Would you like to know the benefits of being a Christian?

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13 Feb 2005, 03:48 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethsez

I do not, however, believe that he was really the son of God, nor do I believe he ascended to heaven.

And why is that? Is it like I said before, that you have not felt anything that says "Hey yo, its me, Jesus" ?

I don't see how someone like sethez could be considered having been given a chloise. He has never felt the presence of God to choose him.
13 Feb 2005, 03:53 AM
sethsez

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

And why is that? Is it like I said before, that you have not felt anything that says "Hey yo, its me, Jesus" ?

I don't see how someone like sethez could be considered having been given a chloise. He has never felt the presence of God to choose him.

If I was ever given proof that there is in fact a God, then you can bet your ass I'd get on my knees.

But I've never seen proof of any diety, from any religion. So I don't believe in any of them.
13 Feb 2005, 03:57 AM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

And why is that? Is it like I said before, that you have not felt anything that says "Hey yo, its me, Jesus" ?

I don't see how someone like sethez could be considered having been given a chloise. He has never felt the presence of God to choose him.

What you don't seem to understand is that people like sethez and myself just don't believe in the supernatural aspect of religion. Even if I were 'called' by God, my first reaction would be that I was having a psychological episode and I would check myself into mental clinic long before I'd go to church.

Why? Well, for me it's because I have been raised in a rational world that has no place for antiquated concepts like mysticism or religion. For me to believe there is more than just the remote possibility for God existing, I'd need something that no one has yet been able to provide; cold hard facts and solid evidence.
13 Feb 2005, 03:58 AM
Vasteel

[/QUOTE]At any rate I don't why I keep getting caught up in these pointless debates.
You are never going to sway me or my faith (I seen too much and too many of God's works to be rattled by worthless intellectualism) and I'm not going to change your mind about anything anyway. Let's just agree to disagree and be done with this.[/QUOTE]

It is not so much your faith I seek to sway, as it is your (apparent) belief that your faith invalidates, or has superiority over others'.
No one appreciates being told they're going to hell, y'know ;)
Anyway, I agree.
13 Feb 2005, 03:59 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethsez

If I was ever given proof that there is in fact a God, then you can bet your ass I'd get on my knees.

But I've never seen proof of any diety, from any religion. So I don't believe in any of them.

See, I don't think people like you should go to hell. I don't think you have been given a choice. I think the choice you got was

"hey, you want to have faith in what all these slightly fucked up dead people thought? regardless of how much it goes against the reality you live in?"
13 Feb 2005, 03:59 AM
Lucifer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasteel

No one appreciates being told they're going to hell, y'know ;)

Racist.
13 Feb 2005, 04:01 AM
arjue

LAWL
13 Feb 2005, 04:05 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

Why? Well, for me it's because I have been raised in a rational world that has no place for antiquated concepts like mysticism or religion.

You're not born and raised in TN are you?
13 Feb 2005, 04:07 AM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

You're not born and raised in TN are you?

Yes, I was.

Raised Methodist if that was your next question. Sunday school, bible camp, the works. It just didn't take. By sixteen I had 'renounced' God.
13 Feb 2005, 04:08 AM
The_Meach

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

I'd need something that no one has yet been able to provide; cold hard facts and solid evidence.

In which case...what's the point?

W/o faith, religion isn't any different from science.

One of the interesting things about faith as a concept (and I"m saying all of this in an academic sense - this is true of all religions) is that it requires the supplicant to rest on the power of their particular deity to be saved/rescued/whatever. This validates/affirms the power/necessity of the deity.

If there were just a couple of facts that could be pointed out to unbelievers and *voila* they suddenly believed...well, that sort of takes the deity out of the equation. The once-unbelieving believer could always claim, "Hey, Deity, lucky for you I'm so smart and decided to believe in you."

Many aspects of human existence are dependent on facts/figures/hard stuff (physics, chem, bio). Many involve an element of...mystery (for lack of a better term) including music, the arts and love. I used to buy into the facts/figures - ALONE style. Until I took a Shakespeare class that really opened my mind to the (intricate) vagaries of life.

Thank goodness the sum of our existence cannot be reduced to a mere collection of facts.
13 Feb 2005, 04:11 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

Yes, I was.

Raised Methodist if that was your next question. Sunday school, bible camp, the works. It just didn't take. By sixteen I had 'renounced' God.

