Nintendo did it first!

Very few companies can match Nintendo's contributions to gaming. There are many instances where you can argue Nintendo created the best version of a certain type of software or hardware at the time.

This thread isn't about opinions though; it's about facts. Time and time again I have seen gamers falsely credit Nintendo for being the first to do something. Hopefully this thread will dispel some of this misinformation. Here are some common myths I come across. Feel free to add more, discuss, ask questions, etc.

Myth - Nintendo invented the 3d platformer.
http://supermario64.com/mariog6.jpg

Fact - 3d platformers go back at least as far as Infogrames' 1991 computer game Alpha Waves/Continuum.
http://old.the-underdogs.org/Alpha.gif

Myth - Nintendo invented the d-pad.
http://www.nesplayer.com/database/ac...es/control.jpg

Fact - Directional pad controllers date back to 1979 with the release of Mattel's Intellivision. Nintendo invented the cross-shaped d-pad used on some of their Game & Watch games and popularized by the NES but not d-pads in general.
http://users.knoware.nl/users/stuurm...es/mintell.jpg

Myth - Nintendo brought gun video games home.
http://acidzone.online.fr/cids-games...tolet_gris.jpg

Fact - Gun video games didn't originate in the arcades anyway. Gaming's first console, the Magnavox Odyssey, had gun games and other companies like Coleco released home gun games in the 1970s.
http://www.rolentapress.com/rolenta/...ssey-rifle.jpg

http://www.steverd.com/whatpong/telstar-marksman.jpg

Myth - Nintendo invented exercise games.
http://www.atarihq.com/tsr/nes/pp-sidea.jpg

Fact - The NES Power Pad was originally a Bandai product in Japan but besides that the concept for consoles wasn't new. The Exus Foot Craz Activity Pad was previously released for the Atari 2600.
http://www.atariage.com/2600/control...usFootCraz.jpg

Myth - Nintendo invented the portable.
http://www.imgcab.com/gameboy/gb_image/old/gbo01box.gif

Fact - A decade before Game Boy, Milton Bradley released the first programmable portable game system, the Microvision.
http://www.olufs.com/jens/microvision.jpg

Myth - Nintendo made the first console analog controller.
http://www.chronicgames.net/pics/n64...er_unboxed.JPG

Fact - The Atari 5200 had the first console analog joystick.
http://www.atari-computermuseum.de/pics/thumbs/cx52.jpg

Myth - Nintendo's Samus was the first human female main character.
http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/ima...etroid-box.jpg

Fact - There were a handful before Metroid, for example: Wabbit, Halloween, Girls Garden, Flashgal, and Sega Ninja.

Myth - Nintendo was the first to make a console with four controller ports.
http://www.particles.org/n64/DSCF0067.JPG

Fact - The Bally Professional Arcade had this in the late '70s.
http://www.retrogoodness.com/shrine/graphics/0012.jpg

Myth - Nintendo invented the side-scrolling platformer.
http://ar.geocities.com/peloso_oviedo/info/mario1.gif

Fact - This is a tough one to pinpoint an exact origin because genre definitions vary but no matter what definition you use, Super Mario Bros. wasn't first.

Exhibit A) - Hoei's 1981 arcade game Jump Bug. It scrolls and you jump on varying elevations. By the definition I go by this is the first side-scrolling platformer as far as I can tell. On the other hand, it doesn't feel like a typical platformer at all. The scrolling is forced, you continuously bounce and your vehicle shoots to attack.
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/.../wJump_Bug.png

Games like 1982's Pitfall! and Smurf aren't included in this discussion based on the technicality that their screens flip instead of scroll. Taito's Jungle Hunt does have a sidescrolling level although most of the game is flip screen.

Exhibit B) - Sierra's 1983 computer game B.C.'s Quest for Tires. This is closer to SMB-style platforming than Jump Bug. It scrolls and involves jumping over obstacles but it doesn't have jumping to various elevations, an aspect some consider a necessary genre trait.
http://www.c64gg.com/Images/B/BCs_Qu..._Tires.ss1.gif

Exhibit C) - Namco's 1984 arcade game Pac-Land. This is similar to Quest for Tires but it does add the aspect of jumping to different elevations, making it meet all the same requirements SMB does. There are other games from 1984 like Capcom's Son Son that arguably fit the category but with Pac-Land around there's not much point in mentioning them.
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/.../xPac-Land.png

Are you trying to say Nintendo did nothing.

Yeah those are all facts but Nintendo popularized almost all of them. Companies make copies of game boys not microvisions.
If Atari analog stick was so great it would not have had to be brought back with The 64 controller.
Mario is the original side scroller and made it a genre. Period. It has always been this way. For ex.. Doom was not the first FPS game it was Castle Wolfeinstein but Doom was so popular that other games were made like it and Doom is given the honor of being a father of the genre.

