finally some satisfaction

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Originally Posted by frostwolf ex

well, i have never been a one to turn down a good bloodlust:D seriously though, this man did a lot more damage than people give him credit for, there are probably hundreds of his employees who are financially destitute, good people who worked hard and looked foreward to the fruits of their labor. they arent getting that money back, they might get part of a settlement thats going to have many lawyers hands in the pot, they may not get anything, either way, their lives are ruined, just the same as if some thug came up in an alley to them and beat them up for their wallett. and i feel like being in a minimum security prison is too good for a man who did this, he is 100 times the criminal that the worst crime-hardened gangbanger you can think of is, and society needs to treat him as such. but you are right, this is a life sentance for him, and hopefully it will be as much for ken lay, he needs to rot for his crimes as well.

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He's worse than someone who's killed a lot of people, physically? I don't think so. It's bad, and nobody is excusing his actions, but atleast the people he frauded are alive to complain about it. They may not be rich or well-off, but they're alive. I don't agree with the severity of your sentence for his crime.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Well theyre talking about putting him in Yazoo City, MS, which is a low-security prison. I dont think they determine the security level of the prison based on how evil or bad they are, but on what crimes they committed - violent offenders go to higher security prisons. Ebbers is a menace to society, but hes not gonna escape and kill people.

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That's exactly my point. And none of these places are cake walks. People think they are because maximum sounds a lot more ruthless than minimum. They're both bad, but he doesn't need to be held in a maximum security prison. It's a waste of money. If he escaped he wouldn't be able to recommit his fraud crime. Whereas a murderer or rapist that escaped would probably murder and rape if they reoffended.

you soften it by saying that they are not rich or well off, many are broke,stolen from, their entire retirement stolen by a man who was already rich, have you seen what can happen when a elderly person has their homes taken from them for bankruptcy? these people have had their pensions ripped from them, what other source of income are you suggesting for a 70 year old? public housing and foodstamps, maybe a gig at macdonalds for minimum wage, if they are still ambulatory. in johnstown we have had a number of cases like this, not to the degree that this man has done, but to a smaller degree, and the results are that dire. i propose that a person who has caused that kind of hardship for that many people is a criminal deserving full punishement. check it out some time, do some research on the state of the elderly when they are forced to file for bankruptcy, this man caused that on a large scale, and im not particularly forgiving about that. hell diff, we, the working people now have been stolen from by this guy becasue he shrunk the economy by at least 5100 jobs, and probably more ,5100 is the number i got from a class action lawsuit against him, there are many more. why? because a man that alreay had millions, more than enough to live comfortably for the rest of his life, decided he wanted billions, he stole from every one of us, and he deserves at least the punishment we give a car thief.

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is a criminal deserving full punishement

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He's going to jail for 25 years. Seriously, what the fuck more is "full punishment"? Maximum security prisons are designed for violent offenders - what good will it do to put a non-violent offender in, except waste taxpayer money and make one less bed for a violent offender?

That's beside the point. I'm not going to argue with you on what you find to be more ruthless and bad, because there's no point in doing so. What I'm saying is that from a practicality you shouldn't put somebody in a maximum security prison for a crime like he committed. It's not justified. You put someone who is a serious threat to the community there, and by serious threat I mean murderers, rapists, etc.

If he got out he wouldn't be able to rip billions or millions or even tens of thousands off of family pensions and whatever ever again. There's no reason for him to be there. He got what he had coming to him, and given the history of people who commit fraud not getting what's coming to them, I'd say count your blessings.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

I think putting him with murderers, rapists, violent offenders, is actually cruel and unusual punishment. Its pure and simple bloodlust and there's no need for it. This type of bloodlust is what leads to barbarism like 12 year olds being sentenced to death and shit, its wrong.

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Well yeah, it's definitely better he rot and have to spend the rest of his life with no freedom. To take away his quality of life just as he took away quality of life for some many others is much better punishment.

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Legal analysts say the chances of a successful appeal are slim.

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Whoooo!

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

He's going to jail for 25 years. Seriously, what the fuck more is "full punishment"? Maximum security prisons are designed for violent offenders - what good will it do to put a non-violent offender in, except waste taxpayer money and make one less bed for a violent offender?

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He got "full punishment". What frostwolf wants is not justice, according to your law.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

He got "full punishment". What frostwolf wants is not justice, according to your law.

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Yes, he wants eye-for-an-eye Hammurabi-code style bullshit. Like I said, putting him in with murderers, rapists, thugs, is cruel and unusual punishment and it does nobody any good. He's getting what is coming to him, his life is over and his fortunes gone. I cant think of anything more poetically and karmically just.

well, thats yoru take then, i am close to the issue, as i said, i see the result of this kind of greed on a daily basis, and while the victims arent dead, they are close to it, usually saddled with debt, they have lost their homes, and are scraping to get by from paycheck to paycheck, just because a person who already had mroe than enough means to live comfortable for the rest of their lives decided they wanted to live more comfortably, that leads to a degree of bloodlust in your eyes, than so be it. but i dont see justice in this man going to a relatively comfortable prison, compared to what most non well-off felons will see for doing far less harm to far fewer people, for doing massive damage to thousands of individuals.


i dont quite see it on the same level as sentancing a 12 year old for murder, because its clear from what we know about cognitive development that they cannot be fully culpable for their actions. does that really equate to soemone who was fully aware of his actions and the massive repurcussions they would have on thousands of honest people? the difference is guilt, one is clearly capable of understanding the results of their actions, the other is not, and therein lies the crucial difference.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Yes, he wants eye-for-an-eye Hammurabi-code style bullshit.

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well, one eye for 5000 eyes, but ok. besides you already said this is a death penalty for him, what is harsher than your own estimation of that?

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Yes, he wants eye-for-an-eye Hammurabi-code style bullshit. Like I said, putting him in with murderers, rapists, thugs, is cruel and unusual punishment and it does nobody any good. He's getting what is coming to him, his life is over and his fortunes gone. I cant think of anything more poetically and karmically just.

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My thoughts exactly. Death is too quick and would not be the punishment he needs which is: being ripped out of his rich life and having all his freedom and money taken away. If only the jurors on all the other cases were as smart. I just wanna say that I reeeaally like this jury who convicted him.

A lot.

Maximum security prison is for prisoners requiring maximum security to keep them in line.

Minimum security prisons are for prisoners requiring minimum security to keep them in line.

That's all I've got to add to this discussion, other than I hope this guy rots, and that this judgement is the first in a long string of beatdowns administered to the people who commit this type of crime.

James