Puzzle Fighter vs Puyo Pop

I have been playing the heck out of Super PUzzle Fighter II for the GBA and have pretty much mastered it, beating it with all characters on the hardest difficulty. So I'm looking for a new puzzler that's just as fun and addicting as SPFII.

I was wondering if you recommend Puyo Pop for the GBA and out of these two, which game you think is better and why?

Does Puyo Pop have better or worse graphics?

Is the gameplay deeper than Super Puzzle Fighter?

Are there countdown blocks like in SPF?

Can you do chains?

Is is it easier or harder than SPF?

Puyo Pop by a mile. Puyo Puyo is simply a much deeper, more strategic game. The abundance of modes, excellent presentation, and single-cart 4 player are icing on the cake.

Puzzle Fighter can sometimes be a slightly better multiplayer experience simply because it takes less skill and the matches tend not to be as lopsided. Much like how playing Street Fighter 3 against someone who isn't that good, Puyo Pop can be punishing to the newcomers against a seasoned opponent. Of course if you have some good competition it's a completely different ball game.

The one major flaw with Puyo Pop is that the AI is considerably less intelligent than previous games in the series. In particular, it doesn't seem to know to avoid the "kill" spot and will sometimes suicide when there is still room to drop other peices. But on highter difficulties, particularly in the secret stage, it puts up a good fight despite this.

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Originally Posted by isamu

Does Puyo Pop have better or worse graphics?

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Puyo Pop has very lovely visuals and is nicely presented around an entertaining story mode.

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Is the gameplay deeper than Super Puzzle Fighter?

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Infinately deeper. Puyo Puyo is the chess of puzzle games.

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Are there countdown blocks like in SPF?

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No, there are different penalty blocks you drop on your opponents in Puyo Puyo. Puyo Pop has a few variants of these that mix things up.

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Can you do chains?

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They're the center of the gameplay. Chaining is crucial, and learning to set up chains is the key to mastery.

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Is is it easier or harder than SPF?

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I'd say it's harder to master, but the AI is kinda dumb so they end up being about even, I'd say.

Puyo Pop is definently a far better game. It's surprisingly deep, and it's always so fun to try and beat your chain record (I love building it up so the entire screen is almost covered, and then letting it go for one massive chain) and the story is cute. The multiplayer is FAR better than SPF. SPF has unlockables, but it also only has: Story, Arcade, Multiplayer, Practice. What's a puzzle game without timed mode or endless mode?

Puyo Puyo always felt a little too random to me, at times. A scrub could sit there randomly placing shit only to have everything fall into place, wrecking your planned chain. It happened far too often for my liking, but maybe that is just me not being fast or good enough. *shrug* SPF2 is no better in the randomness department, and the catch-up in Puyo is usually much less severe than it is in SPF2 (where being one move from winning and losing looks exactly the same).

Some of the added rules from the later games (the Sun puyo, Fever mode) are just plain dumb, though. Fever mode was cool as a training drill (learning what patterns of puyo actually work well and how resiliant some patterns are relative to others), but in-game it was really stupid. ZOMG guaranteed damage!

If nothing else, the story mody is an absolute riot.

-Dippy

Now, see, I'd say that Puzzle Fighter is the bigger scrub game, while Puyo Puyo is the game where if you know your stuff, you can kill your opponent so bad you'll make them cry.

I say, both are fun, own and enjoy them both. Puyo is a bit more "think before you drop," while Puzzle Fighter is, at least when a game is good, "drop stuff like mad in a rush to get the diamond and then destroy your opponent."

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Originally Posted by Dipstick

If nothing else, the story mody is an absolute riot.

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I still love the storyline scenes from Puyo Puyo Tsu.

Puyo Puyo rules because if you know what you're doing you can UNLEASH HELL on your opponent.

Great replies guys. The recommendations are appreciated. It's interesting how the folks on the IGN board beg to differ on this subject. Here are some replies from over that you may feel free to comment on....

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Puyo Pop is a little basic. You can wrack up combos and the characters are cute, but it's not particularly deep. If you haven't played it, I'd pick up a Tetris Attack game (Pokemon Puzzle Challenge is probably the best version available).

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puyo pop is fun but its can get boring fast. I suggest chu chu rocket.

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Puyo Pop is pretty much an unrefined version of Puzzle Fighter. If you've already mastered PF, then Puyo Pop is going to seem overly basic and boring to you.

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I always prefered Puzzle Fighter myself, theres just more in the game. Puyo Pop is a bit of a stepdown I normally find.

