Some "final" Xbox2/Xenon specs

GameSpy reveals details on the next Xbox console.

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Recently, some of GameSpy's friends in the development community shared a ton of details on Microsoft's next console system. Keep in mind that all of this information is based off of alpha development kits and current projections for the final hardware. Everything is subject to change. In the first part of our Xbox expose, I'll cover the console's hardware components and software goals. Since the final name of the next Xbox hasn't been revealed yet, I'll refer to the system by its codename, Xenon.

* CPU - Xenon's CPU has three 3.0 GHz PowerPC cores. Each core is capable of two instructions per cycle and has an L1 cache with 32 KB for data and 32 KB for instructions. The three cores share 1 MB of L2 cache. Alpha 2 developer kits currently have two cores instead of three.
* GPU - Xenon's GPU is a generation beyond the ATI X800. Its clock speed is 500 MHz and it supports Shader 3.0. Developers are currently working with an alpha 2 GPU. Beta GPU units are expected by May and the final GPU is slated for a summer release. The final GPU will be more powerful than anything on the market today; in game terms, it would handle a game like Half-Life 2 with ease.
* System Memory - Xenon will have 256 MB of system RAM. Keep in mind that this number should not be equated to typical PC RAM. The Xbox has 64 MB of system RAM and is a very capable machine.
* Optical Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon will not use Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Games will come on dual-layer DVD-9 discs. While the media is the same as that of the current Xbox, the usable space on each disc is up to 7 GB. The drive is slated to run at 12X.
* Memory Units - Xenon will use 64 MB to 1,024 MB memory cards. 8 MB is reserved for system use, leaving a 56 MB to 1,016 MB for user data.
* Hard Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon's hard drive is optional. 2 GB of the drive will be used as game cache. The final drive size is still being determined.
* Camera - Xenon will have a USB 2.0 camera. It's capable of 1.2 megapixel still shots and VGA video. Photos can be used in-game and for gamer profiles. The camera can also be used for video chat. It's unknown if the Xenon camera will allow for EyeToy-like gameplay. Developers are currently using a simulated camera driver.
* Sound Chip - Xenon does not have an audio chip in the traditional sense. Decompression is handled by hardware, while the rest of the chores are handled by software. DirectSound3D has been dropped in favor of X3DAudio. The former was deemed too inflexible.

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i wonder the most about the camera. if it comes standard thats pretty cool.

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Originally Posted by Dragonmaster Dyne

i wonder the most about the camera. if it comes standard thats pretty cool.

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I'd drop the camera in a second for a standard harddrive.

oh no doubt. i really hope they dont start developing without the hdd in mind (meanign the devs). they could do good stuff with a 2 gig cache.

As I said in a previous thread, I can see them pulling a PSP Value Pack-like stunt, and only offer the HD unit at launch, so they can build a sizeable base of HD units, then offer the HD-less unit for cheaper when the PS3 launches. I'm hoping the price difference of the HD unit is negligible enough (no more than $50 greater than the HD-less unit), so that most people will buy the HD unit so it's used. Next question would be: can you add a hard drive to the HD-less unit if you want?

I'm actually happy about the system using a regular DVD drive. Keeps the system cost down. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD won't be in widespread use for another 4 years anyway, unless the studios stop making regular DVDs in the near future. It'll be interesting to see how true these specs are.

Lucy...

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Originally Posted by Wolffen

Next question would be: can you add a hard drive to the HD-less unit if you want?

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yes. i put the info in the other xbox thread but theyre making the hdd a media player type of thing. itll be stand alone and can be bought and used with the hdd-less system.

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Originally Posted by Wolffen

I'm actually happy about the system using a regular DVD drive. Keeps the system cost down. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD won't be in widespread use for another 4 years anyway, unless the studios stop making regular DVDs in the near future. It'll be interesting to see how true these specs are.

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Even if they do, which I dont think they will, the fact is that the infrastructure for DVD is set up already and in full force.

But will 9 gigs be enough for tomorrows games? When PC games are already pushing 5-10 gigs without batting an eye?

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Even if they do, which I dont think they will, the fact is that the infrastructure for DVD is set up already and in full force.

