Software Piracy is Going to Get Even Worse.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20050518/tc_nf/35144

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Software Piracy Will Get Worse, Study Says

Elizabeth Millard, newsfactor.com Wed May 18, 1:40 PM ET

As Internet use broadens, it is likely that software piracy also will expand, according to a study done by the Business Software Alliance (BSA) and research firm IDC.
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Currently, about one-third of software used is illegally made copies. But within five years, that number could boom to two-thirds, with the value of pirated software nearing US$200 billion.

Worldwide revenue loss due to software piracy was estimated at $33 billion for 2004.

"These losses have a profound economic impact in countries around the world," said BSA president Robert Holleyman. "Every copy of software used without proper licensing costs tax revenue, jobs and growth opportunities for burgeoning software markets."

Disturbing Numbers

Another key finding in the report focused on piracy rates per country. Piracy decreased in 37 countries, increased in 34 and remained consistent in 16.

In 24 of the countries studied, the piracy rate exceeded 75 percent. Countries with the highest rates were Vietnam, Ukraine, China, Zimbabwe and Indonesia.

Those with the lowest piracy rates were the United States, New Zealand, Austria, Sweden and the United Kingdom.

Culture Clash

The BSA anticipates continued spikes in piracy activities due to a continued influx of new users in emerging markets and increased availability of pirated software through P2P networks.

Piracy operating as business-as-usual in some countries is a major factor, said Yankee Group analyst Laura DiDio.

"There are some places where they don't really think of it as piracy; they're just buying discounted software," she said. "Companies and the BSA are going to have to address the way that piracy has become the norm in some countries."

Class in Session

The BSA hopes to launch more education programs, policy initiatives and enforcement efforts in an attempt to lessen piracy.

The tactics have been used effectively in some locations. IDC noted that the United Arab Emirates adopted policies for curbing piracy in the 1990s, and now is on the list of low-piracy nations.

But it is likely that piracy still will be a difficult scourge in the years ahead. As IDC points out in the study, piracy is not uniform within a country -- it varies from city to city, and even among age groups within the same city.

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I also find it funny that blank CDs, DVDs, and the like would not be so popular if not for software piracy. It's created an industry on its own.
Discuss.

I could just see congress going everything they can to give law enforcement total power to invade your home and take everything that has a HD in it.

oh no... not my wrestling vids! not my roms! NOT MY PORN VIDS!! :eek:

When poor college kids like me are required to use $3000+ software packages for their major, how else would you think we would get our work done?

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Originally Posted by BrAnDX105

When poor college kids like me are required to use $3000+ software packages for their major, how else would you think we would get our work done?

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School discount, NFR copies, computer labs, whatever else they have available at your school.

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Originally Posted by BrAnDX105

When poor college kids like me are required to use $3000+ software packages for their major, how else would you think we would get our work done?

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Use the PC labs. I know at UCLA most of them are open 24 hours a day. If theyre not at your school... your school sucks.

As for this report... its using the same horseshit methodology and dodgy math as all these other reports. They assume every pirated copy would be a purchase if it was impossible to pirate. They act like they would lose the same amount of money from a pirate in Zimbabwe (GDP: $1,900).

Its fucking crap and doesnt tell anyone anything. The real question is if piracy is going up relative to growth or not?

Yeah, we have computer labs, but when you have an animation that requires 80-100 hours of work with a deadline, the lab just doesn't cut it. They do offer the resources, but only when they can have someone monitoring the studio which is never at the time you need it to be.

We do have PC and Mac labs that are open 24 hours a day, but those are all the bare bones no frills computers with none of the software packages I need to use.

So if the piracy rate in our country is so low, then why are they leaning on us so much?

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Originally Posted by Gymkata

So if the piracy rate in our country is so low, then why are they leaning on us so much?

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They can't get at china, so they point the finger at whoever's in line.

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Originally Posted by Gymkata

So if the piracy rate in our country is so low, then why are they leaning on us so much?

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There's a lot of piracy in the US. Still, its nowhere near a place like China, where 30-50% of all software and movies and music is pirated. Copyright and trademark law is also a lot stronger in the US than a place like China, which means that the US can theoretically do better at clamping down on what piracy is there.

