NEW PayPal Fraud - I freaking HATE PayPal...

Just wanted to drop this tidbit off on anyone who sells on ebay and sends internationally.

DON'T SEND VIA AIRMAL!!! I cannot stress this enough. Most people on the forums will realize if they want tracking and insurance they will need to pay up for EMS. However, no one uses EMS due to the high expense, Airmail is typically 2/3 or 3/4 cheaper.

The fraud is right there in PayPal. They require you to supply a tracking number in case of a Buyer Complaint. So what happens? Buyer pays for auction via PayPal, wants Airmail, then claims to PayPal that they never recieved the item.

It doesn't matter how much proof you fax or scan for them, they require a tracking number. I'm out close to $300 because this has happened 4 times in the past month.

Don't let this happen to you! Just wanted to warn the community!

Thanks,
Andy

PS: for anyone who actually wants free games, there you go. I'm not going to do it, but maybe if no one sells internationally anymore Ebay will shut the Buyer Protection down...

I sell internationally and just sent an item via Air Letter Post. Even tho there is no tracking, there is customs number. But I dont think that does any good. I'll have to watch out now. I sent a bluetooth wireless headset that I sold for my cousin, AshnVictor, over a month ago, and the person said he hasnt received it. Never had I have a package take so long. If he received it and is lying to me, he cant do anything anymore as the 30 day policy has passed.

I will keep an eye-out tho. THanks.

Man, that is some sucky shit

Well this sucks, and right when I was about to get into the whole eCommerce thing.

Eh, International orders are the rare cases for me, and I've never had a problem before... I've been using Paypal for a long time and I've yet to have a single problem.

(By the way, shmup-o, do you still want those games from me? And do you even read PMs?)

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Originally Posted by Nomi

(By the way, shmup-o, do you still want those games from me?)

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he'll probably want it sent by airmail.

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Originally Posted by Nomi

Eh, International orders are the rare cases for me, and I've never had a problem before... I've been using Paypal for a long time and I've yet to have a single problem.

(By the way, shmup-o, do you still want those games from me?)

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I've never had a problem with international PayPal/Ebay transactions until this last batch of stuff. Hell, I've never had problems in general with PayPal until now. The nice part is, I'll be on the phone with Cust Service:

Me "Yeah, I have the reciept and a copy of the customs form when I sent the item"
PP "Do you have a tracking number?"
Me "No. But I have proof I mailed it."
PP "But do you have a tracking number?"
Me "No, they didn't want to pay for EMS. They chose to risk it. I didn't force them to get Airmail, they chose Airmail over EMS."
PP "I'm sorry sir, but it's the seller's responsibility to send with a tracking number."
Me "Wait. So you're saying that they didn't want to pay for tracking and it's MY responsibility to give them a tracking number a week later?"
PP "Yes."
Me "Why are you even involved with this? They paid me for the item and Airmail, I took said item and mailed it via Airmail, and the Post Office screwed up. Now it's MY responsibility?"
PP "That's what the PayPal terms and conditions state"
Me "So you're telling me I can go buy anything I want off of Ebay, get Airmail for shipping, recieve the item, then tell you guys that I never got it, and get my money back?"
PP "If you want to be one of THOSE people sir..."

And then I lost it on them right there. Same conversation, 3 different phone operators. God I hate PayPal.

And yes Nomi, I still want the games. I'll get you the money somehow. Probably PayPal :bang:

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Originally Posted by shmup-o

PP "If you want to be one of THOSE people sir..."

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Wait... they're cool with this?

*runs to ebay*

Doesn't the tracking number provide the proof that the package arrived? That's what it does, I thought.. like you type in the tracking number and it says:

- Item left bay at 12:00am
- Item on freeway 1:00pm
- Item Arrived at house 2:30pm
- Signed by 'Name'

Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by jonas

Am I missing something?

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Apparently.

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Originally Posted by bandit

Even tho there is no tracking

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Damn I sold Metal Slug 3 to a dude in the UK via AirMail. Im glad he didnt rip me off like that.

So Airmail's tracking numbers actually don't work?

I'm still confused. Why do you get tracking numbers or give tracking numbers that aren't working or that track nothing.

Can someone explain this a bit more? (The tracking number thing)

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Originally Posted by jonas

So Airmail's tracking numbers actually don't work?

I'm still confused. Why do you get tracking numbers or give tracking numbers that aren't working or that track nothing.

