Utah RAVE Raided by SWAT Team

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Originally Posted by Gohron

I was complaining about our tax dollars being used to take care of former drug addicts who are now mentally defecient and/or will be mentally defecient. The government has nothing to do but mismanage funds, I'd much rather them spend it on something stupid rather then support those that are weak and should be left to bury themselves.

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People get sick all the time, you can't discriminate based on the cause. Sorry.

this is worth reading again:

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Originally Posted by Mykozo

This is why you *gasp* legalize drugs. There will always be demand for drugs, as soon as you bust 20 kids, and scare them into not doing drugs, there will be 100 more to take their place as users. I'm no hippy, but I think for a country to be truly free, that a person should be able to put whatever the fuck they want into their body. Thousands and thousands of people die every year from alcohol related illnesses. How many people die a year from ecstasy? Answer, in 2001 76 deaths were reported due to MDMA use. Lots more than that die from Cocaine, but still gets nowhere near alcohol. So what do we do? Create a black market so that kids that sell crack can shoot at each other over 20 dollar drug debts. If people want to kill themselves with excessive drug use, let em. Natural selection, baby. Get rid of the black market. Make these dangerous drugs less taboo. People will figure it out. And if they don't, well, we seem to have no problem with letting people drink themselves to death right?

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Gohron is the main one holding the point that it was ok to beat and tear gass the crowd because they are presumed to be breaking the law; but to anyone who is preaching "they were using illegal drugs..." - So, what?, it'll be ok when the cops beat you and take your computer because of the illegal mp3s and roms that may be on your hard drive?

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Originally Posted by Mykozo

Check out Penn and Teller's episode of their show "Bullshit" about the war on drugs. It's really good.

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Bullshit is the greatest documentary/deconstruction show ever.

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Originally Posted by Mykozo

This is why you *gasp* legalize drugs. There will always be demand for drugs, as soon as you bust 20 kids, and scare them into not doing drugs, there will be 100 more to take their place as users. I'm no hippy, but I think for a country to be truly free, that a person should be able to put whatever the fuck they want into their body. Thousands and thousands of people die every year from alcohol related illnesses. How many people die a year from ecstasy? Answer, in 2001 76 deaths were reported due to MDMA use. Lots more than that die from Cocaine, but still gets nowhere near alcohol. So what do we do? Create a black market so that kids that sell crack can shoot at each other over 20 dollar drug debts. If people want to kill themselves with excessive drug use, let em. Natural selection, baby. Get rid of the black market. Make these dangerous drugs less taboo. People will figure it out. And if they don't, well, we seem to have no problem with letting people drink themselves to death right?

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:tu: I really couldnt have put it better myself.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

You're comparing a concert to a rave. You're comparing almost two completely different things. One is meant for drugs, one is meant for music.

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Out of curiosity , you obviously havent been to either, right?

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Originally Posted by Gohron

I was complaining about our tax dollars being used to take care of former drug addicts who are now mentally defecient and/or will be mentally defecient. The government has nothing to do but mismanage funds, I'd much rather them spend it on something stupid rather then support those that are weak and should be left to bury themselves.

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Oh, and spending on the war on drugs is indeed quite stupid. First off we outlaw drug use so we create a black market. Black market = higher prices. So now drug users, who have destroyed their minds and bodies with these drugs, have to pay exhorbitant prices for said substances. Destroyed mind and body = no job. Hmmmm, whats the easiest way for someone to make money if they can't get a job? OH YEAH. Rob people, burglarize homes and stores, carjack, etc...So now we have funds being diverted into the "war on drugs" on the front end (which is not working one fucking bit), and we lose on the back end by having to deal with all the crime that black market drugs create due to the high price. How often do you hear of homeless drunks robbing people for liquor? Or stealing their families belongings for it? Not often, since liquor is so cheap they can usually bum enough money on the street corner to get it. War on drugs = stupid as hell. It's a great political diversion though isn't it?

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Answer, in 2001 76 deaths were reported due to MDMA use. Lots more than that die from Cocaine, but still gets nowhere near alcohol.

