We Told You So (re: Madden 2006)

The first major review of Madden 2006 is in, and for the first time I can remember, it didn't get a 9.X. IGN's reviewer went as far as to say, "...it was only a matter of time before the streak had to end. Madden NFL 06 could very well be remembered as the game that didn't improve enough over its counterpart -- and for the first time in years, became a little less fun to play." Everything EA does hurts this industry, and this is just one obvious example. I look forward to the NFL's return to games in 2009 or so.

To be fair, this game is the equivalent of Madden 2001 for the PlayStation, when the PS2 version was only months away. Nobody cared about the PS1 game by that point.

Let's wait for the Xbox 360 game before we come to these conclusions.

The real test will be when it hits retail. I'm sure this one will do normal Madden numbers, but 07 could be the turning point if EA lets it keep sliding.

Sliding to what? There are people who buy consoles just for sports games, and EA has made sure Madden is the only game in town. Without an alternative, people will pretty much have no choice.

Madden can have 9 or 10 years of being the only football game in town and ESPN 2K5 will still be the better game.

Less sales. Some people may not buy it anymore and go with an unlicensed football game. Unlikely, sure, but not out of the question.

I saw this last night, and I am not surprised in the least. At least eventually there will be the 2k games legends of football game with an improved 2k5 engine. That will be the only football game I'm purchasing.

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Originally Posted by Rumpy

Less sales. Some people may not buy it anymore and go with an unlicensed football game. Unlikely, sure, but not out of the question.

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No, thats not going to happen. People dont want to play as the Atlanta Lumberjacks or whatever. They want to play as the Falcons and Vick.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

To be fair, this game is the equivalent of Madden 2001 for the PlayStation, when the PS2 version was only months away. Nobody cared about the PS1 game by that point.

Let's wait for the Xbox 360 game before we come to these conclusions.

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Do you really think the 360 version will be anything more than an HD version of the Xbox game? Of course GamePro loved the shit out of Madden :bang:

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Originally Posted by Rico

Madden can have 9 or 10 years of being the only football game in town and ESPN 2K5 will still be the better game.

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Yep, and Madden will still sell billions of copies every year and break records.

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Do you really think the 360 version will be anything more than an HD version of the Xbox game? Of course GamePro loved the shit out of Madden

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Madden 2001 on the PS2 was a shitload better than Madden 2001 for PSX.

I just played MLB 2006 for the PS2. What a fantastic baseball game. I was absolutely astonished to hear 989 had crafted it. I hope EA doesn't buy up the baseball licence.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I just played MLB 2006 for the PS2. What a fantastic baseball game. I was absolutely astonished to hear 989 had crafted it. I hope EA doesn't buy up the baseball licence.

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Err, actually Take Two bought up the MLB license for all third party development. First party can still make MLB games, but EA can't.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Madden 2001 on the PS2 was a shitload better than Madden 2001 for PSX.

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It was also quite a shift in hardware performance. I don't think the jump will be as large as it was from 32-bit to 128. Besides, the Playstation was almost 6 years old, by the time the PS2 arrived.

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Originally Posted by BrAnDX105

I saw this last night, and I am not surprised in the least. At least eventually there will be the 2k games legends of football game with an improved 2k5 engine. That will be the only football game I'm purchasing.

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Has there been any more news on this 2k Legends of Football? I understand that they would wait until at least a January Release to hit the "post-Madden-market" kinda like EA has with it's Street series, but no word and no screens make me conserned.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Madden 2001 on the PS2 was a shitload better than Madden 2001 for PSX.

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Yes, but they weren't the beast that they are today. They had plenty of competition in terms of other NFL games coming out, and even had some competition for 128 bit games with the 2k series. Now they have no competition so I don't see Xbox 360 doing much more. I generally get one game per generation because I see no point in constantly updating, and I haven't had Madden as that one game since Genesis. On PSX it was GameDay '98, DC I had 2k1, and then I got 2k4 for Xbox (upgraded to 2k5 thanks to a sweet pricetag). In other words, I don't have faith in them.

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Originally Posted by Videodrone

Has there been any more news on this 2k Legends of Football? I understand that they would wait until at least a January Release to hit the "post-Madden-market" kinda like EA has with it's Street series, but no word and no screens make me conserned.

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Nope, the only thing I've read about it was in last months EGM, so hopefully there will be news forthcoming. I really want this game, that is if it actually exists.

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Originally Posted by Videodrone

Has there been any more news on this 2k Legends of Football? I understand that they would wait until at least a January Release to hit the "post-Madden-market" kinda like EA has with it's Street series, but no word and no screens make me conserned.

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From what I read, they were seeking out contracts to see if would even be financially sound. They were gonna go from there. In other words, if they could get a bunch of legends and get the price right, they'd release a game full of legends, if they got a few guys, they would have the legends be the coaches, if the ycould only get a couple names, it'd be like back in the days of "Nolan Ryan baseball." Also, from what I read, it didn't sound like they'd have anything this year (meaning 2005, something might come down the road, but I'm thinking they're taking the time off).

For what it's worth, I'd get this game, since the 2k engine is great, and I like to support not-EA hehe. I also see myself getting Blitz this year too, but I'd rather get it for 360.

This is the last Madden before the new generation of consoles so Tiburon took the opportunity to try out a bunch of new things that just didn't work out. Sup QB cone.

I'm not picking it up this year but I came to that decision months ago. NCAA is just too good. I expect next years Madden to be up to snuff.

