: Metroid Prime

Sports: Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4

Roleplaying: Honestly, RPGs have been really poor this generation

Racing: F-Zero GX

Platform: I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Jumpingflash

Roleplaying: Honestly, RPGs have been really poor this generation

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I disagree. RPGs in the traditional, turn-based, stat-driven, linear, JRPG sense have been very poor. But this generation has taken the genre into boundary-breaking directions (KOTOR, GTA:SA). So I'd actually argue that RPGs are better than ever.

Genres are silly.

Also, are fighting games classified as action/adventure games or are they just not on this list? It's missing a couple genres actually.

Action/Adventure
Halo, but only for the multiplayer. Since that feels to me it should be a seperate category I'll go with Metroid Prime.

Platforming
Prince of Persia: SOT

Racing
Project Gotham Racing

Role Playing
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

Sports
NHL Hitz, 'cause the only time sports games really interest me are new franchises.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Action/Adventure
This will include everything from Metal Slug to Grand Theft Auto and from Zelda to Doom. These genres have been so blurred that they can no longer be separated.

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I like the premise of this thread but this genre definition is crazy! I can see saying that GTA and Zelda can be in the same category(though I don't agree) but Metal Slug?!?! How the fuck is that anything like adventure?

There really has to be an "Action" category all its own. Action/Adventure really just means a game with a nice long quest(adventure)but you do all the combat real time(action).

Action Adventure: Stretch Panic.

...just kidding. Ratchet & Clank 2: Going Commando (once I buy 3, I'll probably change it). Beyond Good & Evil is nipping at its heels.

Platforming: Sly Cooper

Racing: ...Mario Kart: Double Dash?

Role Playing: Tales of Symphonia

Sports: Uh...

Wait, where's Fighting?

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Originally Posted by Glass Joe

I like the premise of this thread but this genre definition is crazy! I can see saying that GTA and Zelda can be in the same category(though I don't agree) but Metal Slug?!?! How the fuck is that anything like adventure?

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Ah, but Metal Slug is not from this generation!

Personally I would do away with the Platforming category and lump it in with Action/Adventure. If games like MS no longer merit their own category, then neither do platformers.

Action/Adventure
Up until this gen I wasn't even slightly interested in FPSs but Halo converted me. The single player game was brilliant even when it got a bit repetitive and the multiplayer couldn't be beat.

Platforming
Haven't been into the platformers much this gen but Klonoa 2 knocked my socks off so I'll give that my vote.

Racing
This isn't my genre, I've only like about 6 racing games since I started playing games. But I did have a really good time playing Burnout 3 with some friends a little while back.

Role Playing
Nothing comes close to Star Wars: KOTOR, this is the one genre I've lost the most intrest in since the 32 bit days.

Sports
I know a whole lot of people disagree but Mat Hoffman 2 is still the best of all the Tony Hawk style games I've ever played. I spent more time on that title alone than any other game in the sub-genre.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Personally I think the line between pure action and action/adventure is much clearer than the line between action/adventure and platformer. 3D plaformers really are just action/adventure games much of the time.

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This I completely agree with. Many people are using the term platformer more based on cute/kid's themes than gameplay today unfortunately. The term has virtually lost all meaning.

There aren't nearly enough genre categories for my liking and most of my favorite games this gen aren't listed because of this but here goes:

Action/Adventure - Deus Ex. BG&E rules too.

Platform - Prince of Persia: SoT.

Racing - OutRun 2.

RPG - Star Wars: KotOR. If my Morrowind game didn't get ruined it might have been my pick.

Sports - There are too many games to keep up with so I kind of sacrificed playing this genre. I'll buy some eventually.

I haven't played San Andreas yet but it sounds like potentially the coolest game ever.

Action/Adventure
Right now, San Andreas. We'll see what happens when Half Life 2 hits.

Platforming
Prince of Persia was awesome, but PoP2 could be better (again, we'll see soon). And I really liked Sly Cooper 2 (I actually played it to the end). Until I play PoP2, Sly 2.

Racing
Burnout 3

Role Playing
Don't play.

Sports
SSX 3

I think your Action/Adventure definition is too broad though.

Action/Adventure - Quake 3, probably, unless it isn't part of this generation.

Platform - Sands of Time

Racing - Burnout 3

RPG - No idea. Could I say Deus Ex?

Sports - Tony Hawk's Underground 2

Action/Adventure - Metroid Prime (tough call though. I do think Action and Adventure should be split. My adventure pick would be Ico.)

Racing - Burnout 2 (that's right, Point of Impact. Takedown's AI ruins the game)

Sports - Aggressive Inline (I hate skating/xtreme sports but this game rules)

RPG - Deus Ex: Invisible War (Yes, I consider it an RPG)

Platformer - Vexx (pure old-school platforming that most of you missed out on. I don't consider Maximo/PoP/R&C platformers - they're action games with platforming elements. Vexx, Sly, Klonoa 2 are pure platformers)

Action/Adventure
half-life 2 looks like it has a shot at this category, but for now, it's san andreas. the sheer scope of the game is enough for me to overlook the graphic and control-related issues. honorable mention goes to metroid prime.

Platforming
ico. the art design and atmosphere push it beyond prince of persia, even though the game isn't as complex.

Racing
ima have to go with burnout 3 here.

Role Playing
knights of the old republic. unless torment/deus ex count as current-gen.

Sports
unreal tournament 2004. :link:
runner up: ssx3

edit: wow, only one japanese game. quite a change from a few years ago.

