Dead or Alive 4 - Official

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Originally Posted by Do You Like Erotic?

Probably Tekken and Virtua Fighter. Most people consider those games to be the standard. Personally, I enjoy all three, and while Virtua Fighter is definitely the most deep and complex, I find its depth to be far too cumbersome for me to really want to delve into.

By the way, I'm not saying any of the games is better than the other, so don't misconstrue my post as a way to start that old argument. That's just a pre-emptive warning.

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No I like all of those games also and I agree Virtua Fighter is the deepest out of those, but I thought he was talking about the gameplay itself not being smooth which I believe to be false because from my experience the gameplay runs really smooth.

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Originally Posted by BRAD73

No I like all of those games also and I agree Virtua Fighter is the deepest out of those, but I thought he was talking about the gameplay itself not being smooth which I believe to be false because from my experience the gameplay runs really smooth.

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lol...gameplay being smooth = framerate yo, F R A M E R A T E. shaq fu had a super high frame rate and was mega smooth, as was a good amount of all the horrible banpresto/bandai made anime based fighting games on the super famicom.

smooth turds still = turds. :D

ironically, if it werent for these shitty sfam fighters, i wouldnt have any material for all of my upcoming combo videos. lol

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Originally Posted by MrWhitefolks

While i enjoy all three titles for their own pros and cons, the doa series has continually been highly regarded(mainly among the internet crowd) as a competitive, compitent, deep and balanced fighting game ALONG the lines of VF and/or Tekken....which is where all the jokes come from.

You have to keep in mind that when talking about gameplay, i talk from the standpoint of high level arcade style fighting gameplay. counters to counters(known as chickens in tekken), frame advantage, wave dashing, box stepping, triangle dashing, wall games, light steps, ground games, etc are all game play elements that I take into consideration, not how smooth the game plays(cmon, shaq fu played "smooth" when it came out) when i address a gameplay engine.

While the graphic engine is always in high gear, the gameplay engine itself hasnt changed(for better) since the 2nd title(and it's numerous incarnations) which is a sign to me personally that the creators dont take the engine seriously when comparing it to other fighting games. it seems more as a way to put out a title that EVERYBODY(note: that isnt already into high tier level play in another title) can enjoy...be it the 8 year old, the 16 year old wapanese otaku douchebag, or even the 30 something that wants to show off his new system with a fighting game that's really purdy and is easy to get into.

Rather than creating a technically deep and balanced title that is on par with the tekken/vf series(granted, there IS top tier play in DOA, but due to it being relegated to consoles only, the amount of high level players is always going to be lower than any arcade fighter), they continually push out a marginally improved title that focuses on the greatness of it's graphic engine/framerate/number of outfits/online modes/interactive background objects/etc over everything else.

But lemme get off the fucking soapbox and get down to buisness. this game looks phenominal, but suffers from the same problem Kakuto Chojin did upon it's release(overly plastic characters). not that we shouldnt EXPECT this, since it's "Itagaki's game" and not anyone elses(we're just along for the ride kids, alot like with George Lucas and the Star Wars movies), but it sure would be nice to see them finally balance out some of the things people have been asking for since doa2/3 were released(instead of putting in paper/rock/scissor workarounds to the problems).

Either way in the end it doesnt matter. the fan base is huge enough to support it any way it looks/plays(regardless that the majority of the fanbase is made up of casual gamers that own madden) monetarily wise, and the debate about it's validity in the realm of so called "real" fighters will always be there to discuss as long as someone thinks they have a valid point regarding a game they are a "fan" of.

ps: ever notice that most people who talk about doa/guiltygear/kof/vf and how they are the most balanced, well built titles are usually(99.99%) the worst players ever in the history of fighting games? i find it highly ironic to have multiple forums/webpages devoted to games that people study to a manic degree, yet they cant win a match vs a human opponent due to that person being "cheap" or a "noob".

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Good point I see where you are coming from on your comparisons, this makes sense.

yeah, i've spent a shitload of time with all of these fighters(tekken moreso due to my tournament involvings) and have studied the engines and how they work pretty closely over the years. matter of fact, i do that alot lately with any old fighter i pick up, cause well; you gotta know how it works if you're gonna attempt to break it to your will so you can do amazing combos on them. :D

actually thinking back on it...when doa2 was hot in the arcades, i submitted a semi reliable "how to" guide(and then conferred with Reno, the resident TNL doa whore) on how to take the wave dash/light step technique from TekkenTag(which was out at the same time as DOA2) and use it in Tecmo's title to a startlingly usefull degree.

