Read:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050805/...inority_gaming
Discuss.
Printable View
Read:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050805/...inority_gaming
Discuss.
It needs more programmers who don't suck. I don't give a fuck what color they are. Affirmative action, quotas, and the like are counterproductive and stupid. Hire the best person, period.
That wasn't the point.
Did you even read the article?
Then the problem is that obviously blacks aren't pursuing careers in videogame programming. Until they do, the homies are stuck playing gangbangin' and basketball games. Too fucking bad.Quote:
Roughly 80 percent of video game programmers are white, according to preliminary results of an International Game Developers Association survey. About four percent of designers are Hispanic, and less than three percent are black.
Um, no.Quote:
"If you've got kids who can sit in front of a game for eight hours, then they have the cognitive thought process to learn how to build the game," Saulter said.
If I do a study that says 80% of all professional athletes are black, can I get paid for it?Quote:
Roughly 80 percent of video game programmers are white, according to preliminary results of an International Game Developers Association survey. About four percent of designers are Hispanic, and less than three percent are black.
Quote:
"If you've got kids who can sit in front of a game for eight hours, then they have the cognitive thought process to learn how to build the game," Saulter said.
Oh god that's halarious.
He must have watched that commerical on G4.Quote:
"If you've got kids who can sit in front of a game for eight hours, then they have the cognitive thought process to learn how to build the game," Saulter said.
I didn't read the article but I'm sure it had something to do with blacks stealing equipment and "hooking their friends up" with bootlegs.
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Criminy.
Yes. The article is horse shit. I guess this is what comes when a niche goes mainstream. It gets an ass-backwards social "conscience" from people who want to feel important blabbering nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
The programmer is almost an irrelevent point, Its the marketing guy in a suit who decides what games are made and released.
What needs to happen is a release or re-release of a budget spec system where game development costs won't send a developer into bankruptcy after a year.
Is it? I mean look at mods, a lot of them revolve around the same bullshit that mainstream companies sell. The only difference is it wasn't the guy in the suit who decided what would be in the game.
The article does seem to infer some degree of racism in the industry- they just don't come out and say it. It's like how women's organizations claim that Engineering schools are sexist because so few women go into the field.
I kinda see where they're coming from, people have a hard time thinking of characters for me to cosplay as, and it always goes back to the same character: Barret. But on a lighter note, I hate cosplaying, so I guess that all works out.
But why use GTA:SA to prove their point, it's not like they have black main characters in every one.
A variety of skin colors on a development team isn't somehow going to create a better product..
it's weird that in this day and age, a lot of people still can't look past skin color.
*edit*
alright, I read the article. :D
If blacks don't like their stereotypes in games, then of course they should get up and get into the industry and change it.
But it's not like the industry *needs* some huge influx of a variety of races.. Of course stereotypes offend, but no one really has the right not to be offended.
Well, the world does need more minorities in high-paying, white-collar jobs.
Programming is a fairly high-paying, white-collar job.
As long as youre not programming for EA, I guess.
Its easy to avoid looking past skin color when you're a successful white person with a college education. If you don't think there's a class divide in this country primarily split along racial lines you're either nuts or ignorant.Quote:
a lot of people still can't look past skin color.
When we say minorities, do we mean Strong, beautiful, independent women?
We need to give every black child in America an Amiga. That'll learn 'em. Worked for the Finnish.
No, you would file that under "fantasy."Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief~Silver
Good point, there is a class divide in this country largely split along racial lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
But would you say the opportunity for minorities to improve their lives doesn't exist? If so, what more should we do, short of a redistribution of wealth?
No one is forcing anyone to become drug addicts, murderers, rapists, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
People are still responsible for their own actions and choices- that is the secret behind success and failure.
Zerodash, did anyone help you get through life? Like, say, your parents? Did you have any teachers that were inspiring and helped you? Did you go to a school that had a music program and other niceties? Did you have the opportunity to do community service if you wanted to go to a really top school? Virtually everyone who ends up being successful can point to people in their past who helped them reach their potential.
If Im a smart black kid in the ghetto, chances are one of my parents is gone or in jail. My school is a slum and the teachers cant do their job properly. Which means that my SAT scores probably wont be as good as the successful white people, which means I cant get into the top schools. And even if I did, my parent couldnt afford to send me there, anyway. There were 800 black students at UCLA, out of 32,000 undergrads. Are you going to try to tell me there's only 800 black students in the entire state of California smart enough to go to UCLA?
