History buffs

I was just reading a news article on Yahoo! ("China Won't Send Envoy to Pope's Funeral") about how China won't send an envoy to the Pope's funeral because of their policy of refusing to recognize states that have diplomatic relations with rival Taiwan.

Now, as I've read, China had a civil war between the Communists and Nationalists in which the Nationalists lost and fleed to Taiwan where they setup a self ruled democratic island. Since then China has always laid claim that Taiwan is part of China and any acts of secession will result in military force.

What I don't understand is before the Nationalists fleed to the island of Taiwan, was it already part of China or was it still and independent nation ran by the people of Taiwan? If any could clear this up for me it would be appreciated.

Wikipedia is your friend.

Obviously it has alot to do with the current tensions with taiwan, but China still being communist party ruled, there is no state religion, atheism is what the state goes by, thus churches are controlled by the state and ties with the vatican is a huge no no, so since China sees Taiwan a part of it's territory, therefore taiwans move has angered china.

The island of Formosa had been inhabited by its natives I think, until the nationalists came in.

And Mr. diff had a point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan <-- helps. ^_-

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Originally Posted by Hot Like Wasabi

What I don't understand is before the Nationalists fleed to the island of Taiwan, was it already part of China or was it still and independent nation ran by the people of Taiwan? If any could clear this up for me it would be appreciated.

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It was actually under Japanese control from 1895 until Chiang Kai Shek sent troops to free it in 1945. You may recall the Japanese were somewhat distracted at that point. Before that, it had been functionally a Chinese vassal state for 200 years, and fully independent (and largely unknown) before that.

I wanna see a twist of fate where China succeeds in imposing military authority over Taiwan and a few nukes get launched all over the mainland as a last minute suprise.

And that leads to the end of the world as we know it, the M.A.D. principle. Yeah, that'd be great. We could even have voltz riding one of the nukes himself, Slim Pickens style.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

It was actually under Japanese control from 1895 until Chiang Kai Shek sent troops to free it in 1945. You may recall the Japanese were somewhat distracted at that point. Before that, it had been functionally a Chinese vassal state for 200 years, and fully independent (and largely unknown) before that.

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I think your use of the words "sent troops to free it" are probably a lot too generous. Chiang Kai Shek set up a totalitarian government that could not be challenged in democratic elections until 1996. Ethnic Taiwanese were opposed to the KMT's oppression for the entirety of that 50 years, but because of the nature of totalitarianism, had little recourse in the situtation. And of course, over the course of 50 years of immigration, ethnic Taiwanese became a smaller and smaller population. It should also be noted that Chiang Kai Shek and the KMT overtook the island not to set up a new separate nation outside of China, but as a waiting place until they could overtake mainland China again, and have always considered Taiwan as part of China. I'm in no way sticking up for the Communists here; I should make that clear. But Chiang Kai Shek and the Kuomintang were/are not a party that exactly holds up as being some bastion of freedom and have had more than their fair share of corruption.

China, Taiwan, same place.

Note that my Taiwanese girlfriend looks like she's going to tear my head off. :)

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

Before that, it had been functionally a Chinese vassal state for 200 years, and fully independent (and largely unknown) before that.

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Well it wasn't really independent. China took it around 1660ish and from there a pretty large Chinese Population grew. Fujian province kept pretty close tabs on it.

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Originally Posted by Scourge

I think your use of the words "sent troops to free it" are probably a lot too generous.

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I get where you're coming from, but GMD rule has been far preferable to that of Imperialist Japan. Displacing ethnic populations is never a nice thing, but I can name tons of governments who have been worse (I'm picturing maps of Africa and Southeast Asia).

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Originally Posted by bbobb

Well it wasn't really independent. China took it around 1660ish and from there a pretty large Chinese Population grew. Fujian province kept pretty close tabs on it.

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Right, so subtract 200 years (I was speaking roughly) from the date the island was signed over to japan, and you come up with that 17th century date. Prior to that, the island wasn't just independent, it was semi-mythical. The Chinese had almost no ocean-worthy vessels throughout most of their history, and exploration was never a priority. Nobody really knew Taiwan existed.

The Chinese almost never even had any contact with Japan, aside from a few sailors who were blown to Okinawa. Almost all cultural interchange happened via Korea until the late 19th century.