PS: 2K has always been trash. It's gone now so let it go.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I just played MLB 2006 for the PS2. What a fantastic baseball game. I was absolutely astonished to hear 989 had crafted it. I hope EA doesn't buy up the baseball licence.

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you know I played this the other day on a PS2 kiosk and I have to say I've been really tempted to buy it now allthough it's also given me a strong urge to buy just any baseball game (haven't bought one since like the 16 bit generation) may just have to go out and buy one of last years baseball games cheap

What? It only got an 8.8? Seriously, how low do your standards have to be to play trash like that? Obviously Tiburon didn't even try on this version, because the 360 will have less consoles in total worldwide by January than the PS2 version alone sold last year in the US. That's just sound business, anybody can see that's the case.

I expect it to get killed in sales, as NFL fans everywhere turn to FIFA.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

PS: 2K has always been trash. It's gone now so let it go.

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Hardly. I'm gladly holding on to my copy of ESPN NFL 2K5, as I'm far less fond of the inferior Madden.

Hopefully the aforementioned Visual Concepts game pans out, and includes an edit feature. It would be a welcome sight for the XBox 360.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

PS: 2K has always been trash. It's gone now so let it go.

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Did you have a retard sandwich or something?

I'm waiting on the PSP and 360 versions. The developers of the PSP version said they left out the QB vision, added some tweaks of their own, and are putting in 10 mini-games exclusive to the PSP. Also it has AdHoc and infrastructure play. Looks promising to me. :D

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Did you have a retard sandwich or something?

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Slip is a cosplay, anime and Spice Girls expert. How can you question him? His word on football is law.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

This is the last Madden before the new generation of consoles so Tiburon took the opportunity to try out a bunch of new things that just didn't work out. Sup QB cone.

I'm not picking it up this year but I came to that decision months ago. NCAA is just too good. I expect next years Madden to be up to snuff.

PS: 2K has always been trash. It's gone now so let it go.

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Actually, I find that people dumpster-dive for Madden much more frequently than for 2k5.

Well it had to end sometime...I'm going to wait for more reviews...

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

PS: 2K has always been trash. It's gone now so let it go.

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Aside from presentation, 2K has never been better than the Madden games. There's a reason why most Madden players have rejected the 2K series like a baboon heart transplant after a "2K evangelist" tries to get them to convert.

I never understood why the majority on this board bash Madden in clear favor of the 2K games. I almost equate it to the posters who bash the depth of certain fighting games on this board, when it's obvious they've never reached a high level of play in any of these games to warrant making such criticisms about gameplay depth, broken engines, etc.

Once again half of TNL over reacts to nothing. YAY!
Has Madden ever been that much of an improvement every year? No. So what the fucks the difference this year?






wow, I just defended Madden in a way. yikes.

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Aside from presentation, 2K has never been better than the Madden games. There's a reason why most Madden players have rejected the 2K series like a baboon heart transplant after a "2K evangelist" tries to get them to convert.

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Hey, it looks like I'm not the only sane one around here XD!!

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Originally Posted by Gooch

Aside from presentation, 2K has never been better than the Madden games. There's a reason why most Madden players have rejected the 2K series like a baboon heart transplant after a "2K evangelist" tries to get them to convert.

I never understood why the majority on this board bash Madden in clear favor of the 2K games. I almost equate it to the posters who bash the depth of certain fighting games on this board, when it's obvious they've never reached a high level of play in any of these games to warrant making such criticisms about gameplay depth, broken engines, etc.

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Yeah!! Don't let the fact that every wesbsite and magazine gave it equal or higher reviews cloud anyone's judgement. They're just puppets of the unstoppable Sega hype machine.

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Originally Posted by Gooch

Aside from presentation, 2K has never been better than the Madden games. There's a reason why most Madden players have rejected the 2K series like a baboon heart transplant after a "2K evangelist" tries to get them to convert.

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Madden fans don't like real football. That's the problem. When their stupid ass over-powered offenses are taken away and they are forced to play defense, they don't like it. Madden is about as realistic as Blitz.

Dude, the website/magazine review card is a useless arguement and has nothing to do with how I formulate my opinion on a game. And I never said the 2K football games were bad, just not as good as the Madden games. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Madden fans don't like real football. That's the problem. When their stupid ass over-powered offenses are taken away and they are forced to play defense, they don't like it. Madden is about as realistic as Blitz.

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Of course Madden fans don't like real football. That's why real football fans haven't played video game football since Tecmo Super Bowl and until the first 2K game was released.

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Originally Posted by Gooch

Dude, the website/magazine review card is a useless arguement and has nothing to do with how I formulate my opinion on a game. And I never said the 2K football games were bad, just not as good as the Madden games. Ever.

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Madden hasn't been the best football game since the Genesis days. Even GameDay owned it until 989 got sloppy.

Gameday '98 was the height of the series and it still wasn't as good as Madden. I will say that Gameday '98 was probably the closest competition Madden has faced up until 2K5.

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Originally Posted by Gooch

Of course Madden fans don't like real football. That's why real football fans haven't played video game football since Tecmo Super Bowl and until the first 2K game was released.

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....

What?

So Madden isn't as much like real football as 2k5 but it's a better football game? :wtf:

I'll probably buy Madden simply because I have to live with it for six more years and might as well get used to it.

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Originally Posted by Six

....

What?

So Madden isn't as much like real football as 2k5 but it's a better football game? :wtf:

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Yeah. I appreciate him proving our point.

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Originally Posted by EvilMog007

Once again half of TNL over reacts to nothing. YAY!
Has Madden ever been that much of an improvement every year? No. So what the fucks the difference this year?