Look at all the statistics... SAT scores are lower in poor neighborhoods, test scores arent as good, college admission rates are lower, etc.
The opportunities arent there for the low-class minorities. They're just not. When I was at school I did all sorts of volunteer service and it was sad how, if someone like me starts off at square one, theyre at like square negative ten. Like I said, these are things that are easy to ignore if youre a well-off white kid from the suburbs but that doesnt mean they dont exist. You undoubtedly got help that you dont even realize, shit a lot of people dont even have.
Meanwhile, walk into a Burger King, McDonalds, etc. nowadays and tell me what type of people you see. I live in the straight up suburbs and all I see are blacks and Mexicans. Nevermind what you see in CA. Then walk into a typical corporate office park and see what type of people you see... its a fucking joke, but not a funny one.
I would say the opposite, definitely. I went to a high school in a predominantly white (and well-to-do) neighborhood, and in comparison to the schools I visited that were overwhelmingly minority, our place and most other HSes like us were total dives. Minority schools get shitloads more funding and access to many more scholarships than non-minorities do, and employers are given more incentives to hire them; the opportunities are very much being put in front of them, they just have to work to grab it.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk_
Why? What is the benefit to the world? I would only agree if the implication is that white people of lesser qualifications are being hired.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
It's more a mental thing on the behalf of people in minorties now. In this day and age, educated people with high paying jobs have no problem working along just as well educated members of minorities. Businessmen, doctors, programmers, non of them care about race. All they care about is money. Green is the only color that matters to well educated people.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk_
I'll take the opposite argument. Intelligence is at least somewhat genetic. If you're a dumbass, you're going to have a shit job and live in a bad neighborhood. Thus, your genetically dumbass kids will grow up there as well. It's a chicken and egg discussion, but the world is not this evil place that is out to get minorities. They need to stop looking for excuses and pull themselves up.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
You cant see what is beneficial to having more people getting good educations and working good high paying jobs is? Are you that stupid/racist/Republican?Quote:
Why? What is the benefit to the world? I would only agree if the implication is that white people of lesser qualifications are being hired.
And whats with the second sentence? Are you saying that minorities are automatically less qualified?
So every black person living in the ghetto is automatically dumb? And every white person living in the burbs working an office job is intelligent? You cant be fucking serious. Every office Ive been to in my life has a lot of dumb people.Quote:
I'll take the opposite argument. Intelligence is at least somewhat genetic. If you're a dumbass, you're going to have a shit job and live in a bad neighborhood. Thus, your genetically dumbass kids will grow up there as well. It's a chicken and egg discussion, but the world is not this evil place that is out to get minorities. They need to stop looking for excuses and pull themselves up.
Unless Im very very smart (like 95th percentile smart) Im not going to go far in this world without a good education. A good education is an equalizer... it turns moderately smart people into successful people. It turns very smart people into very successful people.
Its not about excuses, its about the fact that something they need is not there.
IBTNQuote:
Originally Posted by IronPlant
Who cares. The guy who wrote this article is an idiot.
MOST black kids areent dorks who get off from controlling the world from their computer.
There outside playing sports, getting strong, and getting the laidies.
Nice non-answer. What are the benefits for minorities. "More people" doesn't involve racial lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
No, I am saying that the most qualified person should always be hired. If that person is white 99% of the time, tough shit. If that person is black 99% of the time, then great.Quote:
And whats with the second sentence? Are you saying that minorities are automatically less qualified?
Quote:
Nice non-answer. What are the benefits for minorities. "More people" doesn't involve racial lines.
Why are they more qualified? Is it because theyre naturally smarter or gifted, or because they went to better schools, took more SAT prep courses, got their parents to pay more of their college tuition, went to better colleges, and had more aunts and uncles in positions to hook them up with jobs?Quote:
If that person is white 99% of the time, tough shit. If that person is black 99% of the time, then great.
You're completely missing the boat here. I want these minorities to have the same opportunities as whites. Same quality schools, same drug-free neighborhoods, etc. A lot needs to be cleaned up, and a lot of work needs to be done. All too often people like you or Zerodash just scoff and say, "they just need to work harder, NOW LETS TOAST TO OUR SUCCESS". Im not in favor of handouts, Im saying that these people dont have the opportunities you, a fancy Purdue alumnus, has. I know youre a snotty asswipe who spits on people below you but you still cant be so ignorant as to not see this.