Well then, I don't think you are being honest with us. Doesn't sound like you were raised in the envirement you claim.
13 Feb 2005, 04:12 AM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

Many aspects of human existence are dependent on facts/figures/hard stuff (physics, chem, bio). Many involve an element of...mystery (for lack of a better term) including music, the arts and love.

Thank goodness the sum of our existence cannot be reduced to a mere collection of facts.

Not necessarily, it is only that we haven't discovered everything yet. That is primarily why I prefer science over religion, it is always expanding always under revision to refine old theories and laws. There is no real absolute like there is in religion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

Well then, I don't think you are being honest with us. Doesn't sound like you were raised in the envirement you claim.

No, just because I was in a family that went to Church and did all the social functions that went along with it doesn't mean they were 'true believers'. It was always more about the social occasion than any sort of spirituality.

My 'rational' background comes mostly from my father who became an engineer when I was young.
13 Feb 2005, 04:13 AM
Jesus Christ

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

In which case...what's the point?

W/o faith, religion isn't any different from science.

One of the interesting things about faith as a concept (and I"m saying all of this in an academic sense - this is true of all religions) is that it requires the supplicant to rest on the power of their particular deity to be saved/rescued/whatever. This validates/affirms the power/necessity of the deity.

If there were just a couple of facts that could be pointed out to unbelievers and *voila* they suddenly believed...well, that sort of takes the deity out of the equation. The once-unbelieving believer could always claim, "Hey, Deity, lucky for you I'm so smart and decided to believe in you."

Many aspects of human existence are dependent on facts/figures/hard stuff (physics, chem, bio). Many involve an element of...mystery (for lack of a better term) including music, the arts and love. I used to buy into the facts/figures - ALONE style. Until I took a Shakespeare class that really opened my mind to the (intricate) vagaries of life.

Thank goodness the sum of our existence cannot be reduced to a mere collection of facts.

Shit dude, do you listen to emo too?

IM THE ENIGMA! NO ONE UNDERSTANDS ME!
13 Feb 2005, 04:14 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

No, just because I was in a family that went to Church and did all the social functions that went along with it doesn't mean they were 'true believers'. It was always more about the social occasion than any sort of spirituality.

Man, what a sucky social occasion.
13 Feb 2005, 04:15 AM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

Man, what a sucky social occasion.

Damn right, I loathed spending summers at the YMCA.
13 Feb 2005, 04:16 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

Damn right, I loathed spending summers at the YMCA.

You ever go to CampMaywoodwhatever?
13 Feb 2005, 04:18 AM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

You ever go to CampMaywoodwhatever?

No, but I did get sent to one of those Youth Fellowship seminars / sermons / concerts once. I tell ya, nothing cements either one's love or hatred for Christian music quite like one of those things.
13 Feb 2005, 04:20 AM
The_Meach

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

Not necessarily, it is only that we haven't discovered everything yet. That is primarily why I prefer science over religion, it is always expanding always under revision to refine old theories and laws. There is no real absolute like there is in religion.

If we were to say that science has not discovered everything but that it may do so...and that we supposed that it eventually would...

Could we then say that we were taking it as a matter of faith that science would eventually discover everything?

<wry, WFB smile>

</Firing Line> ;)
13 Feb 2005, 04:21 AM
Lucifer

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

BLAH BLAH LOL BLAH

I can help you.
13 Feb 2005, 04:23 AM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

If we were to say that science has not discovered everything but that it may do so...and that we supposed that it eventually would...

Could we then say that we were taking it as a matter of faith that science would eventually discover everything?

<wry, WFB smile>

</Firing Line> ;)

There is nothing says that science has to or is even capable of discovering everything, and even if we came to a point where we thought we knew everything it'd only be a matter of time before a new theory came and replaced some old one and showed how completely off we were on theories X, Y, and Z.

The point is that science is ever changing because it can admit (albiet sometimes only after great pains) that it is wrong. Religion will not and cannot by its very nature do that.

I don't have faith in science, but I do trust it.
13 Feb 2005, 04:23 AM
The_Meach

Admin: why are these joke accts (Lucifer/JC) still around?
13 Feb 2005, 04:24 AM
sethsez

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

If we were to say that science has not discovered everything but that it may do so...and that we supposed that it eventually would...