Action/Adventure
DMC/Ninja Gaiden/Prince of Persia

in FPS
Half Liife 2/ Far Cry/ Metroid Prime/ Halo 1&2

And new ideas in Riddick and Breakdown

Platforming
Sly Cooper/R&C

Racing
Burnout 3

Role Playing
Shadow Hearts Series
KOTOR

Sports
Have no idea

Action/Adventure:
Waaaaayyyy too hard of category to choose because the way you have it set up it really isn't a single category... but in this setting I'll go with:
Metroid Prime

Platformer:
Sly Cooper and the Thevious Raccoonus - Don't even have to think about that one, it's easily one of my favorite games from this gen.

Racing:
I'm not in the least bit qualified to vote in this category.

RPG:
Star Wars KOTOR owns my soul.

Sports:
THUG.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Action/Adventure
This will include everything from Metal Slug to Grand Theft Auto and from Zelda to Doom. These genres have been so blurred that they can no longer be separated.

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I'll join the chorus of those who say this definition makes no sense. I see what you're getting at; alot of action games this gen have adventure elements - inventory management, character growth etc. But it's a major disservice to lump shooters, action, adventure, survival horror, fps, action rpgs and whatever else into one category.

I don't see how you can put those games together and then give a sub-genre like platforming its own category, so I won't. If you're trying to make a master list or something, then just disregard my straying from the boundaries.

Action: Ninja Gaiden - Captured the frenetic feel of a ninja movie better than anything before it. The fact that they keep releasing content for it is just icing on the cake. Honourable mention: Shinobi, Rygar, Dynasty Warriors 3.

Shooter: Halo - As near as I can tell, shmups up and died with the DC, leaving FPS to dominate the category. Ask me again in a few weeks and I may have a different answer, but for now nothing's gotten more play this gen than the first Halo. Honourable mention: Chronicles of Riddick, Battlefield 1942.

Survival Horror: Silent Hill 2: Restless Dreams Quite possibly the most disturbing, psychological game ever, with the mother of all gutshot endings. Honorable mention goes to Fatal Frame & Onimiusha.

Fighting: Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution - if I'm ever put in jail, I know what I'm doing with my time. Until that point, this game's too insanely demanding for me or anyone else I know to get into. Still the best fighter this gen. Honourable mention: Soul Calibur II, King of Fighters 2003

Action Rpg & Platforming Off the top of my head, I don't think I've been blown away by anything that strictly belongs in these two categories that was developed this gen. I'll pass on naming games just for the sake of naming them.

Racing: Rallisport Challenge 2 Once I got the control scheme figured out, I found the Rallisport series as addictive as any driving game since R4. And RV sucked. Honourable mention: Project Gotham Racing 2, Burnout 3.

Role Playing: The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - Game of the Year Edition - Morrowind kills anything in the category with its ridiculous breadth and incredible writing (how about those novels you find?). Honourable mention: Suikoden III (hey, I liked it), Romance of the Three Kingdoms VIII (I'll toss it in here because it's evolved into something of a strategy rpg).

Sports: ESPN NBA 2K4 - Would've been 2K5 hands down, but for some reason they made the insane exclusion of multiplayer season mode, which I'm still bitter about. As it stands, NBA 2K4's the most fun I've had with a sports game this gen. Honourable mention: ESPN NFL 2K5, World Series Baseball 2K3.

Action/Adventure: Zelda: Wind Waker
Platforming: Mario Sunshine
Racing: F-Zero GX
Role Playing: Phantasy Star Online: Episode 1 & 2
Sports: Tony Hawks Underground 2

I think you guys arguing over the definition of the genres are missing the point. Obviously, the genre definitions are completely arbitrary (as they would be in any thread like this). Yoshi has given you fairly complete genre definitions and asked you to pick out your favorite game of that genre based on these definitions. Arguing with the definitions of the genre is pretty pointless, since any other definitions would be just as arbitrary.

Action/Adventure
Ico: I have never been imerssed so much as I was in this game. It really fringes on Platformer, but I have more traditional opinion twords Platforming. Runner Up: Metroid Prime

Platforming
Vexx: Worst character design ever, best platformer since Mario 64. The game has more just pure platforming than any platformer I have played since Skullmonkeys. Plus its got plenty of challange, bottomless pits, and fantastic environments. Runner Up: Super Mario Sunshine

Racing
Project Gotham Racing 2: Great graphics, lots of cars, lots of courses, and gameplay that makes you learn more than just racing lines. Sure its a sequal to a game(s) that already invented the Kudos system, this one just did it better and offered more. Runner Up: Burnout 3

Role Playing
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic: Best Star Wars game ever made, bar none. Better storyline than anything Lucas has written in recent times, great characters, amazing worlds. And conversations come into gameplay, rather than just cycling through text. Runner Up: I did'nt like any other RPGs


Sports
ESPN Hockey 2k5: Hockey games rule, ESPN makes the best Hockey game. Runner Up: ESPN NFL 2k5

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Originally Posted by flux=rad

I think you guys arguing over the definition of the genres are missing the point. Obviously, the genre definitions are completely arbitrary (as they would be in any thread like this). Yoshi has given you fairly complete genre definitions and asked you to pick out your favorite game of that genre based on these definitions. Arguing with the definitions of the genre is pretty pointless, since any other definitions would be just as arbitrary.

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I don't think it's being arbitrtary at all. I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find 5 people who think that Zelda, Metal Slug and Doom are all in the same genre. Those games have almost nothing in common.