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I always preferred SPFII as well. It just seemed more fun to me. However, that said, I second the vote for Chu Chu Rocket. That game has ridiculous replayability. It literally has thousands of puzzles to solve.

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I like Puzzle Fighter better, though hardcore puzzlers will say it's too random.

I second the vote for Pokemon Puzzle Challenge.

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Now...I'm trying to figure out why they may have this opinion. Anyone care to take a guess? And where does Chu Chu Rocket fit into all this? Is that another Tetris style puzzler?

Anyway been scouting around for Puyo Pop today and none of the stores I've called in LA have it. Arrgh :(

Chu Chu Rocket is a totally different kind of game. It is also a "puzzle" game, in the general sense, but not "puzzle" as in Tetris / Puyo / Puzzle Fighter / Etc.

I think the reason that Puzo isn't as well liked is because, to a lot of people, it comes off as being overly simple. There aren't a lot of fancy gimmicks or whatnot in it, so people think there isn't a lot to it - put four colors together, and that's it. That isn't what Puyo is about, though. Puyo is all about combos, and because of the way the game works, it takes a bit of skill (I think) to pull off the more worthwhile stuff. Sure, you can just toss colors together and hope to get something, but I don't think this is anywhere near as effective as in a game like Puzzle Fighter.

Here is a little guide that I wrote up before, giving some basic tips for Puyo Puyo. It'll give you a bit more of an idea of what kind of game Puyo is.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

Chu Chu Rocket is a totally different kind of game. It is also a "puzzle" game, in the general sense, but not "puzzle" as in Tetris / Puyo / Puzzle Fighter / Etc.

I think the reason that Puzo isn't as well liked is because, to a lot of people, it comes off as being overly simple. There aren't a lot of fancy gimmicks or whatnot in it, so people think there isn't a lot to it - put four colors together, and that's it. That isn't what Puyo is about, though. Puyo is all about combos, and because of the way the game works, it takes a bit of skill (I think) to pull off the more worthwhile stuff. Sure, you can just toss colors together and hope to get something, but I don't think this is anywhere near as effective as in a game like Puzzle Fighter.

Here is a little guide that I wrote up before, giving some basic tips for Puyo Puyo. It'll give you a bit more of an idea of what kind of game Puyo is.

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Good post and thanks for the link. Just out of curiousity, did you do a review for Puyo Puyo(any version) in any issues of GF? I'm curious to know if the series has been around that long and if there was ever a review in Viewpoint for it. If so I'd be interested in knowing what issue it was and who wrote it.

I just wanted to pop in to commend isamu for putting together a well though out post to ask for opinions. Well done, soldier.

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Originally Posted by isamu

Now...I'm trying to figure out why they may have this opinion. Anyone care to take a guess?

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Most likely they were dropped on their heads as babies. Or are just talking out of their asses. Come to TNL for the informed opinion.

Well, SPF2T basically forces you to use SOME strategy, while Puyo Puyo doesn't. For casual gamers, there's definitely more strategy used in a game of SPF2T just because it's pretty much required, while Puyo Puyo has a lot more depth once you actually get into it.

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Originally Posted by sethsez

Well, SPF2T basically forces you to use SOME strategy, while Puyo Puyo doesn't. For casual gamers, there's definitely more strategy used in a game of SPF2T just because it's pretty much required, while Puyo Puyo has a lot more depth once you actually get into it.

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The main strategy in SPF2 is just going as fast as you can. Puyo Pop does require some pacing and strategy no matter what level you play on. The different characters have different AI patterns also which makes you think out your plan as well. I don't think SPF2 reallyhas alot of entry level depth at all.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Come to TNL for the informed opinion.

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Best joke of the morning.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

The main strategy in SPF2 is just going as fast as you can.

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You'd think so, but no. Unless you're able to completely finish off your opponent, going faster will lead to them having a screen full off ammunition and a diamond, while you're desperately trying to build up the sides of your empty screen. SPFII:T has a lot of give and take, where at times you want to bait your opponent into dropping, because you need some firepower, or you've set up combos that inherently work with their drop pattern. Also, since the game has offence/defense considerations (your breaks being worth half as much if used to counter the opponents drop), watching your opponent's screen and timing becomes crucial.

I find in Puyo Pop games, you typically just do your own thing, and try to do it better than your opponent. SPFII:T has more of a battle feel to it, even if PP is more technical.