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The difference is that consumer no longer have a choice, so we bitch louder than usual. :D

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Originally Posted by Six

....

What?

So Madden isn't as much like real football as 2k5 but it's a better football game? :wtf:

I'll probably buy Madden simply because I have to live with it for six more years and might as well get used to it.

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I was being facetious.

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Originally Posted by Gooch

Dude, the website/magazine review card is a useless arguement and has nothing to do with how I formulate my opinion on a game. And I never said the 2K football games were bad, just not as good as the Madden games. Ever.

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The Madden games were never as good as the 2K games. Ever.

Stalemate!

LOL, good show.

I wll say that the NCAA games > Madden, though.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

PS: 2K has always been trash. It's gone now so let it go.

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I'm not a huge football fan, and yet even I can see that the 2k series is a far superior series. As someone mentioned, GameDay '98 was better than Madden at the time. I mentioned it in a previous post that THAT was the football game I had for PS1. Once Madden left Genesis, it just wasn't king anymore, end of story.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

2K has always been trash. It's gone now so let it go.

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Quoted again for emphasis. You kids can debate it all you want, but considering that it's never coming back and no one cares, you're just wasting you're time.

No more tears.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Everything EA does hurts this industry, and this is just one obvious example.

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except for those bitchin LOTR action titles, and General Chaos, The Immortal, etc

but yeah; trolling like a douche works for you...so go for it. at least you got yourself a niche. *thumbs up*

mutant league football was the pinnacle of football games now all of you shut up

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Originally Posted by cka

mutant league football was the pinnacle of football games now all of you shut up

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IBTN

I'm unaware of anyone making a more fun game than SSX Snowboarding wise, I think Cool boarders was alright (If that's what it was called).

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Originally Posted by cka

mutant league football was the pinnacle of football games now all of you shut up

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IAWTP.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

Quoted again for emphasis. You kids can debate it all you want, but considering that it's never coming back and no one cares, you're just wasting you're time.

No more tears.

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If "no one cared" then we wouldn't argue against you. I have quite a few friends that would join in on the arguement too.

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Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

I'm unaware of anyone making a more fun game than SSX Snowboarding wise, I think Cool boarders was alright (If that's what it was called).

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I personally find Amped 2 to be the best snowboarding game ever made.

Really? I've never heard of it but I'll certainly take your word and look into it.

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Originally Posted by TobalRox

If "no one cared" then we wouldn't argue against you. I have quite a few friends that would join in on the arguement too.

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No one cares. Losers such as yourself should stop this retarded holy crusade about a game based off a sport that none of you are fans of to begin with and just face reality.

Tomorrow I'm going to start a campaign to bring back Models INC, because god damnit, it was better than Melrose Place and you're fucking retarded if you don't believe me. That'll do a lot of good!

If you want to play the same game for the rest of your life in the face of yearly updates of a superior produdct, thats fine. Just stop trying to drag the rest of us down to your level, caveman.

Before I try Amped 2 I need either Sl1p or DiffX to tell me if I can.

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

No one cares. Losers such as yourself should stop this retarded holy crusade about a game based off a sport that none of you are fans of to begin with and just face reality.

Tomorrow I'm going to start a campaign to bring back Models INC, because god damnit, it was better than Melrose Place and you're fucking retarded if you don't believe me. That'll do a lot of good!

If you want to play the same game for the rest of your life in the face of yearly updates of a superior produdct, thats fine. Just stop trying to drag the rest of us down to your level, caveman.

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My friends ARE into football, I'm just not. I play the game with them though because it's a great party game. THEY feel 2k is better, and hated when madden got the exclusive NFL license. I couldn't give two shits about updated rosters, and saying madden is superior and keeps adding stuff is a joke. Esp. since they rip off most of their "new" features from the 2k series. Look at "The Mansion" in Madden this year.

You know what's really annoying about 2K fans? Not that they prefer the 2k series, that I can understand. It's how they always try to make Madden out to be total trash, unplayable and broken when anyone who's actually played it can tell you that it's a damn fine football game. They always have to start busting out the hyperbole, how Madden is "so fucking crap," and 2k, "is just flat out a million times better," when anyone remotely objective can tell they're nothing but a raving fanboy. The best part is that at least half the guys crying about how great 2k is and how terrible Madden is have never voluntarily watched a football game in their life, but that doesn't stop them from telling you just how much more realistic the 2k series it. (edit: TobalRox is a prime example here. He's even using the classic, "BUT MY FRIENDS KNOW FOOTBALL AND THEY SAY 2K IS BETTER." I love that shit.)

Just once I want to see a 2k nerd open up about how the real reason he hates Madden is because it's the favorite game of all the kids who used to beat him up in high school.

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Originally Posted by Gooch

Aside from presentation, 2K has never been better than the Madden games. There's a reason why most Madden players have rejected the 2K series like a baboon heart transplant after a "2K evangelist" tries to get them to convert.

I never understood why the majority on this board bash Madden in clear favor of the 2K games. I almost equate it to the posters who bash the depth of certain fighting games on this board, when it's obvious they've never reached a high level of play in any of these games to warrant making such criticisms about gameplay depth, broken engines, etc.

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DUDE SEGA MAKES 2K AND SEGA IS AWESOME.

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Don't let the fact that every wesbsite and magazine gave it equal or higher reviews cloud anyone's judgement.

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I think we already had this argument, and Madden got slightly better reviews than the 2K series overall when they were going head to head.