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Originally Posted by remnant

Are you trying to sxay Nintendo did nothing.

Yeah those are all facts but Nintendo popularized almost all of them. Companies make copies of game boys not microvisions.
If Atari analog stick was so great it would not have had to be brought back with The 64 controller.
Mario is the original side scroller and made it a genre. Period. It has always been this way. FOr ex.. Doom was not the first FPS game it was Castle Wolfeinstein but Doom was so popular that other games were made like it and Doom is given the honor of being a father of the genre.

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I predicted you would come in here and miss the entire point of the thread. Read the first two paragraphs again.

They popularized all those things (except the gun) they should be given some credit.

Interesting.

But I've never heard anyone say these things about Nintendo.

Nintendo's history with lightguns dates back much further than the Zapper though, right? In fact, didn't they get started with lightgun videogames in the early 1970s (Laser Clay Shooting, Wild Gunman, etc)?

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater, previously

There are many instances where you can argue Nintendo created the best version of a certain type of software or hardware at the time.

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Originally Posted by remnant

They popularized all those things (except the gun) they should be given some credit.

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See? Why not read for a change and not make a knee-jerk reaction. These are just the fact. No one is dismissing Nintendo for this, calling them blantant hacks and rip-off artists or saying that there contributions to these things were not worthwhile. These are just facts, as NeoZ always is kind enough to share them, and lends more insight into the history of videogames - which you as a gamer should appreciate. Not attack.

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Originally Posted by jarrod

Nintendo's history with lightguns dates back much further than the Zapper though, right? In fact, didn't they get started with lightgun videogames in the early 1970s (Laser Clay Shooting, Wild Gunman, etc)?

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Games like the original Wild Gunman use projection screens of some kind but from what I gather they aren't technically video games.

Super Mario Bros was more revolutionary due to it's relatively non linear, progression based (rather than score based) game design and emphasis on environmental exploration (not that it was necessairly the first to do those things either). There were plenty of scrolling platformers before it, but it really broke the mold not only on platformsers, but game design in general.

Nintendo generally isn't an inventor but rather an innovator.

Pitfall 2 is the earliest side scrolling game I can think of that would fit the bill of being comparible to SMB.

I apologize if you were offended but I don't care about facts to old things that don't matter. To me Mario is the original Side scroller

Actually, the one thing you missed, is the one thing that is said the most.

Nintendo saved console gaming.


Everything else you said, I agree with what remnant said: "Nintendo popularized it".

Just because you invent something, and no one buys it ... doesn't equate you as a success. You have to bring it to the masses in such a way that you define what IT is.


Kleenex didn't invent tissue paper ... but now its known as Kleenex.

Thank you Toxic. Thank you! For a week you are my god. That is all I was trying to say. Now if he can prove that Nintendo didn't save console gaming we will have a little brawl.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Games like the original Wild Gunman use projection screens of some kind but from what I gather they aren't technically video games.

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Why would you think that exactly? They're games using a form of video interface after all, how do we define "video game"?

http://www.pinrepair.com/arcade/wildgun1.jpg

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Originally Posted by remnant

I apologize if you were offended but I don't care about facts

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We noticed.

your facts Saint, your facts

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Originally Posted by remnant

I apologize if you were offended but I don't care about facts to old things that don't matter.

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poty.

Very cool writeup. Although I've heard most of these myths before, I think most of us here knew that Nintendo didn't originate these things, but then TNL is special like that.

Also, Alpha Waves and the Microvision rock, and remnant needs to leave TNL.

How about Nintendo creating the kart racing genre (Super Mario Kart) and the classics compilation genre (Super Mario All-Stars)?

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Originally Posted by Yamcha

How about Nintendo creating the kart racing genre (Super Mario Kart) and the classics compilation genre (Super Mario All-Stars)?

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How about more controversially, Nintendo originating the ARPG (Zelda no Densetsu) SRPG (Fire Emblem) genres? I've actually seen plenty of people miscredit SRPGs to starting with Sega & Shining Force believe it or not.

To the people (remnant and toxic) bitching about Nintendo popularizing these things: so? This thread isn't about who popularized these, it's about who did them first. NeoZ isn't insinuating that these were somehow more popular or better than Nintendo's products, he's just saying they were first.

It's an interesting read, and if you don't care about the topic remnant, don't be a bitch about it. This obviously took some effort to put together unlike anything you've ever done here.

Nice thread idea, Neo. I figured you'd do something about myths industry-wide, but this is cool (unless, of course, that's what you're planning to do later).

