What are you?

Where's the Libertarian option?

I think someone already posted this in another thread but what the hell...

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

I was a Dirty Liberal leaning Centrist.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

People die, that's not to say that I think murdering people is wrong but I do not equate aborting a baby to save the life of the person carrying it murder. It's a very very tight ethical question, if it was up to me I would outlaw abortion but in such instances as you mentioned I would probably still leave the ultimate desicion up to the person carrying the baby.

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That's some rational stuff there :nod:

I don't quite understand the exact implications of your question but I'll say this: I completely understand being afraid of death but I myself am not afraid of it, and I admit this may alter my perceptions of such things in ways that are not seen as logical or ethical.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

That's some rational stuff there :nod:

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Sarcasm or not?

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Originally Posted by Gohron

Sarcasm or not?

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Not

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Not

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Wasn't quite sure, you can give some good suprises sometimes :P

I didn't know where else to put this, but this seems like a good place considering all of the abortion talk. Gotta love tshirthell.com (their wrapping paper is really freaking funny).

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/prod...?productid=379
and
http://www.tshirthell.com/store/prod...?productid=380

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Originally Posted by Nic0

You pretty much hit the nail on the head...I do agree with those things. However, that does not make my train of thought laughable. I could say the same about yours. We hold different opinions and we both think we're right. You're just as stubborn as I am.

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Yes, actually it does. You see sperm die by the millions naturally and are replaced in the male body the same way eggs die naturally and are replenished in the female body. To take your train of thought to its extreme, all humans must begin having sex from the moment they become fertile or they are guilty of allowing their component reproductive tools to die of neglect. It's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

Yes, actually it does. You see sperm die by the millions naturally and are replaced in the male body the same way eggs die naturally and are replenished in the female body. To take your train of thought to its extreme, all humans must begin having sex from the moment they become fertile or they are guilty of allowing their component reproductive tools to die of neglect. It's ridiculous.

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How is it you came to that conclusion from my points?

Also I'm not taking it to the extreme. My position stays the same regardless of whether conservatism moves farther right or the left moves farther left because I don't base my views on society.

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Originally Posted by Nic0

because I don't base my views on society.

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Then why are children grown up in the wild devoid of language and human customs?

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Originally Posted by Nic0

How is it you came to that conclusion from my points?

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You agreed with my earlier post in that you believe life begins at conception. Thus, if life begins at conception then the two components which fuse during the act of conception are life (the sperm and the egg) in and of themselves and for someone to kill these living components or simply allow them to die, they would be (under this rationale) guilty of murder and / or manslaughter.

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Originally Posted by Nic0

Also I'm not taking it to the extreme.

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'Drawing the line' at conception essentially invalidates your entire point because you're conceding that even in your viewpoint there is a time when something is not 'life' and doesn't deserve any special treatment to 'live'. So, how is it that the point where you make that distinction is somehow more humane than where I make it?

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Originally Posted by g0zen

You agreed with my earlier post in that you believe life begins at conception. Thus, if life begins at conception then the two components which fuse during the act of conception are life (the sperm and the egg) in and of themselves and for someone to kill these living components or simply allow them to die, they would be (under this rationale) guilty of murder and / or manslaughter.




'Drawing the line' at conception essentially invalidates your entire point because you're conceding that even in your viewpoint there is a time when something is not 'life' and doesn't deserve any special treatment to 'live'. So, how is it that the point where you make that distinction is somehow more humane than where I make it?

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Wow, I guess when I wank now Ill have to do all I can to save every one of the little guys. Thanks I never thought of this before. Im going to start rallying for sperm rights...


But seriously, the two component form together to create a human life. (Im not advocating saving the existence of all biological organisms..just humans themselves, not the components, because only one sperm of the millions makes it to the egg..you can't save the millions of sperm but you can save the life it creates) It's like a battery and a remote, seperate the components are useless..but combine they become something more.

also it doesnt invalidate my point, the two components fuse and life is sparked from that, where as other arguments try to argue where life begins during the growth cycle. It's a whole different issue when you're arguing after life has begun and it's already in the growth stages.

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Originally Posted by Nic0

also it doesnt invalidate my point, the two components fuse and life is sparked from that, where as other arguments try to argue where life begins during the growth cycle. It's a whole different issue when you're arguing after life has begun and it's already in the growth stages.

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That's blatantly hypocritical. How do you come up with the idea that sperm and egg aren't 'alive' until they form to become a fertilized egg?

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Originally Posted by g0zen

That's blatantly hypocritical. How do you come up with the idea that sperm and egg aren't 'alive' until they form to become a fertilized egg?

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Thats just the way it is. Human life starts at conception.

if there is no difference between a fertilized egg and any other cell (such as the egg or sperm by itself) in the body then why does the fertilized egg grow into a human and the the other cells don't?

Moderate. I want NO new taxes, believe in gun ownership yet draw the line at assault weapons, and am for keeping the separation of church and state (though "Under God" should stay in the pledge).

I believe marriage is made for a man/woman couple but don't give a shit either way about the gay unions. If there's something wrong with what they do- let God sort them out. As for abortion- I believe in adoption instead, but feel that no laws should be made in regard to it. Again, God should be the judge.