And why, oh why do people talk mad shit about terrible game reviews are (especially at a place like IGN) then turn around and use their reviews as gospel when they actually support their opinions? Damn you're a tool, Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Madden fans don't like real football. That's the problem. When their stupid ass over-powered offenses are taken away and they are forced to play defense, they don't like it. Madden is about as realistic as Blitz.

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It's funny, but when professional football players are interviewed about their favorite games, they always seem to mention Madden, not the 2K series. I guess those guys just don't understand football on the level you do.

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Originally Posted by Thief~Silver

Before I try Amped 2 I need either Sl1p or DiffX to tell me if I can.

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Will Joust Williams suffice if either of those guys aren't around?

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

It's funny, but when professional football players are interviewed about their favorite games, they always seem to mention Madden, not the 2K series. I guess those guys just don't understand football on the level you do.

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It's called marketing prowess. Unless the guys is an avid gamer, he may not know there are even options. It's no different than people who buy a PS2 over an Xbox. Is it a better system, or is that what they have heard more about?

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

It's called marketing prowess. Unless the guys is an avid gamer, he may not know there are even options. It's no different than people who buy a PS2 over an Xbox. Is it a better system, or is that what they have heard more about?

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If I listen to your posts, PS2 is flat out a better system and there's nothing worth playing on Xbox. What the fuck are you, Bizzaro Yoshi or some shit?

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Originally Posted by Shin Johnpv

you know I played this the other day on a PS2 kiosk and I have to say I've been really tempted to buy it now allthough it's also given me a strong urge to buy just any baseball game (haven't bought one since like the 16 bit generation) may just have to go out and buy one of last years baseball games cheap

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Same here, which is probably why I'm having so much fun with it. The players actually get dirty and remain so if they slide in to a base or dive for a catch. The first two games I played I would dive for a ball whether the situation deemed it or not just to see if they'd have dirt on them the next time they were up in the lineup. The pitching in the game is SPOT ON. They've perfected the pitching game in their series. I can throw crap all I want to try to strike people out, but if they guess the pitch it's possible to hit it out of the park. If I throw a low fastball there's a better chance they'll pop up and get caught out.

The one thing I had trouble getting the hang of was base running and stealing. I'd command a player to run to second base and he'd go all the way to third. It was frustrating because I had no idea why he wouldn't stop. Turns out it was just me not precisely pressing up on the c-pad. The joint of my thumb was striking the left button so he ran all the way to third.

I also love running home and charging the backcatcher. Such a great game.

Amped 2 is a cool game but its more like Tony Hawk + snow than SSX3. Both games can coexist.

Dont bother with 1080 Avalanche though.

Thanks Diff, I will go rent and or purchase this game!

And I guess Joust would work, but Diff/Yoshi/Sl1p all override him.

Sorry Joust.

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

If I listen to your posts, PS2 is flat out a better system and there's nothing worth playing on Xbox. What the fuck are you, Bizzaro Yoshi or some shit?

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It was a hypothetical comparison. My point is that the best seller or most publicized is not always best.

PS: Amped 2 is really awesome. I was lucky enough to find it on uber-clearance at a Target one day for $10 bucks and picked it up after putting it off for so long. It has a high learning curve but once you get past it, you're gold. It may not be total realism, but it's nowhere near SSX's league of craziness and the fact that they award you more for just making your tricks look nice as opposed to throwing in 20 grabs before you hit the ground makes it a great contrast.

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

You know what's really annoying about 2K fans? Not that they prefer the 2k series, that I can understand. It's how they always try to make Madden out to be total trash, unplayable and broken when anyone who's actually played it can tell you that it's a damn fine football game. They always have to start busting out the hyperbole, how Madden is "so fucking crap," and 2k, "is just flat out a million times better," when anyone remotely objective can tell they're nothing but a raving fanboy. The best part is that at least half the guys crying about how great 2k is and how terrible Madden is have never voluntarily watched a football game in their life, but that doesn't stop them from telling you just how much more realistic the 2k series it. (edit: TobalRox is a prime example here. He's even using the classic, "BUT MY FRIENDS KNOW FOOTBALL AND THEY SAY 2K IS BETTER." I love that shit.)

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I never said that Madden was crap, I just said that there has always been better options available. My brother has madden because he thought it was the only football game out there, so when I go to visit him, I'll play him at madden, and we have fun. But after playing it, I didn't have "as much" fun as when I play the 2k series. And I bring up friends because I could see why my opinion wouldn't matter because I may not notice "little things" a football fan would, but I was proving that it's not just me as a non-fan, but fans of the game that still feel the 2k series is better. I was just preparing for a counterattack ahead of time. I watch football once in a while, mostly with my brother, but I full admit to not being a huge fan, so I used friends as a defense since the yknow more aboutit than me. Madden is just fine, but it's not the best, and since the genesis days, never has been the best, therefore I feel it getting the NFL license is a cheap trick. I also have never used reviews to back me up because of the fact that I am one of those people that complain about reviews. Again, this is why I bring up my friends, because those are people who's word I trust more than a random reviewer. That is all I will say on this, because enough is enough.

EDIT: This is a games forum, so my liking a football game as a non-NFL fan is just as valid as a non-NFL fan, because I am a VIDEO GAME fan. It's the same reason so many people play wrestling games. If it's fun to play, that's all that matters. So I may not go around fighting in street fighting tournaments, but I know which fighting games I like better.