Can someone explain this a bit more? (The tracking number thing)

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There is no tracking for Airmail. Airmail/Letter Post is the International shipping of First Class for the US. It takes longer. EMS is like Express Mail that does have tracking but costs alot more.

Tracking numbers give you the location of where the item is and if it was delivered to the person. In shmup-o's case, he sent via airmail which has no tracking number. He wanted to use the customs form as proof of shipment, but that doesnt do much justice as all it does is declare the value of what is in the package.

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Originally Posted by jonas

So Airmail's tracking numbers actually don't work?

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Quote:

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So you're saying that they didn't want to pay for tracking

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One would require a tracking number in order for it to be valid.

I wish I knew this before. I had heard weird scams on paypal but this takes the cake I'm so fucking mad right now.

So I auctioned this off to this moron.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESO%3AIT&rd=1

And on a auction that ended today I get paid, I go to check my paypal thinking I'm $26.00 richer but no! I am negative $147.39!

I get in touch with paypal to see what the hell this is about. They tell me that they had a case and investigated that person that bought the PS2 used a stolen credit card. Paypal withdrew the funds. Now this fuckers has my PS2 and accessories and according to the paypal rep I have to payback the $180.00 back to the credit card company.

I have the emails (several & reciepts) and paypal told me too bad you need to have signiture comfimation or have positive feedback by the buyer saying that he recieved the item or have a verified address for them to be able to do anything for me. :wtf:

I have all the evidence in the world but shipped it Air Mail to Quebec and now I'm assed out per paypal. Now I need to figuire what the fuck to do cuz I'm loosing money on todays auctions. And I'm broke I started a new job and don't get paid for 2 weeks.

I highly doubt I'll ever use paypal again in my lifetime. One scam is all it takes. From now on I'm strictly domestic and money orders. :yuck: Disgustya!


http://img135.echo.cx/img135/7713/moron6it.jpg

Damn, that sucks! That is why I don't ship international. Well, I ship to Canada but I have never had a problem with Canadian people, they are always super nice.

The only way to go.

http://www.suityourself.org/USPOMOTxt.jpg



Fuck PayPal.

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Originally Posted by Melf

The only way to go.

http://www.suityourself.org/USPOMOTxt.jpg



Fuck PayPal.

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Lesson learned never will I use paypal again.

Ever thought of taking paypal itself to court for assisting in fraud?

(Postal Money orders) Not if you don't have a freaking state ID it isn't. I couldn't cash those MO's you sent me from 6 months ago until recently, with my temp license.

That, and it requires going to the post office. That alone makes me disgusted with that. I will continue to use Paypal and not worry about silly Canadians. I don't accept the credit card payments, anyway. Debit or nill.

(Whatever happened to concealed cash, anyway? I've never had a problem with it).

The thing with postal money orders is that you can cash them right when you ship the package, saving a trip to the bank. They're also trackable and cheap. Not all states require an ID to cash them, either.

Concealed cash is great until it gets lost/stolen, or the seller decides to say he "never got it." What proof do you have that you paid?

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Originally Posted by x2y

I wish I knew this before. I had heard weird scams on paypal but this takes the cake I'm so fucking mad right now.

So I auctioned this off to this moron.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESO%3AIT&rd=1

And on a auction that ended today I get paid, I go to check my paypal thinking I'm $26.00 richer but no! I am negative $147.39!

I get in touch with paypal to see what the hell this is about. They tell me that they had a case and investigated that person that bought the PS2 used a stolen credit card. Paypal withdrew the funds. Now this fuckers has my PS2 and accessories and according to the paypal rep I have to payback the $180.00 back to the credit card company.

I have the emails (several & reciepts) and paypal told me too bad you need to have signiture comfimation or have positive feedback by the buyer saying that he recieved the item or have a verified address for them to be able to do anything for me. :wtf:

I have all the evidence in the world but shipped it Air Mail to Quebec and now I'm assed out per paypal. Now I need to figuire what the fuck to do cuz I'm loosing money on todays auctions. And I'm broke I started a new job and don't get paid for 2 weeks.

I highly doubt I'll ever use paypal again in my lifetime. One scam is all it takes. From now on I'm strictly domestic and money orders. :yuck: Disgustya!

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http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/s...ad.php?t=27608

Take a look at the International section. Try filling out mail fraud.