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Originally Posted by Yamcha

How about Nintendo creating the kart racing genre (Super Mario Kart) and the classics compilation genre (Super Mario All-Stars)?

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Thats not a genre. Its a just a modification on a racing game really..


You can give Nintendo credit for being the first at one thing..


First company to induce headaches using red led's and mirrors.

http://www.retrogoodness.com/virtual_boy/mainpic2.jpg

remnant, it's painfully obvious that you like Nintendo, but part of being intellectually informed is to keep an open mind. NeoZ wanted to set the facts straight but no one is disputing the fact that Nintendo popularized them.

Amazing thread. Neo, thanks for setting the facts straight. But, sadly, fanboys dont care about the facts. Ill also bring up that Ive talked at lengths about the fantasy that Nintendo "saved the videogame industry" in the mid 1980s.

Great thread as always, NeoZeedeater. Seeing a shot of Continuum makes me miss all the old DOS games I used to play on top of the other interesting information here.

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Originally Posted by Brisco Bold

Nice thread idea, Neo. I figured you'd do something about myths industry-wide, but this is cool (unless, of course, that's what you're planning to do later).

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I would support this sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

remnant needs to leave TNL.

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I would support this sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Amazing thread. Neo, thanks for setting the facts straight. But, sadly, fanboys dont care about the facts. Ill also bring up that Ive talked at lengths about the fantasy that Nintendo "saved the videogame industry" in the mid 1980s.

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I won't argue that someone else might've stepped up maybe (Sega perhaps) but Nintendo definitely kickstarted the consumer market with NES & Super Mario Bros. The world over actually.

The fact about Nintendo saving/notsaving the industry is rediculous. no one will ever know what would have happened IF Nintendo didn't do what they did. It is all speculation.

Except the industry was still viable, and some of the best games ever came out during the so-called slump. Commodore and friends made ton of money from 1983-1985. Im not speaking hypotheticals, Im speaking facts. Its just that the 2600 ran out of steam and all the best games started coming out for computers. Nintendo didnt save the industry because the industry didnt need saving. All that shit about Nintendo saving videogames is just Nintendo propaganda. The winner writes the history, after all.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Except the industry was still viable, and some of the best games ever came out during the so-called slump. Commodore and friends made ton of money from 1983-1985. Im not speaking hypotheticals, Im speaking facts. Its just that the 2600 ran out of steam and all the best games started coming out for computers. Nintendo didnt save the industry because the industry didnt need saving. All that shit about Nintendo saving videogames is just Nintendo propaganda. The winner writes the history, after all.

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Okay... Nintendo saved the console industry. We're all in agreement. :)

They didnt save it, they were just in the right place at the right time. There was a slump, and they capitalized on that. Good timing, but nothing more. The industry was in a slump in 1995, too, but nobody says the PSX saved gaming and shit. Even though the PSX did a lot more for the industry than the NES did. And we wont even get into Nintendo's bullshit monopolistic thuggery of the late 1980s, which did the industry more harm than good overall.

you really do have trouble giving credit where credit is due..

I agree with everything but the Intellivison thing, which I believe has already been covered by a very old thread. The Intellivision Disc was not created to be used the way people use it now (after using the Nintendo invented "Control Pad"), the Intellivision Disc is just a flat joystick made so the controllers snuggly fit in the bays on the console. Try finding a manual on the console and look how it's supposed to be used.

The NES control pad IS the prototype game controller, and if you say otherwise Gumpei's ghost will get you.

Who cares who did it first. You would not be playing many side scroller games if not for mario. Its one thing to make something and another to make it better and that is what everyone gives Nintendo credit for doing. If those side scrolling games were better than mario bros. we would be talking about them and not the oher way around. Its one thig to make something and completely different to make it good.

Nintendo is the rason we are here right now and why the industry is where it is at. Gaming was still big on PCs true but they would not expand on the PC becuase a lot of gamers would not buy an apple just to buy a few games. the NES is the prototype every console today has been built on.

There is no doubt that the winners write the history. "Nintendo propaganda" can't change the minds of the people that lived through it.

There obviously was some amazing shit made on the computers during the "down time" of consoles, but do you think gaming would be as good or better today if Nintendo didn't come in and clearly salvage the CONSOLE market? I don't think the computers of the day would have changed the course of gaming(especially console gaming) the way the NES did.

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Originally Posted by remnant

Who cares who did it first.

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People who are interesting in the history and evolution of gaming.

Christ, Neo is not attacking Nintendo or saying they don't have an important place in gaming history. You're not a soldier in Nintendo's army and these aren't the trenches, so lighten up and take this for what it is instead of trying to turn it into some big insult against Nintendo.