I think Yoshi has to start liking Madden now:

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Gov. Jeb Bush will be greeted by the EA-Tiburon executive team, including Steven Chiang, co-founder of Tiburon and now vice president and studio general manager. Before an audience comprised of many of the world's best videogame developers, the Governor will give brief remarks and Chiang will give an overview of EA-Tiburon's history, growth and future, before the governor becomes one of the first to play the game.

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They put him in the fucking game.

http://images.ea.com/sports/madden06...h1_640x480.jpg

http://images.ea.com/sports/madden06...h3_640x480.jpg

They have a video up on their site of Jeb vs. Dubya.

http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/5420/bush15vu.jpg


I think I might stick to basketball this year.

jack thompson needs to go after football games because they're needlessly violent

And they have men bending over. I'm sure that alone destroys the moral fabric of America.

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

You know what's really annoying about 2K fans? Not that they prefer the 2k series, that I can understand. It's how they always try to make Madden out to be total trash, unplayable and broken when anyone who's actually played it can tell you that it's a damn fine football game. They always have to start busting out the hyperbole, how Madden is "so fucking crap," and 2k, "is just flat out a million times better," when anyone remotely objective can tell they're nothing but a raving fanboy. The best part is that at least half the guys crying about how great 2k is and how terrible Madden is have never voluntarily watched a football game in their life, but that doesn't stop them from telling you just how much more realistic the 2k series it. (edit: TobalRox is a prime example here. He's even using the classic, "BUT MY FRIENDS KNOW FOOTBALL AND THEY SAY 2K IS BETTER." I love that shit.)

Just once I want to see a 2k nerd open up about how the real reason he hates Madden is because it's the favorite game of all the kids who used to beat him up in high school.

It's funny, but when professional football players are interviewed about their favorite games, they always seem to mention Madden, not the 2K series. I guess those guys just don't understand football on the level you do.

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So basically, people don't like Madden, because they're nerds? :rolleyes:

You are a moron if you actually believe these things. As Yoshi said, the success of Madden in recent years can be directly attributed to savvy marketing and mindshare. It's not a bad game by any means; it just hasn't been the best football game on the market in years. The NFL2KX/ESPN Football games have been far superior to what EA has offered with Madden this entire generation (even early Gameday/Gamebreaker titles were superior in the PS1 days). The biggest difference is that, up until last year, Visual Concepts and the ESPN Football series had always been saddled with the fuckhead Sega execs calling the shots, which directly lead to idiotic decisions like releasing ESPN Football a month after Madden in 2003.

Then last year, Sega struck a publishing agreement with Take Two, who actually employs execs and marketing people that have a clue about what they're doing. Visual Concepts designs ESPN 2K5 to take advantage of the Xbox hardware, and scales the visuals down for the PS2 port. In typical EA fashion, Tiburon designs the game for the aging PS2 and tries to port up. Take Two decides to drop the price of ESPN titles to $20 and bumps up the release date to beat Madden to shelves by a solid month. In addition to better graphics and more realistic gameplay, ESPN 2K5 has an incredible online league system, perfectly integrated Xbox Live play (and PS2 online play), and it looks ten times as good as Madden 2005. ESPN Football 2K5 sells a ton of copies and significantly gains on the Madden series in terms of mindshare and sales.

So of course, EA shits a brick, trying to find ways to stop the ESPN series from gaining more momentum. Their competitor has a better football game, it came out a month earlier, and they're charging less than half of what EA is, giving gamers an incentive to try out an alternative football title for once. Last year, the price of Madden dropped from $50 to $40, then again to $30 in the span of a few months. When's the last time someone forced EA's hand like that?

In the end, EA just ended up throwing a few sacks of cash at the NFLPA for an exclusive license, basically ensuring that they won't have to worry about Visual Concepts outdoing them on a yearly basis anymore. It was a smart move on EA's part, but people who just want to play the best football game available with their favorite teams and players don't have to like it. Admittedly, I like the addition of the passing cone and the fact that the Tiburon crew is still trying to innovate to a degree, but I'm also not surprised that most of the reviews are calling Madden 2006 a disappointment. I still have it preordered and will be picking it up tomorrow though.

To those talking about MLB2006 for PS2, how's it compare to the 2k game?

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Originally Posted by TobalRox

To those talking about MLB2006 for PS2, how's it compare to the 2k game?

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I can't really compare it to much because I haven't played many others. Sorry. A lot of Bestbuys have it up at kiosks. Check it out. Definitely a worthy purchase.

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Originally Posted by Mamoscott

The NFL2KX/ESPN Football games have been far superior to what EA has offered with Madden this entire generation
...
and it looks ten times as good as Madden 2005.

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I think it's in the How to Convert Madden Fans handbook that they hand out to fanboys like you. "Don't just say that 2k is, 'a better game,' or ,'has better graphics.' Be sure to emphasize your point with ridiculous hyperbole like, 'far superior' and 'ten times better.' Remember, rationality and fanboyism don't mix."

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ESPN Football 2K5 sells a ton of copies and significantly gains on the Madden series in terms of mindshare and sales.

So of course, EA shits a brick, trying to find ways to stop the ESPN series from gaining more momentum.

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You know Madden 05 sold better than any previous version? Honestly I think they bought the license soley to piss off videogame forums.

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Originally Posted by Mamoscott

I'm also not surprised that most of the reviews are calling Madden 2006 a disappointment.

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Most are, are they? Gamerankings has the Xbox version at 89.6%, the PS2 at 91.1%, and the Gamecube version at 90%. What a dissapointing piece of shit.