I think China's problem come from what's not actually being sold there. I remember it was either sony or nintendo that just started trying to sell games there in order to curb the effect that was tearing at their profits.

Maybe they should start with all the bootleg GBA games on Ebay for one, because apparently Ebay doesn't care....

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Originally Posted by voltz

I think China's problem come from what's not actually being sold there. I remember it was either sony or nintendo that just started trying to sell games there in order to curb the effect that was tearing at their profits.

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No, China's problem comes from the fact that copyright laws are very weak and the government has no desire to stamp out piracy whatsoever. Its their priority, whatever, but its certainly not because things arent sold there, because they are. Especially business software.

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Originally Posted by BrAnDX105

When poor college kids like me are required to use $3000+ software packages for their major, how else would you think we would get our work done?

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My school sells the following for $5 for students. I believe they've never checked for id ever.
Adobe photoshop.
Autocad
SPSS
Word
Windows XP (2 versions i forget which)
Final Cut Pro

Most universities have an academic deal with the publishers/developers. If yours doesn't but you can prove you're enrolled you can probally contact them directly for the discounts.

This study is horse shit. Just becuase I pirate something, does not mean I'd buy it if I could not pirate it. I have no money to give these people in the first place.

This goes on from what IP said:

I read an article the other day in the economist which was making the exact same point that the total value of piracy is way exagerated by companies, just so as to have maximum impact in order to encourage a reduction in piracy.

What it said was that it assumed that for every piracy which took place, the companies counted it as a loss of sale, which is certainly quite an assumption...

"Just becuase I pirate something, does not mean I'd buy it if I could not pirate it. "
You obviously valued it if you pirated it. Do you steal expensive items at regular stores? No? Then shut up.

"When poor college kids like me are required to use $3000+ software packages for their major, how else would you think we would get our work done?"
Don't take that class then. No class I know of doesn't tell you what you need before hand.

All you guys do is look for excuses that are have no less of this "horseshit" that you speak of that these studies do.

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You obviously valued it if you pirated it. Do you steal expensive items at regular stores? No? Then shut up.

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Not nessecarily. How many shitty songs do you have downloaded, just for the hell of it? You don't have to like something to pirate it.

If I don't want to hear it, why the hell would I download it? The fact is that people do it because they perceive it as a victimless crime that they can get away with. I don't care how you sugarcoat it, that's what it is. If people thought they could get away with stealing a car 99.99999% of the time, they would. But then OH NO! "Oh, I wouldn't have bought the car is I wasn't able to steal it"...then don't steal it, asshat.

I knew you'd say something dickly like that.
It's for the sheer fact of DLing something stupid. You need no reason to download something, if it's free. This debate could go on forever. If there's no reason, then somone else finds a reason.

"You need no reason to download something, if it's free."
That's a load of crap. People do it because it MAY be good, or whatever. I don't randomly type in URLs in my browser for the hell of it. If I was doing that, it would be out of interest to see what I would find. THAT is the reason.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

"When poor college kids like me are required to use $3000+ software packages for their major, how else would you think we would get our work done?"
Don't take that class then. No class I know of doesn't tell you what you need before hand.

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You obviously know nothing about my school, or what my major is. My major is Computer Graphics, so I am REQUIRED to take these classes, they require you to use very expensive software packages. The studio at our school is only open from 10am - 6pm monday through friday, and on weekends is only open from 12-4pm sunday. Being that most computer graphics students like me have to take a full load of classes (15-18 credits) per semester, including 3 studios that are 5 hours long each, because of that, most CG students don't have much time to get to the lab during the rediculous day hours that they offer. On top of that, the lab isn't open nearly long enough to allow a student to produce an animation that takes 100+ hours of work.

My school DOES offer a year long liscence for Lightwave 3d, the 3d modeling and animation program we use, but it costs $250 a year. These are costs that were not outlined by the school when signing up for the program, because the school does offer studio hours with these programs available. But because of the hours the studios are open, it just isn't possible for student to produce the work of the quality they would want without either A) buying the yearly software liscence which is rediculously expensive, or B) pirating the program. I can say that I know of no one in my major (and I know pretty much everyone in my major since it is very small) that has actually bought the software liscence for Lightwave simply because it is rediculously expensive and just isn't realistic, or worthwhile to buy the liscence.