Fine, It ain't an insult and Nintendo has never contributed nothing to the industry which is what the thread is all about. He dispelled the rumours and showed Nintendo as a lying company that spreaded propaganda around the industry. I guess this thead just proves that.

people who are intersested in the evolution of gaming don't dig up ghosts of the past but take and improve the present. Sony evolved the industry, Nintendo involved the and Sega in their crazy way evolved it the most. Not atari

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Originally Posted by remnant

Nintendo has never contributed nothing to the industry which is what the thread is all about. He dispelled the rumours and showed Nintendo as a lying company that spreaded propaganda around the industry.

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I believe this news.

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Originally Posted by remnant

Fine, It ain't an insult and Nintendo has never contributed nothing to the industry which is what the thread is all about. He dispelled the rumours and showed Nintendo as a lying company that spreaded propaganda around the industry. I guess this thead just proves that.

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To get emotionally invested in something as rigidly factual as media history is worthless. Never was it insinuated that Nintendo lies or has spread propaganda. They're a corporation, for goodness' sake. Their goal is to make money above all else, not to be creative masterminds or great inventors, nor does it have to be.

Neo wasn't disefranchising Nintendo with his myth-busting, he was pointing out the origins for many of Nintendo's reputed innovations.

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Originally Posted by remnant

Fine, It ain't an insult and Nintendo has never contributed nothing to the industry which is what the thread is all about. He dispelled the rumours and showed Nintendo as a lying company that spreaded propaganda around the industry. I guess this thead just proves that.

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...what?

You can't possibly be THIS stupid. Saying "Nintendo didn't originate platformers" is not the same as saying "Nintendo didn't popularize platformers" you douche. Everyone knows Super Mario Bros. was the first HUGE platformer, and the game that set the standard for every platformer since, NeoZ is just saying it wasn't the first.

You're way too emotionally invested in this.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

They didnt save it, they were just in the right place at the right time. There was a slump, and they capitalized on that. Good timing, but nothing more. The industry was in a slump in 1995, too, but nobody says the PSX saved gaming and shit. Even though the PSX did a lot more for the industry than the NES did. And we wont even get into Nintendo's bullshit monopolistic thuggery of the late 1980s, which did the industry more harm than good overall.

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We still run on the console model Nintendo laid out two decades ago... in fact Kutaragi's network/content delivery ambitions for PS2 (now moved to PS3) sound strikingly similar to Yamauchi's original intentions for Famciom. Follow our lead indeed. ;)

Right place, right time is a diservice to the marvel of Nintendo's game design, which is really what saved console gaming and pushed NES to it's astronomical heights (the platform still hasn't been outsold in America). Super Mario Bros was so influential as to actually make a name within the popular culture, a claim only a select few game series can really make (several of which come from Nintendo).

I'd also say there's a world of difference between the 'slumps' of 1984 and 1995 ('95 was primairly due to western publishers mismanaging their product lines, not consumers losing confidence in the medium and dropping their hobby all together). I'd also say you don't really grasp the disparity between a market 'slump' and a market 'crash'.

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Originally Posted by remnant

Fine, It ain't an insult and Nintendo has never contributed nothing to the industry which is what the thread is all about. He dispelled the rumours and showed Nintendo as a lying company that spreaded propaganda around the industry. I guess this thead just proves that.

people who are intersested in the evolution of gaming don't dig up ghosts of the past but take and improve the present. Sony evolved the industry, Nintendo involved the and Sega in their crazy way evolved it the most. Not atari

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Take a ritalin and sit down. If you're not interested in digging up ghosts or whatever just find another thread. You're reading too deep into... well, I'm not sure what, but whatever it is, you need to put it down.

Back on topic... Thanks for yet another cool fact-finding job, Neo. Very interesting. The control pad thing may be pushing it a bit, though.

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Originally Posted by remnant

people who are intersested in the evolution of gaming don't dig up ghosts of the past but take and improve the present. Sony evolved the industry, Nintendo involved the and Sega in their crazy way evolved it the most. Not atari

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You are staggeringly stupid.

You are so stupid, you physically wound me. My brain aches with the torment you have inflicted with these words.

Your post echoes in the halls of internet stupidity, it stands triumphant atop the podium of ignorance.

...

Otherwise, neat post Neo, though I don't see many people bandying about Nintendo inventing X or Y - here at least, I mostly see people bashing Nintendo about Z and C :P

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Originally Posted by Interpol

Interesting.

But I've never heard anyone say these things about Nintendo.

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:lol: Then why was it interesting that he debuff rumors you've never even heard before? That's seriously awesome.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

:lol: Then why was it interesting that he debuff rumors you've never even heard before? That's seriously awesome.

