Printable View
Do you? most people think of sony as evil , and that they killed off 2D by restricting the releases of 2D games. I remember that they also had restricted RPG's at one time.....yet the system had loads of good RPG's.The truth is that the psone had loads of good 2D fighters and shooters which noone really cares about.The 2D fighters on the psx were pretty dull though.
Also , people think that sony brought gaming into the mainstream. And then the whole hardcore Vs mainstream
I dont really think they are evil, but I dont like them. I guess that is all.
Z-roe
Yes, but they are less evil than Nintendo was at the height of their popularity, and not even close to the ruthlessness Microsoft practices. Still, I stopped caring long ago, since business has its own warped morality that doesn't fit with the rest of the world's idea of what's fair. But as long as nobody's getting killed or anything it's hardly a big deal.
No, Sony isn't evil, they're just very clever. When you get to be very clever, people will resent that and name it 'evil.' Yes, they made the PS2 as a pile of electronic poo, but they didn't force people to buy it like it was more important to life than oxygen.
I think they did basically what any other company would do in their place, like MS does in the OS market, or Nintendo in the handheld area. Evil is just enough word for ruthless cleverness.
True. They simply claimed it could fire missiles. :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by Ammadeau
Yes, they made the PS2 as a pile of electronic poo, but they didn't force people to buy it like it was more important to life than oxygen.
Well I don't like them, but I wouldn't call them 'evil'. They have been impressing me with a lot of games lately though, and provided SOCOM is as good as I'm anticipating it to be, I may start liking them. A lot even :)
yes.
I just hated the PlayStation 1 with a passion. During the 90s, the most popular gaming console in the world did not house anything that I liked about gaming (2-dimensional graphics, action games). Hell, the system wasn't even capable of adequately reproducing what I liked about video games, thanks to the low system RAM. Also, the visual quality of the PSX was laughably poor. I really despised the state of the 32-bit gaming generation across the board, and I completely turned away from console gaming because of it (until I heard news of an arcade-perfect X-men vs Street Fighter, at which time I bought a Saturn and RAM pack/converter combo along with that game). The visual clarity of 128-bit graphics, the PS2 current and (most importantly) upcoming library, and Sega's presence on the platform has helped me change my negative view of Sony.
I still do think that all Sony products are cheaply-manufactured, overpriced appliances, and their competition has always released a better-quality product for less or equal price and value, be it a video game system, flatscreen television, PC, etc.
The psx had loads of good 2D games. The fighters were pretty bad , though.
Yes, yes I do. But I've gotten used to it. In fact, I almost respect the way they totally played Microsoft and stole the thunder with the whole price drop thing.
Evil? No.
Arrogant and over-rated? Yes.
Not many traditional action games though. Symphony of the Night? PO'd? Gunners Heaven? That's all I know of, pardon my ignorance of the PSX library. Honestly I never gave the PSX a fair chance, if there's indeed a fair chance worth having with the system.Quote:
Originally posted by xS
The psx had loads of good 2D games. The fighters were pretty bad , though.
I think this is a very accurate thought. A corporation b definition cannot be "evil". There is no question that they are arrogant from the top down and highly overrated, although both of those negative traits pales in comparison to Microsoft's.Quote:
Originally posted by Black Arts Viper
Evil? No.
Arrogant and over-rated? Yes.
If being a well-known company that releases a very succesful game console that attracted several well-kwown 3rd-party developers, then yes, they're evil. Sony is no more evil than Nintendo or Microsoft. Everyone treats Nintendo like their best friend, but everyone keeps forgetting their monopolist tactics during the NES days and their cutthroat policies regarding 3rd-party companies. Of course, nobody can hate the company that brought us Mario and Zelda among other games. Then again, SCEA has rejected several games (mainly from smaller companies) for stupid reasons.
I also found the pre-release hype of the PlayStation2 to be irritatingly pretentious. Every console manufacturer indulges in hyperbole so potential customer will look in their system's direction, but Sony's frivilous claims of the PS2 were outright nauseating. Casual gamers and little kids ate that BS right up and accepted claims like "Yuo can Jack into teh Matrixs!" as fact :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Undaunted
Everyone treats Nintendo like their best friend, but everyone keeps forgetting their monopolist tactics during the NES days and their cutthroat policies regarding 3rd-party companies.
I haven't forgetten, just forgiven.Quote:
Then again, SCEA has rejected several games (mainly from smaller companies) for stupid reasons.
This has to be one of the dumbest questions I've ever seen asked.
How exactly is a video game system "evil"? Do you know what that word means?