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Originally Posted by sleeveboy

I disagree. RPGs in the traditional, turn-based, stat-driven, linear, JRPG sense have been very poor. But this generation has taken the genre into boundary-breaking directions (KOTOR, GTA:SA). So I'd actually argue that RPGs are better than ever.

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GTA:SA is rpg in what way?

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

GTA:SA is rpg in what way?

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Originally Posted by me in the official thread

Anyone else think GTA has reached RPG status?

I mean shit, you increase your skills at driving, shooting, holding your breath and running. You can customise your character in terms of looks, and physical ability. You explore a large world, interact with a lot of chracters, get new weapons with better abilities, do sidequests and mini games and it has an engrossing story.

I would call this an action rpg before I would call Zelda an action RPG.

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Anyway:

Action/Adventure
1: Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
2: Beyond Good & Evil
3: Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker

Platforming
1: Prince of Persia Sand of Time
2: Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando
3: Klonoa 2 Lunatea's Veil

Racing
1: Burnout 3
2: Project Gotham Racing 2
3: Colin Mcrae 4

Role Playing
1: Disgaea: Hour of Darkness
2: Final Fantasy X
3: Kingdom Hearts

Sports
1: SSX 3
2: Hot Shots Golf Fore!
3: I don't really play sports games

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I don't think it's being arbitrtary at all. I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find 5 people who think that Zelda, Metal Slug and Doom are all in the same genre. Those games have almost nothing in common.

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I agree that few would agree that Zelda, Metal Slug, and Doom are in the same genre. But this doesn't lead me to belive that clear delineations of genre are not arbitrary. Ask those people to put Zelda, Metal Slug, and Doom into their genres, and I think you'd get as many answers as people you asked. My point is simply that genre arguments go nowhere. Yoshi has pretty clearly defined the genres for this discussion, so there is little reason to get into genre arguments here.

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Originally Posted by flux=rad

Ask those people to put Zelda, Metal Slug, and Doom into their genres,

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Action rpg, action platform, fps. I've never heard them called anything else, unless Slug is tossed into some generic shooter category.

I thought metalslug was just a sidescroller

RPG - Shenmue
Racing - Project Gotham Racing 2
Platformer - Sly Cooper
Action-Adventure - Beyond Good and Evil
Action RPG - Zelda: Wind Waker
Extreme sports - Jet Grind Radio
Fighting - Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution

Without giving anything away. The answers (other than the pointless genre arguments) are fitting what I thought I would see very well.

Just for the record, Metal Slug was mentioned as action/adventure because I didn't want that type of stuff in platformers. There are basically no more pure action games, so breaking that out is stupid. Platformers still exist. I think Doom, GTA, and Resident Evil are abolutely the same genre. In fact, the only difference in them is the point of view. They all involve battling, solving puzzles, and managing inventories.

In any case, keep the responses coming.

Action/Adventure
Otogi 2 / Wind Waker

Racers
PGR2

Roleplaying
KOTOR

Action/Adventure
still Halo

Platforming
unquestionably Mario Sunshine

Racing
PGR2

Role Playing
have no time for RPG's, fuck 'em

Sports
Winning Eleven 7

Action/adventure - Ninja Gaiden
Platforming - Prince of Persia: sands of time
Racing - Burnout 3
RPG - Morrowind
Sports - Deathrow (future sports count, don't they?)

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Without giving anything away. The answers (other than the pointless genre arguments) are fitting what I thought I would see very well.

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if i had to guess, i'd say you're getting at a "tnl lovers the western game devs" kinda thread.

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Originally Posted by epmode

if i had to guess, i'd say you're getting at a "tnl lovers the western game devs" kinda thread.

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That's what I was thinking too although if that is the reason I don't think the genres listed give that accurate a picture of people's tastes. Wario Ware and Pikmin 2 are two of my favourite games this era but they don't fit into any of the genres listed. And not including the Dreamcast takes away some of the best Japanese games this era like Jet Grind Radio.

Action/Adventure
Grand Theft Auto - Series: It just keeps improving on the formula from GTA3. San Andreas is clearly the best of the series so far, and at this rate the next installment might top even that.


Platforming
Klonoa 2 - I enjoyed these games, but then again the only platformers I played this gen were this, Maximo, and Super Mario Sunshine. And I liked those as well.

Racing
F-Zero GX - Yeah, I'm not too concerned what racing snobs think. If it weren't this, it'd be Outrun 2 or Mario Kart.

Role Playing
Shenmue - Yes.

Sports
not interested

Action/Adventure - Guilty Gear #R, followed by Metriod prime. Thinking MP was a solo western project would be a stretch though.

Platforming - Unsure at best.

Role Playing - ToS? I rather enjoyed FF:CC as well as long as I had 4 people.

Sports - ESPN 2k5, most likely.

Action/Adventure: Legend of Zelda: WInd Waker
How you could notpick this game. Perfect controls, Best graphics this entire generation hands down and preety much solidifies Link position of the greatest Nintendo Franchise hands down
Runner-Up: final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles. Four people,Four GBAs and it is the one of the funnest games this gen. Funner than even say GTA:SA

Platformer: Mario Sunshine
this is a really tough decision. You got the Jak,Ratchet and Clank, Glitch in the system,Klona2 and Sphinx.Hell even Sonic made a grab for the top but at the end of the day it was still the King mario. Grabbed the Mario 64 engine, upgraded it with a wacky concept like a water gun and gave us a lot of control. That is the most important thing in a platformer:)

Role-Playing: Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga.
You know after all this revoluntiary stuff lkke KOTOR,Fable and FF:CC you kinda got sick of it. I wanted to slap a western developer and tell him
"I don't care about being good/bad(KOTOR,Fable you listening) I don't want to buy 4 GBAs to play the best part of a game(FF:CC) or any crap like that. I just want a good story that will make me worry,make me laugh and make want to play t'ill the end" runner-up: TOS, Paper Mario 2

Racing: F-Zero
Its the best racing game of the gen. Its kinda funny. NFS:U went for the street racing gimmick, Burnout just wanted you to crash into other cars( which I can't believe no one is offended by) and almost every other game is a rip off of those two. F-Zero put you in space and let you race. Really fast racing. No weapons, No women you can win by racing(No one is offended by that either) and other crap

Sports: ESPN football 2K5. Hands down best football game of the year that overlooked by Madden. The same madden that barely improved from last year.