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Because it's neat to see what people have been saying about Nintendo? So, just because I've never had anyone say to me "Nintendo created the platforming genre," it's not possible for me to take interest in such a thread?

You know what would be interesting to me? Naming yourself after a good band.

I'll get right on it, sir.

You know what would interest me? A turkey sandwich so I'm out of here.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

I believe this news.

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So since "Nintendo has never contributed nothing", you believe they've contributed something?

A double negative is a positive, but since this is diff, positivity in any form is impossible.

Diff just hates Nintendo period...

I think Mario touched his "speical place" when he was a child.

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Originally Posted by JMET

Diff just hates Nintendo period...

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I love you JMET.

And Jeremy. I love you too.

<3 <3 <3 <3

That's two hearts for each of you. ^____^

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

You know what would be interesting to me? Naming yourself after a good band.

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He's right, actually. Interpol sucks.

Though I agree with what he has to say about this thread.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

You know what would interest me? A turkey sandwich so I'm out of here.

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Turkey sandwiches own all other sandwiches.

Good thread, NeoZeedeater.

remnant, you're a fucking imbecile.

Nintendo did not make these things and they got credit for it then they lied. As a company they lied and you can't disprove it. Thats all these thread means

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Originally Posted by remnant

Nintendo did not make these things and they got credit for it then they lied. As a company they lied and you can't disprove it. Thats all these thread means

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No, it isn't, you're just too fucking stupid to actually understand the purpose of threads like these. And that's saying something because it's really quite easy to figure out.

I swear, in addition to being the dumbest douchebad to show up here in quite some time, you're also the most overly-sensitive little pansy as well. It's a thread about some misconceptions people have about Nintendo (note, it's NOT about hings Nintendo has "lied" about, or do you not understand the concept of the public having a misconception?) and you're making it out to be some horrible attack.

I'm convinced you're not Korian. Even he wasn't this stupid.

Jesus, I know it's not standard practice to ban people unless they're outright flaming, but can't we bend the rules this for this one? There should be a certain point where the absolute worthlessness and stupidity of a poster detracts from the board just as much as an outright troll, I'm sure pretty much everyone here is in agreement that remnant has long since crossed that line.

Did I cross that line, love?

No, you at least occasionally say something worthwhile, diffy-poo. ^_______~

diffx's apparant location makes up for any harm he may have done in the past.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Did I cross that line, love?

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You can be an opinionated condescending twat, but at least you occasionally contribute something worth reading, and obviously know your stuff.

remnant's worthless in every possible way, and I'm convinced he has no cognitive abilities whatsoever if he's actually offended by this thread.

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Originally Posted by remnant

Sony evolved the industry, Nintendo involved the and Sega in their crazy way evolved it the most.

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Wait, what?

THE TRUCK HAVE STARTED TO MOVE!

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Originally Posted by remnant

your facts Saint, your facts

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...Was that supposed to make any sense?

Ah, of course not. Good ol' Remnant.

NeoZeedeater is just overflowing with gaming info. I seriously love his threads. Good stuff, dude.

great subject Neo, too bad there's so many idiots.

are there many other myths like this across gaming? or do they seem to com mostly from Nintendo?

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Originally Posted by remnant

Who cares who did it first. You would not be playing many side scroller games if not for mario.

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Lol, you can't honestly beleive that.

Do you honestly mean to imply that if Mario never came out people would have given up on using scrolling (even though they had been using it in games for many years in titles like Zaxxon and Defender) as just a fad and gone back to single screen games? Seriously, now.

I know that you know this isn't true. Let's not shit on a good thread.

I think this is the first time I've seen an awesome Neo thread get absolutely murdered by ignorance.

:(

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Except the industry was still viable, and some of the best games ever came out during the so-called slump. Commodore and friends made ton of money from 1983-1985. Im not speaking hypotheticals, Im speaking facts. Its just that the 2600 ran out of steam and all the best games started coming out for computers. Nintendo didnt save the industry because the industry didnt need saving. All that shit about Nintendo saving videogames is just Nintendo propaganda. The winner writes the history, after all.

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It wasn't just the fact that the 2600 was running out of steam though. The Colecovision was a very viable console and had graphics on par with that of the NES. Nothing could have saved console gaming at that time. Home computers were becoming the next big thing and everyone wanted a peice of that action.

People didn't just want to play the games; they wanted to have a hand a making them as well. The home computer was the answer. Look at a movie like War Games. It was a huge hit, but hardly a great storyline or movie to be exact. Yet, the movie related to the times. People wanted to feel like they were a part of the cutting edge and were doing something beyond gaming.