Osama Bin Laden is evil, Sony is not, they are just trying to make a profit and win the console wars.
JU also brought up a good point on Nintendo.
Isn't Nintendo the same company releasing butchered SNES port after butchered SNES port on the GBA? Aren't they the same company releasing ports of older Mario games on the GBA when they could have easily released them all on one cart, a la Mario All Stars/World?
Nah, it can't be.
Calm down, no one is forcing you to buy these ports. I would like to see some new original Mario game on the GBA, but sooner or later, Nintendo will release every Mario game out there for the GBA and they'll be forced to make something new. Releasing these classics are a good thing because now younger kids don't have to scour Ebay or some shady online game store to buy the classics. The only port I really want is Yoshi's Island which I don't own but I rented and beat when it came out. Nintendo is actually quite smart for making more money on the classics.Quote:
Originally posted by GameFreak
Isn't Nintendo the same company releasing butchered SNES port after butchered SNES port on the GBA? Aren't they the same company releasing ports of older Mario games on the GBA when they could have easily released them all on one cart, a la Mario All Stars/World?
As for Sony, I have to give them credit for overpowering Nintendo, but sooner or later, Sony can lose their top spot being so arrogant. Could it go to Microsoft? I'll be very scared if that does happen. The DOJ will have to step in soon after that. =)
I've had to vend Sony products for months now and it is very evident to me that their products are substandard. Just look at the specs in any manual. You'll see that the harmonic distortion on their receivers are ridiculously high, yet they still charge more than the competition. Ditto for the TV's and speakers and other devices. It's really a joke.
They may charge a tad too much for them, but their TVs are top notch. So are their monitors.
They charged too much for the PS2, but that's fixed now ^_^
I can't call them evil...they just don't play the way that the old dogs (Sega and Nintendo) did. They dabble in all electronics. They play up to the mainstream and casual crowds. They don't market off of first party titles or mascots. And despite loving my new PS2, it is in no way a GC or XBox in terms of what the graphics can do, yet Sony has millions convinced that it's the other way around. Is that evil, clever, or whatever? Who knows...I just find it a bit irritating. Won't keep me from playing what I like though.
I can't vouch for the monitors or the xbr series (since I don't come into contact with them) but their projection TV's, despite having some nice bells and whistles, are completely inferior to the Pioneer, Hitachi and Mitsubishi Projections.Quote:
Originally posted by Saint of Killers
They may charge a tad too much for them, but their TVs are top notch. So are their monitors.
Sony is evil as the day is long. I've gone on record several times saying that their hobby-killing PS1 is pure mass market evil incarnated in a little grey box.
Im sorry , but people on these boards tend to view sony as an evil conglomerate ,rather than any another company.Oh and Osamas isnt all that bad of a guy.....he gave me a ps2 for my birthday......:rolleyes:* bad joke*.Quote:
Originally posted by GameFreak
This has to be one of the dumbest questions I've ever seen asked.
How exactly is a video game system "evil"? Do you know what that word means?
Osama Bin Laden is evil, Sony is not, they are just trying to make a profit and win the console wars.
Sony is not evil. Every hardware company has pissed me off in different ways. Nintendo had their excessive censorship and strict policies. Sega has left excellent games in Japan. Sony puts low-quality lasers in their machines.
Anyone who thinks Sony caused 3d doesn't know much about gaming history. The 3 biggest pushers of polygons were Atari Games, Sega and Namco, all of which pioneered various 3d games in the arcades.
Sony didn't mainstream-ize anything more than Nintendo did in the late '80's. The casual gamer back then bought millions of copies of the mediocre Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for NES while masterpieces like Phantasy Star sold infinitely less. How it that any different than now?
What really sucked about the PSX was the complete lack of 2D games. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
Sony is evil as the day is long. I've gone on record several times saying that their hobby-killing PS1 is pure mass market evil incarnated in a little grey box.
Yes, Sony definitely is evil because the DVD tray on my PS2 makes a terrible grinding when I open it. :( Those EVIL bastards!
While it's obviously outnumbered by 3D games on the console, I don't exactly know why people say that the PSX offers nothing in terms of 2D. Outside of the fighting game transition blunders, there's a very respectable library of 2D games on the console.
Gunners Heaven, Hermie Hopperhead, Panzer Bandit, Castlevania: SotN, Castlevania Chronicles, The Adventures of Little Ralph, Klonoa, Valkyrie Profile, several shooters and RPGs I can go on for awhile longer naming, but I need not go into great detail. A good number of 2D games on the PSX are ones Sony published themselves.