The middle class does need to pay less in taxes. I'm against Bush's corporate whoring (he sucks up to Big Pharma, to name one).

Violent criminals should be imprisoned for life. The death penalty is over in minutes and is too easy on them. Locking them up until their final day is true justice. Non-violent criminals should just be given EMHA so that they don't have prison encounters with the real scumbags.

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Originally Posted by BriscoBold

Actually, when I was younger, Robocop was one of the most distubring movies I ever saw. I kept having flashbacks of the scene where the chick got speared by the evil dude at the end of the movie, blood squirting out of her chest like kethcup. I didn't even look at Heinz for years.

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In RoboCop 2, the scene where someone slit a guy's stomach open made me pretty queasy. The sequel definitely offers more disturbing scenes than in the first. It was Emil being eaten alive by toxic waste that I found most grisly in RC1.

The original cut of Murphy's death scene is far more brutal. So is the first version of the ED-209 boardroom massacre. Why did this not make it in? The chickenshit, cojones-lacking MPAA had threatened an "X" rating unless that and a few other scenes were watered down.

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Originally Posted by Nic0

Thats just the way it is. Human life starts at conception.

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Opinion not fact. No new life has ever started since abiogenesis. You are essentially the same biological life as your parents. Sperm and eggs are living cells, they don't die and ressurect to become new biological life. In an absolute sense, throwing all of human culture out the window, all living things on earth are just different colonies of the same life, and any distinctions we make between these "colonies" is purely conceptual.

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Originally Posted by Nic0

if there is no difference between a fertilized egg and any other cell (such as the egg or sperm by itself) in the body then why does the fertilized egg grow into a human and the the other cells don't?

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Because they only have half the chromosonal information needed to create a human. But if you think having 46 chromosomes makes you human, you official mandate the killing of people with Down Syndrome you heartless bastard.

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Originally Posted by Nic0

Thats just the way it is. Human life starts at conception.

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No it doesn't, but we're obviously going to have to agree to disagree here.

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Originally Posted by Nic0

if there is no difference between a fertilized egg and any other cell (such as the egg or sperm by itself) in the body then why does the fertilized egg grow into a human and the the other cells don't?

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I'm not saying it isn't different in that gestates, what I'm saying is that it is the same in that it is alive from before the time the egg and sperm combine to form a fertilized egg. Thus, killing these is extinguishing life, different only in the time period in which it is done.

Think of it this way, say I want to stop a house from being built. It doesn't matter if I wait till the foundation has been laid and tear it down, or if I just punch the architect in the mouth and rip up his floorplans, the end result is the same, no house is built. Saying that its wrong only if I do it at a certain point and thereafter but not before doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Nic0

also it doesnt invalidate my point, the two components fuse and life is sparked from that,

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Omne vivum ex ovo.

You're only 400 years behind the times, don't feel bad. Life only comes from life.

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Originally Posted by Mike

Well, you have to remember that after a certain point the thing has a heart that beats.

Of course, I have no problem with eating meat so I have no problem with abortion.



You don't want to get into how much I hate kids.

But anyway, by rational thought, I'm referring to the ability to override instinct. Last psychological journal I checked said that was four months or so.

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Carl Sagan says 7 - 8 months, inside the womb. Actual traces of adult brain-wave patterns. I think anything before the 3rd trimester is not terrible.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

Think of it this way, say I want to stop a house from being built. It doesn't matter if I wait till the foundation has been laid and tear it down, or if I just punch the architect in the mouth and rip up his floorplans, the end result is the same, no house is built. Saying that its wrong only if I do it at a certain point and thereafter but not before doesn't make sense.

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The problem with that is, when is the house considered built?

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Omne vivum ex ovo.

You're only 400 years behind the times, don't feel bad.

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What...you mean my maggots dont generate spontaniously!!

*drops monacle*

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Originally Posted by Mman

What...you mean my maggots dont generate spontaniously!!

*drops monacle*

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Sorry old boy, but it's the veritas. I swear on the Virgin Queen's heart. Now lets go play some croquet!

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

if abortion is murder, than is preventable miscarriage (written on the death certificate and known in medical fields as spontaneous abortion) manslaughter?

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Quoted once more with feeling.


Anyway, what I think what g0zen was saying (could be wrong). Is that what is the difference between:

* A sperm only has a chance of becoming a new conscious being if it comes in contact with an egg.

and

* A foetus only has a chance of becoming a new conscious being if it is carried in the womb by the mother.

"Any 20 year-old who isn't a liberal doesn't have a heart, and any 40 year-old who isn't a conservative doesn't have a brain."

Winston Churchill

Amend conservative to 30 and that man is dead on.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5952/unquote.html

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Originally Posted by Mike

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5952/unquote.html

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Hahaha...

That quote sucks anyway, anybody that equates intelligence with a political view (from either sides) is a fucking moron.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

No it doesn't, but we're obviously going to have to agree to disagree here.

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Agreed. Now Im not arguing anymore and returning to my precious games.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Hahaha...

That quote sucks anyway, anybody that equates intelligence with a political view (from either sides) is a fucking moron.

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Anyone who cooks bacon naked is a moron.