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Originally Posted by isamu

Good post and thanks for the link. Just out of curiousity, did you do a review for Puyo Puyo(any version) in any issues of GF? I'm curious to know if the series has been around that long and if there was ever a review in Viewpoint for it. If so I'd be interested in knowing what issue it was and who wrote it.

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Nope. I reveiwed it for the website, but never for the mag, so far as I remember. I did review Super Puzzle Fighter 2 for the mag, though.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

The one major flaw with Puyo Pop is that the AI is considerably less intelligent than previous games in the series. In particular, it doesn't seem to know to avoid the "kill" spot and will sometimes suicide when there is still room to drop other peices. But on highter difficulties, particularly in the secret stage, it puts up a good fight despite this.

They're the center of the gameplay. Chaining is crucial, and learning to set up chains is the key to mastery.


I'd say it's harder to master, but the AI is kinda dumb so they end up being about even, I'd say.

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Froggy....I find your comments on the AI intriguing, because I am having a bitch of a time against it in story mode. I''ve made it up to the Dark Castle just now but it was a bitch getting there. The last opponent in the stage before the dark castle(the guy that says "Yo!") was extremely hard to beat!

The bottomline is, this game cannot be approached and played like SPFII. I'm trying to break the habit of playing it in the same manner as SPF(ie going fast and breaking a bunch of gems in as short a period of time, while relying on the diamond to cut me some slack).

I know that chains are the central core of being successful at this game, but for newbs like me, it's extremely hard to pull them off. If I do them, I do them by luck. And the biggest gripe I have, is that once the AI goes crazy and throws a shitload of blocks towards my side, it is pretty much over!. I don't see how anyone can make a comeback once you have so many grey blocks and your screen is nearly filled up.

The biggest issue surrounding this scenario is the fact that there is no equivalent of a "diamond" to bail you out like in SPFII. It is very hard adjusting to the gameplay knowing you must rely on slowly "unbuilding" your Puyos and shaving them off or chaining them off one by one. This makes it a WHOLE different ballgame and infinitely harder than SPFII.

Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying the game for the time being, but I'm very frustrated right now because I suck and I want to learn and get good at it! The last thing I want to do is give up and go back to SPFII.

Puzzle fighter is not only the most overrated puzzle game of all time (Lumines is coming up on it though), but it's totally shallow.

Yes, accidental chains happen on Puyo Pop, but I don't really know how that could be claimed as "random". It's possible to accidentally go through Ninja Gaiden (NES or XBox) without getting hit all the way through too. Doesn't really mean anything.

The very fact that you can plan and plot out big chains on Puyo Puyo make it a far deeper game.

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Originally Posted by isamu

I know that chains are the central core of being successful at this game, but for newbs like me, it's extremely hard to pull them off. If I do them, I do them by luck. And the biggest gripe I have, is that once the AI goes crazy and throws a shitload of blocks towards my side, it is pretty much over!. I don't see how anyone can make a comeback once you have so many grey blocks and your screen is nearly filled up.

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If you want miracle comebacks then play Bust-a-Move 4. If you want a balanced game where a well played combo will do some real hurt to an opponent, then play Puyo Puyo. You have to kinda watch what your opponent is doing and mess them up before they get the huge chains off.

There are "easy" ways of trying to set up combos in Puyo. Eventually you learn to just think backwards and set up combos the right way, but you can just pile groupings of 3 as much as you can off to the right-most 3 colums for a bit, and then knock out something on the bottom, and you'll generally get a good 3 chain off at least. Little strategies like that help when you're starting out.

Being a huge tetris attack fan, and reading this thread, I'm totally kicking myself for never having played either of these.

I actually just played a ton of Puyo in Dr Mean Bean Machine form, and damn did I whooped his ass. I forgot how great that game is. I still prefer Puzzle Fighter due to the depth though.

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Originally Posted by Cowutopia

Being a huge tetris attack fan, and reading this thread, I'm totally kicking myself for never having played either of these.

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I like both the games this thread is comparing, but Tetris Attack blows away both of them.

Oh. Well then I don't feel so bad. :D

Puyo Puyo Fever is tops for me, I have it on my Mac and will probably buy it for either the DS or the PSP.

I knew this thread would be a trainwreck when I saw it. One side says the other side has no strategy, regardless of what side you're on, and that's the only arguments that you present.

I play both games, even though I'm fucking ACE at Puzzle Fighter and pretty poor at Puyo Pop and I can honestly say that both games have a great deal of strategy involved in them. Both games do, saying one game doesn't, regardless of the side of your argument, completely drowns you out in a sea of your own closed-mindedness.