The fighting genre is on its last leg people. The last huge fighting game that got big sale and complete coverage was soul calibur.

Action/Adventure
hmmm so hard to pick just one in a broad category Metroid Prime, and Viewtiful Joe

Platforming
hmmmm, it's hard to pin one here I'll list 3 Maximo, Sphinx and the Cursed Mummy, and Beyond Good and Evil

Racing
F-Zero GX

Role Playing
Disgaea

Sports
only sports games I like are volleyball so I'll have to say Beach Spikers

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Originally Posted by Destin

Action/Adventure - Guilty Gear #R

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:wtf:

Yeah, that was a noodle scratcher for me as well.

Subject matter aside, San Andreas is the greatest video game released this generation.

I'm looking at Half Life 2 to give it some competition, but we'll see. I've no doubts HL2 will be excellent, but it's just so narrow and specific a game (which isn't a bad thing, mind, it just is).

San Andreas is the most impressive form of video game I have ever seen. That simple, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

I'm looking at Half Life 2 to give it some competition, but we'll see. I've no doubts HL2 will be excellent, but it's just so narrow and specific a game (which isn't a bad thing, mind, it just is).

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HL2, Halo 2 and Prince of Persia 2 are the only games this year that have hope of competing with GTA SA, and I doubt any of them will surpass it. Still, top 5 is nothing to be ashamed of.

HL2 will. HL2 will fuck your brain.

Bet GTA can't fuck brains.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

:wtf:

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Wanted to put it somewhere, didn't know where to put it (with the lack of a fighting game column)

Get off the fence and pick one game per category, you pussies.

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Originally Posted by Destin

Wanted to put it somewhere, didn't know where to put it (with the lack of a fighting game column)

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You know what's sad? I did not overtly decide to not have a fighting category. I just care so little about today's fighting games that I completely forgot about it as I made this thread.

I'll say fuck the platform genre in favor of seperating action and adventure.

Action: Ninja Gaiden
Honorable mentions: Ratchet & Clank GC, Halo

Adventure: Ico
Honorable mentions: GTA: SA, Sphinx

Racing: Burnout 3 (until 75% in, when the AI becomes unbearable)
Honorable mentions: PGR (haven't played 2), Extreme G3

RPG: Mario & Luigi
Honorable mentions: Disgaea, Paper Mario

Sports: SSX 3
Honorable mentions: Top Spin, SSX Tricky

Action/Adventure
Grand Theft Auto 3 (Haven't played enough of San Andreas, and 3 was better than Vice in my opinion)

Platforming
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time

Racing
PGR2

Role Playing
KOTOR

Sports
SSX Tricky

Action/Adventure:
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas

Platforming:
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time

Racing:
Burnout 3: Takedown

Role Playing:
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne

Sports:
ESPN NFL 2K5

Action/Adventure
Shinobi I guess...

Platforming
Rayman 2.... I dunno if that counts

Racing
F-Zero GX

Role Playing
Tales of Symphonia

Sports
Don't really play sports games

Rayman 2 is a platformer, and a fantastic one at that. And since it did come out on the PS2 your in the clear.

Why wouldn't the DC count as being a part of this gen?

because sega sucks.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

You know what's sad? I did not overtly decide to not have a fighting category. I just care so little about today's fighting games that I completely forgot about it as I made this thread.

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As opposed to, the old fighting games, or you just don't like the genre?

Action/Adventure
Ninja Gaiden

Platforming
POP:Sands of Time

Racing
Burnout 3

Role Playing
KOTOR

Sports
SSX 3

Fighting
DOA Ultimate

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Originally Posted by Jeremy

Why wouldn't the DC count as being a part of this gen?

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Because no one here owned a DC, and no one had one game they liked for the DC that they do not own.

Oh, and Go XBOX, GO MICROSOFT, GO WHITE PEOPLE, GO AMERICA

<3 KOTOR

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Originally Posted by Destin

As opposed to, the old fighting games, or you just don't like the genre?

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Yes, as opposed to "old" fighting games.

The DC was great and had the greatest RPG( can you call it a RPG) of all time, Shenmue

The fighting genre sucks. I don't think their is one huge fighting game coming out untilk next year.

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Originally Posted by remnant

The fighting genre sucks. I don't think their is one huge fighting game coming out untilk next year.

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Um, what game would that be, that is bigger than VF4, both Soul Caliburs, Tekken Tag, SF3, and GGXX?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remnant

The DC was great and had the greatest RPG( can you call it a RPG) of all time, Shenmue

The fighting genre sucks. I don't think their is one huge fighting game coming out untilk next year.

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korian?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by remnant

The DC was great and had the greatest RPG( can you call it a RPG) of all time, Shenmue

The fighting genre sucks. I don't think their is one huge fighting game coming out untilk next year.

