Next Generation ... Fantasy vs Reality.

Ever since the TGS, I have had to wade through about 500 threads of nonsense. Comparing this rendered screenshot with that rendered screenshot. How this console will be awesome because "look at the detail in his mustache" vs "Oh my god, that is fluid animation".

So, I came upon a thread extolling the wonders of the 360. Look at this great Call of Duty 2 screenie.

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/...6083820688.jpg


Wow. Jaw dropping. I know its a rendered cut scene ... but still, that is pretty impressive stuff.


So, a do a little digging .. and here is some actual IN-GAME stuff.

http://62.4.81.225/html/cod2/c38.jpg

http://www.cod-infobase.de/?page=new...fd92bbdcdb7b2a

Maybe I am a little harsh. But if I spent 400 dollars on a new machine .. I would HOPE it looked better than that. I don't even know where to begin. I realize this a 4-way screenie and you will lose some graphical detail ... but that is fucking putrid looking after looking at the other screenies. You would think/hope that the 360 could support 64 players with that kind of graphical quality drop.

The only other example I can think of is PDZero. Where you had some nice rendered stuff .. and absolute horrible in-game screenshots. Is this what the next generation has to offer?

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Originally Posted by toxic

The only other example I can think of is PDZero. Where you had some nice rendered stuff .. and absolute horrible in-game screenshots. Is this what the next generation has to offer?

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this is what the 360 will have until the ps3 comes out. the only games that look good wont be out until late next year.

launch window games don't look impressive OMG UNPRECEDENTEDexclamation points teh ones

Your first screen shot is easily possible on a 360, and will probably be surpassed by this time next year. Just wait, things take time.

So, it's ok for a company to release a platform with sub-par games? That's the industry norm, now? That is acceptable?

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Originally Posted by toxic

So, it's ok for a company to release a product with sub-par games?

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Uhhh.........is it just me or does that not make any sense?

As for those screens, and this topic, I'm not really worried. There will always be games that will blow you away, and there will always be games that are sub par graphically, even on the new consoles. This isn't something new.

Those COD2 images also cannot be compared, one is from an in game 4 person split screen which is obviously from an extremely early version, and one is a reletivly high resolution capture meant to look cinematic.

The time between hardware design, alpha devkits, and retail launch is so short that there just isn't time.

The manufacturer doesn't have time to get alpha and beta kits out, doesn't have time to finish SDKs, and the developers don't have time to get the most out of the machine. Developers typically have 9 months with devkits before the console launches, with alpha kits being fairly useless for the final product.

The only alternative is to finalize hardware, get fairly complete devkits and SDKs with appropriate documentation out, give the developers 3 months or so to learn, give them another 12 months or so to get a good game out. With that kind of schedule, the 360 would be launching in the summer of 2006 for example.

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Originally Posted by toxic

So, it's ok for a company to release a platform with sub-par games? That's the industry norm, now? That is acceptable?

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PS2 did it and look how it turned out.

CGI screens will always look better then in-game shots just because they're cut sales and eye candy. We won't be seeing games look anywhere near as good up till the next 30 years down the road when developers learn about putting curves in polys on machines running with 16million bit processors.

I have to be honest, I think even the very first pic in this thread, the "supposed quality" pic, is pretty lackluster.

I don't think it's so much about how it doesn't look good, cause honestly, all next gen games look decent to fantastical. IMO, it's more about, why? Why do we need more polys again? Cause I've yet to see a game that is anything other than prettier. Nothing about the next generation in terms of processing power has shown to give us anything in the way of new gameplay experiences. It just feels like more of a refinement than anything else.

here is a DX10 demo from CryTek showing off some impressive new features of the Cry Engine under DirectX 10 API.

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Originally Posted by EightBit

Why do we need more polys again?

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Since when did "need" enter the equation?

And no, we're not going to be getting all-new gameplay experiences. I don't know why people are still expecting every advancement in technology to bring with it a brand new set of genres. The videogame industry is past the point of rapid creative expansion and has moved into a period of refinement. It had to happen at some point.

What can I say, you're right. I'm not expecting anything though. What I'm saying is that there is nothing here that makes me say, "Gee, I need to go buy a new system". I'm not expecting a new set of genres, I'm not expecting rapid creative expansion.

I don't think there needs to be though. What I mean by new gameplay experiences is I guess a sort of refinement. Like a 3D action game from the Playstion to a 3D action game to the PS2. IN two completely different realms, cause the added power of the PS2 lets you get more enemies on screen, better AI, bigger worlds, ect. All that leads to a totally different experience. Could Ninja Gained Xbox be done on the 32-64 bit systems? Sure, it would just be scaled back so much that it would no longer resemble the Xbox game, and be a totally different experience.