Remember, even though the Saturn was a respectable 2D powerhouse, it's not as though Sega went out of the way to keep the medium alive. Nintendo either, outside of handhelds. Why Sony always gets the scorn from gamers over a few qualms which happened largely in the early days of the PSX is beyond me. And how Sony did more to "mainstreamize" gaming by merely being as successful as Nintendo was in the NES days, and creating a brand name for themselves, is pretty baseless. I'd love it if somebody could explain this to me.
I'm not trying to come off as a holy Sony defender, but let's just get some things in perspective here.
*Gives wilycat a noble prize* if only everyone else thought like this......
The emphasis of 3d over 2D was a mistake of the entire industry, not just Sony (if you can call it a mistake since the industry is more lucrative than it has ever been). Sony really didn't do all that much. I just think that they are associated with the death of the hobby since it's release coincided with the mainstream boom.
Really though,we all sound like all those actors and producers in the 20's and 30's who lamented the death of silent films as the "talkies" got more popular (myself included)
If keeping them silent would have kept Ben Affleck off the silver screen, then they were right...Quote:
Originally posted by amerlop
Really though,we all sound like all those actors and producers in the 20's and 30's who lamented the death of silent films as the "talkies" got more popular (myself included)
Good point. The move to push 3D gaming over 2D was something that happened across the industry as a whole. Blaming Sony for the entire "death" of 2D is merely fingerpointing.Quote:
The emphasis of 3d over 2D was a mistake of the entire industry, not just Sony (if you can call it a mistake since the industry is more lucrative than it has ever been). Sony really didn't do all that much. I just think that they are associated with the death of the hobby since it's release coincided with the mainstream boom.
To elaborate on Sony's push to drive gaming into the mainstream; Sony is doing what every leading console developer has done in the past, something which is good for their business interests. In the NES days, Nintendo really tried to push the hobby of gaming further into the mainstream spotlight. All the countless TV shows, cartoons, product tie-ins, and cereals that Nintendo stamped their name and franchises all over was the real beginning of the push to put gaming in the forefront of youth entertainment.
Once Sega got a good slice of the marketshare in the US with the Genesis, you don't think characters like Sonic were created because they had the potential for mainstream appeal? Sega did everything they could in the Genesis days to make gaming as "cool" to teenagers as possible, with their IN-YOUR-FACE SEGA! ads, and games with heavy mass appeal.
Many of the games we now regard as "hardcore" were ones that were originally designed to appeal to the masses. All Sony did was up the ante with the release of their system. The entire gaming industry has been moving from niche appeal to mainstream success since the Atari 2600.
And does ANYONE who believes those things, I dunno, have ANYTHING to back up those two statements? Other than "fanboy knowledge," that is.Quote:
Originally posted by xS
Do you? most people think of sony as evil , and that they killed off 2D by restricting the releases of 2D games. I remember that they also had restricted RPG's at one time.....yet the system had loads of good RPG's.
Yet some of the most amazing niche titles that America has ever seen have come to us thanks to the PSX, and it was also that system that hosted the true breakthrough of Japanese-style RPGs in America.Quote:
Originally posted by Chibi Nappa
Sony is evil as the day is long. I've gone on record several times saying that their hobby-killing PS1 is pure mass market evil incarnated in a little grey box.
I don't want to speak for xS but there definitely was mention in Gamefan in 1995 that Sony wasn't too keen on the domestic release of RPG's for the Playstation. I don't know whether that is true or not but it's definitely a source people get that info from.
Not like it really matters since Suikoden came out domestically a relatively short period of time after the PS came out. If Sony ever was anti-RPG, it was for a very short period of time.
And as somebody who WORKED for GameFan, you can trust me when I tell you to take anything you ever heard newswise from GameFan, ESPECIALLY from that era, with a grain of salt. =^) Especially when the guy who was doing the news was one of the biggest Nintendo fanboys you'll ever meet.Quote:
Originally posted by NeoZeedeater
I don't want to speak for xS but there definitely was mention in Gamefan in 1995 that Sony wasn't too keen on the domestic release of RPG's for the Playstation. I don't know whether that is true or not but it's definitely a source people get that info from.
Your right....there isnt any proof that I get my hands on.....you probably know better as youve been writting for quie a while .:)Quote:
Originally posted by shidoshi
And does ANYONE who believes those things, I dunno, have ANYTHING to back up those two statements? Other than "fanboy knowledge," that is.
Another thing I find ironic about the anti Sony/anti-3d crowd is that they forget that of all three machines- Saturn, PS, and N64, only the PS had a 2d handdrawn game at launch.