But will 9 gigs be enough for tomorrows games? When PC games are already pushing 5-10 gigs without batting an eye?

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just make it two discs. the ONLY reason SONY is using the other format is so they can try to get it in homes and make it the mainstream.

Yea but will that work with a game like World of Warcraft? I assume theres gonna be some MMOs this time around.

edit: Im just speculating, Microsoft and Sony have to deal with tough quesitons like this every day they design their system, I dont really want that job (unless its high paying).

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Yea but will that work with a game like World of Warcraft? I assume theres gonna be some MMOs this time around.

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why wouldnt it? everquest and every other mmorpg have multiple discs for all the expansions. you install the game from the discs and play. so im sure theyd make the hdd mandatory for a game in that situation. other than that, any normal game you do like GC games. get to a certain part and swap discs.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Even if they do, which I dont think they will, the fact is that the infrastructure for DVD is set up already and in full force.

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Well, the PS2 and Xbox are part of the reason DVDs are as ubiquitous as they are, so it's possible PS3 might push Blu-Ray the same way. But yeah, it will take some time for the new standards to reach a wide enough audience to make a difference.

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But will 9 gigs be enough for tomorrows games? When PC games are already pushing 5-10 gigs without batting an eye?

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I think some of today's PC games are being inefficient with the compression and code. Plus most developers are designing their games to look their best on 1024X768 monitors, not 640X400 TVs. Granted, HD-TV will push developers to create games for those higher resolutions...I guess we'll see. Maybe MS has come up with a kick ass compression scheme.

i forgot to add the other day at the GDC that MS has plans to open a dedicated XNA office. which im sure theyre still going to use to cross title pc and xbox 2 games.

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Originally Posted by Wolffen

Well, the PS2 and Xbox are part of the reason DVDs are as ubiquitous as they are, so it's possible PS3 might push Blu-Ray the same way. But yeah, it will take some time for the new standards to reach a wide enough audience to make a difference.


I think some of today's PC games are being inefficient with the compression and code. Plus most developers are designing their games to look their best on 1024X768 monitors, not 640X400 TVs. Granted, HD-TV will push developers to create games for those higher resolutions...I guess we'll see. Maybe MS has come up with a kick ass compression scheme.

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Sony and Microsoft would both be insane not to push HDTV tech in their games and consoles. Theres such a huge difference and youre not getting the whole story with regular TV.

The sad thing is theyre probably gonna sell RF adapters for the new consoles (S-Video should be the minimum).

yeah my buddy had an svideo ready set (probably 6 years ago when they started coming out real big) and he never used it. i said "your games would look so much better". he never used it because he didnt want to buy the cable. yet went out and bought shit games like Spawn.

I have a 20" Mitsubishi TV I got for my birthday in 1994, composite only, and Ive pretty much used that to play every game since. But I know its time is up, and has been up for 5 years or so. But Ive been wasting away in college. Im gonna upgrade soon. And I would understand if Microsoft and Sony lock out TVs like that, because they make pretty games look like ass.

yeah i unfortunately used composite until about 2 years ago when i finally had money to get a 29" flat screen component set. i cant stand looking at normal sets anymore and cringe when i go to friends houses. i cant imagine how good hi defs look. been meaning to get a vdigi adapter to find out.

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Originally Posted by Dragonmaster Dyne

why wouldnt it? everquest and every other mmorpg have multiple discs for all the expansions. you install the game from the discs and play. so im sure theyd make the hdd mandatory for a game in that situation. other than that, any normal game you do like GC games. get to a certain part and swap discs.

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PLEASE INSERT DISC 2 TO PLAY AS NFC TEAM

More like, PLEASE PAY ANOTHER $50 TO PLAY AS NFC TEAM BECAUSE YOU CAN ONLY BUY NFL FOOTBALL GAMES FROM ONE COMPANY NOW HAHAHAHAAHAHAH..;.

*cough* er, sorry. I'm hoping that MS won't castrate the Xenon by taking away VGA capability.

WTF... a camera? I don't want to be seeing your ugly mugs when I'm playing online.