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Wait wait wait, so MDMA, an illegal drug, kills 76 people. Cocaine, an illegal drug, kills a lot more. Alcohol, a legal drug, kills even more than that. So your solution is to make MDMA and cocaine legal, too! Just like alcohol! Wow!

I dont think any studies have been done on the subject, but Im sure alcohol isnt necessarilly more deadly than any of these drugs, its all about quantity consumed. So making it legal and thusly more accessible will just mean more people will die from MDA and cocaine. There's a hole in your argument so big you can fly a 747 through it.

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That's why I agree with Dole to attack the root of the problem, not the weak branches that feed off of that root.

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Seriously, anyone who believes that people who sell the drugs, not buyers, is the problem is an idiot, pure and simple. You may not like Wal-Mart, but who do you have to blame for its success? The buyers. Even g0zen knows this critical fact wrt the illegal immigration discussion - the real problem isnt the people shipping them in but the people who are giving them jobs. Its demand that creates a market, not the mere existence of some arbitrary product. Study some economics.

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And if they don't, well, we seem to have no problem with letting people drink themselves to death right?

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Yes, we do - it costs us so much money in increased health care premiums and medicaid/medicare treatments and shit, its ridiculous. Alcohol and drugs are involved in a majority of domestic/child abuse incidents. And lets not even get into all the fucking drunk driver scum that kill people. Alcoholism is a scourge on our society, I dont think making more intoxicating substances legal will help the problem, just amplify it. You could then reach into your hat and pull out the equivalency argument - "if alcohol is legal so should pot/heroin/etc." - but thats not really valid. We already cant contain alcoholism as a society, letting more out in the wild, legal, that wont help anything.

"this is worth reading again:"

No, it isn't.

This is kind of like the debate over general contractors working on the Death Star that they had in Clerks.

Anyone at the Drug Rave knew the risk they were taking by being there, I don't feel sorry for a single person that got banged around by the SWAT team.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Anyone at the Drug Rave knew the risk they were taking by being there, I don't feel sorry for a single person that got banged around by the SWAT team.

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let me ask again: Will it be ok when you and your family get beat by the police for having illegal (stolen) files on your computer?

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Wait wait wait, so MDMA, an illegal drug, kills 76 people. Cocaine, an illegal drug, kills a lot more. Alcohol, a legal drug, kills even more than that. So your solution is to make MDMA and cocaine legal, too! Wow!

We already cant contain alcoholism as a society, letting more out in the wild, legal, that wont help anything.

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Putting more substance on the streets might be a bad thing, but if people really want to get their hands on the stuff they will. Alcohol and drugs dont kill people, people who cant handle alcohol/drugs,etc. are the ones causing problems. When was the last time you went on a crime-spree after downing some OE? Some people are just fucked up from the beginning and substance just amplifies what problems are already there which I'm sure stem from some other aspect of that person's life.

I wouldnt give some people alcohol or drugs the same way I wouldnt let certain children watch a Freddy Krueger movie. Some people just cant handle it.

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Originally Posted by diffx

Seriously, anyone who believes that people who sell the drugs, not buyers, is the problem is an idiot, pure and simple. You may not like Wal-Mart, but who do you have to blame for its success? The buyers. Even g0zen knows this critical fact wrt the illegal immigration discussion - the real problem isnt the people shipping them in but the people who are giving them jobs. Its demand that creates a market, not the mere existence of some arbitrary product. Study some economics.

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idiot? :rolleyes:... thanks, a lot man....

I'm honestly not 100% sure, I'd agree with legalization because a lot of the public just isnt ready for it at this point.

Until that day comes and in that respect, I think all manners of it's usage should be looked into, not just the users. I know I use a lot of comparisons all of the time but if you are going to kill ants do you just kill them one at a time or go for the pile?
Every cartel or lab you take out is the equivalent of busting hundreds if not thousands of drug users and possibly preventing that many more from starting what could be a bad habit - if you think that way. Not every ' Tom and Dick' has access to chemicals and labs needed to make this stuff. If law enforcement wants to remain serious about their plan to stomp out drugs in all forms this is how they should be doing it.Not pushing around and beating kids in the middle of the desert.