Total Carnage (Midway arcade game conversion) now available for Jaguar

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24 Sep 2005, 01:56 AM
Agent X

Total Carnage (Midway arcade game conversion) now available for Jaguar

It's a bit later than we all hoped for, but at long last, the Jaguar version of Total Carnage is ready for release, courtesy of Songbird Productions!

http://songbird-productions.com/graf...oxes/tcbox.jpg

Press release

TOTAL SURPRISE FOR JAGUAR FANS

September 22, 2005

For immediate release:

ROCHESTER, MN -- Songbird announced today the immediate availability of Total Carnage for the Atari Jaguar. Total Carnage is the classic arcade game originally ported by Hand Made Software and licensed from long-time game publisher Midway.

In Total Carnage, one or two players assume the roles of Captain Carnage or Major Mayhem in a tongue-in-cheek frantic assault on the dastardly forces of General Ahkboob. There is an unending -- often overwhelming -- number of enemies pursuing the heroes at all times, but thankfully there are also many powerups, bombs, and even missile strikes to assist players in their quest. Player strive to rescue civilians and collect valuable items such as keys, dogtags, and more.

Songbird founder Carl Forhan spoke enthusiastically about the release, saying, "This is a great port of a classic arcade game which I know Jaguar fans have been anticipating for many years. I'm thrilled to finally be able to publish this never-before-seen final release candidate version of the game." Total Carnage is now available for sale through the Songbird website. Orders are expected to begin shipping next week.

Songbird Productions is a premier developer and publisher for the Atari Lynx and Jaguar. To keep up to date with the latest news at Songbird Productions, be sure to visit the company web site at http://songbird-productions.com . Total Carnage is trademark and copyright 1991 Midway Amusement Games, LLC. All rights reserved. This message may be reprinted in its entirety.

http://songbird-productions.com/graffx/jaguar/tc2.jpg http://songbird-productions.com/graffx/jaguar/tc4.jpg

http://songbird-productions.com/graffx/jaguar/tc5.jpg http://songbird-productions.com/graffx/jaguar/tc7.jpg

http://songbird-productions.com/graffx/jaguar/tc8.jpg http://songbird-productions.com/graf.../tcoptions.jpg

You can find more information here.
24 Sep 2005, 02:07 AM
flux=rad

$90? Who are they kidding?
24 Sep 2005, 02:17 AM
K3V

I was going to post this but wanted to avoid the inevitable flamewar ;)

Wait, is diffx banned? If so it might be OK for a while.
24 Sep 2005, 02:23 AM
Tommy Tallarico

Wow, that's way better than buying Midway Arcade Treasures 2 for $19.99!
24 Sep 2005, 02:34 AM
kingoffighters

I think it is cool that people like Songbird productions are still publishing (and help fix up the unfinished version of TC) games for the Jaguar. Nice.
24 Sep 2005, 03:22 AM
CRV

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingoffighters

I think it is cool that people like Songbird productions are still publishing (and help fix up the unfinished version of TC) games for the Jaguar. Nice.

Yes, it is nice to see companies like Songbird doing what they do.

As for the price tag, that won't keep hardcore Jaguar fans from buying, I'm sure. Really, were YOU planning on buying it?
24 Sep 2005, 03:47 AM
Omega Supreme

Wow, I spend several years away from this board, and come back to find this posted. Nice.

This release is obviously for the hardcore Jag crowd, especially giving the price. Just a note, however: the extremely high price tag is mostly due to the high cost of the ROMs being used, which ensures that no one BUT the hardcore guys will buy it. There's a few people currently working on less expensive and more modern media, but it just ain't ready yet.
24 Sep 2005, 03:50 AM
K3V

It's worth noting that the game comes with full Jaguar-style packaging - box, label and instructions. I did the layouts on 'em.
24 Sep 2005, 04:36 AM
PKBMax

This is very cool, but Carl Forhan at Songbird has always charged absolutely insane prices.