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Originally Posted by Wolffen

Plus most developers are designing their games to look their best on 1024X768 monitors, not 640X400 TVs.

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Any developer designing games for 640x480 has zero shot at getting my money during the next generation of consoles.

I don't understand.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I don't understand.

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IBTN

I'll say it again - I will be surprised and impressed if this thing has a multi-core 3.0GHz PowerPC chip in it. IBM, last I knew, still hasn't gotten single-core PPC chips of that speed produced in any sort of quantity.

If it happens, though, then great, because that will mean faster, multi-core Macs in the near future.

LOL

Gamespy's "Got Next"

http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/microso.../594331p1.html

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

IBTN

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They see and understand:

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Recently, some of GameSpy's friends in the development community shared a ton of details on Microsoft's next console system. Keep in mind that all of this information is based off of alpha development kits and current projections for the final hardware. Everything is subject to change. In the first part of our Xbox expose, I'll cover the console's hardware components and software goals. Since the final name of the next Xbox hasn't been revealed yet, I'll refer to the system by its codename, Xenon.

* CPU - Xenon's CPU has three 3.0 GHz PowerPC cores. Each core is capable of two instructions per cycle and has an L1 cache with 32 KB for data and 32 KB for instructions. The three cores share 1 MB of L2 cache. Alpha 2 developer kits currently have two cores instead of three.
* GPU - Xenon's GPU is a generation beyond the ATI X800. Its clock speed is 500 MHz and it supports Shader 3.0. Developers are currently working with an alpha 2 GPU. Beta GPU units are expected by May and the final GPU is slated for a summer release. The final GPU will be more powerful than anything on the market today; in game terms, it would handle a game like Half-Life 2 with ease.
* System Memory - Xenon will have 256 MB of system RAM. Keep in mind that this number should not be equated to typical PC RAM. The Xbox has 64 MB of system RAM and is a very capable machine.
* Optical Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon will not use Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Games will come on dual-layer DVD-9 discs. While the media is the same as that of the current Xbox, the usable space on each disc is up to 7 GB. The drive is slated to run at 12X.
* Memory Units - Xenon will use 64 MB to 1,024 MB memory cards. 8 MB is reserved for system use, leaving a 56 MB to 1,016 MB for user data.
* Hard Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon's hard drive is optional. 2 GB of the drive will be used as game cache. The final drive size is still being determined.
* Camera - Xenon will have a USB 2.0 camera. It's capable of 1.2 megapixel still shots and VGA video. Photos can be used in-game and for gamer profiles. The camera can also be used for video chat. It's unknown if the Xenon camera will allow for EyeToy-like gameplay. Developers are currently using a simulated camera driver.
* Sound Chip - Xenon does not have an audio chip in the traditional sense. Decompression is handled by hardware, while the rest of the chores are handled by software. DirectSound3D has been dropped in favor of X3DAudio. The former was deemed too inflexible.

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I see and don't understand:

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Dogs eat muffins

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A camera? Sweet!! There will be a penis in every game I play :)

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Any developer designing games for 640x480 has zero shot at getting my money during the next generation of consoles.

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Reading the article bbobb posted the link to, I found this:

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Developers are being instructed to plan their games for high-definition. The baseline is 720p at 1280x720 for gameplay and video clips, 16:9 aspect ratio, 5.1 Surround Sound, and anti-aliasing. These features are the current minimum requirement.

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So hopefully you'll be happy. :)

edit: Oh, and part two of the Gamespy feature bbobb linked to is up:
http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/microso.../594355p1.html

edit zwei: The second of their feature is talking about upgrades to Xbox Live and "Game Profiles." One of the things mentioned is "Gamer Cred":

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The profile also records achievements and something dubbed "Gamer Cred." Achievements are game-specific tasks, such as beating a certain boss or completing a level in a certain amount of time. Achievements can be awarded online and offline; the baseline is for every game to award at least five achievements. Gamer Cred is how much you're awarded for each achievement. The more games you play and the better you do, the more Gamer Cred you'll earn. Microsoft's is suggesting that developers award at least 1000 Gamer Cred points per title.
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Last, but not least, is the" Gamer Card." Think of it as an at-a-glance gamer profile. The Gamer Card allows other online players to quickly see another's Gamertag, title, Gamer Creds, reputation rating, gamer zone, country, and title. It's a virtual membership card that helps gamers find people to play with. If you think you've found a match then you can select the Gamer Card to view that player's full profile to make sure.