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

I think it's in the How to Convert Madden Fans handbook that they hand out to fanboys like you. "Don't just say that 2k is, 'a better game,' or ,'has better graphics.' Be sure to emphasize your point with ridiculous hyperbole like, 'far superior' and 'ten times better.' Remember, rationality and fanboyism don't mix."

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How's this for hyperbole? Madden's running game is still a joke, and the best way to get yards on the ground is still to rush the ball outside, which is completely unrealistic. In the actual NFL, defenses are too quick from sideline to sideline for that type of rushing attack. That's why bullshit like the option offense only works in college, where the players are smaller and slower. In Madden though, running between the tackles is executed so terribly that you have no choice but to try and rush the ball outside. It's woefully unrealistic, and the ESPN Football series has always been light years ahead of Madden in this regard.

That's not all though. The online play in Madden was completely broken last year (hello audible glitches and AI problems!), the running game was even more worthless in online play than it was in single player mode (almost to the point where no one ever ran the ball), the support for online leagues and general online play was shit, and compared to ESPN 2K5, the game looked like ass.

Switching from Madden to ESPN is like converting a veteran Windows user to OSX. At first they're reluctant, because "it's not like Windows." But if they spend more than a few minutes with the alternative, they begin to see the differences that make it better than the most popular choice.

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You know Madden 05 sold better than any previous version?

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If things were going so great, why did EA feel the need break out the checkbook for the exclusive NFL license? Obviously, selling millions of copies of Madden and having an extra few hundred million dollars in the bank is better than selling millions of copies of Madden and having to spend that cash. Companies don't spend that type of money on whim, so they must have been feeling threatened by something.

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Most are, are they? Gamerankings has the Xbox version at 89.6%, the PS2 at 91.1%, and the Gamecube version at 90%. What a dissapointing piece of shit.

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I never called the game a piece of shit. IGN plainly states that Madden 2006 is not as fun as previous versions. 1up.com's review has a huge paragraph of complaints and issues with the gameplay that could have been copied and pasted from the review of Madden 2005. The problem with the Madden series is that they spend so much time on secondary, off-the-field features like Superstar Mode that they fail to address so many of the on-the-field problems that plagued previous year's versions. That's the main reason the running game is still crap.

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Originally Posted by Mamoscott

If things were going so great, why did EA feel the need break out the checkbook for the exclusive NFL license? Obviously, selling millions of copies of Madden and having an extra few hundred million dollars in the bank is better than selling millions of copies of Madden and having to spend that cash. Companies don't spend that type of money on whim, so they must have been feeling threatened by something.

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I hate to defend EA here, but they weren't the ones to break out the checkbook. The NFL went to them and said we're going exclusive. It wasn't EA.

Now then, having said that, the response you should have made to our friend here wasn't that EA got scared and bought the exclusivity, you should have pointed out that EA got scared after seeing the sales that 2k5 was getting at it's $20 price point and had to drop it's price, THUS causing the great increase in sales that he's pointing to.

Damnit, for the last fucking time. EA only bought the rights because the NFL was whoring them out to the highest bidder. EA got it obviously. Thats the last I want to see someone say it was EA's fault. They had to get it.

lol, error got to it before me :)

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

You know what's really annoying about 2K fans? Not that they prefer the 2k series, that I can understand. It's how they always try to make Madden out to be total trash, unplayable and broken when anyone who's actually played it can tell you that it's a damn fine football game. They always have to start busting out the hyperbole, how Madden is "so fucking crap," and 2k, "is just flat out a million times better," when anyone remotely objective can tell they're nothing but a raving fanboy. The best part is that at least half the guys crying about how great 2k is and how terrible Madden is have never voluntarily watched a football game in their life, but that doesn't stop them from telling you just how much more realistic the 2k series it.

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Doesn't the same apply to the other side?

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Originally Posted by Sl1p

2K has always been trash.

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Why yes, yes it does!

Slip's game of the year was DOA Volleyball. Her opinion doesn't mean anything

I just wonder how this vision cone works in multi-player games.

Seems like you're going to be throwing a lotof interceptions against good players since you have to telegraph every throw.

For the record -- ESPN 2K5 is the best simulation football game ever made.

"The best part is that at least half the guys crying about how great 2k is and how terrible Madden is have never voluntarily watched a football game in their life"
I'm sure I watch more football than anyone here. I think 2K is a more accurate portrayal of NFL rules football than Madden. But I don't think Madden is bad, either. It just isn't quite as accurate.

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

You know Madden 05 sold better than any previous version? Honestly I think they bought the license soley to piss off videogame forums.

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Not trying to debate your statement, but even if Madden did sell more than any other year that's not the only number to look at. On Xbox, NFL 2K5 actually outsold Madden 05.

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Originally Posted by Joust Williams

"The best part is that at least half the guys crying about how great 2k is and how terrible Madden is have never voluntarily watched a football game in their life"
I'm sure I watch more football than anyone here. I think 2K is a more accurate portrayal of NFL rules football than Madden. But I don't think Madden is bad, either. It just isn't quite as accurate.

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Excuse me?

I've been watching NFL games since I was around 11. WHen it comes to sports there's the NFL and then there are those other ones, which I take a casual interest in. I've played videogame based football games dating back to the Atari arcade football game. I've played Madden Football dating back to the first game on the Genesis. Remember when they didn't have an official NFL team license?

Madden this generation has been somewhat disappointing. When the NFL2K titles started appearing on the Dreamcast and then on to the newer consoles, it was a totally different experience. No longer could I get away with 50 yard money plays, when my opposition put up a defense to stop the pass. The running game became an art form and not just running a guy where the line opened up. Reading a defensive formation, actually had meaning now.