If you could justify spending $1000 over 4 years for a software package in college, well more power to you, but most students can't. It's not like my school doesn't offer alternatives to the year liscence, its that my school doesn't offer realistic alternatives to the year liscence, hence the rediculously schedualed studio times that are available.

So you change the price from 3000 to 250 dollars? Secondly, when you're later in your major, and they require you to buy fancy books later on, what do you do? Steal the book?

Ah the studies... the piracy... aaahh the terror.

They create burners, they create Blank cds, they create the internet... now they are pwnd.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

So you change the price from 3000 to 250 dollars? Secondly, when you're later in your major, and they require you to buy fancy books later on, what do you do? Steal the book?

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No, if you go and buy Lightwave 8, it will end up costing you close to $3000 total. If I would buy the year long software liscence over the course of my 4 years, it would cost me $1000. Regardless, I don't have $3000 for a permenant version of the program, and I don't have $250 per year for a liscence that will expire.

Also, these fancy books you talk about normally arn't more than $100 NEW. If you goto amazon or Ebay, like I do every symester, I get these books for normally an 1/8 of the cost. I also typically make money on my books, because I buy them so cheap online, and when I sell them back I get more than I actually payed for them.

edit: I also don't get the assumption you make about when you get later into your major, you need to get fancy books. The price of books doesn't get more expensive depending on your year in college and how specialized you are. I don't know where you went to college, but the price of the book is dependant on the price of the book, and not your major, your specialization, or your year in school.

I feel like Joust has been personally hurt by someone who pirated software. Did someone throw a cd at your head that had Photoshop burned on it?

"I would buy the year long software liscence over the course of my 4 years, it would cost me $1000"
OH NO!!!! Um, I spent over 1000 dollars a year on books. And what happens when the books are written for your class SPECIFICALLY?

"I feel like Joust has been personally hurt by someone who pirated software."
No, you're just making up sorry excuses.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

OH NO!!!! Um, I spent over 1000 dollars a year on books. And what happens when the books are written for your class SPECIFICALLY?

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When books are written for your class specifically, those are called 'readers' at our school, and arn't normally more than $20 a piece.

Maybe its because you didn't have the option to use amazon.com, ebay, or half.com in college, but if you did, you got raped on books, because I spend no where near $1000 per year on books, and I get normally more money than I spent back because I bought them online used.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

No, you're just making up sorry excuses.

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No, I'm doing what I need to do so I don't go broke. Whichever way you want to look at it though.

edit: It's also what I need to do so I am able to get my work done in a timely and quality fashion, because the times they offer students to be able to work in their studios really are the most inconvenient times ever. Most students at my school don't use the lab, and have pirated the software because of the schools arangments with the students.

So admit you're a lame-o then. WHen you have a kid, are you going to steal anything that you didn't account for in your investing? ANd half of my books were brand new and couldn't be bought on any of those. You're a bald-faced liar.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

ANd half of my books were brand new and couldn't be bought on any of those. You're a bald-faced liar.

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All I can say is that really sucks then. Because that has NEVER happened to me. EVERY book I have gotten throughout college has been purchased online, and I don't plan to stop now. Hell, most of the time I even get the international versions because those are far cheaper than the ones published here.

Also, I'm finally noticing how big of a douche bag you are Joust.

Heh, you're the one that claimed the school forces you to buy a 3000 dollar program to get a degree.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

Heh, you're the one that claimed the school forces you to buy a 3000 dollar program to get a degree.

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Your the one who has SEVERE reading comprehension problems, because I never said that.

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Originally Posted by Me

When poor college kids like me are required to use $3000+ software packages for their major, how else would you think we would get our work done?

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Not only did I never say the word "buy" and "$3000+ software package" in the same sentence, I explained my rational, and all the different options we have, and how they are not viable. Quit being a complete asshole and give it up.

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Originally Posted by burky

What it said was that it assumed that for every piracy which took place, the companies counted it as a loss of sale, which is certainly quite an assumption...

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Look at RIAA.