Could we then say that we were taking it as a matter of faith that science would eventually discover everything?

<wry, WFB smile>

</Firing Line> ;)

You're assuming that we think science will eventually explain everything.

I believe that science can explain everything. Theoretically. But I don't think it ever will.

And "science" is not a singular concept like Christianity is, so comparing the two is rather pointless.
13 Feb 2005, 04:25 AM
The_Meach

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

I don't have faith in science, but I do trust it.

Do you trust it to (eventually, with forevertime) explain everything?
13 Feb 2005, 04:26 AM
Josh

Admin: why are these joke accts (The_Meach) still around?
13 Feb 2005, 04:27 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

No, but I did get sent to one of those Youth Fellowship seminars / sermons / concerts once. I tell ya, nothing cements either one's love or hatred for Christian music quite like one of those things.

I don't know what day it was, but apparently, recently, it got to be ok to write shitty music for god. Apparently he quit giving a shit about quality in the past 100 years.
13 Feb 2005, 04:27 AM
The_Meach

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethsez

You're assuming that we think science will eventually explain everything.

I believe that science can explain everything. Theoretically. But I don't think it ever will.

Then if science won't ever explain everything, could you find space for the unknowable to be...true/valid?
13 Feb 2005, 04:28 AM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

Do you trust it to (eventually, with forevertime) explain everything?

I trust that it can possibly formulate an explanation based on evidence and replicable results for everything that we as humans can perceive. Does that mean it would 'know everything'? Not necessarily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

I don't know what day it was, but apparently, recently, it got to be ok to write shitty music for god. Apparently he quit giving a shit about quality in the past 100 years.

I don't mean to sound like a vendictive atheist, but that shit was really hypnotic and the people there were getting into it in a scary way. Plus, I really hate soft synthesizer music.
13 Feb 2005, 04:31 AM
Lucifer

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

I don't know what day it was, but apparently, recently, it got to be ok to write shitty music for god. Apparently he quit giving a shit about quality in the past 100 years.

He's got the worst taste in music... big time lol.

In Hell we listen to Slayer and fuck dangerously young girls. EXCEPT FOR WHEN WE'RE FUCKING THEIR MOTHERS AND LISTENING TO SLAYER!
13 Feb 2005, 04:31 AM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer

In Hell we listen to Slayer and fuck dangerously young girls. EXCEPT FOR WHEN WE'RE FUCKING THEIR MOTHERS AND LISTENING TO SLAYER!

Sign me up, o' horned one. \m/
13 Feb 2005, 04:33 AM
sethsez

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

Then if science won't ever explain everything, could you find space for the unknowable to be...true/valid?

Depends on what you mean by unknowable.

I think everything can be quantified, in one way or another. However, that doesn't mean we're capable of understanding everything in any meaningful way.
13 Feb 2005, 04:33 AM
The_Meach

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

I trust that (science) can possibly formulate an explanation based on evidence and replicable results for everything that we as humans can perceive.

Even art?
13 Feb 2005, 04:35 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

I don't mean to sound like a vendictive atheist, but that shit was really hypnotic and the people there were getting into it in a scary way. Plus, I really hate soft synthesizer music.

well you can see talking dragons if you smoke enough pot and want to bad enough too.
13 Feb 2005, 04:35 AM
sethsez

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

Even art?

What about it? "Art" is not a question, so science can't exactly answer it.
13 Feb 2005, 04:35 AM
Josh

Edit: Fuck!
13 Feb 2005, 04:36 AM
The_Meach

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethsez

I think everything can be quantified, in one way or another. However, that doesn't mean we're capable of understanding everything in any meaningful way.

If humans can eventually quantify everything (thru the magic of the future's uber-science), but cannot understand it, could we say that there is a place in the world for things that do explain the otherwise un-understandable (unknowable)?
13 Feb 2005, 04:36 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethsez

Depends on what you mean by unknowable.

I think everything can be quantified, in one way or another. However, that doesn't mean we're capable of understanding everything in any meaningful way.

THE MEANING OF LIFE IS 42!!!!111!!!
13 Feb 2005, 04:37 AM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

well you can see talking dragons if you smoke enough pot and want to bad enough too.

Yeah, but they aren't really there though and if you believed they really were you'd be crazy, no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

If humans can eventually quantify everything (thru the magic of the future's uber-science), but cannot understand it, could we say that there is a place in the world for things that do explain the otherwise un-understandable (unknowable)?