I think you guys have taken each other's statements out of context.
I think what Yoshi was implying that is if we start giving jobs out to minorities because they're minorities, you'll end up with "majorities" in the same position that those minorities were in. Thus you have someone who still is in the ghetto failing at life because the resources are lacking, the only difference is that person is white. So it doesn't benefit the world in any real way, it just makes it so the colors are different.
... I hate viewing people as a different race, a minority, a majority, in the cases of genetics. I wish I could say "You all are being stupid, if a person isn't getting a job it's because he's not qualified" but we all know there are still many companies that high people based on a person's race.
Now you could theorize that "A black person from the ghetto who makes a lot of money may go back to the area he came from and try to improve it" which I guess would in a way improve the world. But it's all theory, from what I think is a logical standpoint is that "There are limited jobs in this world, if someone who winds up in the ghetto if they don't get a job, somewhere down the line someone is going to end up in that ghetto, regardless of color".
Diffx: He's right in the sense that the most qualified person for a job should be taken. That is the person who can do the job most efficiently.
Unfortunately people use what school, area, and heritage as a way to determine or get an idea of how efficiently they can do the job, which I think is your point.
I never say "every". There are exceptions to everything, and I agree about dumb office people. The average person in the 'burbs is smarter than the average person in the ghetto though and there are tons of statistics to support that.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
I don't care. Companies should be hiring the most qualified. This country was founded on people making better lives for themselves, not government programs or socialistic employers. Maybe if the stupid crack whores in the ghetto weren't incented to have more bastard children by welfare programs, there would be enough education money to go around.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
you will never get this. Schools are paid for by property tax (or at least in my state). The kids who need better schools the most are the ones who have parents who pay in the least property tax.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
You realize that Purdue is a state school, right? It happens to be one of the better ones, especially in science and engineering, but it is still a state school. My tuition and room and board was something like $7,000 a year, none of which my parents paid after my freshman year. It's not like I'm some shit head who went to Notre Dame and got a shit education for $35,000 a year on daddy's dime.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Then we're done discussing this. I'm talking about things like equal access to education and other things that would level the playfield. You don't give a shit about that, it just makes me sad to think that you're hardly alone in this.Quote:
I don't care.
I believe that a free and *quality* education is a critical part of this country, too.Quote:
This country was founded on people making better lives for themselves, not government programs or socialistic employers.
As I said, many times their schools get a lot more funding than non-minorities. The drug-free neighborhood point is on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
My best friend from HS was black and came from a poor, single mother who was usually working, with whom he lived in the rented the basement of someone else's house in a poor part of town. He graduated with a 3.2 GPA, and went on to and recently graduated from a very expensive private art school almost entirely on scholarships, a good handful of which were minority-based. All it takes is a little personal responsibility, the opportunity is certainly there.Quote:
A lot needs to be cleaned up, and a lot of work needs to be done. All too often people like you or Zerodash just scoff and say, "they just need to work harder, NOW LETS TOAST TO OUR SUCCESS". Im not in favor of handouts, Im saying that these people dont have the opportunities you, a fancy Purdue alumnus, has.
Personal responsibility is at the root of 99% of this world's problems, no matter what color you are. The other 1% are caused by EA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon McShig
Diffx, people are going to be like this no matter what happens. There are many people in the ghettos that can come out, and strive to succeed and do it. The same is with people better off, they could have the same mentality even if it's not needed. Along with that both places have people who can achieve things, but aren't quite as gifted as the people listed above. The difference between the ones in the ghetto and burbs is the burbs have more help.
So what can we do, to help give the people in the ghettos, or anywhere suffering like this? Just give them money and hope they spend it right? I can see where your points are, even if I'm shitty at wording what I'm reading. And I understand what you're saying, but what I want to know is what do you think we should do about it?
This never happens. They move to the big money neighborhoods and never look back. Worse yet, many have no sympathy for people of their minority living in poverity. Those types of people end up being bitter because of years of taking shit for working hard instead of going out to play basketball and listen to rap with the guys. They had to work really hard to get where the are, and they are pissed at the people they grew up with for how lonely they made he/she feel while striving for something better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief~Silver
Diff is right in part, minorities need better schools. But I am right in part too, there is a thought process out there right now where it isn't cool to do the things needed to be a doctor or game programmer.