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So apparently, the 'Gamer Cred' works like an e-penis, apparently, but for the Xbox, rather than the Internet.

This is all terribly exciting. I can't wait to see how well MS does when they lack the most powerful hardware AND the best exclusive titles.

#1 thing that Xbox Live needs added to it, above and beyond this "Game Cred" stuff? Let me list what Live games I have. That way, when I go to challenge somebody, I can know if they actually have the game or not.

Well, that, and create an Xbox Live interface that must be the minimum interface put into every game, so that companies can't keep making half-assed Live interfaces for their games. (Capcom, I'm looking at you.)

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

This is all terribly exciting. I can't wait to see how well MS does when they lack the most powerful hardware AND the best exclusive titles.

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Well, considering we haven't seen jack shit for numbers or any real hardware specs for the PS3, outside of the typical Sony overblown pre-hype, its a little early to make that statement.

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Originally Posted by Wildkat

Well, considering we haven't seen jack shit for numbers or any real hardware specs for the PS3, outside of the typical Sony overblown pre-hype, its a little early to make that statement.

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ok. Keep your hope alive that I am wrong, if it makes you feel better. Refuting the GAME part probably would help more though.

I honestly could care less, but this idea you have about the PS3's power is unrealistic. We have a totaly new, unproven, unknown processor in the thing that we dont even know what configuration Sony will end up using. The PS3 could end up being the omnipotent supercomputer the PS2 was supposed to be, or it could turn into the overhyped, underpowered pile of crap the PS2 actually became.

Lets let the system's show before we pass any judgement.

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Originally Posted by Wildkat

I honestly could care less, but this idea you have about the PS3's power is unrealistic. We have a totaly new, unproven, unknown processor in the thing that we dont even know what configuration Sony will end up using. The PS3 could end up being the omnipotent supercomputer the PS2 was supposed to be, or it could turn into the overhyped, underpowered pile of crap the PS2 actually became.

Lets let the system's show before we pass any judgement.

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Judging by the track record of Sony, which one is most likely?

Judgeing also from the fact that the Xbox2 probably isn't going to be what these dev kits are. It's pointless debate.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Judging by the track record of Sony, which one is most likely?

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That they dominate regardless of the system specs.

That wasn't in the scenario you jerk (although most likely true)

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Originally Posted by Tracer

It's pointless debate.

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There are no other kinds of debates on the internet.

Looks like tonite folks, XBox 2 will finally be unveiled.

GameIndustry.biz

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According to highly detailed information released by Xbox's Dutch PR firm Citigate today, Xbox 2 is designed to make life easier for developers - supporting familiar tech "such as DirectX, PIX, XACT and... XNA Studio", and wresting control of key Xbox functions like voice chat, Friends lists and custom soundtracks out of their hands in order to ease the production process and let them "focus on creating games, not developing for technical certification requirements (TCRs)."

In other words, things like voice communication, in-game Friends list management, custom soundtracks and the like will become standard features of the console - controlled, we're told, "at chip level" - and apply to every game regardless of whether or not the developer would have included them otherwise.

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After dealing with the horribleness that is SFAC's lobby system, this is fantastic news.

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CPU - Xenon's CPU has three 3.0 GHz PowerPC cores. Each core is capable of two instructions per cycle and has an L1 cache with 32 KB for data and 32 KB for instructions. The three cores share 1 MB of L2 cache. Alpha 2 developer kits currently have two cores instead of three.

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Another Sega Saturn?

Or another PS2? They are talking about multi-core, not multi-processor. It's more akin to what AMD and Intel are doing for their next-gen chips that are coming out later this year. Plus the Cell processor is going to be multi-core as well.

Anyone know of any sites having a feed of J. Allard's speech tonight?