I'll say this, for years, I played puzzle fighter thinking it was the ultimate puzzle game, and then I went to Evo2004 and I saw a guy exploiting a loophole in the game, and then he explained it to me and it worked. I sealed it in a lockbox, so don't even ask me to say it, almost ruined the game for me. Most people already know it by now. This loophole does completely erase the strategy element out of the game, for the simple fact that if your opponent doesn't know it, or doesn't choose to play like that as well, he'll lose everytime.

Now anyway, rating the games as to which one is better, I like puzzle fighter better just for the sake of the aesthetics and quality. It's a far more visually entertaining game, aside from the amount of learning required to actually get good. It has cool things like drop patterns, that serve to differentiate each character and each of their patterns, and it also has *the best* music of any puzzle game ever.

Better puzzle game? I don't know. So I guess I've contributed nothing :D

The answer is quite clear.

Devil Dice is the better puzzle game.

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Originally Posted by Do You Like Erotic?

I'll say this, for years, I played puzzle fighter thinking it was the ultimate puzzle game, and then I went to Evo2004 and I saw a guy exploiting a loophole in the game, and then he explained it to me and it worked. I sealed it in a lockbox, so don't even ask me to say it, almost ruined the game for me. Most people already know it by now. This loophole does completely erase the strategy element out of the game, for the simple fact that if your opponent doesn't know it, or doesn't choose to play like that as well, he'll lose everytime.

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Is it dropping everything to the sides as fast as possible, then using a diamond to get rid of an entire color?

More or less.

One of my friends figured it out in college. I never beat him again after. It really made me stop playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

Is it dropping everything to the sides as fast as possible, then using a diamond to get rid of an entire color?

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I would do that with Puyo Puyo. I'd pick a couple colors, and throw the ones predominantly of those colors quickly to one side, then deal with the others on the other side. It made it more manageable when the game moves quickly, and combos tend to happen fairly regularly without having to think about it.

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Originally Posted by Do You Like Erotic?

I like puzzle fighter better just for the sake of the aesthetics and quality. It's a far more visually entertaining game, aside from the amount of learning required to actually get good. It has cool things like drop patterns, that serve to differentiate each character and each of their patterns, and it also has *the best* music of any puzzle game ever.

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I think that's why I like PF more too. It's such a well put together package and is extremely easy on the eyes. The expression on the animated SF characters when they either win or lose is just priceless.

But the thing is PuyoPop IS much deeper and without a "diamond" to save you, it forces you to change the way you approach playing the game entirely, which to me, means a bigger learning curve...which I consider a good thing.

Anyway I beat Dark Castle last night.....can someone tell me how to get into the last secret stage? What's the criteria for opening it up?

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Originally Posted by Mzo

**pictures**

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Hi how's it going Mzo. I noticed your sig and checked out your photos link. Is that you in the pink hair? Are you an asian girl?

I remember there was a diamond-type thing in Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine when I played it back in the day. Well, not really a diamond, but close enough. Once in awhile, while playing, that animal thing in the middle of the screen (forgot it's name, that pet thing) would, on occasion, hop out into the playing field and just go around the board, changing all the Puyos it touches into one color. Maybe it was because I played a different game mode or something, but that was like a diamond! Dunno if that happened in any other Puyo Puyo game.

As for the topic... I prefer Puzzle Fighter. It's just more fun to me. Maybe it's just at the place I play Puzzle Fighter at, but you can't win if you just put everything to the sides and hope for a diamond. The damage on the machine has been set higher than default so by the time you get to a diamond, you'd already be dead. Matches don't last as long as if the damage was set to default on the machine, but it's still intense.

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Hi how's it going Mzo. I noticed your sig and checked out your photos link. Is that you in the pink hair? Are you an asian girl?

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Yes.

Konichiwa Japanese residents!!!!


I was wondering if any of you have seen this? Appearantly it came out last September?

Puyo Pop Fever to hop onto PC

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Originally Posted by Gamespot

TOKYO--Sega announced that it will release Puyo Pop Fever on the PC in Japan (where it is known as Puyo Puyo Fever) this September. Since its arcade debut last year, the latest installment in the popular blob-erasing puzzle game has been released on just about every other platform in Japan, including the PlayStation 2, GameCube, Xbox, Game Boy Advance, mobile phones, and even the Dreamcast. It is available exclusively for the GC in the US.