Yoshi on the other hand is full of crap. White americans and black americans are equally stupid. They play the same games, watch the same tv, and listen to the same music. They destroy their minds in the same ways.
It's been proven, over and over again, that amount of funding is irrelevant to the quality of the school. Washington DC spends more per student than any place in the country and its a shithole. It takes more than money.Quote:
As I said, many times their schools get a lot more funding than non-minorities.
You're in Mississippi. Of course everyone there is stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by IronPlant
This thread makes me want to see a reality TV show where they take a student struggling from an education in a poor school district (Not some troubled douche bag, someone who doesn't act out and who wants to try for a better life) and switch him with someone in a school "better off" and see what happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief~Silver
They'd get eaten alive. I know, from experience. I was top of my class at an incredibly poor school district. Worked my ass off. Move to a school that is like top in the state. All of the sudden I'm way behind, and I work my ass off, but I was never able to effortlessly get the outstanding grades of kids who have grown up in the district. Not to mention things like having real lunches instead of state provided ones and having quality equipment in extracurricular activies. Its a real cultural shock.
Well then, suggestions?Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
I'd be more interested to see one where they took the student body of a school in a minority sector, and switched places with the students of a school in a primarily white one, keeping the same teachers in each place. I bet you anything the outcome would be about the same as they are in their original schools, and that the teachers and facilities have no bearing, it's the attitudes of the kids that dictate how well they do.Quote:
This thread makes me want to see a reality TV show where they take a student struggling from an education in a poor school district (Not some troubled douche bag, someone who doesn't act out and who wants to try for a better life) and switch him with someone in a school "better off" and see what happens.
IBTNQuote:
Originally Posted by Bacon McShig
desire and passion are the key
Accountability and better teachers. Schwarzenegger tried to approve a plan for merit pay for teachers, I think he got eaten alive. Sad, since its a good start.Quote:
Well then, suggestions?
No way. Good teachers make such a huge difference. There were subjects I hated, HATED until I got a good teacher in the subject. They forced me to work, but I liked to work, because they showed me why the work was so good. Im sure if you ask any reasonably successful person if they had any influential teachers they will name some.Quote:
I bet you anything the outcome would be about the same as they are in their original schools, and that the teachers and facilities have no bearing, it's the attitudes of the kids that decides how well they do.
Like I said, good education is an equalizer. It can turn a bright but unmotivated student into a great student and a very successful person, especially if youre a bright kid in a bad neighborhood. People all too often think that people in bad neighborhoods with bad schools just need to work hard, like the only people worth a damn in those places are the ones that turn out to be Russell Simmons or P. Diddy. Nevermind that most people in good schools are of average intelligence and maybe slight motivation that just got a good education and went to a good college and got a good job and thats that. Those same people have a much greater chance of getting eaten alive in the ghetto because they dont have that education.
you're delusionalQuote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
none of that shit matters if children don't have a good perspective about learning. If a kid doesn't want to learn, he won't. You can throw all the money you want at education and it doesn’t matter one bit if the only things the kids can think about is going home so they can play GTA, smoke a blunt and banging some bitches.
Both sides of this debate have good points. My views lie more with Diffx, but yes, personal responsibillity will get you ahead. The problem is that in a lot of cases, these kids don't see the way out. They are stuck in a dark cave. The government throws some flashlights down to them, but the batteries barely work. Some are lucky enough to find their way out, but not nearly enough.
Yes, it's not the government's responsibility to hold everyone's hand in this country. But if you honestly don't want to help those that are less fortunate than yourself, then I don't see how you can live with yourself.
I'm black and the product of the ghetto. I didn't have the same opportunities as some of my contemporaries at college. But I turned out alright. Not making a ton of money yet, but that's mostly because of the field I chose to pursue (music). But I see many people struggling everyday. And not all are unintelligent, welfare-abusing, five-kids-having, lazy niggers like Yoshi seems to believe 99% of us are.
There should be a study done that takes two kids, one from the 'burbs and one from the projects, and gives them equal opportunities throughout their entire school carreers. Not just switching them after a certain point. I mean from pre-school on through the end of college. Then we can see where they are after. Maybe even switch their opportunities; giving the ghetto kid much more and the 'burb kid much less. I'd love to see what happens.
Back on-topic, this isn't so much to equalize the workforce, but to at least get some varied stories out there into the field. This same thing goes for movies. For the most part, white writers and directors make movies for/about white people and their own experiences. Which in and of itself isn't a bad thing.