You're assuming that science would come to a point where it would stop trying to expand or refine. Ideally, in an infinite universe, it would continue the process forever and never reach some kind of intellectual plateau.
13 Feb 2005, 04:40 AM
Jesus Christ

Worst thread ever. Thanks a lot guys.
13 Feb 2005, 04:41 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

Yeah, but they aren't really there though and if you believed they really were you'd be crazy, no?

I don't know. I have really weird freinds.
13 Feb 2005, 04:41 AM
sethsez

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

If humans can eventually quantify everything (thru the magic of the future's uber-science), but cannot understand it, could we say that there is a place in the world for things that do explain the otherwise un-understandable (unknowable)?

Hypothetical situations are meaningless because that's not what we're dealing with. I think that, given infinite time and infinite resources inside a completely static reality, we could quantify absolutely everything AND understand it all.

But that's not reality, so who cares?
13 Feb 2005, 04:42 AM
The_Meach

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

I trust that (science) can possibly formulate an explanation based on evidence and replicable results for everything that we as humans can perceive

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meach

Even art?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethsez

What about it? "Art" is not a question, so science can't exactly answer it.

Art is a fundamental aspect of modern human existence (at least since Lascaux). If science cannot quantify art as an series of 'hard facts/evidence' could we then doubt its (science's) ability to 'formulate an explaination...for everything that we as humans can perceive'?
13 Feb 2005, 04:43 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

Art is a fundamental aspect of modern human existence (at least since Lascaux). If science cannot quantify art as an series of 'hard facts/evidence' could we then doubt its (science's) ability to 'formulate an explaination...for everything that we as humans can perceive'?

art can be quantified as much as anything mental.
13 Feb 2005, 04:44 AM
sethsez

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

Art is a fundamental aspect of modern human existence (at least since Lascaux). If science cannot quantify art as an series of 'hard facts/evidence' could we then doubt its (science's) ability to 'formulate an explaination...for everything that we as humans can perceive'?

Yes, but what about art are you trying to ask?

I mean, science has plenty to say about trees, but if you ask a scientist "tree?" they'll have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
13 Feb 2005, 04:47 AM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

Art is a fundamental aspect of modern human existence (at least since Lascaux). If science cannot quantify art as an series of 'hard facts/evidence' could we then doubt its (science's) ability to 'formulate an explaination...for everything that we as humans can perceive'?

The social or 'soft sciences' don't have the luxury of empirical data, however they can through numerous studies providing replicable results establish acceptable thoeries. So, there may be a time when we understand the human capacity to create and enjoy art. It won't be something done in a lab, but rather after gathering lots of information and formulating the right hypothesis.
13 Feb 2005, 04:51 AM
The_Meach

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

You're assuming that science would come to a point where it would stop trying to expand or refine. Ideally, in an infinite universe, it would continue the process forever and never reach some kind of intellectual plateau.

No, I'm giving science every benefit of the doubt. Limitless time and an infinite universe (although, sci-fi problem here: if the universe is infinite and constantly expanding, we'd never get to catalog it all b/c we came along 3 billion years or so after it got started).

If science will never reach a plateau, could we assume it won't b/c there will *always* be something that needs explanation?

Anyways, I should probably get to bed (or another beer...we'll see).

I would like to make a final note. I am not taking sides on this issue (just playing devil's advocate to try and challenge you guys). Good times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

there may be a time when we understand the human capacity to create and enjoy art. It won't be something done in a lab, but rather after gathering lots of information and formulating the right hypothesis.

One thing that the scientific process absolutely mandates is that results are predictable.

Could a theory ever be devised that predicts (cliche alert!) the next Sistine Chapel or Chopin?
13 Feb 2005, 04:59 AM
Fe 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

Could a theory ever be devised that predicts (cliche alert!) the next Sistine Chapel or Chopin?

maybe, but people are the result of their lives, and their DNA. I don't know if we could still be considered human if you were to try to regestered and collect data on everyone, all the time.