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You could pick Shenmue 2? :D

Opaque style (including jacking all of his formatting because I'm lazy):

Action/Adventure
1: Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
2: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
3: Halo

Platforming
1: Super Mario Sunshine
2: Prince of Persia Sands of Time
3: Star Fox Adventures

Racing
1: Burnout 3
2: I don't play racing games very often.

Role Playing
1: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
2: Disgaea: Hour of Darkness
3: Dark Cloud 2

Sports
1: WWE Smackdown! vs. Raw
2: Madden, (pick a year)
3: Soul Caliber 2. Fighting could be sport

Action/Adventure
1: Prince of Persia: Sands of Time
2: Viewtiful Joe
3: ICO

Platforming
1: Sly Cooper (Haven't played 2 yet though)
2: Super Mario Sunshine
3: Jak and Daxter

Racing
1: F-Zero GX
2: Burnout 3
3: Don't play much racing

Fighting
1: Soul Calibur 2
2: Guilty Gear XX # Reload
3: Dead or Alive Ultimate

Sports
1: NBA Street Vol. 2
2: SSX3
3: Don't play much sports

"Action/Adventure" is wayyyyyyyyyy too broad. You're comparing Ninja Gaiden and Zone of the Enders to ICO and Zelda.

Best action game: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner (easy)

Best adventure game: ICO (easy)

Best platforming: Ratchet and Clank: Up Your Arsenal

Best Racing: Colin McRae Rally 2005 (easy)

Best Fighting: If Dreamcast counts, MvC2. If not, Guilty Gear XX

Best RPG: I don't pick tallest midgets.

Best Sports: I don't pick tallest midgets.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

Best action game: Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner (easy)

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Maybe I should change my answer... I love that game a great deal. I am just having a tough time trying to recollect all the action games Ive played in the past... what four years? But yeah, ZOE 2 was just so damn good.

Edit: Oh yeah, and then there is Metroid Prime. I always have such a terrible time with lists like this. Too many damn good games to leave out.

RPG: Morrowind
Racing: Burnout 3
Platform: Ratchet & Clank 3
A/A : Halo 2 if that counts as A/A
Sports: ESPN NFL 2K5

Whatever genre Beyond Good and Evil goes into, I nominate it for that.

That game surely kicks the shit out of Wind Waker.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Yes, as opposed to "old" fighting games.

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Thats really interesting. I consider the current fighting game releases to be stronger, even given the time gap. The market is dying, and therefore the community is in bad shape, but the games themselves have all really broken some great bounds. Back in the day, you had first wave, which was the two big ones, SF and MK, which were all well in good, but thats not a terribly great state for the fighting game market. Now, we have 2 well defined genres, and within them, multiple different game styles. 3S covers new ground of yomi with parrying, we have a game (MvC2) which is a good deal of spacial zone control, CvS2 if you like games sucking, and #R as a combination of all of them minus CvS2, with a bit of ST thrown in. The 3d sides have seen great strides as well, with only tekken 4 being dissapointing. I really sometimes don't understand where the idea that the current state of fighting games is worse spawned from. Is it that they have not progressed as much as you would have like given the time frame they have been allotted? I'm actually quite curious.

Edit: Mark, didn't MvC2 come out for every system known to man? I swear I could load that up on my toaster.

WInd Wasker is head and shoulders above Beyond Good and Evil. BGE is good but not that good

BG&E made all of WW's flaws stand out even more, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by remnant

WInd Wasker is head and shoulders above Beyond Good and Evil. BGE is good but not that good

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I totally agree, WW is a far better game. BG&E was good though.

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Originally Posted by Destin

Now, we have 2 well defined genres, and within them, multiple different game styles. 3S covers new ground of yomi with parrying, we have a game (MvC2) which is a good deal of spacial zone control, CvS2 if you like games sucking, and #R as a combination of all of them minus CvS2, with a bit of ST thrown in.

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See, I would not consider 3S as a new fighting game. That and Mark of the Wolves are major reasons the older games blow the newer ones away.

Are we talking all time ("for this generation" implies that)? I think FPS's deserve their own catagory, and Half-Life, especially, Counter-Strike was the game to really bring a TON of people into the FPS online gaming community. I still to this day have yet to play an online FPS that runs as fluidly and lag free (on a good server with a good connection of course) as Half-Life does. So far this year I would have to say that Tribes Vengeance takes the cake.

Best Fighter - CVS2, Garou Mark of the Wolves, Last Blade 2
Best Racer - Gran Turismo 4 for realism and Burnout 3 for arcade style
Best New Game Concept/Misc - Katamari Damacy (I never get tired of it)
Best Shooter - Gradius V, ESP Rade
Best Platform - The last one I really played alot that I like was Mario 64! You have to admit that game was breakthrough though...

All I really play alot is FPS's, Racers and Fighters. It takes a really, really fucking good game to get me to play outside of these genres.

Metal Slug is an action game or action/shooter if you like. Plus there's plenty of pure action games. Gungrave, DMC, Shinobi, ZOE 2, Metal Slug, Contra SS etc. Not many beatemups anymore though. The Double Dragon, Final Fight, SOR, and Spikeout days are over it seems.

Action - DMC. Shinobi comes close.

platformer - Um I dunno... Shinobi?


racer - Sega Rally 2 was the high point when it first came out. F355 technically is the best though if I compare all the games now though.

RPG - PSO if it counts. Otherwise I would have to go with SOA. I havent played KOTOR though.

Sports - ESPN NHL2k5 easily

Other genres.