Nintendo just happened to step in, when the computer fad had worn down. Computers like the Atari ST and Amiga had a small gathering of devoted users, but for the most part, the general public was ready to get back into the pure basics of gaming. Nintendo fit the bill and Mario was a huge springboard to setting that idea back in motion.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Let's not shit on a good thread.

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That happened as soon as remnant opened his mouth.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Myth - Nintendo made the first console analog controller.
http://www.chronicgames.net/pics/n64...er_unboxed.JPG

Fact - The Atari 5200 had the first console analog joystick.
http://www.atari-computermuseum.de/pics/thumbs/cx52.jpg

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Wouldn't the Intellevision disc pad, provided analog steering in racing games? I remember turning the disk, to control the steering in some racing games.

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Originally Posted by Gamevet

Let's not shit on a good thread

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Originally Posted by Survival Kid

That happened as soon as remnant opened his mouth.

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Was there some kind of hidden message here, because I never said that?

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Originally Posted by toxic

Actually, the one thing you missed, is the one thing that is said the most.

Nintendo saved console gaming.

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I was only including "firsts" so it didn't really fit. Plus, people can argue that they saved North American console gaming, it's the "saved video gaming" thing that's completely false. I do think by focusing on the console aspect, people are giving themselves a very narrow view of the '80s though. The C64 is technically a personal computer but it had more in common with consoles than today's PCs. When people apply 2004 game industry concepts to analyze the industry of 1984 it does not work. Context is very important.

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Originally Posted by jarrod

Why would you think that exactly? They're games using a form of video interface after all, how do we define "video game"?

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They don't use a computer to generate images on a screen. Most people would consider this a necessary part of being a video game besides containing both "video" and "game". It's the reason games like Space War and Pong are mentioned in early video game history and Wild Gunman is not. It's not something I planned to debate though as my comment was about the myth that the Nintendo Zapper was the first home video game gun.

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Originally Posted by Yamcha

How about Nintendo creating the kart racing genre (Super Mario Kart) and the classics compilation genre (Super Mario All-Stars)?

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I don't know what the first cart racer would be but Sega's Power Drift is older than Super Mario Kart.

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Originally Posted by jarrod

How about more controversially, Nintendo originating the ARPG (Zelda no Densetsu) SRPG (Fire Emblem) genres? I've actually seen plenty of people miscredit SRPGs to starting with Sega & Shining Force believe it or not.

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ARPGs are traceable to The Temple of Apshai. My strategy knowledge is kind of weak but Square's Hanjuku Hero is older than Fire Emblem and seems to qualify as an SRPG.

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Originally Posted by Brisco

Nice thread idea, Neo. I figured you'd do something about myths industry-wide, but this is cool (unless, of course, that's what you're planning to do later).

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I don't plan on doing an industry-wide myth topic but it was a great suggestion you made previously. I didn't plan on doing any history threads anymore but I just decided to make this one this morning.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

I agree with everything but the Intellivison thing, which I believe has already been covered by a very old thread. The Intellivision Disc was not created to be used the way people use it now (after using the Nintendo invented "Control Pad"), the Intellivision Disc is just a flat joystick made so the controllers snuggly fit in the bays on the console. Try finding a manual on the console and look how it's supposed to be used.

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The InTV's d-pad functions pretty much the same as Nintendo's d-pad. I always controlled it with my thumb. I hate the InTV controller but I would definitely say it has a d-pad albeit an odd one.

Thanks for the compliments from the sane people here. :)

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Originally Posted by toxic

I agree with what remnant said

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You're dead to me.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Was there some kind of hidden message here, because I never said that?

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Dunno how that happened. Fixed.

Awesome read, I didn't even know about the four controller ports on the Bally Professional Arcade.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Thanks for the compliments from the sane people here. :)

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Why don't you write for TNL?

I thought everyone knew these things already? Almost nothing that a company is known for is something they invented, it's usually something they perfected. I do think it's crazy to say the PSX was as important to the industry as the NES, Sony didn't really do anything when you think about it other than taking the Sega Genesis marketing model and running with it.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

I love you JMET.

And Jeremy. I love you too.

<3 <3 <3 <3

That's two hearts for each of you. ^____^

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You got good politics at least. "TeeHee Hehe"

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

I do think it's crazy to say the PSX was as important to the industry as the NES, Sony didn't really do anything when you think about it other than taking the Sega Genesis marketing model and running with it.

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I think this pretty much sums it up.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/a/salohcin/20010606l.gif
I think Sony can safely be credited for making video games a common place activity like going to the movies or listening to music instead of an outcast one like Dungeons and Dragons.

Even with the aid of a comic, your point is wrong.