LOL. $250 a year for the license is NOTHING. Especially since, I imagine, you use that for a large chunk of your classes. I would spend at least $250 a QUARTER (three quarters a year) on books. Usually it was closer to $350. And yes, that is after deal-hunting.

Brandx, just admit that youre fucking pirating and be done with it. Admit that what youre doing is wrong and youre doing it because you feel like it, not because you have to. Stop with your lame ass justifications, and definitely dont start the "school didnt tell me about it" garbage because I know as well as you do that hidden charges are as much part of the college experience as frat parties.

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The price of books doesn't get more expensive depending on your year in college and how specialized you are.

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Yes they do. Look at the books that real majors need to use.

When youre a math major (like myself, and Joust I believe), youre typically spending $80-$120 per book, and usually for a one-shot class. Every once in a while you get lucky and can use the book twice, or its only $75, but thats not the norm.

Jim Doyle has been planning on passing a stupid download tax law that probably won't get many votes, but it's pretty stupid considering that he's likely to once again drive piracy foward thanks to added costs.

$1.7 mil possible revenue gain.... somebody needs to slash his tires (and blaim it on Korean).

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Originally Posted by voltz

Jim Doyle has been planning on passing a stupid download tax law that probably won't get many votes, but it's pretty stupid considering that he's likely to once again drive piracy foward thanks to added costs.

$1.7 mil possible revenue gain.... somebody needs to slash his tires (and blaim it on Korean).

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Most countries in Europe (and Canada) have a tax on CD-Rs and DVD-Rs and that tax money goes right into the RIAA equivalents.

The day I give a shit about another dude downloading some fuckin software illegally is the day I fuckin put a gun to my head and end it all.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Yes they do. Look at the books that real majors need to use.

When youre a math major (like myself, and Joust I believe), youre typically spending $80-$120 per book, and usually for a one-shot class. Every once in a while you get lucky and can use the book twice, or its only $75, but thats not the norm.

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But that price isn't standarized, it's dependant on the class. I've taken an intro to art history class where the book new was $150 (I got it for around $60 used), and the next year I took the class after that and the book cost me less than $50.

I admit I'm a pirate, hell, I'm downloading Revenge of the Sith right now.

If the school provided me viable options for using this software, I wouldn't have to pirate it. Maybe it's that I just cannot justify spending $1000 for a liscence of a program for 4 years, when at other schools, with better software liscencing deals have these liscences for a 1/4 of the price, or maybe it's because I'm a bad person like Joust points out, I don't know.

And it's not like I havn't used the schools software liscence agreements to my advantage, because I was able to get the Macromedia software package (which we are also required to use) for $100 for 4 years. And these are programs I could have EASILY pirated by going to Macromedia's site, downloading the 30 day trials, and cracking them, like most people I know do.

It's just the lab time available, and the cost of the liscencing agreement are not viable options for me, so I pirated the program (in terms of Lightwave, not the Macromedia package).

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Most countries in Europe (and Canada) have a tax on CD-Rs and DVD-Rs and that tax money goes right into the RIAA equivalents.

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That always bugged me. They're only formats that can be used for storing data, home movies, etc etc, but just because they can handle music and play in a CD player, they get used to cut an additional profit for parties non-involved with their use.

I forgot to mention also, everything on the internet is free :link:

Till you get caught. :chu:

That's the troof. :sonic:

Joust seems to be speaking for alot of people all at once here.

How do you really know that I'd go out and buy every single piece of software I download (music included) if I couldn't download it. If I'm unsure about an artist then I'll download some songs and get a feel for them, but I certainly wouldn't spend $15 on a CD that I was questionable about. So I have some albums on my computer that I don't necessarily "love" or "like" but have merely acquired, aka I'm not spending money on them anytime soon and I never would have.

So back to the original question, no you don't know. In fact, you're completely wrong. Do you understand now?

"stealing" intellectual property will never be as harmful to buisness as, say, shoplifting, which is only a minor nuisance to buisness. There is no proof that increased downloading of music or movies has led to the loss of any sales in America.

It's either copyright infringement, or theft, but congress and big business have it so fucked in the head they actually push for jail time for causing a violation. One of these days, these laws are gonna have to be contested and thrown out cause they violate what we have currently written.

