According to Famitsu, Sega is apparently set to show Virtua Fighter 5, Afterburner, House of the Dead 4, Power Smash 3 (Virtua Tennis), and a game called Sci-Fi, all running on Lindbergh (new arcade board) at the AM show tomorrow.
Sci-Fi is a new "vs action shooting game" produced by Yu Suzuki.
Go Sega.
Discuss.
If Street Fighter IV wasn't also being shown, Sega would have a chance to have an interesting lineup. Only complete failure on Capcom's part makes Sega's lineup anything other than background noise.
Virtua Fighter > Street Fighter.
Yeah, I went there.
Yeah, you went there. You also got shit on the bottom of your shoe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
From being inside of an anus, I gather? Clever.
I don't know about your foot, but your head certainly was when you thought Virtua Fighter even deserves to be mentioned in a "best fighter" conversation without "3D" being a caveat. Street Fighter, Darkstalkers, Samurai Shodown, King of Fighters, and Fatal Fury are all better than Virtua Fighter. Beating Tekken and Dead or Alive doesn't say all that much in the grand scheme of things. Virtua Fighter is, however, better than anything with "versus" in the title, especially if "Marvel" is with the "versus".Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
Also, when Sega shows up to an AM show without the only genre they really, really do well, racing, they lose.
Alright.
Unless Lindbergh is based on 360 or PS3, its destined to be another underutilized, unprofitable waste of space. GG Sega.
It's not based on either one, unfortunately, so I agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Considering Sega makes most of their money from their arcade business, and their arcade hardware is utilized more than any other, I think both of your points are moot, and the fact that arcade hardware doesn't determine whether a game gets a console port or not says you are also douche bags.
:)
Personally I don't see how SF & VF are mutually exclusive - I'm really interested in seenig both. Although my expectations for SF are super low...if they actually do all-new sprites in hi res they'll basically go way beyond what I'm expecting them to do.
Except for the part where they license it out and make money off it for years like they did with Naomi, instead of paying Microsoft or Sony.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Of course, VF is also what's keeping Sega alive at this point. In Japan, if it's good, VF5 will be BIG fucking news.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
Motherfuckers!
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2484/up47238nj.jpg
Looks like Lindbergh's specs are heavily geared towards PS3. :) :) :) :)
I beleive it's PC-based, and looks a shitload better than that TypeX shit which seems to be doing pretty well.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
It's comfortably capable of next-gen graphics, if that's any consolation. I wouldn't expect PS3/360 based arcade hardware to be ready this early anyway, but the games would look up to snuff on either.
VF 5 AND Virtua Tennis 3... heaven.
Is there supposed to be something special about Street Fighter 4? considering what VF4 was and what Street Fighter's become, I'd think that it would take complete failure on the part of every upcoming fighting game to make SF4 interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
there's always the chance for a RE4-like comeback I suppose, but I'm not getting my hopes up
Guh. Please don't post terrible old screens, man. :p
I wasn't even going to post new screens of HotD if they were released. HotD looks like garbage.
The texture work sucks, but it doesn't look bad.
I like Street Fighter (as a series) 100x more than Virtua Fighter. Thus, if SF4 has a 1 in 20 chance to live up to its legacy, the resulting value is 5x more favorable than VF to me. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Xero_Kaiser
WTF are you talking about? It's not even the same brand of CPU. As Frogacuda said, it's PC based.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
Yeah, I spoke too soon. Still, having Nvidia graphics architecture should be a plus, and considering it is pretty much off the shelf PC shit, next gen ports in general shouldn't be too difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
This news is far more intriguing than any of those sequels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
I agree.
I dont want to sound like a fanboy or anything but Im just actually excited that there are gonna be a few new games being shown that I have genuine interest in seeing. I mean SF4 and VF5 being shown at the same time how cool is that?
the smart thing they did as opposed to what Taito did was that it's not Windows XP based. You can still code for it on a low level and take better advantage of the hardwareQuote:
Originally Posted by Andy
hopefully sega makes a resurgence this generation.. i'm looking forward to seeing both VF5 and SF4. the VF series used to set the standard for what to expect graphically for a coming generation... lets hope this one blows us away.
Sci-Fi sounds like an Out-Trigger sequel.
where are metal hound and the new sonic?
Samurai Showdown, Fatal Fury, and King of Fighters?