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Originally Posted by Melf

The thing with postal money orders is that you can cash them right when you ship the package, saving a trip to the bank. They're also trackable and cheap. Not all states require an ID to cash them, either.

Concealed cash is great until it gets lost/stolen, or the seller decides to say he "never got it." What proof do you have that you paid?

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Concealed cash is great when it's for silly things like a 3 dollar Genny cart or 10 dollar dvd. I'll send up to 30 dollars in concealed cash. After that though, it's postal money orders.

I've never used paypal and probably never will.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by x2y

I wish I knew this before. I had heard weird scams on paypal but this takes the cake I'm so fucking mad right now.

So I auctioned this off to this moron.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESO%3AIT&rd=1

]

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Shit, that guy would've gotten a really good deal. Sorry to hear it.

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Originally Posted by bandit

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/s...ad.php?t=27608

Take a look at the International section. Try filling out mail fraud.

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Thanks I'll read that now.

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Originally Posted by Revoltor

Concealed cash is great when it's for silly things like a 3 dollar Genny cart or 10 dollar dvd. I'll send up to 30 dollars in concealed cash. After that though, it's postal money orders.

I've never used paypal and probably never will.


Shit, that guy would've gotten a really good deal. Sorry to hear it.

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He got a superb deal cuz I got to paypack that money while he still has the PS2. He = :link: me =
:wtf:

You shouldn't pay him back, the fault was on his behalf let him deal with it.

you guys are retards, seriously.

to let yourselves even get caught in this bullshit is ridiculous. I mean, i see you guys got fucked...but cmon man; this shit should be default knowledge if you even read their god damn policies.

by default i never ship international WITHOUT a tracking number(even when dealing locally i get tracking numbers for everything). if they dont want to pony up via EMS, then the item goes back up to be auctioned off again. period.

you have to remember that this is a buisness and YOU need to cover YOUR own ass 100% because people like are always waiting for someone to be their newest marks(read: you guys).

"OMG I DUN PAY TENTION TO DA RULZ AND TREATED EBAY LIK A SWAP MEET N I GOT SCREWED CUZ IM STOOPID BUT FUK PAYPAL THEYR SCAMMERS I'LL NEVUR USE DEM AGIN AN U SHULDNT EITHER DEY SUXROZ"

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Originally Posted by voltz

You shouldn't pay him back, the fault was on his behalf let him deal with it.

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The money was transferred by Paypal automatically, none of this had anything to do with him transferring money himself. A guy put money into his account from a false credit card, and then Paypal found out it was a fake so they (not x2y) took the money back out of his account so x2y now has to pay Paypal.

Technically that guy never paid anything, he got a PS2 for free and x2y lost those items and the cost for them. It's shitty as hell but there's not much you can do. MWF is kinda harsh but he's right, people are assholes and are always trying to get shit for free no matter who it hurts so you have to treat them like that. Tracking numbers and signatures are required these days for auctions, eBay is a hunting ground for people trying to screw others over.

If you're shipping overseas, I suggest USPS Global Priority. The stupid post office employee fucked me over but stupid me still went ahead. I shipped a sealed 40GB iPod Photo to Spain. Sold the item for $370 ($405 including shipping). I wanted to ship Global Priority and the fat greasy bastard at the PO wouldnt let me and said documents only or only if it fits in those paper envelopes (like Priority Mail flat rate). I ended up shipping via Air Mail with no insurance or tracking (not offered for Air Mail). This was a month ago. Buyer still hasnt received the item. Now I have to file a loss package claim and see what happens. I dont know if the seller is telling the truth or he could be lying since there is no way I know he got it or not. eBay cant and wont do anything. As for PayPal, I dont know. Buyer is unverified and unconfirmed. Its been a month. He has 3 feedbacks on eBay so he seems legit..I hope.

Not to mention, another buyer that bought a bluetooth headset emails me a couple two days ago and tells me the headset doesnt work anymore. This was also a month ago. A month and now he tells me? His excuse was that he wasnt sure if it was his phone and was waiting for another phone to test it on. I told him all sales are final and stated in my auction. I was nice enough to offer $5 refund for the inconvience even tho item worked when shipped and was tested. Now I think he wants to complain to eBay and Paypal. O and no tracking or insurance on package either. Sent out the same time as the iPod. But he left me positive feedback.

Fuck sending internationally. It's enough of a pain in the ass dealing with idiots in the US.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voltz

You shouldn't pay him back, the fault was on his behalf let him deal with it.