Fighting - VF4 EVO. Best game ever, you cant fukk wit it.

shooters - Mars Matrix

FPS - Halo

Puzzle - Super Puzzle fighter turbo

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Originally Posted by SXA

BG&E made all of WW's flaws stand out even more, in my opinion.

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Exactly.

BG&E actually had water travel that wasn't half assed and boring, and the puzzles were actually fun to solve rather than the same old Zelda puzzles Nintendo has shoved down my throat for the last 10 years.

I'm going to make some alterations here. I feel they are in order.

Action
Rez

Adventure
GTA: San Andreas - Even though I haven't played it yet, from what I know about it it looks like it could easily be the best adventure game yet!

Platforming
Viewtiful Joe

Racing
Smashing Drive

Role Playing
Final Fantasy XI

Sports
Sega Soccer Slam

Fighting - 2D
Guilty Gear Isuka

Fighting - 3D
Don't play, but I'd say Virtual Fighter 4 Evo

Music/Rhythm
Taiko Drum Master

Avant-Garde/Quirky
Katamari Damacy

Survival Horror
Silent Hill 2

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Originally Posted by Beefy Hits

Racing
Smashing Drive

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Haha, awesome.

But I hope you don't really mean it.

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Originally Posted by Andy

HL2 will. HL2 will fuck your brain.

Bet GTA can't fuck brains.

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Actually, theres probably a stat for it.

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Originally Posted by Beefy Hits
Racing
Smashing Drive

Haha, awesome.

But I hope you don't really mean it.

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I sure did. It's my little way of protesting how much I hate racing games because they are so hard and boring. The only way they have a chance with me is if :
1.) They are simple, arcadey, and unrealistic (think smashing drive, or outrun 2, SF Rush)
2.) They have easy, realistic controls. I can drive a car w/o an accident, why not a race car? Granted, it's going like 40mph faster, but still.
3.) They don't take themselves too seriously.

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The fighting genre sucks. I don't think their is one huge fighting game coming out untilk next year.
Um, what game would that be, that is bigger than VF4, both Soul Caliburs, Tekken Tag, SF3, and GGXX?

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Ahhhh.. Guilty Gear Isuka, Samurai Shodown 5 Special, DOA Ultimate, or Capcom Fighting Evolution anyone?

So wait, what genre would Rogue Squadron be?

RTS - Pikmin 2 is the game I had the most fun with. I'm tired of all the other genre entries, and I've been tired of them since starcraft. Rise of rome, Empire Earth, Rise of Nations, all that crap is bigger, but it's tired. I'd like to see a Dungeon Keeper sequel. Warcraft 3 was decent as well.

What about turn-based strat? Is that under RPG? I'd pick Advance Wars over Advance Wars II. Representing Nectaris hardcore. Or are we excluding GBA?

Action/Adventure - Way too tough to call. Metroid Prime which will probably stand up to Echoes, since when the first is so perfect the sequels rarely improve on the experience. (See: Castlevania, peaking at SotN, MegaMan, and 2d Metroid fusion/zero.) It satisfied my own twisted desires to be able to scan just about everything, and I would get angry with other players when they didn't. You get as much story as you want. Brilliant. Zelda, BGE, I could go on for days with great games in this category. Especially since you don't have FPS as a separate category, and there were so many strong entries here. Call of Duty being my favourite.

Platformer - A bunch of awesome ones on GBA, even though many are remakes/sequels. I haven't played too many current-gen console platformers, so I can't pick. When Maximo made me incredibly sad, I kind of stopped playing them. Nowhere near as fun as the old Ghosts 'N Goblins series I heard it was continuing/paying homage to. But the heart encrusted boxers did happily reappear. Mario Sunshine could not come close to capturing the magic that was Mario 64. So empty.

Roleplaying - Has to be Kotor. Blew me away. Told a great Star Wars story the way George Lucas can't anymore. Learning about the Wookie planet was fascinating, and the gameplay was outstanding if you could get used to it. I know a lot of people who didn't give it a chance because of the odd, dry play. I'm urging them to try again, I don't find it dry at all. FF let me down. Morrowind currently owns my life.

Sports - Winning Eleven Seven. Or maybe one of the good snowboard games, like Amped. I'm a fan of the hockey games, but they aren't the most fantastic. Links 2004 honorable mention.

Racing - Mario Kart really let me down with the crap multiplayer maps. Waverace was great, but not as good as the N64 game. With this category it's often the newest games that take all the glory, and right now that game is Burnout 3.

Then you have to consider best multiplayer experience on and offline, though Burnout 3 is so strong only because of its multiplayer, and shmups, which really don't fit any other category. Dunno what I'd pick in any of those though.
Edit: Fighting games are also their own category, I believe, with many significant entries this gen.

Edit Edit: Shit RTS is not a category. Sorry, I just came from the other Best Genre thread.

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Ahhhh.. Guilty Gear Isuka, Samurai Shodown 5 Special, DOA Ultimate, or Capcom Fighting Evolution anyone?

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Having personally played a few of those titles, they really don't stand up terribly well, I guess CFJ is still in the air though.

All the great fighting games are sequels. capcom is not lets say interested in fighting games any longer. tecmo your last great hope is making half-ass fighting games(DOA:Ultimate) and building franchises on it. ( DOA: extreme beach Volleyball, Ninja Gaiden, DOA: Code Cronos) the only fighting game coming out soon that I think will be great is that new King Of Fighters game. But compared to other genres(even racing) it can't compete anymore. Fighting games are soon going to join the hall of lost genrs like point and click games.