What makes this all even worse, is I just tryed to boot up my pirated copy of Lightwave, and it doesn't work anymore :(

I'm the worst pirate ever.

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Originally Posted by BrAnDX105

What makes this all even worse, is I just tryed to boot up my pirated copy of Lightwave, and it doesn't work anymore :(

I'm the worst pirate ever.

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http://www.student.uwa.edu.au/~culle...k-internet.gif

Somebody should edit a pirate hat and sword onto that pic. :p

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Originally Posted by BrAnDX105

That's the troof. :sonic:

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....

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Originally Posted by voltz

http://www.student.uwa.edu.au/~culle...k-internet.gif

Somebody should edit a pirate hat and sword onto that pic. :p

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http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...id=15591&stc=1

I totally made this with my pirate copy of photoshop.

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Originally Posted by Mman

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I totally made this with my pirate copy of photoshop.

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Fantabulous.

While I agree with diff and Joust about BrAnDX's douchebaggery lying to himself and the rest of the world to make himself feel better ("Waaah, it's $3000!; okay, it's $250 a year."), I'm still waiting for the moment diff figures out that Joust is Bob Vila and just stops agreeing with him on principle.

one more edit...I'm bored.

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...id=15592&stc=1

I'm sure he knows.

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Originally Posted by Mman

one more edit...I'm bored.

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...id=15592&stc=1

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Shouldn't that be Arrrr!? And where is the eyepatch? Where is the Parrot on the shoulder? The pointing finger should be a hand with a hook! This is half-assed. The map is nice though...

heh, that's perfect!

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Originally Posted by Master

Shouldn't that be Arrrr!? And where is the eyepatch? Where is the Parrot on the shoulder? The pointing finger should be a hand with a hook! This is half-assed. The map is nice though...

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don't tempt me

"I'm still waiting for the moment diff figures out that Joust is Bob Vila and just stops agreeing with him on principle."
He knows. And you're still an idiot.

That reminds me, I've been meaning to install that copy of Photoshop 8.0 I downloaded a while ago. Finally time to replace that half-assed CS 7.0 crack that requires me to change my PC calender.

Photoshop CS2 (9) is out, you know.

...Wow, I wrote the wrong name on the disc. That's 9.0 I burned but haven't installed and 8.0 I need to replace. Not that it really matters with PS, you can be as far as version 5 and still be perfectly viable for creating art.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

"I'm still waiting for the moment diff figures out that Joust is Bob Vila and just stops agreeing with him on principle."
He knows. And you're still an idiot.

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At least acknowledge my response.

I missed it, sorry.

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How do you really know that I'd go out and buy every single piece of software I download (music included) if I couldn't download it. If I'm unsure about an artist then I'll download some songs and get a feel for them, but I certainly wouldn't spend $15 on a CD that I was questionable about. So I have some albums on my computer that I don't necessarily "love" or "like" but have merely acquired, aka I'm not spending money on them anytime soon and I never would have.

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Hah, thats the fundamental problem with the BSA's math, of course. There's plenty of other problems, too (pirating a copy of Windows in Zimbabwe costs MS the same as a copy in the US, wtf).

But the BSA isnt gonna change their formula, and theyre not gonna stop paying off politicians as long as their formula shows an increase year after year. So I dunno.

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Not that it really matters with PS, you can be as far as version 5 and still be perfectly viable for creating art.

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Thats what happens with software... it gets so mature that everything becomes fluff. Visual Studio hit that wall when .NET came out, and Office hit it after... probably Office 95 if not earlier. Thats when you get situations like Microsoft putting Clippy in, then taking Clippy out, and trying to charge customers twice.

BSA?

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Originally Posted by OmniGear

BSA?

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Business Software Association... you know, like the IDSA of business software?

Gotcha.

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Originally Posted by voltz

Jim Doyle has been planning on passing a stupid download tax law that probably won't get many votes, but it's pretty stupid considering that he's likely to once again drive piracy foward thanks to added costs.

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Yeah, this is what irks me. If piracy starts eating into their profits, more than likely companies are probably going to raise prices, which just leads to even more piracy. If people can't justify the price initially, you think they're gonna jump on a product when it costs even more? Some logic.