Actually I think the psx is the best system of all time.But theres all this hate on these boards , so I just wondering about it.......
:lol: That's what made Gamefan such an excellent read.Quote:
Originally posted by shidoshi
And as somebody who WORKED for GameFan, you can trust me when I tell you to take anything you ever heard newswise from GameFan, ESPECIALLY from that era, with a grain of salt. =^) Especially when the guy who was doing the news was one of the biggest Nintendo fanboys you'll ever meet.
I could care less that Sony emphasized 3D. After all, what, exactly, was the last non-handheld 2D game Sega made? I honestly can't think of one since the Saturn.Quote:
Originally posted by shidoshi
And does ANYONE who believes those things, I dunno, have ANYTHING to back up those two statements? Other than "fanboy knowledge," that is.
On the other hand, is it cool that Sony threatened to reduce PS2 shipments to retailers taking Xbox and Gamecube preorders? Is it cool that they refused to ship systems to smaller retailers who wouldn't guarantee a certain percentage of software sold? Do you really like the way they flat-out lied about the PS2's polygon performance?
In the end, this has no effect on the games, and other companies have been just as guilty (hello, Nintendo!) of such practices, but it doesn't make Sony a loveable and cuddly bunch of guys.
Sony isn't evil. I am though...
Want to know why they bash the PSX?Quote:
Originally posted by xS
Actually I think the psx is the best system of all time.But theres all this hate on these boards , so I just wondering about it.......
Because people think it is "cool" and "hard core" to bash what is popular.
And another thing, this whole "Sony killed 2D" argument is ridiculous.
You can continue to delude yourself with the notion that game companies are really "artists", and that they really care about what the end user thinks about their products. But sooner or later you are going to have to realize that these people are business men, not artists.
Sony did not single handedly kill off the 2D genre, individual companies did, after they saw that their latest 2D platformers sold abysmally, whereas their latest 3D adventure games sold through the roof.
Game companies create products that are economically viable, and 3D games have been proven to be a reliable source of income.
Also, sure 2D games have been a great source of entertainment in our lives, but some of you guys need to move on.
I grow so weary of the constant cries of "Boo hoo, PSX did not support my needs, *sniff*".
If you want to play 2D games that badly, go buy yourself a Genesis.
The only thing I find Sony guilty of is not maintaining my interest. PlayStation is my second favorite system (behind Genesis, obviously), but the PlayStation 2 has had a rather bland showing. Oh well. The absence of 2D is the fault of developers, as said. Sony might have discouraged it, but that isn't stopping developers from putting it on a new system or doing it anyways. I'd like to see flashy new 2D, but "blame" is worthless, especially on Sony. Sony doesn't control gaming, they're just a receptacle for the general mood of the moment.
Anyone who's missed out on the PlayStation, or most of it, I feel sorry for you. You missed out on a lot, and not just flavor of the week games.
Wise man. A Turbo Grafx 16 wouldn't hurt either, but definitely Genesis.Quote:
Originally posted by Regus
If you want to play 2D games that badly, go buy yourself a Genesis.
The PlayStation has more 2D games than the Saturn and N64 combined, some of you just don't look hard enough.
AND N64!? WOW!Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny
The PlayStation has more 2D games than the Saturn and N64 combined, some of you just don't look hard enough.
Kidding.
Well you know. ;)
Or a Neo Geo. Or a Wonder Swan Color. Or a Gamepark 32. Or a Gameboy frickin' Advance (with afterburner mod, of course). I guess nobody noticed its getting all new Altered Beast, Shinobi and Shining Force games? 2D gaming's not even half dead. As long as there are those of us who support it, Capcom, and Eolith/whatever SNK is now will be there, never mind the whole handheld scene.Quote:
Originally posted by Regus
If you want to play 2D games that badly, go buy yourself a Genesis.
Don't forget Tomba! I haven't played it but I heard it was good. And although it came out on Saturn first, Silhouette Mirage was also on the PSX.Quote:
Gunners Heaven, Hermie Hopperhead, Panzer Bandit, Castlevania: SotN, Castlevania Chronicles, The Adventures of Little Ralph, Klonoa, Valkyrie Profile, several shooters and RPGs I can go on for awhile longer naming, but I need not go into great detail. A good number of 2D games on the PSX are ones Sony published themselves.