But this isn't about that.
It's about getting another perspective out there. And since we see that whites create stories for whites mainly, it would make sense that blacks would make stories for blacks, and on down the line of minorities.
Look at Japan. With the exception of games that are Americanized, all of their games have japanese leads. Not to be unexpected, right? And that's another thing. The americanized japanese games that are released are in some cases worse on minorities, but I guess that can be expected as well.
Sure you can say whatever you want about hiring only the best employee, but that's not the main issue here at all. It's just a plain fact that you relate more to those that look more like you. That includes TV, movies, and at this point, video games. I know I did growing up.
No one is in trouble. No one is being called a racist. Having blacks being gangstas and such wouldn't even be such a big thing if there was another perspective being portrayed out there, just to counteract it. Which there really isn't.
Is there anything wrong with wanting to see more diversity in the games that are being released?
Fuck off. You don't know me, my history, or anything else about me. Stop being a victim and take responsibility for your own life.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
LOL. I grew up in a great, clean suburban/rural area. I went to a great public school system and got into college no problem. After 2 years I transferred to one of the best schools in the country. My parents helped me a lot the entire time, I wouldnt be anywhere without them. They instilled in me a great work ethic and basically ordered me to go to university. I had some great teachers who helped me a lot and inspired me to learn more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerodash
I got so much help my entire life, but I also realize that a lot of people dont get that help. I did volunteer service in school in east LA and saw that all the time. I have a real desire to help people as much as I can, irrespective of how successful I am (and yea, I owe a huge amount of success to my family). Im not talking about my own life, its been good and will be good.
Im the one being real here, not you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief~Silver
They'd get eaten alive. I know, from experience. I was top of my class at an incredibly poor school district. Worked my ass off. Move to a school that is like top in the state. All of the sudden I'm way behind, and I work my ass off, but I was never able to effortlessly get the outstanding grades of kids who have grown up in the district. Not to mention things like having real lunches instead of state provided ones and having quality equipment in extracurricular activies. Its a real cultural shock.
Do a lot of black people feel this way? If so, that would explain why so many "black" movies make a point to show how black they are ever other minute. They think they have to do a black version of what the "white" people are doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofdonCD
thanks for proving my point. You would have never taken advantage of the things you had in life if your parents and the people around you didn't make you think it was importent to do so. They helped you get a good outlook on education.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
diff didn't say he did. He just assumed one of those things happened to you.
From your response it looks like his right.
Calling out to any mod who will put this argument where it belongs.Sound Off
And what I'm saying is that these teachers actually do exist at the minority schools. They just can't do much good because the vast majority of their classes are rude, disruptive kids who have no intention of learning. Give them better odds, a classroom with some chance of getting through and actually teaching, and that same teacher would probably do just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
It's all on the students to act moderately civilized and want success, and it's all on the parents to instill that in them. Yeah, as you said, their parental situations usually suck... but I fail to see how anything can really be done on the school's end to really work at stopping that cycle. There has to be an entire societal shift.
He would though, if you answered the questions!Quote:
Fuck off. You don't know me, my history, or anything else about me.
Part of a teacher's job should be cultivating that in children. I'm not saying I expect them to be successful with everyone, but good teachers do make a difference in how much desire someone has to learn, and how passionate they are about it.Quote:
desire and passion are the key
By your world-view, you don't deserve anything good that happened to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
I had NO help from anyone- payed my own way through school, studied without anyone telling me to, and picked myself up after multiple setbacks (including homelessness for 2 months). Its all about drive and conviction...and responsibility.
No, I deserve it all, but I also have an obligation to give back what I can because people gave back and helped me. I would apologize to you for not having the same sort of "Me against the World" viewpoint that you seem to have, but Im not going to because I think thats stupid, ridiculous, and self-defeating.Quote:
By your world-view, you don't deserve anything good that happened to you.
I hate movies like this. Soul Plane, I am looking in your direction. I usually don't like movies that are all "Whateva, you go girl", you can have intellegent funny movies that point out the differences between white and black people. I thought Undercover Brother actually did a good job with this type of comedy.Quote:
Originally Posted by IronPlant
See there's the thing, we keep talking like these kids can do it without any help, and many of them can. But there's another aspect that many of these fucked up parents in these ghettos give and that's not being unable to help, it's the fact they hinder them and try to force them to fail. You're all getting into a narrow view that nothing can stop someone from improving and making their way through life, but a set of unsupportive parents who do whatever they can to make their child feel miserable and worthless is one thing many of these children go through.