The Genesis was more instrumental (specifically EA sports games) in bringing new gamers into the fold. Sony just continued what the Genesis started.

Anyways, in my initial post, I didn't commend Neo on a good job. It's very interesting, and has pretty pictures ... which is good for dumb ppl like me.

But the thrust of his arguement is that this is common thinking among gamers. When actually, its only the thinking of a minority of vocal Nintendofans ... which according to console sales .... is a very small slice of the market.

I still stand by my comment that initially ... Remnant was correct. Then, unfortunately, he continued to post stupid shit.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

They don't use a computer to generate images on a screen. Most people would consider this a necessary part of being a video game besides containing both "video" and "game". It's the reason games like Space War and Pong are mentioned in early video game history and Wild Gunman is not. It's not something I planned to debate though as my comment was about the myth that the Nintendo Zapper was the first home video game gun.

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Sure... I just figured it was worth noting Nintendo's history with light gun gaming stretches back over a decade earlier than the Zapper.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

ARPGs are traceable to The Temple of Apshai. My strategy knowledge is kind of weak but Square's Hanjuku Hero is older than Fire Emblem and seems to qualify as an SRPG.

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The Temple of Apshai games are actually Roguelikes, not ARPGs (splitting hairs, I know). Zelda's usually creditied among Japanese developers though I think Adventure is usually credited in the west.

Hanjuku Eiyuu is really more of a Monster Rancher style creation/breeding/battle game, though it does have some strategic battle placement (then again, so does Lunar and most don't consider that to be a SRPG). Fire Emblem though is really credited as being the first "Tactics" RPG, where terrain/placement became to focus of the genre (an idea derived by blending the team's Famicom Wars games with RPGs elements). Langrisser, Just Breed, Ogre Battle Saga, Front Mission, Shining Force, Albert Odyssey, etc all followed in it's footsteps really.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Thanks for the compliments from the sane people here. :)

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Oh this is a great thread. I just like to nitpick. ;)

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Originally Posted by jarrod

The Temple of Apshai games are actually Roguelikes, not ARPGs (splitting hairs, I know). Zelda's usually creditied among Japanese developers though I think Adventure is usually credited in the west.

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That's the problem with genre definitions and the reason I didn't put Zelda in the first post. A lot of people don't even call Zelda an ARPG but call it an adventure game or something else. Personally, I don't know what to call it anymore. Apshai was the first to combine action and traditional RPG elements which is why I call it the first ARPG but if we're talking exploration based adventure stuff than the two games called Adventure(Crowther and Woods's 1972 text game and Atari's 1978 VCS game) are the origins. Even among Japanese stuff, Dragon Slayer(1984) and Hydlide(1985) could be called ARPGs before Zelda.

Anyway, that's why I avoid talking about Zelda and it's genre origins. ;)

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Why don't you write for TNL?

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He did once. It was awesome.

Why didn't you want to do anymore history threads?

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Originally Posted by omfgninjas

Why didn't you want to do anymore history threads?

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I guess I overdosed on them by posting them every week for over two years at TNL. It was a combination of getting sick of writing them and running out of ideas. A few different fan sites have asked me to write stuff for them and although I said I would it was bad timing as I wasn't able to drive myself to come up with anything. I'm still going to make threads on old-school games, just not many huge history ones.

Just for the record, Ralph Baer, maker of the Magnavox Odyssey, made the first light gun and light gun games for home tv video games for what would become the Odyssey, called the Brown Box back in 1967.

http://www.ralphbaer.com/images/pic%...ight%20gun.JPG

http://www.ralphbaer.com/images/bwn%20box%20w_gun.JPG

I know you already mentioned it, but I wanted to put a date on it and qualify it by stating that it was for home televisions/raster monitors.

Nintendo's first games department was founded in 1969. Their Beam Gun series started in 1970 and wasn't used on tvs.

http://www.nintendoland.com/graphics/rest/lightg.jpg

http://www.planetnintendo.com/nindb/...juuspgun-1.jpg

http://www.planetnintendo.com/nindb/...shooting-1.jpg

Laser Clay shooting was 1973 while Wild Gunman was 1976.

it bears repeating: tnl would be a better place if you wrote for the site proper, neo. even if it was nothing more than polishing up the old history threads. they're all golden.

An early EA write-up would be awesome too ... you know, before they became a soulless, demonic company.

EDIT: nevermind, I found a great article: http://www.emuunlim.com/doteaters/play4sta4.htm


The guy (Bunten) who influenced Sid Meier to do Civilization, had a sex change!! woah.

By that do you mean a success? Because nothing's changed in EA except their size.

You are too young to remember when EA defined innovation in gaming.