I just knew some one was going to chime in with that exact reply.Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
Or a Neo Geo. Or a Wonder Swan Color. Or a Gamepark 32. Or a Gameboy frickin' Advance (with afterburner mod, of course). I guess nobody noticed its getting all new Altered Beast, Shinobi and Shining Force games? 2D gaming's not even half dead. As long as there are those of us who support it, Capcom, and Eolith/whatever SNK is now will be there, never mind the whole handheld scene.
Ugh.
Agreed.Quote:
Anyone who's missed out on the PlayStation, or most of it, I feel sorry for you. You missed out on a lot, and not just flavor of the week games.
Tell that to UndeadKing... I've been trying to convince this guy exactly what you're saying in a debate over at the Mega Man X7 thread.Quote:
Originally posted by Regus
Also, sure 2D games have been a great source of entertainment in our lives, but some of you guys need to move on.
Quote:
You can continue to delude yourself with the notion that game companies are really "artists", and that they really care about what the end user thinks about their products. But sooner or later you are going to have to realize that these people are business men, not artists.
"Businessmen" restrict the artists vision for the sake of their profitable standard.(if the artist works for them. And they do in my example.) Understanding this is one thing, but supporting it is another.
why do you say this? it had as much value as your words. you might as well have said "if you want 2D games so bad, go buy some 2D games." but the redundancy would be apparent in that case.Quote:
Ugh.
It's not that, it's the fact that he had to jump in with a list of systems, all upset that I did not mention his favorite system, as if my not mentioning it some how devalues it's worth.Quote:
why do you say this? it had as much value as your words. you might as well have said "if you want 2D games so bad, go buy some 2D games." but the redundancy would be apparent in that case.
Or I may just be over analyzing it.
-Edited for clarity, and hypocritical comments.-
I think you did over-analyze. the systems he mentioned
are the ones that are currently getting common runs of 2D
games. Neo Geo + the handhelds. I don't think it had anything
to do with a favorite system. On the other hand, he may
be the resident Gamepark 32 lover, and I didn't realize. x_X
Yer overanalyzing. I just meant to point out that there were living systems providing new 2D games, since most fans of 2D gaming have gone through the best the Genesis has to offer.Quote:
Originally posted by Regus
It's not that, it's the fact that he had to jump in with a list of systems, all upset that I did not mention his favorite system, as if my not mentioning it some how devalues it's worth.
Or I may just be over analyzing it.
And unfortunately, I've never laid eyes on an honest-to-God Gamepark.
Edited.Quote:
Originally posted by StriderKyo
since most fans of 2D gaming [think they] have gone through the best the Genesis has to offer.
Now I can't remember anytime Sony deprived me of anything good... maybe Arc the Lad, but Working Designs fixed that ^_^ on the other hand deprived me of a USA Saturn version of Grandia, Shining Force III Scenario's 2 & 3 and Shenmue II less then a month before it was supposed to be released :( Super Nintendo which would of been my favorite system ever if Nintendo brought more of the great games that we never saw over to the USA like Fire Emblem III - V, Seiken Densetsu III, Star Ocean, Der Langrisser, Tactic Ogre, Final Fantasy V, Romacing Saga 3, Creation of Heaven & Earth (going to be called "Creation" in the USA before it was axed), Tales of Phantasia, Front Mission, Dragon Warrior V & VI, Front Mission and F-Zero 2 just some of the great title that we were deprived of :( Sure Sony isn't the greatest company, they have done some things that I could care less about too, but they are far from evil.Quote:
evil as described in the dictionary:
\E"vil\ ([=e]"v'l) n. 1. Anything which impairs the happiness of a being or deprives a being of any good; anything which causes suffering of any kind to sentient beings; injury; mischief; harm; -- opposed to good.
I find Playstation to be my favorite system ever, with games like Suikoden I & II, Final Fantasy series, Final Fantasy Tactics, Xenogears, Valkyrie Profile, Castlevania SofN, Tales of Destiny i & II, Star Ocean 2nd Story, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, Brave Fencer Musashi, Vagrant Story, Growlanser, Langrisser, Silent Hill, Tail Concerto, Grandia, Wild Arms, Arc thew Lad Collection, Thousand Arms, Guilty Gear, The Misadventures of Tron Bonne, Megaman games, Strider 2, Klonoa, Front Mission 3, Threads of Fate, Einhander, Dragon Warrior VII, Breath of Fire III & IV, , and great classics like the Lunar series and Final Fantasy IV - VI, Chrono Trigger, Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre, and I could go on too :)
Everyone has thier own opinion and if you feel Sony is evil then that is your own opinion, some of us are quite happy with our Playstations and from what I saw at E3 2002 will continue to do so ^_^