I don't have to link shit. I didn't state it as a fact. I said I didn't know anything about it. There isn't a site for all the crap I don't know about.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Kind of both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
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I don't have to link shit. I didn't state it as a fact. I said I didn't know anything about it. There isn't a site for all the crap I don't know about.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Kind of both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
American labour unions pay for a lot of shit that would be paid for by the gov't in most european countries, so their members demand higher wages to pay their higher union dues.
I honestly think that labour unions did a lot of good and solved a lot of problems a century ago, but in the long run, they are a very dangerous thing.
Instead of demanding better labor laws and social policy's for all citizens, labor unions use their power to force companies to give sweet deals only to their own union members.
In the end, it only serves to segregate the workforce into haves and have-nots, and to give union leaders an unhealthy level of influence over our economies.
I'm not so sure...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Maybe on most boards, but we have some pretty intelligent posters mixed in among the savages.
I agree that unions in the US are no longer protecting the workers from big evil corporations, but if they were to evaporate, that wouldn't solve the problem either. There needs to be restrictions of how much EITHER side can push the other side around. The unions have too much power, but companies shouldn't get ALL the power back. The original intent of unions was to establish a give and take, but as of late the unions are only taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
That is pretty harsh man. You can't really mean that. I'm not saying people with menial labor jobs should be rich, but they aren't pieces of shit. Somebody has to make the cheese sandwiches.Quote:
Unskilled pieces of shit should be paid accordingly.
Cost of living is another huge factor in this whole thing. There are a lot of very smart, skilled people who did amazingly well in school who are seeing their jobs migrate overseas. Desk monkeys like you and I are having their jobs outsourced to countries with intelligent workers like India and the like. Don't be so quick to jump all over people, you could be next on the chopping block.Quote:
If your job goes to Taiwan because you're overpaid for the marshmallow between your ears, maybe you should have stayed awake in school.
Granted, that isn't a union problem, but even skilled jobs are being pushed across the pond.
Yes let's outlaw free association and the right to protest, damn union workers trying to maximize their profits, who do they think they are, CEOs? Jobs are nothing but a form of charity, you should pray to your corporate god every day and thank him for letting you work, because you're not actually providing a service or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Look, if corporations don't want to deal with unions they can outsource to the developing world, which they're doing. If a union doesn't want to compete with the cheaper labour by demanding less then it'll suffer the consequences. Stripping people of their democratic rights because you have a hard on for authority is shortsighted and plain stupid.
Unions and higher quality work do not necessarily go hand in hand.
Ex.: With the exception of one Long Beach plant, according to this source (which is actually a co-op with GM), Toyota does not operate any unionized plants. Toyota also has quite a few other plants in union-rich areas of the US. Yet, among all of the automakers, Toyota consistently scores among the best in quality reports. If Toyota can do it, why can't the Big 3? Is it simply out of tradition?
Also, the Big Three (well, what was the big 3: Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler) are digging themselves in a huge hole with the employee pricing discount. Once the sale ends, the sales will probably drop way below levels last year. Also, according to an article I read a few weeks ago, the biggest surge in sales has been with 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks, as well as SUV's: The vehicles that bring the largest profit margins to these companies.
Unions did have a purpose, at least back in the early 20th century. I'm sure that many of us have read Sinclair's The Jungle, and read accounts on the working conditions of typical plants of the era. In that time, unions were needed to get rid of the long hours and terrible conditions. However, I agree that in almost all cases, the union systemhas run its course, and needs to be abolished in the US.
At the GM plant in Oshawa they have 3 workers to do the job 1 worker could do on his own. It's like one person taking the boxes off of a shelf and putting them on a counter, and then another worker coming up and operating the counter where the boxes are to move them on to a conveyer belt. And the last guy just makes sure there's a sticker on every box as it goes by. You can have one guy perform all of these jobs comfortably. He can put them on the counter, put stickers on them and then operate the counter to put them on the conveyer belt.
GM's union decree's that 3 people must do the job. Not even 2, just 3 (or more) and you get higher car prices for your troubles. American produced vehicles always end up with rattles and engine problems. I prefer foreign cars because they're made sterdier and last a lot longer.
I don't get this line of thinking, free association and the right to protest have run their course?Quote:
However, I agree that in almost all cases, the union systemhas run its course, and needs to be abolished in the US.
Shitty unions will get their dues and I don't mean the monetary kind. If a union gets greedy they'll finally cross that line when it's cheaper for the corporation to lock everyone out and move shop. Meanwhile most unions will continue to ensure workers are getting a fair share of company profits, profits that can only exist with workers. In an age where CEOs are giving themselves huge pay hikes while simultaneously recieving handouts from government and asking their workers to sacrifice, you'd think more people would rally behind the unions. None of you run a Fortune 500 company, why do you hate the idea of unions so much? Did a union kill your family?
I'm thinking it is either A) none of us like the prices of our american made goods going up, B) We are tired of seeing the people we live around lose their jobs becuase the company uprooted and went to Mexico, or C) Some of us have delusions of power and one day hope to rule a company with an Iron Fist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny
ha-ha...you are the stupidest human i have ever seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Unionized labor has made a mockery of american cars. I can't think of one american car that I like right now that doesn't have an equivalent from Europe or Asia that I'd buy. I know a guy that was a Teamster, and made 18 fucking $/hr to load boxes into a truck for UPS. He also, at will, didn't show up for work if he felt like it, and would joke "ha, I'm a Teamster, it's almost impossible to be fired once you are part of the union". WTF? I'm sorry, and I don't think that the Teamster's represent any auto manufacturers, but if a box loader is making more than an entry level degree holder, something is not right there. And if organized labor is not held to the same work standards as non, then what kind of attitude and quality control do you get from these shitheads? If you job is not on the line, why should they care if they don't put that car together well? I am not against organized labor altogether, but I do think that a middle ground has to be made on wages and benefit packages, if any of the US' auto manufacturers are to survive. And people that work organized labor should be just as prone to being fired for not being able to perform their job as the non-union worker. Until that happens, anything manufactured under union labor is going to suffer from manufacturing costs and quality control.