Of course, alot of what I want to see out of the new generation can't be expressed in poly counts, lighting effects and textures. It's gonna take me playing them to see it. Or atleast some nice gameplay videos. That's what I'm saying. Just looking at the 360, I see the same exact things I have now... only prettier.

Only video I can think of off the top of my head that made me go, "Wow!" was Warhawk or something like that. Showed a vast armada of small aircraft flying through the air, with other gargantuan ships. It wasn't a gameplay video, but they were saying that this is what the game will look like, and yes, you can fight with all of these ships of which there seemed to be maybe a thousand. You give these ships fantastic AI, battle over a massive airspace, and you got something that I haven't seen this generation. Maybe the Rogue Squadron air battles come close, but no where near that scale, or with really good AI.

Well, there comes a point where improvents in those areas amount to dick-waving rather than actually meaning anything. If one machine can show 10,000 characters on screen at once and the other can show 50,000, it's still not going to make a difference for the vast majority of games. The jump from 10 to 50 had more practical applications than a jump from 10,000 to 50,000 would.

That said, I've seen 360 screenshots (Kameo comes to mind immediately) that show off huge armies in real time. Smaller scale games will most likely benefit in ways that can't be conveyed though screenshots or game trailers.

I agree. Just look at something like 99 Nights. Unless there's some kind of magic that happens only when you hold the controller, it doesn't matter that it has a bajillion enemies on the screen. You're still doing the same thing that's been done in, what, six or seven Dynasty Warrior games?

What interests me with the new poly power is something like Shadowrun. Thats a game that I was praying they wouldn't attempt on the current gen. Just because I think it would need such a vast ammount of areas, indoors, outdoors ect. That just couldn't be done right now. I'm not saying that it can't be done, or wont. I'm just saying that as of right now, they're showing dick for the reasoning behind a new generation. Usually there is atleast one game that ammounts to a tech demo at launch that atleast shows off some of the possibilities that the new generation offers.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

I have to be honest, I think even the very first pic in this thread, the "supposed quality" pic, is pretty lackluster.

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No need to be "honest"; it is lackluster. Seriously, that first screen looks current PC quality. Perhaps less.

I'm a big fan of the original Call of Duty, and it's sad that the highest praise I can give the sequel is that it has some nice looking helmets and fur coats:

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/...6083838218.jpg
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/...6083852999.jpg

I'm sure it looks much better in motion, and may still turn out good, but I wish they would've either given it a lot more time, or skipped trying to make their own engine.

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Originally Posted by EightBit

What interests me with the new poly power is something like Shadowrun. Thats a game that I was praying they wouldn't attempt on the current gen. Just because I think it would need such a vast ammount of areas, indoors, outdoors ect. That just couldn't be done right now.

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Are you kidding? It's going to be an FPS. They could have done it on the original Half-Life engine. It'll probably end up either like Deus Ex or Project Snowblind.

I think the people who say marginal improvement are thinking in terms of current games, and not the sludge from early in the PS2's lifespan. There are a few titles that push a system around early on, but they are few and far between. Improvements are gradual as people learn how to use the machine, but they're still on the way.

As for gameplay, that's a whole other matter. Outside of anything demanding large crowds, there's really not much that can't be done on the current systems, but that's just the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Ammadeau

Are you kidding? It's going to be an FPS. They could have done it on the original Half-Life engine. It'll probably end up either like Deus Ex or Project Snowblind.

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Sorry, I meant the Shadowrun I wanted, not the one that's coming.

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Originally Posted by Bacon McShig

PS2 did it and look how it turned out.

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Took the words right out of my mouth. I held off buying a PS2 because there weren't enough quality games and the games that were out didn't look any better than my precious Dreamcast. Quite a few looked worse, especially with the anti-aliasing problems. I knew that it would eventually have quality stuff that looked better. So I waited and enjoyed my Dreamcast. Then I seen Devil May Cry and I HAD to get the PS2.
Alot of the 360's games are going to be on PC, so why bother with one yet. I was most interested in Ghost Recon but as soon as I seen that it'd be on PC, I didn't care about the 360. Call of Duty will be MUCH BETTER on PC anyway, so why bother with it. Project Gotham? I got Burnout Revenge. This is going to be like the PSP all over again,early adopters feeling burned and us saying "we told you so" .

Give this system a year. By then there will be some great stuff coming down the pike. They'll be competing with PS3 by then.