The fighting system in Zelda is better than Beyond good and Evil and the puzzles are not that better than Zeldas( what is every one deal with sailing? Learn the Ballad of Gales I think it is called and you cut the time of sailing into 2 minutes. The sailing only long for 3 hours of the game) Ask yourself would these puzzles been so old if I did not play past zelda games. Some gamers are extremely critical of sequels.They expect the same feeling of awe every time they play the sequel. Some like me don't mind and see the game for how good it is. Others are pissed when they don't get the feeling and start attacking the game. I knew I will not feel the same pulling the master sword out of the pedestal in WW that in OoT or link to the past but I didn't hold it against the game.

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Originally Posted by remnant

All the great fighting games are sequels. capcom is not lets say interested in fighting games any longer. tecmo your last great hope is making half-ass fighting games(DOA:Ultimate) and building franchises on it. ( DOA: extreme beach Volleyball, Ninja Gaiden, DOA: Code Cronos) the only fighting game coming out soon that I think will be great is that new King Of Fighters game. But compared to other genres(even racing) it can't compete anymore.

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Whoa, Capcom is still in the fighting game buisness, Street Fighter Collection and Capcom Fighting Jam have both just come out.

And if you're referring to the new 3d KOF, then :yuck:

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Originally Posted by remnant

Fighting games are soon going to join the hall of lost genrs like point and click games.

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Just like Comedy is a genre for games?

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RTS - Pikmin 2 is the game I had the most fun with. I'm tired of all the other genre entries, and I've been tired of them since starcraft. Rise of rome, Empire Earth, Rise of Nations, all that crap is bigger, but it's tired. I'd like to see a Dungeon Keeper sequel. Warcraft 3 was decent as well.

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Dude, youre an idiot. Did you even try Rise of Nations? It wasnt like Empire Earth or really any other RTS game. It was like real-time Civilization II, and the endgame battles are the 2nd most intense shit around. If you dont want to engage in fucking crazy intense, high-pitched battles for cities, then well you're (A) a pansywillow, and (B) worthless.

And yea, the most intense shit around is... yea, Warcraft 3. Nothing else touches it.

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Originally Posted by BrAnDX105

Whoa, Capcom is still in the fighting game buisness, Street Fighter Collection and Capcom Fighting Jam have both just come out.

And if you're referring to the new 3d KOF, then :yuck:



Just like Comedy is a genre for games?

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Yes fighting games are dying. Am not saying don't play them.

The comedy genre is my personal taste. A lot of people see GTA and true Crime as car part of a "carjacking" genre. It just depends on how you see it. You may not agree but i will always see Sam and Max as great funny games and put them in MY own genre for them. the " comedy genre"

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I don't think it's being arbitrtary at all. I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find 5 people who think that Zelda, Metal Slug and Doom are all in the same genre. Those games have almost nothing in common.

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Summed up nicely. I thought Edge magazine was pushing it when they put Halo and Ikaruga into the same genre. But at least they gave a respectable enough reason. That being the player acquires targets and shoots them.

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Originally Posted by remnant

Yes fighting games are dying. Am not saying don't play them.

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In comparison to how many fighting games were released in past years? I really have to disagree with you, new DOA just came out, Guilty Gear XX Reloaded, and now Isuka, Capcom Fighting Jam and Street Fighter Collection, Capcom Vs SNK, these are all fighting games that came out with in a 4 month range. I wouldn't call 6 DIFFERENT fighting games within 4 months a dying genre, but that is just me.

The genre is not dying by any means, it is just not as strong as before.

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Originally Posted by BrAnDX105

In comparison to how many fighting games were released in past years? I really have to disagree with you, new DOA just came out, Guilty Gear XX Reloaded, and now Isuka, Capcom Fighting Jam and Street Fighter Collection, Capcom Vs SNK, these are all fighting games that came out with in a 4 month range. I wouldn't call 6 DIFFERENT fighting games within 4 months a dying genre, but that is just me.

The genre is not dying by any means, it is just not as strong as before.

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You just proved his point.

Dead or Alive Ulitmate is a remake of Dead or Alive 2 (with online support, which is a really nice addition all things considered, but the game still plays like DoA2).

Guilty Gear XX#R is an update to GGXX, which was an update to GGX, which was an update to GG. At least Guilty Gear Isuka is a different (if flawed) concept.

Street Fighter Anniversary Collection is a anaglamation of the old-school Street Fighter games and a rerelease of Street Fighter 3: Third Strike. Capcom Fighting Jam is an anaglamation of five different Capcom engines with almost no new content.

SNK vs. Capcom is a crossover project, was due to come out four to five years ago, and is complete ass.

So we have a remake, a rerelease, an update, two mismashes, and a steaming pile. GGI is the only game with any freshness to it. Really no worse than the rest of the industry, but fighting games do not have the luxury of being the popular thing (like WW2-era FPS games and free-roaming adventures in crime). There are many reasons as to why this happened; my pet reasons are how the developers released too many incremental updates too quickly, flooding the market and marginalizing out anyone but the most hardcore players.

-Dippy

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Originally Posted by Dipstick

You just proved his point.

Dead or Alive Ulitmate is a remake of Dead or Alive 2 (with online support, which is a really nice addition all things considered, but the game still plays like DoA2).

Guilty Gear XX#R is an update to GGXX, which was an update to GGX, which was an update to GG. At least Guilty Gear Isuka is a different (if flawed) concept.

Street Fighter Anniversary Collection is a anaglamation of the old-school Street Fighter games and a rerelease of Street Fighter 3: Third Strike. Capcom Fighting Jam is an anaglamation of five different Capcom engines with almost no new content.