We would probably have to evolve to do such a thing. At that point we may have no need for things like "sistine chapels" and "Chopins"
13 Feb 2005, 05:08 AM
AstroBlue

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostwolf ex

I would add that it might be more than just beyond our technology, but also our knowlege base,

Technology is a form of knowledge, that was my point, if God is an interventionist then the wake of his interventions will be theoretically detectable if they actually cause a "difference"; but just because they are detectable doesn't mean they will be limited to our knowledge and observation horizon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Meach

No, I'm giving science every benefit of the doubt. Limitless time and an infinite universe (although, sci-fi problem here: if the universe is infinite and constantly expanding, we'd never get to catalog it all b/c we came along 3 billion years or so after it got started).

Laplace's Demon is impossible because in order to know everything in the universe you would also have to know the contents of your own mind which contain a copy of the universe, and inside the copy of the universe in your mind is another copy of the universe in your mind's mind, etc .etc. Knowledge is at best is a limiting sum, you can never absolutely understand something you are a part of.

Ask Tracer, he's got the Heisenberg siggy.
13 Feb 2005, 05:09 AM
The_Meach

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Technology is a form of knowledge, that was my point, if God is an interventionist then the wake of his interventions will be theoretically detectable if they actually cause a "difference"; but just because they are detectable doesn't mean they will be limited to our knowledge and observation horizon.

Not necessarily (just playing devil's advocate here).

If God/deity were to intervene in such a way that we could not detect it (how could we know what things were supposed to look like? we don't know the future) we would never know.

Think of it like this. We're all familiar with the God-as-watchmaker analogy: God winds up the world and lets it go. If God/deity were to construct the watch in such a way that we could not know when God is messing with things (and seeing how we're not all-knowing this would be pretty easy to do - if there is a God), how could we ever know when God is (or is not) messing with things?
13 Feb 2005, 05:12 AM
AstroBlue

True, I guess if God is an interventionist he could always just fuck with our instruments and minds... the cheeky bastard.
13 Feb 2005, 05:13 AM
Fe 26

Oh God, the redheaded Prankster.
13 Feb 2005, 05:18 AM
The_Meach

Hey!
http://img216.exs.cx/img216/6290/picture019b0zo3bc.jpg
;)
13 Feb 2005, 05:19 AM
AstroBlue

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

Oh God, the redheaded Prankster.

Well he also buried all those dinosaurs and shit; made it look as if the world and universe are really old; and that everything evolved; HE PWNED US ALL HARDCORE, MAKE THE SHIT REDRAW :(
13 Feb 2005, 05:21 AM
Fe 26

God is all about some ownage. God doesn't need to poo, but we do. Owned again.
13 Feb 2005, 08:02 AM
Error

What makes you think he doesn't need to poo? I'd say he shits on us quite frequently if he really exists.
13 Feb 2005, 11:44 AM
Drewbacca

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronPlant

You ever wonder about the smells, you can't smell, the colors you can't see, and the notes you can't hear?

No, never, that's gay.
13 Feb 2005, 02:22 PM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

No, never, that's gay.

You've really gone downhill; not just as a poster, but as a person in general.
13 Feb 2005, 02:39 PM
Grey's Anatomy

I think you miss the pun.

Why is this nine pages?
It was five last night, this is too much.
13 Feb 2005, 03:03 PM
Rumpy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

No, never, that's gay.

Did you jump to a different server or just quit WoW all together?
13 Feb 2005, 03:33 PM
Calliander

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Would you like to know the benefits of being Agnostic?
* Sundays
* Sex before marriage without the hypocrisy
* Last-minute repentance

You know what's funny is that you just summed up life 100% in four lines.

EDIT: By the way, sue me for not seeing this one until now.

I also like the fact that we're discussing psychohistory here. Isaac Asimov would be proud.
13 Feb 2005, 05:22 PM
Blacklight85

So were you one of those people who thought the world was going to end at the stroke of midnight on December 31st 1999? My cousins are born again christians and they stocked up with tons of food and water and were planning on hiding in their basement when 2000 came because they thought the world was going to end. I preferred to party instead.
13 Feb 2005, 05:37 PM
Master

This thread sucks.
13 Feb 2005, 05:39 PM
Rumpy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight85

So were you one of those people who thought the world was going to end at the stroke of midnight on December 31st 1999? My cousins are born again christians and they stocked up with tons of food and water and were planning on hiding in their basement when 2000 came because they thought the world was going to end. I preferred to party instead.

I hope you did the right thing and laughed in their faces.
13 Feb 2005, 07:16 PM
Fe 26

I would like to comment that I hate the orginal message of this thread.