What's next Yoshi? Killer Instinct? Mortal Kombat? Marvel Vs Capcom?
Well... Mark of the Wolves is fair. That sorta counts as a Fatal Fury game.
Why would they be shown at an arcade show?Quote:
Originally Posted by sedition
Lindbergh is an upgraded version of the xbox-based board, just like Naomi 2 was an upgrade of the original Naomi. I think porting has advanced to the point that the original hardware doesn't matter all that much anymore though. As long as they're going up the ladder in power it shouldn't be to hard. I'm sure they're making VF5 with a port in mind anyway.
Battle Monsters > Virtua Fighter.
http://www.sega-saturn.com/saturn/so...monster-01.jpg
No it's not. It's actually PC-based, more like Type X. Different architecture. Intel/P4 cpu, no unified memory (512 system, 256 video), probably uses an acual video card on a seperate add-in board, even. Looks to me like it has PC-like expansion slots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammadeau
Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo
sorry, i meant it more as... now bring on the new sonic.
i didn't expect them to be shown at the AM show.
anyway here's two shots from HotD4 playtest in early july.
I'm doubting SFIV's existence. If it was going to make a showing at the AMS, this week's Famitsu most likely would have mentioned it (or unveiled footage). Not like it was ever officially announced..
i read in EDGE magazine(or was it GAME TM) that the Lindberg is based on the 360.....so im kindda confused now.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
btw, HotD4 runs in High Defination. i'm not sure if all Lindbergh based games would run in HD though.
The fact that you even mentioned that drivel in the same post removed all credibility. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by PepsimanVsJoe
if sega does show vf5, my only hopes are that they get rid of those two new tools they added in evolution and revert the memory card situation on the home port back to VF4 style instead of Evo style.
The Frankenstein guy with the spook kick was the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
I'd be happy if SF4 had all of SF2 fighters, high res, and animated equal to or greater than SF3. Do that and make it play like 3rd strike.
I'm all for VF5 and a new HOTD. VT will always be a fun game so I dont have to go into that...
lol, do you know what kind of work load that would be? I don't think SF3 profited that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiMoogle
It can't be that much work to draw sprites.
If some obscure developer can crank out a dozen or so sprites for some shitty NeoGeo or Atomiswave fighter that will end up selling 2000 copies, then Capcom can sure as fuck put the same effort into something as lucrative as SF.
You have to be crazy. Nothing consumes more resources than sprites. Speaking from experience, spriting is one thing that takes exponentially more time with higher resolution. To do it in hi-res with SF3-level animation and detail would be a mammoth undertaking. The game would have to have like 7 characters or somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
See, 2D sprites still pretty much have to be done by pixel art, or at least the final layer of polish has to be done that way. It's just a functional thing. And pixel art is, by definition, done pixel by pixel. And there's 4 times as many pixels in a 150x75 sprite as in a 300x150, so it's going to take 4 times as long. It's just not worth it unless you milk it for 6 games like Guilty Gear, and even then the animation isn't exactly SF3 quality.
Now that 32-bit is more standard, actually, it might be possible to use real cel animation instead of traditional sprites, which would be time consuming in its own right, but probably less so than hi-res pixel art. I wonder how that would look... Memory limitations might still prevent that from working though, particularly with a disc-based media.
Then explain the existence of games like Eternal Fighter Zero and Melty Blood, which were made by a small group of Japanese otaku in their spare time. It can't be that hard, and the games are animated fairly well to boot (on the same level of KoF). However, the resolution is a very real issue, and both of these games have low-resolution sprites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
I'm not quite sure what you mean here -- are you talking about generating the images via traditional cel animation methods, or are you talking about reproducing the way cel animation is handled using vector graphics?Quote:
Now that 32-bit is more standard, actually, it might be possible to use real cel animation instead of traditional sprites, which would be time consuming in its own right, but probably less so than hi-res pixel art. I wonder how that would look... Memory limitations might still prevent that from working though, particularly with a disc-based media.
(I wonder if doing such a game with complex vector images would even work. Hrm...)
-Dippy
I always figured that high-res sprites would actually be easier to draw, because you wouldn't need to fiddle with the pixels as much to get things to look right.
Try drawing a face in a 16x16 grid, and then try doing it in a 8x8 grid, and you'll see what I mean.