NFL2K made each offensive and defensive lineman's position meaningful. No longer were they just drones placed on the field. They reacted to how the quarterback, or running back moved on the field. Defensive backs actually held their positions, until the line of scrimmage was broken. In Madden, a player could scramble around in the pocket, until the defensive back stopped following the reciever, leaving a wide open reciever for the pass.

I've given Madden plenty of chances with purchases of Madden 2001 and 2004. Both titles disappointed me and I regretted wasting my cash in both instances. When the choice between Madden 2005 and NFL2K5 came about, it wasn't much of a struggle to figure out which title I preferred to own, even if they were both the same price.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

No longer could I get away with 50 yard money plays

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The fact that these exist and are acceptable make Madden inferior and online play silly.

If they weren't left in on purpose it must be a massive failure in the AI routines. And that's just unacceptable. Unless you're the only game in town then it's totally understandable. :p

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Same here, which is probably why I'm having so much fun with it. The players actually get dirty and remain so if they slide in to a base or dive for a catch. The first two games I played I would dive for a ball whether the situation deemed it or not just to see if they'd have dirt on them the next time they were up in the lineup. The pitching in the game is SPOT ON. They've perfected the pitching game in their series. I can throw crap all I want to try to strike people out, but if they guess the pitch it's possible to hit it out of the park. If I throw a low fastball there's a better chance they'll pop up and get caught out.

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You've just described what it's like to play MLB2K5. I've had players hit home runs, when I've pitched to a spot they are supposed to be weak at. Yet, because they knew what pitch was coming, they could manage a home run. Player's uniforms would show the dirt on them, after sliding in 2 second base or during a bad weather game. You should give MLB2K5 a rental at least.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

You've just described what it's like to play MLB2K5. I've had players hit home runs, when I've pitched to a spot they are supposed to be weak at. Yet, because they knew what pitch was coming, they could manage a home run. Player's uniforms would show the dirt on them, after sliding in 2 second base or during a bad weather game. You should give MLB2K5 a rental at least.

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I think it works a little different. If you guess which pitch I'm about to toss to you (you get 1 guess before the round begins) it's as though the ball is being pitched to one of your strong zones.

If I pitched to a cold spot on the plate with the fastest ball I can throw you'll probably pop out or hide a grounder right to the short. It's a GREAT balance added to the game that really makes it a dream to play. It also encourages you to mix things up. Most people would be able to guess a change-up following two fastballs. It's almost a game of cat and mouse with the way you stack your pitches.

Multiplayer is where the game really shines. I'm having more fun playing this with friends than any game as of late (including wrestling). It's really, really enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by Mamoscott

How's this for hyperbole? Madden's running game is still a joke, and the best way to get yards on the ground is still to rush the ball outside, which is completely unrealistic. In the actual NFL, defenses are too quick from sideline to sideline for that type of rushing attack. That's why bullshit like the option offense only works in college, where the players are smaller and slower. In Madden though, running between the tackles is executed so terribly that you have no choice but to try and rush the ball outside.

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What the fuck are you talking about? I run between the tackles successfully in Madden all the time.

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It's woefully unrealistic, and the ESPN Football series has always been light years ahead of Madden in this regard.

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Yes, that sim like bastion of reality 2k series has always dusted the arcardey junk Madden in the realistic ruinning game department, despite only adding a realistic momentum model last year. Why I've always said there's nothing more realistic than Jerome Bettis executing perfect 90 degree cuts without experiencing any loss of momentum.

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If things were going so great, why did EA feel the need break out the checkbook for the exclusive NFL license? Obviously, selling millions of copies of Madden and having an extra few hundred million dollars in the bank is better than selling millions of copies of Madden and having to spend that cash. Companies don't spend that type of money on whim, so they must have been feeling threatened by something.

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I think they did it because whiny 2k fans didn't have enough to bitch about on message boards.

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Originally Posted by johnk_

Doesn't the same apply to the other side?

Why yes, yes it does!

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Um, John? Yeah, I hate to be the one to inform you, but it turns out Sl1p's a troll. I know, I know, I felt the same way when I found out.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

On Xbox, NFL 2K5 actually outsold Madden 05.

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I require proof.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

No longer could I get away with 50 yard money plays, when my opposition put up a defense to stop the pass.

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Yeah, I have 2K, 2k1, 2k2, and 2k5. I played 2k1 and 2k2 online, and my main strategy was to throw deep pretty much all the time if I fell behind. Won more than I lost. I can beat my friends in 2k5 doing the same thing. I'm not that good or anything, but seriously, some of the shit you guys are posting is just silly.

Blah blah blah isn't it out now?

Where are the impressions? What about Franchise mode? How customizable is your team? I hope they included it this year - seems all they talk about is OMG QB Vision and OMG SUperSTAR!!!

I'll get it after work tonight most likely. Provided I can find it somewhere.

Gridiron is for fags.

No scrum?

Padding?

Coach tells everybody what to do?

Fags.

GameSpot's review is up. It's even worse than IGN's.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I can't really compare it to much because I haven't played many others. Sorry. A lot of Bestbuys have it up at kiosks. Check it out. Definitely a worthy purchase.

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Well, I already have MLB2k5, and it was only $20... so getting another game isn't really worthwhile to me unless it's REALLY good. Plus, Xbox>PS2.

Unbelievable (from Gamespot review)...

"The online play comes across similarly unmolested. Apart from an egregiously long sign-up process on the PlayStation 2 that forces you to make the best of a no-win situation by making you choose to either pay $2 via credit card or agree to get spammed by ESPN mailings to register your account, the online works just as it did last year."