SNK vs. Capcom is a crossover project, was due to come out four to five years ago, and is complete ass.

So we have a remake, a rerelease, an update, two mismashes, and a steaming pile. GGI is the only game with any freshness to it. Really no worse than the rest of the industry, but fighting games do not have the luxury of being the popular thing (like WW2-era FPS games and free-roaming adventures in crime). There are many reasons as to why this happened; my pet reasons are how the developers released too many incremental updates too quickly, flooding the market and marginalizing out anyone but the most hardcore players.

-Dippy

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I think its because the developers just didnt bother to fix the problems and the ship sank. A lot of upgrades are fine if they actually fixed things. They just added more content until players got sick of it. SF is still not on a competitive sport level of balance yet through its tons of updates. Sure its better than the original where Guile couldnt lose except to Dhalsim but it isnt that much better. MK took a step back from SF and just added blood. Tekken is Tekken ahaha. SC was in the right direction comapred to SB fro sure, but then SC2 came and sent that series back into the ground. So that leaves VF basically. Too bad its not flashy enough or cool enough to raise the genre out of its ashes. So the only hope is a SF4 that is really great. Or if Tekken and Mortal Kombat actually become good games.

PS. If rockstar doesnt worry about frame rates, their HORRIBLE fighting and horrible shooting mechanics soon, GTA will get ran into the ground pretty damn soon too. GTA3 1 sized levels with max payne/ spikeout gameplay with 60fps( if they cant get GTA 3 scope with 60fps then make it smaller, it would still be super varied) would be lightyears better than Sanandreas.

I think the biggest fighting games now are the fighting "spoofs" games like Super Smash bros. and such. Not a lot of skill but they sell extremely well.
VF is the only good fighting series left. capcom hasn't bothered making a hyped,3d Street Fighter game that can stand out. All their 3d games kinda got lost in the mesh( I can't even remeber their names)
Mortal Kombat sucks, always has and alays will and it kinda our fault. When you think of VF or SF you think great graphics,strategy,skill and sometimes a little luck:) Think of MK and all you get is blood. If casual gamers hadn't been wowwed by that Midway would have been forced to rework the engine and add real content in instead of Fatalities after Fatalities.
Tekken doesn't have the name power it used to have and Guilty Gear is the last great game in a dying breed of 2D fighters.

What do you find flawed about Isuka?

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Originally Posted by Valgar

What do you find flawed about Isuka?

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Hitting a button to turn!! I played the promo of it and was pissed off by it. The game is ass. A pretty ass, but tainted.
Fighting games are far from dying, though. They just aren't the novelty that they once were, meaning we won't be seeing any gay licensed fighting games like TMNT tournament Fighters , Shaq Fu, etc. The cream of the crop have stayed, though. Every game caters to a specific audience. Saying that there aren't any good fighting games is silly.

Hitting the button to turn is the only realistic way of doing it. The other method is having an auto-turn feature like Zero 3 uses in the 2v1 mode. This would not work well in a 2v2 though.

See people always tell me this and just think about it from a developers point of view for once.

As for the graphics, it could be that it was on the Atomiswave or that there are 4P on two planes.

I just don't understand how you could consider fighting games dying, they do seem as strong in releases, new games, ect. as they ever have. Fighting games had a peak at SF, and then dropped with the american arcades. They seem to be on an upturn after that drop though. As far as the serious fighting game scene goes, it seems to be continually growing, which is good news. Isuka is like user map settings in Warcraft 3/starcraft. Some of them are really fun, interesting new uses of the engine and ideas previously stated, but it really can't compete with the masterpiece of variety and balance provided by the base game. I really enjoy isuka, but its really a totally different ballpark from standard fighting games.

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Originally Posted by Destin

Isuka is like user map settings in Warcraft 3/starcraft. Some of them are really fun, interesting new uses of the engine and ideas previously stated, but it really can't compete with the masterpiece of variety and balance provided by the base game. I really enjoy isuka, but its really a totally different ballpark from standard fighting games.

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Right, I agree with you. I still think it is really awesome and a great idea and is just a blast with my friends for a non-tourny type play. A lot of reviews are taking this as a sequel or something when it is obviously a side project / new idea. Yu Yu Hakusho (Treasure, MD) is THE best example of how this type of game should be built from the ground up.

I just don't think they are really heading in the right direction. Every great fighting game coming out now is a sequel and stuff like that. They don't get half as much coverage as a FPS or RPG.

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Originally Posted by remnant

I just don't think they are really heading in the right direction. Every great fighting game coming out now is a sequel and stuff like that. They don't get half as much coverage as a FPS or RPG.

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If you would have said that in the first place I would have agreed with you. Saying they are a dying breed is wrong, considering how many fighting games ARE being released, rehash or not, there is obviously demand for them.

But heading in the wrong direction? Absolutly! Lacking innovating that fighting games had when they were new? Absolutly! While there are original fighting games out there like GG, like Dipstick said, most of the new games are rehashes. They may be rehashes that sell reasonable number of copies, but rehashes none the less.

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Originally Posted by Valgar

Hitting the button to turn is the only realistic way of doing it. The other method is having an auto-turn feature like Zero 3 uses in the 2v1 mode. This would not work well in a 2v2 though.

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If the only way to do something is to make a fucking turn button, then it shouldnt be done. An optimal solution that is still shitty is just a shitty solution. From the developers' point of view, they shouldve axed the game when they realized they had to put a turn button.