Web Designers, Your day just got worse

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

To be honest, I really couldn't care less what people use to make their websites.

My problem is I think it is a bad idea to learn and live by things like Dreamweaver, where you have no real working knowledge of how the HTML you are creating works. There are always going to be times when they can't create the page exactly the way it needs to be, and you need to get your hands dirty directly in the HTML.

For me, personally, I'm very anal about how my code looks, so I won't let any WSYWIG programs like Dreamweaver touch it.

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Have you ever made a website for somebody with someone else coming in to webmaster it in mind? You may lose some work for your anti-Design program attitude (not that it's bad). I know some people want you to be versatile and keep on all of the latest tools, even if it means swallowing your pride.

99% of the fun for me is the hand-coding - so even though I've always said Dreamweaver's for pussies, I guess everyone has their own way of doing things.

I still haven't tried out Dreamweaver 'cause I've absolutely hated all other HTML editors I've used before. Always screw with my code and make it look ugly :/

Whatever gets the job done, quickest.
At the end of the day, if I get paid and the client is happy. I don't really give two shits what some internet nerds think of my DW use.

I think VB.NET is a horrible thing to use as an HTML editor.. everytime you press enter when designing the page it inserts a <p></p> tag. Do you know how fucking annoying that is? So I prefer to hand code it.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Have you ever made a website for somebody with someone else coming in to webmaster it in mind? You may lose some work for your anti-Design program attitude (not that it's bad). I know some people want you to be versatile and keep on all of the latest tools, even if it means swallowing your pride.

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The point is that HTML and CSS are not hard in the slightest bit. If someone makes a page properly, you don't even need to know the code to change things. (And really, a webmaster should know the code anyway.) It has nothing to do with 'flashing an e-penis,' it's about adhering to standards and making your code easy for others to take apart and modularize if they need to. Part of proper HTML is good formatting. Every PHP script I write generates properly formatted output. When I designed my old company's site (MacTalk) I did it by hand. The code was very neat and organized. Now look at it, after Dreamweaver had its way. (Not to mention putting in graphic links and poorly chosen fonts.)

It's a nice tool to learn what changes you make affect the page, but it shouldn't be used to maintain a page. But diff's right, in the end, if the product improves that will be awesome. I'm of the opinion that it will improve because Adobe has a good grip on what their customers want.

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Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

I think VB.NET is a horrible thing to use as an HTML editor.. everytime you press enter when designing the page it inserts a <p></p> tag. Do you know how fucking annoying that is? So I prefer to hand code it.

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Microsoft products are shit.

IIS does this when inserting database information, so that any code you write has to remember to remove the extra %0A%0D combination.

Hrm When do you use IIS to enter database information?

Do you know a better ASP.NET Editor?

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Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

Hrm When do you use IIS to enter database information?

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Using PHP to do inserts/updates/etc. Even on a one-line entry, it tosses that return/break crap.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

Eh... Dreamweaver is for sissies. An HTML-skewed text editor is all I've ever needed.

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Dude I used to feel the same way 5 years ago. You don't have to work in WYSIWYG -- you can use Dreamweaver in straight text edit mode and no there isn't any hidden junk code (a la Frontpage). Also you can preview the page as you build it. It makes things easier and quicker and if you must you can edit the code. It's like saying riding lawn mowers are for sissies cuz I push mowers around myself.

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Originally Posted by soundwave

Dude I used to feel the same way 5 years ago. You don't have to work in WYSIWYG -- you can use Dreamweaver in straight text edit mode and no there isn't any hidden junk code (a la Frontpage). Also you can preview the page as you build it. It makes things easier and quicker and if you must you can edit the code. It's like saying riding lawn mowers are for sissies cuz I push mowers around myself.

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Right, but I can do all the things Dreamweaver's text editor can with BBEdit Lite for free. Using DW for its text editor is a waste of the program. It's a great piece of software for starting out and Flash is great for band websites and whatnot.

Riding mowers where you sit down aren't for sissies, but they're nowhere near as cool as the ones where you stand.