Puyo Pop Fever will feature online play via connection to other users from a free lobby server, and it will be available in two packages. The normal edition will cost 5,229 yen ($48), while the 7,329 yen ($66) package comes with a white and orange Sega Saturn model USB game pad

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Comes with a Saturn USB gamepad?

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen001.jpg

WTF? Any of you picked this up?

If so, I have a couple questions if you don't mind....

1)Can I play it on Windows 98SE? If so, are there any challenges/language barriers I should be aware of?

2)Does the game allow you to choose the opponent of your choice? Or does the game not give you control of who you play and always forces you to play someone at random? This would seem kinda silly to me.

3)From what you've read/heard/experienced, can you tell me how popular this Windows version of Puyo Fever is? I mean, are there a bunch of people playing online all the time? Or is the online community pretty small?

4)Is the online play smooth or laggy?

I don't know anything about the game... well, other than that I don't like Fever mode, and I hear the USB Saturn controller is unresponsive and nothing to get excited about. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

I like both the games this thread is comparing, but Tetris Attack blows away both of them.

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I have to second that. Paneru De Pon/Tetris Attack/Pokemon Puzzle League has to be one of my all time favorite puzzle games.

I've never played any of the Puyo games (I will remedy this problem immediately), but I've played Super Puzzle Fighter extensively. SPF is very simular to an old Sega puzzle game called Baku Baku Animal. The problem I have with both of those is that if one of the opponents do a big enough chain, a ton of blocks get dumped to the other side, and there's no way to counter that. Pretty much instant death basically. Tetris Attack is one of the best puzzle games for 2 reasons:

1)It almost eliminates random chance chains because chaining requires player interaction as they are happening. Chance chains do happen occasionally, but they are pretty rare, and it's typically a pretty small chain if they do happen.

2) No matter how big the opponent's chain, and no matter the size of the garbage block, you always have a chance of fighting back from the brink of losing. This makes for exciting and hectic matches between two good players as you have to keep eliminating the garbage blocks, while chaining and sending garbage blocks to your rival.

Does the Puyo games allow you to fight back from monster chains, or is it instant death like Puzzle Fighter?

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Originally Posted by DirtySouth

Does the Puyo games allow you to fight back from monster chains, or is it instant death like Puzzle Fighter?

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Depends on the mode. There's different kind of garbage blocks. One type goes to your opponent when cleared, and games using that type make come backs much more possible. There's another type with "strong" blocks that very hard to come back in.

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Originally Posted by DirtySouth

2) No matter how big the opponent's chain, and no matter the size of the garbage block, you always have a chance of fighting back from the brink of losing. This makes for exciting and hectic matches between two good players as you have to keep eliminating the garbage blocks, while chaining and sending garbage blocks to your rival.

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Er... while I do think that Panel de Pon is intrinsicly deeper than Puyo Puyo, what you said above is precisely why I think Panel de Pon is flawed. Although you plan out these incredible chains and big combos, the effort/risk vs reward is ruined because opponents will have an incredibly easy time breaking their lines one by one if need be and survive.

In other words, Panel de Pon might be fun because it's more "rally-style", but it's not a competitive game and that pretty much kills it for me.

O.K. I'm getting a bit better. I've beaten the story mode and I'm going through it again collecting cards and have to take this one item to some guy in the gungiligchon dungeon or whatever it's caled. But yeah, the game's startin to click with me. I'm liking it more, though it's still not as impresive as SPF in overall presentation. The different characters you can select and their own color patterns, as well as the blocks having a 5-to-1 countdown upon every block fall, is particularly what I miss from Puzzle Fighter. It just feels a bit hollow not dealing with things like this at the moment. But I'll get used to it :)

Mzo do me a favor.... can you call Nick Rox on his cell phone and ask him what's the best way to set up chains?

Yeah leave it to Capcom to always provide game breaking features in its game. Magical Drop 3 is my all-time favorite for sheer intensity. 2-player mode is just mindnumbingly furious. Puyo is very close and if you want a nice hybrid, get Puyo 4 for DC, so that adds special attacks to the mix. I have most of the Puyo games from the Genesis/Mega Drive on up, and the series is well worth getting into.

The wife has been loving Columns Crown on GBA lately, but she plays on this insane difficulty level so I have no idea what the hell is going on.

Other notables for me: Dr. Mario, Pokemon Puzzle League, Yoshi's Cookies, Tetris, Ballistic aka Puzzle Loop..can't think of the others right now...

ssb

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