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Originally Posted by Wolffen

Anyone know of any sites having a feed of J. Allard's speech tonight?

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Yes. http://www.majornelson.com/wp/index.php

A full 57 minutes of...I don't really know, other than fodder to keep fanboys of any and all persuasions clogging message boards all over the country. Enjoy.

Thanks PP. I'm hoping they'll show the interfaces for the Gamer Profiles and XBL. The Marketplace thing has me intrigued.

Yoshi, I agree with your issues about game exclusives, but I think that with the current information we know the PS3 is a big unknown in that area versus the Xenon. Microsoft has been on the forefront of making life easier and cheaper for developers, which may be enough to coax them over to develop for their platform.

Right now graphics and eye candy are what sells games to the public, it isn't necessarily good gameplay. Good gameplay is what makes franchises, but games with amazing graphics usually sell well enough just because of this fact (Doom 3 anyone). With the advent of further technology and more intricate modelling, animation and texture work (maybe not, if we keep going) the cost of producing a game aren't going to be going anywhere but up, so giving developers tools that enhance and hasten the gestation cycle of games, and the XBN tools promised that, is a huge deal.

If PS3 is a pain in the ass to develop for, and the costs are astronomical, then developers could jump to the Xenon simply because of the ease factor, and then port the games over to the PS3 after.

I know it's all speculation, because we haven't heard a lick about the PS3's development costs, but weren't developers pissed off about the PS2's processors or something like that? And wasn't there a rumor that some devs were crying at the announcement of 100 processors being in the next Playstation model because of the sophistication needed to co-ordinate all of that? If so, then the Xbox could be in for the top spot next generation.

If they launch Halo 3 when the PS3 launches Sony will be in for some serious competition. It just seems like MS is doing a lot to secure more marketshare this generation, enough to give Sony a run for its money.

None of this is solid, and I'm speculating heavily because of the unknown factors, but it could plausably play out like this.

That gamebiz article posted above lends itself more to my scenario, citing the Xbox 2's focus on creating games.

There are a few screenshots of the "Guide" for Xenon (profile, Gamer Cred interface, etc) at Xbox.com

To hit the point home that the new system is all about HD, J Allard gave out 1000 HDTVs to the people in the audience. That is pretty sweet.

Listening to the Keynote, I must say that Allard is a very good evangelizer (especially compared to Steve Balmer). Looking forward to see the video that goes with the audio.

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Originally Posted by Wolffen

Listening to the Keynote, I must say that Allard is a very good evangelizer (especially compared to Steve Balmer). Looking forward to see the video that goes with the audio.

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DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS

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and wresting control of key Xbox functions like voice chat, Friends lists and custom soundtracks out of their hands in order to ease the production process and let them "focus on creating games, not developing for technical certification requirements (TCRs).

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Even though I still think they are screwing up on the hard drive front, this is a BIG plus in my book. I think any basic features like these should be system wide, and not left to developers to screw up, as many will. While they are at it, though, they so think bigger, and do things like system wide video controls (brightness, screen position, color balance, etc.), controls configuration, game save management, and anything else that can done system-wide.

Oh, and also, PLEEEEEASE do something like DOA did, where an Xbox Live account can have seperate user name and Xbox Live Tag name. It's nice to know who those people are who end up having to use a different name than their usual handle because it was already taken.

im hoping with XNA and the fact that MS is making a studio solely devoted to it, that the devs take a serious look at the new MS machine and dont develope for the ps3 exclusively based on how much money SONY gives them. seems like MS has pretty much bent over backwards for the devs this round.

After looking at the pics up on the official Xbox site, I'm not so impressed. Star ratings for players? That's going to go well, and be useful. No seperation of nickname and Gamer Tag. No real list of what games you own, to let others know what to challenge you in. (Unless the "Creds" list lists every game you own, even if you haven't earned any.) The "Gamer Zone" item seems useless if it's going to be great categories like "Pro." (Why not list actual game genres you like, such as FPS, Racing, etc.?) They also add details that I think are pointless - like "Games played" and "Total amount of time online" - when they could have put much more useful things there.