EFZ uses very small, low-res sprites, and the animation doesn't even approach SF3 quality. I only played Melty Blood breifly so I can't comment as much about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipstick
But again, all I said was that it was "the biggest time consumer" not that it was impossible or anything. But most of the resources devoted to making a fighting game are dedicated to sprites, and it takes a huge amount of effort, so to say "eh, it can't be that hard" is kinda silly. It's going to quadruple the development time (in man-hours), and that's nothing to snort at.
You figured wrong. Low-res sprites are much easier. I can assure you I can bang out 10 good looking 32x32 sprites in the time it'll take me to polish a 100x100. You're right that you need to learn to gesture things that you don't have the resolution to detail, which is a challenge, but it's a skill you pick up, and once you do, it's not a time consuming thing to do, since again, you only have to hint at those details rather than actually illustrate fine details. Obviously drawing less is going to be quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
I've done plenty, I already know what goes into it,Quote:
Try drawing a face in a 16x16 grid, and then try doing it in a 8x8 grid, and you'll see what I mean.
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8205/yeti69ij.gif
I'm looking forward mostly to After Burner 4. System 16 calls it AB3, but it should be AB4 considering the 1991 Strike Fighter and its release on Sega CD as "After Burner III". Hopefully Sega goes with Strike Fighter type control in this one complete with full 360 degree, non-self centering turning.
As for SFIV sprites, where I'd really like to see SFIV go is on the Lindbergh. Its gigabyte of RAM and 256 MBytes of VRAM should be more than enough to use high res and animation even better than SF3. Hell, even the Type-X would be good.
Strike Fighter was the sequel to G-Loc, though, so I doubt they'll acknowledge that wonky localization. But "Afterburner III" is unofficial. Right now they're just calling it "Afterburner (tentative)".
You know, if they started when they started recycling sprites and putting out halfassed products, they'd have the whole roster ready to go by now! But if their newer products are any indication of their output as of late, Ingrid must have taken them 2+ years to draw, so I'd bet on SF4, if it exists, being cel shaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
When I saw Melty Blood, it surprised me a great deal. Low res or not, if fans can put that much work into the games they make, I wonder why companies the size of Capcom won't. Capcom Fighting Jam/Evolution looked lazy before I knew games like Melty Blood existed, and now it bothers me twice as much.
Preview screens are here:
Afterburner
http://sega.jp/arcade/lindbergh/images/screen_ab_01.jpg
http://sega.jp/arcade/lindbergh/images/screen_ab_02.jpg
Virtua Fighter 5
http://sega.jp/arcade/lindbergh/imag...een_vf5_01.jpg
House Of The Dead 4
http://sega.jp/arcade/lindbergh/imag...en_hod4_01.jpg
http://sega.jp/arcade/lindbergh/imag...en_hod4_02.jpg
Power Smash 3
http://sega.jp/arcade/lindbergh/imag...een_ps3_01.jpg
http://sega.jp/arcade/lindbergh/imag...een_ps3_02.jpg
Psy Phi
http://sega.jp/arcade/lindbergh/imag...een_psy_01.jpg
http://sega.jp/arcade/lindbergh/imag...een_psy_02.jpg
http://www.virtuafighter.jp/
http://powersmash3.sega.jp/
http://psy-phi.sega.jp/
http://afterburner.sega.jp/
http://hod4.sega.jp/
Holy shit, the veins and scar on Akira's model are amazing.
And not one decent arcade in my city.
It's just not fair.
Excellent news, Sega arcade games are great fun! SF4 will be interesting too, this is going to be a good show, too bad I won't be there :(
vf5: holy fuck
so any actually in game shots of vf5? some probable CG shot of Akira(although it looks great) isn't that exciting.
None of those shots stack up to Oblivian.
I'm not impressed.
I hear Oblivian sucks.
Crappy video:
http://rapidshare.de/files/4592225/sega.3G2.html
That was actually more impressive than I was expecting. HotD doesn't look bad at all, and is actually quite an improvement on what was shown before. I thought Afterburner looked amazing. And Virtua Tennis was the most surprising to me, that looked incredible, save for the last guy with the big mouth. :p And, of course, VF looked friggin perfect.
The worst thing about it was just the video itself. The choppiness and low quality made it hard to really see the details and fluidity.
I have to say, Afterburner looked really fun.
Those pictures don't do it justice.
what file format is that video...?
You are a good man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
you should be killed.