Christ! Seems the FBI and MPAA got after Elitetorrents.org for spreading multiple copies of SW epIII around and are looking for jail terms. I think this has more to do with that family values crap Bush signed to coincide with these latest actions.

I'm just glad I never sign my name to any of these.

Oh no! People breaking the law are getting in trouble!

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

Yeah, this is what irks me. If piracy starts eating into their profits, more than likely companies are probably going to raise prices, which just leads to even more piracy. If people can't justify the price initially, you think they're gonna jump on a product when it costs even more? Some logic.

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You (you in general) cant have it both ways.

You cant say that "most people who pirate werent gonna buy it anyway" and "raising prices increases piracy". In any case, I dont think any significant study has been done to prove or disprove the latter claim (and the IDSA, BSA, etc. will never conduct one).

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

Oh no! People breaking the law are getting in trouble!

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You'd been a ton of fun back in the booze banning days.

You're drawing a parallel between the Prohibition and piracy? You are one crazy guy.

Actually, I don't drink anyway, so I don't care.

Well, your comment seems to show that you feel that people getting screwed over by the law is ok, as long as they broke a law.

Not all laws are fair or needed.

I feel that you are being way to black and white about this. Or at least you seem to be acting in a way that shows you feel that way.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

Actually, I don't drink anyway, so I don't care.

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No wonder you're so lame.

"Well, your comment seems to show that you feel that people getting screwed over by the law is ok"
Yeah, next time I get punished for stealing some dude's possessions in his house, I am going to complain about how I got screwed over by the law. Do you think that people are going to sympathize?

"Not all laws are fair or needed."
Yeah, but I'm not going to leave it up to you and voltz to tell me which ones those are.

"No wonder you're so lame."
OK, world class funnyman.

God, math majors are all such fucking assholes.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

"Well, your comment seems to show that you feel that people getting screwed over by the law is ok"
Yeah, next time I get punished for stealing some dude's possessions in his house, I am going to complain about how I got screwed over by the law. Do you think that people are going to sympathize?

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I bet you are for cutting off the hands of starving kids who steal to eat too.

I honestly don't know if you are being serious anymore or not. How are these things remotely related, other than the fact that someone is taking something?

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

I honestly don't know if you are being serious anymore or not. How are these things remotely related, other than the fact that someone is taking something?

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You tell me. You tried to relate you breaking into someone's house and stealing thier shit to someone priateing software. Kids stealing to eat relates just as much. All of them only relate in that someone is taking stuff.

No it doesn't. A starving KID who NEEDS to steal a necessary good to eat will have a lot more sympathy from me than some douchebag trying to get a movie off the internet.

It is still three different things. For piracy to be like someone breaking into your house they would need to break into your house, bring wood, and build a perfect copy of your coffie table, then leave with the copy of your coffie table. You'd then have to sell your coffie table and it not sell because Joe the theif who was going to buy your coffie table did not do so because he already has the copy he made while you were sleeping last thursday.

You aren't filling a need by stealing a movie though. And the pirater is certainly not giving back to the piratee. Well that and I wasn't cutting anyone's hands off.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

And the pirater is certainly not giving back to the piratee.

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Stealing is not the absence of giving.

So piracy isn't "stealing". What's your point? You're taking something without it's owner's/distributors permission, and therefore are doing something wrong.

Well, it is stealing, seeing as how you are taking something that you are not allowed to take by law.

You are painting things as black and white when they are not Joust. Youare not physically taking anything when you download a movie or music. The legality is ambiguos at this current time.

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

So piracy isn't "stealing". What's your point? You're taking something without it's owner's/distributors permission, and therefore are doing something wrong.

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So you’re against people taping things off tv? You don't have permission to do that either.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

Well, it is stealing, seeing as how you are taking something that you are not allowed to take by law.

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In most cases they aren't taking anything. They aren't even taking a bootleg copy. They are dling something vastly inferior. MP3s are not CDs. Companies used to do that all the time. Fender did it to RCA and Marshall did it to Fender.

"Youare not physically taking anything when you download a movie or music."
Irrelevant. If I spy on a company and take their idea, I am committing a crime.