There is nothing worse than christians who treat being saved like a business deal.

"sign up for christ, and GET THIS NEW MOBEL PHONE!?!??>!!?! ZOMG @_@ "
13 Feb 2005, 07:23 PM
Diff-chan

You know what religion makes a lot of sense?

Judaism.

Im serious.
13 Feb 2005, 07:31 PM
Vasteel

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

You know what religion makes a lot of sense?

Judaism.

Im serious.

It does indeed.
13 Feb 2005, 11:50 PM
Drewbacca

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0zen

You've really gone downhill; not just as a poster, but as a person in general.

Yet I can still see the tops of everyones heads, so it's alright. Yeah, it was a low blow, but it's not a serious thread by any means so don't pull a muscle over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumpy

Did you jump to a different server or just quit WoW all together?

I was on today but I can't get into it anymore. I just find it monotonous and boring. I guess it's run its course with me, but to be fair to the game it's the only MMORPG i've payed past level 9.
14 Feb 2005, 01:09 AM
jonas

No proof = No God.
14 Feb 2005, 02:27 AM
James

Quote:

No proof = No God.

That's a weird thing to say. Do you put that kind of requirement on everything in your life, or just the religious bits?

Indifferent agnostic speaking here. Don't know, don't really care that much.

James
14 Feb 2005, 02:48 AM
Tracer

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelassassin

No proof = No God.

No Proof of no proof of god = god?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
14 Feb 2005, 02:59 AM
AstroBlue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Yet I can still see the tops of everyones heads, so it's alright.

Do you have a mirror on the end of a stick?
14 Feb 2005, 03:04 AM
Revoltor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight85

So were you one of those people who thought the world was going to end at the stroke of midnight on December 31st 1999? My cousins are born again christians and they stocked up with tons of food and water and were planning on hiding in their basement when 2000 came because they thought the world was going to end. I preferred to party instead.

After 9/11 we kind of have been going through the "end of the world"

(Millennium technically began in 2001)
14 Feb 2005, 08:41 PM
Drewbacca

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Do you have a mirror on the end of a stick?

Yes, and also stilts.
14 Feb 2005, 08:44 PM
Master

The benefits of not being a Christian:

Sleeping in on Sunday.
14 Feb 2005, 08:49 PM
Drewbacca

It's already been said, get with it.
14 Feb 2005, 08:56 PM
Master

This thread is way too long.

In my own honor:
http://ebounding.host.sk/collage/lastweek2_small.jpg
14 Feb 2005, 09:05 PM
Joust Williams

wow

red x is woo woo
16 Feb 2005, 09:37 PM
Blacklight85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumpy

I hope you did the right thing and laughed in their faces.

I did, for a long time. Idiots probably still havent used up all the canned food and bottled water they bought for the end of the world. :rolleyes:
17 Feb 2005, 05:11 PM
Calliander

What's everyone's opinion on this site? It purports to explain how evolution is false.
17 Feb 2005, 10:03 PM
g0zen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

What's everyone's opinion on this site? It purports to explain how evolution is false.

It's got some kickass newspeak terms in it, like antiscience.
18 Feb 2005, 12:09 AM
Diff-chan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

What's everyone's opinion on this site? It purports to explain how evolution is false.

It uses the same bullshit analogies and half-witted arguments to appeal to our baser logics. National Geographic had a really good issue devoted to evolution a few weeks back. In it, they provide things that dont exist in any anti-evolution article: namely, evidence and proof.
18 Feb 2005, 12:30 AM
Master of 7s

WTF?

Why is this thread still here?
18 Feb 2005, 01:05 AM
sethsez

Quote:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

It uses the same bullshit analogies and half-witted arguments to appeal to our baser logics. National Geographic had a really good issue devoted to evolution a few weeks back. In it, they provide things that dont exist in any anti-evolution article: namely, evidence and proof.

BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MEN CAME FROM SEAWEED SO IT MUST BE TRUE
18 Feb 2005, 04:29 PM
StriderKyo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

Fear not, O ye of little faith. There is a Greater Power looking out for you. Namely, me. The worst that'll happen is you'll get mocked or totally ignored.