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I don't plan to. But in the end I owe paypal or his credit card (whoever it is) according to the Paypal phone rep.

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Originally Posted by MrWhitefolks

you guys are retards, seriously.

to let yourselves even get caught in this bullshit is ridiculous. I mean, i see you guys got fucked...but cmon man; this shit should be default knowledge if you even read their god damn policies.

by default i never ship international WITHOUT a tracking number(even when dealing locally i get tracking numbers for everything). if they dont want to pony up via EMS, then the item goes back up to be auctioned off again. period.

you have to remember that this is a buisness and YOU need to cover YOUR own ass 100% because people like are always waiting for someone to be their newest marks(read: you guys).

"OMG I DUN PAY TENTION TO DA RULZ AND TREATED EBAY LIK A SWAP MEET N I GOT SCREWED CUZ IM STOOPID BUT FUK PAYPAL THEYR SCAMMERS I'LL NEVUR USE DEM AGIN AN U SHULDNT EITHER DEY SUXROZ"

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Lol you come of angrier than I was at that moment. If it my fualt for not reading that policy again.

I've been with Paypal since 2001 I read it back then and when ebay first took over it. Plenty of people get taken on Paypal and ebay. I just thought it woudn't happen to me (hehe). This is the first problem I ever ran into since being on ebay nearly 5 years. What upset me most was that the auctions I had later on were effected by the bullshit. This went down the same day they paid for their items so their payments ended up being owned by Paypal. I still honored that and shipped them. You might say I know better now.

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Originally Posted by MechDeus

The money was transferred by Paypal automatically, none of this had anything to do with him transferring money himself. A guy put money into his account from a false credit card, and then Paypal found out it was a fake so they (not x2y) took the money back out of his account so x2y now has to pay Paypal.

Technically that guy never paid anything, he got a PS2 for free and x2y lost those items and the cost for them. It's shitty as hell but there's not much you can do. MWF is kinda harsh but he's right, people are assholes and are always trying to get shit for free no matter who it hurts so you have to treat them like that. Tracking numbers and signatures are required these days for auctions, eBay is a hunting ground for people trying to screw others over.

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That's exactly it.

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Originally Posted by bandit

If you're shipping overseas, I suggest USPS Global Priority. The stupid post office employee fucked me over but stupid me still went ahead. I shipped a sealed 40GB iPod Photo to Spain. Sold the item for $370 ($405 including shipping). I wanted to ship Global Priority and the fat greasy bastard at the PO wouldnt let me and said documents only or only if it fits in those paper envelopes (like Priority Mail flat rate). I ended up shipping via Air Mail with no insurance or tracking (not offered for Air Mail). This was a month ago. Buyer still hasnt received the item. Now I have to file a loss package claim and see what happens. I dont know if the seller is telling the truth or he could be lying since there is no way I know he got it or not. eBay cant and wont do anything. As for PayPal, I dont know. Buyer is unverified and unconfirmed. Its been a month. He has 3 feedbacks on eBay so he seems legit..I hope.

Not to mention, another buyer that bought a bluetooth headset emails me a couple two days ago and tells me the headset doesnt work anymore. This was also a month ago. A month and now he tells me? His excuse was that he wasnt sure if it was his phone and was waiting for another phone to test it on. I told him all sales are final and stated in my auction. I was nice enough to offer $5 refund for the inconvience even tho item worked when shipped and was tested. Now I think he wants to complain to eBay and Paypal. O and no tracking or insurance on package either. Sent out the same time as the iPod. But he left me positive feedback.

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Good luck with that.

A quick update sort of anyway. I followed some of the stuff on Bandits thread and have notified ebay. But nothing has happened yet. Also check this out.

SMH:
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.js...=1116117479016

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I sold this [B](item #8187278362)to liyifan_feng.

The reversal thing happenned like 2 weeks later.

As I was looking and notifying other people he has dealt with recently it turns he is a scammer with others as as well (well only 2 people) and only really sells to himself under the name fengfenglee. (I should of cought on then :\) So yea he is one in the same.

He is now selling the PS2 he bought from me (assuming both are 50001 units) under that name. How do I know because he emailed me from that email listed in this auction (item # 5387567594) multiple times asking when I shipped the item.

The has two ebay accounts selling to him self for feedback and ripping others off. I contacted both names both are ignoring my emails.

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