Is that the same video from E3? Rapidshare says the file is being downloaded too much and won't let me grab it...
i got a 15 second clip of a shot of the lindberg box.. neat.
:cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by sedition
(It's quicktime.)
:cry:
Similar. Definitely better clarity, though it's still choppy. HotD footage looks a lot better, Afterburner looks the same but you can see it much better, VF shows a lot more and looks amazing, and Virtua Tennis and Phy-Phi are new. Psy-Phi looks like penis, however.Quote:
Originally Posted by cka
ooooo, anybody feel like aiming it over to me?
nvm rapidshare works now
alright yeah that vid was hotness... wonder who those two new cats in vf are
This is a bunch of shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
While true as of 1990, modern software and hardware render sprites irrelevant, if developers decide not to use them. Then it's 2D animation based on what the programmers need. They can "clip-em-out" any way they please, based on the engine's ability to handle the images.
my bad.. had to update the good ol quicktime player.. watching now.. sorry guy, you shoulnd't be killed.
Thank you. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sedition
so, both After Burner and House of the Dead 4 look like they could be good arcade games...
virtua tennis looks like virtua tennis with better graphics.. good deal.
PSY-PHI looks ultra lame... maybe the gameplay will be mindbending, and will change everthing.. but, can gameplay save it from those character designs?
VF5.. was what i was looking forward to the most... hmmm looks good.. but didn't blow me away like i was hoping.. i guess i just think the character designs are starting to show their age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
if SF4 doesnt get new sprites then it's not a true sequel!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cka
I FUCKING HATE RAPIDSHARE! THAT JUNK NEVER WORKS FOR ME!!!
I'm speaking sticktly about palettized sprite work and the truths of doing things that way, not any alternate methods. It's true of basically every 2D fighting game ever so far, so it's still relevant until we have reason to beleive it's not. Also you didn't contradict, or even address anything that I said in the text you quoted. It's as true of Guilty Gear XX as it is of SF2, SF3, CvS2 or anything else you care to mention.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
*looks at screen shots*
Since when were Evangelions in HotD?
I suspect your knowledge base is obsolete. The new fighters aren't going to be on MVS boards, y'know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
edit: Look, the long and short of it is, creating highly detailed animation/artwork for a game is now wholly depending on the skill of the particular team working on a project. Technical limitations are kaupt, as long as a company (SNK...) isn't stuck in 1994.
I said some posts back that there might be other ways of doing it, but it hasn't been done. Ever. So no, I wouldn't call it obsolete.Quote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog
That's just not true, though. Even Guilty Gear uses 5-bit sprites (32-colors). Memory limitations still have a something to do with it. I don't know what practical problems would be presented by shifting away from sprites. I do think you could do it on new hardware, but to say the way it's still done to this day is "obsolete" is wrong. It's still the norm in the current gen.Quote:
edit: Look, the long and short of it is, creating highly detailed animation/artwork for a game is now wholly depending on the skill of the particular team working on a project. Technical limitations are kaupt, as long as a company (SNK...) isn't stuck in 1994.
EDIT: Ok, think about this: Street Fighter 3: 3rd strike used 64 color sprites and they still had to scale them down to work on DC and PS2 (and I think reduced them to 32 color, I'm not sure), so that's pushing it for current gen. Now if you went from 6-bit to 32-bit, and doubled the resolution, you'd need more than 20 times that amount of memory. You absolutely couldn't do it on a current system, and it'd still be a strain for a next-gen. Though you have good texture compression on new video hardware, so you could do it, but that doesn't neccessarily mean you should expect it just yet, especially when we dont even know what hardware it's running on.
can you guys talk about sprites in the sf4 thread pls
Mortal Kombat.
kthx?
Anyrate, HOTD looks... odd. Those aren't zombies. Always down for a new Afterburner, though. They should bring back the old rotating cockpit setup that used to be everywhere.
I'm going and I can't fecking wait!
http://media.games.ign.com/articles/...70/vids_1.html
"high res" trailer of vf5 (and the rest of the SEGA games can be found around that link too, just browse around games.ign.com)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cka
Mortal Kombat.
so I should make replies consisting of 'mortal kombat' a bannable offense?
yeah, I think I'll do that
enjoy your vacation kids, and remember to not shit threads up when you get back!
Afterburner really does look fantastic. Captures that awesome sense of motion from the original.