Have we not had this argument before? (And this was relative to Rumble Roses, hahaha christ)

I think there were two goals of the DoA games (relative to other fighting games): to simplify the core systems so that the meta-game comes into play more earlier and easier for players, and to increase variance all-around. The first point is important -- with most 'deep' fighting games, at low to mid levels of play the people playing the game are largely irreveleant. It comes down simply to who understands the core engine more. Whoever can execute better, who knows the more obscure frame data details, and so forth. Simplifying the engine lowers the amount of skill necessary to make things such as game adjustments and reading players more important, and playing the player becomes much more important.

The second point is non-intutative. Why would you want a skill-based game to be more random? Simply put, it is an ego saving strategy. For many new players, trying to learn a new fighting game is extremely demoralizing, and only the most dediciated will ever get beyond low-level play. Raising variance (by having such mechanics as a well-placed random counter doing insane damage) allows losing players to win more, while still lose over the long run. Imagine if poker had the variance of chess... it would suck! The bad players would all instantly lose their money, and top players would be stuck playing each other, unable to beat the game. Sounds a lot like how fighting games are now. It would not shock me (knowing that Itagaki is a compulsive gambler -- he wears those sunglasses so he can see into people's souls with the proper UV protection) if DoA was designed around a similar model. (That is a major problem with most FG communities: they are too focused on the short term. That is another rant for another time, though).

These two points are also why most core fighting game players do not like DoA. They want more involved game mechanics to come into play, and they want to be virtually assured of raping all of the noobs. I hated DoA2 when it first came out, but my opinion of the series has changed quite a bit, once I saw the game for what it is. It would be nice if they threw the more core players a freakin bone, though.

-Dippy

Yes, this has been discussed before, and I still believe DOAU is perfectly fine for what it is, and still compares favorably to other titles. I think it's silly to limit fighting games to some tiny, stagnant community anyway. DOA still offers the opportunity to rape noobs though...the chance factor just means you have to rape absolute noobs differently than intermediate noobs, but they get raped just the same. Top-level play is still mind games, move knowledge, anticipation, and reflexes just like every other fighter worth mentioning.

I think Dipstick's evaluation of the design philosophy is pretty insightful. -and probably why the top players, if playing seriously, only want to play 3-5 point matches, or 3-point tag-team matches. Sure, someone may get a lucky win here or there, but they'll never win the match overall.

Not that any of this has anything to do with the screenshots, which are just that.

gonna sum this up the short way in this edit cause the last thing we need is more "DOA IS COOL" "DOA SUXORS" drama:

1)the game will always be the same as to how it plays(sure, there are tweaks...but the core engine has been the same since doa2)

2)hell no we dont need more noob friendly garbage. the whole point of games are to learn how they work, and if you cant pony up the effort, then you shouldnt be able to reap a reward like winning. period.

3)itagaki = george lucas = haaaccck

4)the "insight" is retarded, and only comes from the "i hate srk.com" mindset that most online fanboys have. usually derived from being shunned by a so called "top-tier" message board.

it leads one to believe that all "high level american players" are elitist dicks and regard anyone outside their "inner circle" as a "noob"...which is complete bullshit. all top level players(or 99.99% of them) are friendly and just as normal as any other "noob" and one has to remember that ALL top level players are the same(regardless where they come from, as i've seen this statement used to beat down on the image of american players, yet they believe that japanese top tier players are some sort of gods to the community...when both are the exact same regardless)

ie: we just want to be the best we can, so we play against anyone we can to better ourselves at the game we play, regardless of skill level.

5)it sure does look pretty tho

http://www.gaming-age.com/news/2005/5/12-48

"Temporarily removed at the request of Tecmo."

Damage control once again?

anybody save those supposed "damage control" shots?

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Originally Posted by Cheebs

Damn, there's some jaded people here. First of all, this is a definate step over DOA Ultimate when you factor in the HD resolution. Second of all, games today don't look like DOA 3/Ultimate for the most part. Games today look like PS2 games. This is a HUGE leap over what the PS2 can do, hence a huge leap over what we're getting these days.

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Agreed. Especially with the HD resolution.

As for next gen prices, I think $70 for new games is quite reasonable. I will buy them for $20 as greatest hits, but the fanboys deserve to be raped. $70 is getting off light.