I know I'm getting back to the idea that parents are at fault and it's true. You live your life demorilzed by your parents from day 1 and it's going to be one fucking hard life. I think it all comes down to the Environment you live in, the people around you, and your own self image and conviction. I cannot see it being that "These kids just don't care enough".
Yeah you have movies like Undercover Brother and Barbershop that are funny, but intelligent.Quote:
Originally Posted by animegirl
Then next month you have soul Plane and Taxi to set black movies a decade back.
From the link:
"Roughly 80 percent of video game programmers are white"
Which corresponds nicely with:
July 1, 2004 Census White 235,990,895 Percentage of US Population : 80.4%
Wow, I never knew Jimmy Fallon was black.Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar
I think me and Bacon McShig have said more than a few times that peoples out look is the deciding factor, AND family and freinds play a big part in that out look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief~Silver
Wow. I had one hell of a time getting any scholarships at all (in fact I ended up getting none) with my 3.85 highschool GPA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon McShig
Then again, I'm white.
Yea, really - white people are the victims in today's society. So are rich people, with the damn progressive tax structure.Quote:
Originally Posted by hugmuffin
Rich white people have it so bad.
No it's just this whole racial shit is messed up in all directions. Affirmative action is BS. My roommate in college was hispanic. He never went to any of his classes, just partied. He had a full ride of scholarships and was enrolled in a minority program that let him register for classes before everyone else (which in a huge state school is a huge boon). It pissed me off that he got all that just because he happened to be hispanic. I worked my ass off, paid my own way through school, and walked out with very good grades. Didn't get a lick of help from anyone, just because I happen to be white.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
I didn't know Queen Latifah was whiteQuote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
So every movie that has even a single black person is a "black movie"? Was Hitch a black movie?Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar
Taxi was a heavily black centric movie. Did you even see it?
No, of course I didnt. If you saw it, I wouldnt exactly advertise that fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar
They should have made it heavily funny centric instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar
I think this bears repeating.Quote:
Originally Posted by MVS
I really don't see the relevance of GTA SA to the whole discussion, either, since it was made by scots who's only knowledge of black americans comes from pop culture.
It's funny how this whole argument gets reduced to rich whitey versus the poor black man, and totally ignores the fact that there are tens of millions of dirt-poor white trash that have only a slightly better chance at making it in life then poor minorities do.
The fact that the american upper class is primarily white has more to do with the fact that the first rich americans were white and knew how to hold on to there wealth than any inherent racism in modern society.
If wealth weren't passed on from one generation to the next, or if everyone started out with the same resources, then most of the disparity in wealth would be gone.
I really don't see how that could ever happen though, so you might as well get used to it.
IBTNQuote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Unless it's a woman who plans to have kids.
She, by definition, is not the best person.Quote:
Originally Posted by MVS
I wonder what your wife thinks about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
She's not here to ask, but I suspect she'd agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisco Bold
You're on the right track, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not bitter and people didn't really make me feel alone, so much as I often felt the need to pull away to keep on track. I had it better than some, in that I had nice clothes to wear and lots of video games to play, but as far as a work ethic, such things were only mentioned in passing. In fact, I learned a lot more about succeeding by looking at all the failures I knew. Drug dealing didn't work, as evidenced by the people I knew who got locked up. Drinking and doing drugs didn't work due to the addicts I saw blow opportunities...Quote:
Originally Posted by IronPlant
I honestly think that I, emotionally speaking, raised myself. I realized I wasn't going to find someone else going where I wanted to go, so I had better make my own way morally and academically. The thing that lots of people don't realize is that at the top colleges/universities, they have need-based financial aid. If you're able to get in then you really don't have too much to worry about in terms of affording college aside from accruing debt. They'll give you grants and loans to make up the difference if you don't wanna work part-time or your parents come up short on their end of things (which comes down to state tuition levels) like mine always did. Oddly, enough I am in the game industry as a programmer, but I don't really get to draw on my time in the ghetto too much... it's not exactly something I think about often, except as motivating me not to end up there again and enjoy doing things that I couldn't afford to do before. Maybe once the industry matures a little more there'll be a place for less mainstream storytelling (like indy films), but if you're just ripping off hollywood style plots for your games, stereotypes will do just fine. Most game characters are shallow, anyway...