Oh, I can't wait to see some of the great avatars that people give themselves. (Not that I'm against the idea - they should absolutely be there. I'm just saying.)

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

After looking at the pics up on the official Xbox site, I'm not so impressed. Star ratings for players? That's going to go well, and be useful. No seperation of nickname and Gamer Tag. No real list of what games you own, to let others know what to challenge you in. (Unless the "Creds" list lists every game you own, even if you haven't earned any.) The "Gamer Zone" item seems useless if it's going to be great categories like "Pro." (Why not list actual game genres you like, such as FPS, Racing, etc.?) They also add details that I think are pointless - like "Games played" and "Total amount of time online" - when they could have put much more useful things there.

Oh, I can't wait to see some of the great avatars that people give themselves. (Not that I'm against the idea - they should absolutely be there. I'm just saying.)

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just remember. the screens you see are alpha. things can, and probably will change.

I don't hold out a lot of hope, but I'll still hope.

They'll change depending on what users want. They're only small, menial variables.

I cant imagine it takes much effort to put in a "Total Time Online" section. Seriously.

But honestly, shidoshi, send Microsoft those comments. I think its obvious since 2001 that Microsoft has been listening to gamers and giving them what they want. Xbox Live has evolved quite a bit since the beginning.

I second what Diffx said, shidoshi. Email Microsoft with your suggestions. There's still time right now. Hopefully they'll be quicker to respond to/consider your suggestions than they were to the XBL beta testers.

I love the micropayments system. As long as it isn't abused, it could be a great thing. Meshes well with my take on Xbox Live Arcade too. :) Thank God for a consistent XBL interface, too. Microsoft seems very serious about focusing on the software/developer equation. By coming out a year before PS3, the Xenon has a great opportunity to get mindshare from developers tired of trying to squeeze more out of the PS2. Hopefully MS will do more to woo some major franchises away from Sony.

Yeah... I'm trying to find their suggestions e-mail address on their site, but no luck so far. If I'm going to bitch, I should do something about it or shut up.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

I think its obvious since 2001 that Microsoft has been listening to gamers and giving them what they want.

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IBTN.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS

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Thanks to you, I had that damned song going through my head all night while I was trying to get some sleep. :\

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

Yeah... I'm trying to find their suggestions e-mail address on their site, but no luck so far. If I'm going to bitch, I should do something about it or shut up.

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If nothing else, contact Major Nelson (Larry Hryb). He's Xbox Live's Director of Programming, and he could at least tell you the right place to go. He can be reached at Major@xbox.com.

i saw on TSS today that in addition to all this it seems like this setup is going to make it easier for companies to charge for extra content on their games. basically taking the idea of unlockables and charging for them, not just new content. i cant say id like this idea and any time kevin rose speaks i get sick so i hope he was very widely speculating. but they did say it seemed pretty evident this is going to be a way for the developers to make more money.

might still be called "xbox next". but probably just an old codename. still odd considering this is taken from this weeks GDC. http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000900035208/

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Originally Posted by Andrew

If they launch Halo 3 when the PS3 launches Sony will be in for some serious competition.

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Has such a thing ever worked? I mean nowadays every system seems to put out some kind of system seller the same week a competitor releases their system and they still allways seem to break some kind of record despite game x being released.

bungie has just recently doubled their staff. id say theyre gearing up for something.

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Originally Posted by Dragonmaster Dyne

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000900035208/

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LOL are they fucking using temepletes from powerpoint for their conferneces..ha

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Originally Posted by maruchan

LOL are they fucking using temepletes from powerpoint for their conferneces..ha

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whys that funny. its an MS product.

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Originally Posted by Dragonmaster Dyne

whys that funny. its an MS product.

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Because Powerpoint is trash and makes every presentation look awful?

But yea, it is an MS product.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Because Powerpoint is trash and makes every presentation look awful?

But yea, it is an MS product.

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Because there are far easier and superior slide presentation software packages out there. :rolleyes:

I'm just saying for a company that makes the program, you think they would use powerpoint to its true potential, not some half ass presention that you learn in your frist computer class...