EA says "I want my two dollars!"

EA wins for its EA Traxx.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

GameSpot's review is up. It's even worse than IGN's.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Getting your facts straight should be a prerequisite for any journalistic job, even if it is writing for an online gaming publication. Apparently, GameSpot, like IGN, has no such standards. A fantastic example is the idiocy contained in their Star Wars Galaxies: Episode III: Rage of the Wookiees preview:
...
Anyone with a clue about popular culture at all knows that without even thinking. I expect this shit from IGN, but I thought GameSpot was better. I guess I was wrong.

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Remember, Gamepost has no standards, but we can implicitly trust their reviews as long as they fall in line with our preconceived notions.

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Originally Posted by PBMax

Unbelievable (from Gamespot review)...

"The online play comes across similarly unmolested. Apart from an egregiously long sign-up process on the PlayStation 2 that forces you to make the best of a no-win situation by making you choose to either pay $2 via credit card or agree to get spammed by ESPN mailings to register your account, the online works just as it did last year."

EA says "I want my two dollars!"

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What the fuck are they trying to pull? It's already been established that only Sega is allowed to charge for online play on console games that don't have persistent worlds, and it's supposed to be a monthly fee that's there's no way to opt out of. This is fucking bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

Yeah, I have 2K, 2k1, 2k2, and 2k5. I played 2k1 and 2k2 online, and my main strategy was to throw deep pretty much all the time if I fell behind. Won more than I lost. I can beat my friends in 2k5 doing the same thing. I'm not that good or anything, but seriously, some of the shit you guys are posting is just silly.

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Okay, so somebody didn't know how to play a prevent defense. In Madden, you could hang in a prevent and this shit would still happen.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Gridiron is for fags.

No scrum?

Padding?

Coach tells everybody what to do?

Fags.

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I would pay money to see the Baltimore Ravens Vs. the Australian Rules Jocko All Stars. There would be fatalities. Ray Lewis would be up on manslaughter charges by halftime.

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Originally Posted by gamevet

Okay, so somebody didn't know how to play a prevent defense. In Madden, you could hang in a prevent and this shit would still happen.

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Um...you ever watch a real NFL game where a team that is ahead by 7-10 points plays prevent D and the opposing offense advances the ball fairly easily and goes downfield for a quick score? The announcers usually say something witty and original like "playing a prevent defense only prevents you from winning?" I'm sure you've heard it before since you've watched so much football since you've been 11 years old. The fact that this same situation still happens in Madden doesn't validate your arguement.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I would pay money to see the Baltimore Ravens Vs. the Australian Rules Jocko All Stars. There would be fatalities. Ray Lewis would be up on manslaughter charges by halftime.

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well, footballers killing people isnt particularly that new, is it?

Especially Ray Lewis..

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Originally Posted by Error

I hate to defend EA here, but they weren't the ones to break out the checkbook. The NFL went to them and said we're going exclusive. It wasn't EA.

Now then, having said that, the response you should have made to our friend here wasn't that EA got scared and bought the exclusivity, you should have pointed out that EA got scared after seeing the sales that 2k5 was getting at it's $20 price point and had to drop it's price, THUS causing the great increase in sales that he's pointing to.

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Also, they then snatched up the rights to college football, ESPN, and Arena football. They obviously wanted to eliminate competition in any way they could.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

No scrum?

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That sounds like something a pirate would scrape off the bottom of his foot after a hard month of bootleggin'.

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

Remember, Gamepost has no standards, but we can implicitly trust their reviews as long as they fall in line with our preconceived notions.

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Yeah I don't get it.

IGN reviews mean something now?

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Originally Posted by Revoltor

Yeah I don't get it.

IGN reviews mean something now?

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Just link to this thread next time Yoshi says anything about IGN's or GameSpot's lack of quality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gooch

Um...you ever watch a real NFL game where a team that is ahead by 7-10 points plays prevent D and the opposing offense advances the ball fairly easily and goes downfield for a quick score? The announcers usually say something witty and original like "playing a prevent defense only prevents you from winning?" I'm sure you've heard it before since you've watched so much football since you've been 11 years old. The fact that this same situation still happens in Madden doesn't validate your arguement.

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A prevent defense will allow for screen plays and short passes underneath the coverage. Usually plays more than 10 yards don't happen and if they do it's because a really fast reviever has found an opening on the upper corners.

Believe me, I've seen many a Cowboys game blown in the 4th quarter last season, because they went into a prevent style defense, only to be slowly picked apart. The offense usually went 3 and out and went back to the prevent again and the same results would happen.

A prevent defense is designed to stop the big yardage plays, but leaves open the running game and 8-10 yard passing plays down the middle. The fact that far too often you can get away with an over the top passing play in Madden when someone is in this style of coverage and often with 2 guys riding his jersey, makes the game far too arcadey and unrealistic.


The NFL2K games focused on a more defensive oriented style of gameplay, while the Madden series has more often focused on an offensive style.

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Originally Posted by StriderKyo

I would pay money to see the Baltimore Ravens Vs. the Australian Rules Jocko All Stars. There would be fatalities. Ray Lewis would be up on manslaughter charges by halftime.

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Well of course, since Australian Rules is about being able to run fast, jump high and kick accurately. Australian Rules players have more in common with basketball players in their size. I was taking more about Rugby.

As for Baltimore Ravens vs the All Blacks (New Zealand Rugby Union side)?

Dead Ravens.