I don't see how the use of "Christian" then is different from today's usage. In fact, since there are no tongues of flame and no temple veils being rent asunder nowadays, it's actually more "admirable" to believe in Christ today, when He's not so in-your-face. If you believe in a just, loving, and merciful God in the face of all that's gone on, you must have strong faith indeed.

The only real reason to be a Christian, but not a Scriptural one. God only wants you if you love Him. He doesn't care if you're scared of death or not. But it's interesting how the Heaven angle is played more nowadays and the "God commendeth His love toward us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" angle takes a secondary role. But love is the whole Gospel and Calvary, not Heaven, is God's greatest act.

Sorry, no matter how scared you are of hellfire, if you become a Christian for that reason, God ain't having none of you.

It's not only the rich and successful that feel empty. And I don't see too many evangelists, percentage-wise in that category. That's why so many convicts and people of humble means and education find God. No matter how low you are, you can take comfort in the fact that Christ will humble the exalted and exalt the humble. What greater escapist fantasy is there than, "God loves me so much that He is preparing a mansion for me"? What bigger ego trip is there than, "God loves me so much He wants me to live at His side forever"?

Guess what? My joy is more complete than yours. I'm telling you, I'm at least twice as happy as you are.

Don't believe me? Won't take my word for it? Well, then why should I automatically believe you if you tell me the happiness in Christ surpasses the happiness I find in my own individuality, my own accomplishments, and the positive impact that I've had on people's lives?

And let me ask you how happy you will be on that last day of judgement as you watch the vast majority of people - good and bad, those who lived on earth twenty years and those that lived 120 - cast into eternal suffering. Will your joy truly be complete, will the praise on your lips be totally free of irony, as you watch people that you knew in life thrown into torment?

The good man who helped others yet never found Christ - the Bible says his righteousness is as dirty rags and his works mean nothing. He will find at the end of his long, peace-loving, humble journey of service the same exact reward waiting for the most rotten, remorseless murderer and the most blasphemous corrupter of the young.

For one half-century of ignorance, you condone eternal punishment? Not only do you condone it, but you'll raise your voice in song to the cold-hearted Murderer of souls that throws His creations into Hell? Will the hymns of the holy be loud enough to drown out the wails of the damned? And if they are, will they be loud enough to drown out your conscience as you remember those you loved on earth and think upon their suffering in Hell?

It's a good thing it's all a fairy tale, or we'd have to rise up and destroy God before He destroys us. I will not sell out billions of souls just so I can live with some Ghost, Holy or not.

The Atheist View: I have a finite number of years to find happiness and bring it to others. I must study to find the best way to live. I must value life because it is so fragile.

The Christian View: My morality is tied up in a Book. If I stop believing in the Book, I have no morality of my own to fall back on. I have not thought anything through, since I am a creature of faith, so if my faith wavers, my entire ethical and philosophical structure can collapse like a house of cards. Oh, and if a child dies, it's perfectly acceptable to torture its soul for eternity. Because my ghostly Father told me it is.

Again, you can't get into Heaven that way. God said, "As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name," and "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." This is not like picking a horse or playing roulette, buddy.

Anybody who would use "The Great Gamble" to win souls is either being misleading or knows very little about the Gospel he claims gives him so much perfect peace.

No joy? You're the one who has to go around warning everyone:

"When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand."

That's a heavy burden to bear. And those you can't convince, you'll watch burn? Well, maybe the mansions in Heaven don't have windows. Wouldn't want to ruin your eternity with the sound of your mother crying for mercy or the little kid you used to babysit screaming in terror at the hands of your merciful Almighty.

Let me ask you a question. Have you read the Bible? Christ's sacrifice did away with the old salvation plan.

"For grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

God good? Not at punishment. Even the worst judicial system should differentiate between types of crimes and take into account the severity of a crime. You don't behead your child because he talks back to you, much less burn a good man with everlasting fire because he believed in the wrong holy book. God is not out for rapists and murderers, He is out for unbelievers - which make up, what, ninety-nine percent of the people that ever lived?

Then, God is a sadistic Maniac.

Don't forget to leave your love, compassion, and sense of fair play at the door. God has His own version of each, and it's nothing like yours.

Unless, of course, the Bible is metaphor and allegory which simple minded literalists try to wedge their minds into for the sake of having a cosmic security blanket. I know Martin Luther meant well, but I can't help but feel he has a great deal to answer for.

I'm saving that post, btw. Good stuff.

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