Most games have such thin narratives that you could insert any sort of plot you feel like, as long as the gameplay and visuals hold up.
Hmmm well I'm black and I have an interest in the industry but I just don't know if I want to do that for the rest of my life.
Now I've lived in both worlds "ghetto" and "burbs" , they both have their ups and downs but I do agree and have seen it to be easy for kids growing up in the burbs to get where they need to be. I have a cousin who is a A honor student but only got a scholarship to go to one school fully paid for only one semester. Take the same grades, slap a white face on, put them in a burb area and see what extra cash flow they get thrown to them.
Another thing, what music, television shows, cartoons, anime or any extra intrest's a person has does not determine what they will want and ultimately do in in life. Theres a buddy of mine who's black( I'm black as well). We share a few common intrest's like rap music and break dancing. But when we start talking about movies he likes "The Barber shop" alot. I think it's ok but I will say a movie I like "Gladiator" and he will find it boring. He like "Soul Plan". I think the movie is Trash. But this kid is better than math and as of right now programing than I am. My point is a persons likes and dislikes don't determine what a person will ultimatly persue or do in life.
Unless it's a hot blonde chick that bags a rich boyfriend, none?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
I got zero handouts to get to where I am today. No complaints. And I could've gotten financial help for school (in fact, I planned on it before I got hired at my current job) that anyone living in California has access to.
Success is based on determination. You really can do just about anything you want in this country if you put your mind to it and don't mind working your ass off and enduring less-than-stellar times in hopes of a payoff.
And yeah, thanks MVS for those statistics that should end the original debate.
Thanks for your contribution to the thread. I don't recall anyone saying otherwise. But TNL thanks you for the time that you put into your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar
The way this is phrased makes it sound like you think the two are mutually exclusive.
At any rate, back on topic. I wish all luck to the coming generation of young, black game designers. The day I see a non-blonde, non-whitish, elf-type, black lead character with black supporting characters in a fantasy-adventure Zelda-type game I will do the Happy Hamster Dance. Even if the game is amaturish and sucks, I'll still buy it as a matter of principle.
I'd buy it too, as long as he isn't a sterotype.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master of 7s
Da Legend of Lazelda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronPlant
Well you can't read. Go back and read older posts.
Oh I can read, I can read very well. I AM AWESOME AT THE READING. I am the reading king. I rock the reading, I am the read master. I am Lord Read, Readmus Maximus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...a/abf948a0.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by IronPlant
*punches MarkRyan in the head*
The survey totally dismisses the Asian community. I guess companies like Capcom, Namco, Nintendo and Sega are comprised of mostly white programmers. :rolleyes:Quote:
Roughly 80 percent of video game programmers are white, according to preliminary results of an International Game Developement Association survey. About four percent of designers are hispanic, and less than three percent are black.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronPlant
I don't believe this for one second, unless you're talking about business professionals. How often have you heard about sports stars like Emmit Smith or Eddie George giving back to thier communities?
A local television news broadcast in Dallas, did a report on unfair opportunities for students. They did a peice on a girl that went to a school and had great test scores. She still didn't qualify for the University of Texas, because there were too many people qualified to attend the college. Meanwhile a girl that went to a lesser school and had lower grades qualfied, because she was a minority.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
I dated an Hispanic girl about 8 years ago. Her sister had solid grades and was offered a full scholarship at Harvard, because she was a minority.
Harvard does need-based financial aid...Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
People who must have a positive public opinion of them to continue to make money, do not count. And besides, they don't have anything to be bitter about. You can be one of the guys and become a star athleate. Playing BBall is cool, hip, and "black." No one ever got treated like an outcast for being an athleate.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
Those that did make it out, usually said that they did so because of places like the Boys and Girls club. They don't do this shit to impress you or me. They do so, because they were once a part of these broken down communities.Quote:
Originally Posted by IronPlant
Ok, whatever, if you want to believe that, cool. I'm not going to get into a hypothetical argument with you over the motives of the few thousand different proathletes this country has. If you want to believe that everyone from the streets who plays for the big leagues does so because he has roses coming out his ass, fine, whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by gamevet
Still, athletes have nothing to do with this argument. That is a dream job, only a few people get to be star athletes. It is about as silly to use that as a counter argument as me using astronauts or “rock god.”s It's the exception, not the rule.