Then in the 90's they used that money to buy other peoples innovations.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

By that do you mean a success? Because nothing's changed in EA except their size.

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The difference is that EA in their early days as a publisher didn't buy up and gut developers. They also started off as computer exclusive and didn't originally make console games.

Good thread. Well, the first post was very good, until it got shat upon by some subsequent ones. Interesting reading. In fact it's far more interesting than any professionally produced video game article I've read or seen recently.

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Originally Posted by sethsez

No, it isn't, you're just too fucking stupid to actually understand the purpose of threads like these. And that's saying something because it's really quite easy to figure out.

I swear, in addition to being the dumbest douchebad to show up here in quite some time, you're also the most overly-sensitive little pansy as well. It's a thread about some misconceptions people have about Nintendo (note, it's NOT about hings Nintendo has "lied" about, or do you not understand the concept of the public having a misconception?) and you're making it out to be some horrible attack.

I'm convinced you're not Korian. Even he wasn't this stupid.

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Okay So Nintendo made nothing but they get all the credit and never told the truth. I remember that Nintendo used the " Innovative design never thought of. The only console EVER with four ports" during the N64 adveirtising campaign. Oh this is great. If someone lies and you don't say the truth than you are lying to and all this thread intentionally does is show Nintendo as a lying corporation. Neo never said that Nintendo is bad and I understand that but how can you say that a company has not noticed they have been getting kudos for things they didn't do for the past 20 years.

*shakes head*

Mods, please, for the love of god, do something.

Remnant speaking feels akin to the M.moore of nintendo fans. A fake name or no, its really something that needs adjustment. It continues to give us more levelheaded nintendo fans a bad name.

I just want someone to prove to me that Nintendo has no idea that they are geting credit for crap they didn't do. Oh and how the hell can I call Nintendo liars and be a Nintendo fan Destin?

Nintendo didn't lie. This thread is about misconceptions some gamers have about Nintendo, not Nintendo's claims. Aside from the four controller port thing they never claimed to do any of this stuff first and even with that it was probably just a lack of info.

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Originally Posted by jarrod

How about more controversially, Nintendo originating the ARPG (Zelda no Densetsu) SRPG (Fire Emblem) genres? I've actually seen plenty of people miscredit SRPGs to starting with Sega & Shining Force believe it or not.

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Calling Zelda an "Action RPG" is already a misconception by itself. Zelda is not considered to be a RPG since it doesn't involve statistic-building like an actual RPG such as Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy.

The term "Simulation RPG" was first coined by Nintendo with the release of Fire Emblem in 1990. Prior to that, there were Simulation games like the Romance of the Three Kingdoms series and conventional RPGs, but I believe Fire Emblem was one of the earliest games to combine elements from both genres.

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Originally Posted by Shakey

are there many other myths like this across gaming? or do they seem to com mostly from Nintendo?

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Sorry, I forgot to answer this before. There are myths about other companies' stuff, for example:

History books often list Atari's Adventure as having the first hidden thing or "Easter Egg" because Warren Robinette hid his name in the game but this had already been done before when a programmer hid his name in the demo cartridge for the Channel F console.

Atari often gets credited for making the first polygonal driving game with Hard Drivin' although Namco's Winning Run is slightly older.

The Atari 7800 often gets credited for being the first console to have backwards compatibility without an adapter although Sega's Mark III was the first console released to do this.

Data East/Technos' Karate Champ often gets labeled as the first martial arts fighting game although Ultravision's 2600 game Karate is a couple years older.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

The difference is that EA in their early days as a publisher didn't buy up and gut developers. They also started off as computer exclusive and didn't originally make console games.

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Obviously he was being facetious when he was totting EA as a company without a soul. Companies aren't people, they never had souls to begin with and therefore cannot misplace them or get rid of them. Corporations are to be looked upon as evil because they do not care about you, they only care about money.

EA puts out some quality games, a lot of quality games, and I don't think throwing them by the wayside is as clever as people make it out to be.

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Originally Posted by NeoZeedeater

Nintendo didn't lie. This thread is about misconceptions some gamers have about Nintendo, not Nintendo's claims. Aside from the four controller port thing they never claimed to do any of this stuff first and even with that it was probably just a lack of info.

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It was the USP of the ad. They were selling the system (in this advertisement) on that claim. They can make the claim as long as they can support it, even if it's b.s. So they could say 'console', and tag the old system as a home computer to get away with it.

Unique selling propositions are often forged and made up because very few of them are ever checked.

It's also possible that they just didn't know about that other system. Not many people probably do.

I'm horrified at what happened to a great thread. Remnant has made the baby Jesus throw a fucking tantrum.