3rd Strike sprites on DC and PS2 aren't scaled down or have less color depth. Actually, they're upscaled from their original resolution for the fake low-res display.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
And nobody here is still believing that SFIV is in the works, right? I mean, this is TNL, but still...
Read the official thread about this...its quite sad :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Recap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerodash
I'll pass after reading the first post. But to clarify, Insert Credit NEVER reported that Street Fighter 4 was in the works. Brandon just reported that a certain misinformer was passing around the info. Which was bullshit since day 1.
Well they're scaled down and reduced in color depth compared to Double Impact. That's all I can say, since I haven't had the opportunity to scrutinize the different arcade versions side by side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recap
and the kind of scaling you're talking about is totally different than what I mean, because it doesn't affect the actual resolution of the sprites.
I wasn't too impressed until the missiles started flying and shit started blowing up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
The smoke and vapor trails look really nice, and gameplay really does seem faithful to the original.
I'm assuming it's a remake of the first, although it wouldn't surprise me if it ends up being titled Afterburner 3 anyway, since Afterburner 2 wasn't much more than a remake either.
I think all Capcom arcade games need to be scaled on any console, because of their oddball arcade resolution which produces non-square pixels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Afterburner was considerably less than a remake, in fact. It was more of a revision or an update. The only difference was that it had a throttle added.Quote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
Again, that wasn't the type of scaling I meant. I meant that the actual sprites were smaller to save memory, regardless of how they're stretched on screens.Quote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
Actually, not every home system displays square pixels and not all the CP-S ports have been scaled (SS ones, for instance), but you, more or less, got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kedawa
The only difference between W Impact and DC 3rd Strike [true-low res mode] graphics is a tiny pixel distortion. Fake low-res modes graphics are just upscaled and filtered, but never "scaled down", nor reduced in color. If you meant the display quality on this modes, then yep, it is "scaled down" due to the artifacts.
Ugh. I don't think you understand. I don't mean actual stretching of the sprites, I meant redrawing them at a smaller size to fit in memory.
But nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
They ARE smaller than other versions of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recap
Would you guys shut the fuck up about the fucking sprites?
That's because they scaled the whole graphics a bit IN REAL TIME. Hence the "pixel distortion".Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
On the dreamcast, you could adjust the degree of scaling in the options, but I think there are games on other systems where the sprites were actually redrawn at a different resolution, just like the SNES SF games.
hay guys whats going on in this threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Recap
Anyway, let's take sprite talk to the SF4 thread, where we can bitch more about things that don't even exist and fake low-res and real high-res and Yossy Eyeland or whatever the fuck you guys are talking about anymore. I'd like to talk about how all the zombies in HotD4 look the same and it makes me sad. You'd think a whole bunch of guys wouldn't get the same tattoo like that.
Afterburner looks insanely fun, though, and I can't figure out why. It just looks like something I want to play. I also support the return of the R360 cab, because that thing made me sick as all hell. I'd say they should make one that better follows the actual in-game movement, but then I think everybody would get sick, possibly pass out.
Yeah, they should do that.
You'd think they'd have different wounds, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grave
Don't worry too much about it, though, those are just place-holders.
The game is nowhere near finished, and stuff like model variety doesn't get added until the later stages of development.
Getting back on topic...
HOLY MOTHER OF SNAP !11
VF5 looks freakin' incredible! Remember the PS2 old man demo? That's exactly what Shun looks like. I was kinda hoping the characters would act slightly less incredibly retarded, though. Yeah! Alright!
As much as I hate to admit it, 2D fighting is dead, dead, dead. KoF (which has been stagnant for half a decade) & GGX#RR&^%.biz are the only two series recieving any kind of attention, unless you count Samurai Shodown which I think we should all politely ignore like the crazy old uncle it's become.
So with that in mind - ALL HAIL THE NEW UNQUESTIONED KING OF FIGHTING GAMES.
Too bad a) I suck at VF, and b) it's impossible to find skilled players to play against. They better bring this one home with netplay (finally).
Here are the specs..in japanese. But it says Pentium 4 @ 3Ghz, 2 sticks of 512mb ram, a 256mb Nvidia GPU (maybe based off the 7800??), has LAN capabilities and the games use the DVD format. Looks like a standard pc tower on its side.
Lindbergh specs
This is correct. :tu:Quote:
Originally Posted by StriderKyo