"You are painting things as black and white when they are not Joust."
Actually, they are quote black and white in most cases. Just admit what you're doing (or what other people are doing) is wrong.

"In most cases they aren't taking anything."
They most certainly are.

"They are dling something vastly inferior. MP3s are not CDs. Companies used to do that all the time."
Irrelevant. Geez, this isn't rocket science.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

"They are dling something vastly inferior. MP3s are not CDs. Companies used to do that all the time."
Irrelevant. Geez, this isn't rocket science.

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It is relevant. That is how justice works. Case by case.

Yeah, and in THIS case, it is illegal. And in any case in which you would be the defendant, I'll bet dollars to donuts that it is illegal there too.

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

In most cases they aren't taking anything. They aren't even taking a bootleg copy. They are dling something vastly inferior. MP3s are not CDs.

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Because millions of people aren't replacing their cd-players with Ipods, are they?

I can admit that what I'm doing is wrong, but the other side isn't necessarily "right."

What is and isn't the law doesn't matter, unless you actually think the penal system is fair and balanced.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

Yeah, and in THIS case, it is illegal. And in any case in which you would be the defendant, I'll bet dollars to donuts that it is illegal there too.

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You sure you wouldn't cut the hands of children?

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

You sure you wouldn't cut the hands of children?

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If you think that college students stealing movies and music are anywhere near as blameless and innocent as children stealing to survive, you're an idiot.

It's funny because this all started because of me, and how I got a pirated copy of Lightwave 3d because I NEEDED the program, because the school I goto does not provide any easy option for accessing the program, and I couldn't afford to pay the liscencing fee's or the full price of the program.

Cut my hands off!

Well ain't that tough.

This didn't start because of you. For years, it's been "I want it, so it should be free"...anyone defending piracy should be stealing goods from a store. But they don't. Want to know why? Because there's a much better chance of being caught. And these defenders should rise up and defend the acts of auto thieves around the world. They weren't going to buy it anyway, right?

Of course, you weren't going to buy LW 8 anyway, right? You were just going to transfer to some major that has no significant financial requirement (like philosophy or something)...

I just farted.

That sounds like something a pirate would do.

I'm onto you, Piratey O'Norespectforcopyrightson.

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Originally Posted by FirstBlood

If you think that college students stealing movies and music are anywhere near as blameless and innocent as children stealing to survive, you're an idiot.

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Yeah, the kid is more blameless and innocent. That is why the case is different, and because it is different we handle it differently. So like, wtf, omg, piracy is different from physical theft, so like maybe it should be handled differently too. wtf lollers kthx bye

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

Yeah, the kid is more blameless and innocent. That is why the case is different, and because it is different we handle it differently. So like, wtf, omg, piracy is different from physical theft, so like maybe it should be handled differently too. wtf lollers kthx bye

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It actually is handled differently.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

Well ain't that tough.

This didn't start because of you. For years, it's been "I want it, so it should be free"...anyone defending piracy should be stealing goods from a store. But they don't. Want to know why? Because there's a much better chance of being caught. And these defenders should rise up and defend the acts of auto thieves around the world. They weren't going to buy it anyway, right?

Of course, you weren't going to buy LW 8 anyway, right? You were just going to transfer to some major that has no significant financial requirement (like philosophy or something)...

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again, this only applies if said thief comes in with a tool shop, scrap metal, and a forge and builds a copy of the car , and steals the copy he made.

That is a key difference between the two. The courts know this, the industry knows this. That is why they harp on and on about people losing money from lost revenue. It is the only thing they can claim they lost.

Truth be known piracy in many forms is not against the law. It is lawful to copy technology and sell it as your own if you change it enough.

Taking some kid to court over having an avi file of a movie is like Fender sueing Marshall for making tweaked Bassman (or maybe it was band master, I forget) amps. Sure, Fender lost a shit load of money to Marshall selling a tweaked form of their amp, but we've yet to see this law suit in the 30 or 40 years Marshall has been around.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

It actually is handled differently.

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If it was up to Joust, BrAnDX105 and some master theif would be sharing a white room with bars right now.

I guess youre trying to make the argument that its less severe to pirate/distribute software online than to actually physically steal a copy. But Im not sure if that is true.