I'd love to give it a shot, but I can't justify it at $90. I'd trade a flash-cart for one though ;)
24 Sep 2005, 09:23 AM
gamevet

Totaaaaaaaaaal Rip-off!
24 Sep 2005, 09:40 AM
voltz

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3V

It's worth noting that the game comes with full Jaguar-style packaging - box, label and instructions. I did the layouts on 'em.

You did the layout? Why didn't you let us know about this sooner?
24 Sep 2005, 09:49 AM
kingoffighters

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRV

Yes, it is nice to see companies like Songbird doing what they do.

As for the price tag, that won't keep hardcore Jaguar fans from buying, I'm sure. Really, were YOU planning on buying it?

I am considering it, but I will get Protector SE, Skyhammer first before I even think about getting TC. I want to play original titles more than conversions at this point, but I would like to support Songbird.

Yes, the price is high but considering that this is a small/custom print run, I think the high cost/price is understandable. But it is hard to justify when you can get the $19.99 collection (or heck, emulation for free).
24 Sep 2005, 09:54 AM
Some Stupid Japanese Name

the mind reels at what they will plop their money down for, but it is theirs to plop so more power to them.
I just find it weird that someone on AA started a thread a couple of weeks ago asking if jagfans would be willing to pay such a price, and lo and behold, here it is, at this price (if everyone had said no more than $50, would the game be cheaper?). I don't think Carl is the kind of guy to do that, it's just weird is all.
24 Sep 2005, 10:18 AM
Yoshi

It (sort of) makes sense to continue working on exclusive, obscure Jaguar titles. However, releasing a port of a bad arcade game for $90 when a perfect version with a better control setup is available on other systems with several other games for $20, that's where fanboy/collector stupidity really shines.
24 Sep 2005, 11:11 AM
voltz

I have one problem with this, how are you supposed to fire without another stick handy?
24 Sep 2005, 11:14 AM
Rumpy

Nice av/sig combo voltz.
24 Sep 2005, 11:30 AM
voltz

Gearing up for october.

thx.
24 Sep 2005, 11:40 AM
kedawa

Quote:

Originally Posted by voltz

I have one problem with this, how are you supposed to fire without another stick handy?

I was thinking the same thing.
The SNES conrtroller made that version playable, but I don't see how it could play properly on a jag pad.
As far as the price goes, I'd pay it if I were a fan of the game or a jag freak.
It's probably a better game than a lot of MVS games that fetch a similar price.
24 Sep 2005, 01:33 PM
K3V

Quote:

Originally Posted by voltz

You did the layout? Why didn't you let us know about this sooner?

NDA's dude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedawa

I was thinking the same thing.
The SNES conrtroller made that version playable, but I don't see how it could play properly on a jag pad.
As far as the price goes, I'd pay it if I were a fan of the game or a jag freak.
It's probably a better game than a lot of MVS games that fetch a similar price.

There are 2 control setups for the Jag version - either fire with the regular fire buttons (I believe it locks into your angle as long as you hold it down), or fire in any direction with the keypad.
24 Sep 2005, 02:02 PM
Cowdisease

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kano on the Phone

Wow, that's way better than buying Midway Arcade Treasures 2 for $19.99!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshi

It (sort of) makes sense to continue working on exclusive, obscure Jaguar titles. However, releasing a port of a bad arcade game for $90 when a perfect version with a better control setup is available on other systems with several other games for $20, that's where fanboy/collector stupidity really shines.

End of discussion for the Jaguar version of Total Carnage, which is now the new definition example for superfluous and unnecesary.
24 Sep 2005, 02:21 PM
Dolemite

This is a joke, right? This is even more stupid than publishing new games for the Dreamcast.

Just let these consoles die, people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kano on the Phone

Wow, that's way better than buying Midway Arcade Treasures 2 for $19.99!

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumpy

Nice av/sig combo voltz.

It totally is. Thumbs up. :tu:
24 Sep 2005, 04:33 PM
Master

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3V

It's worth noting that the game comes with full Jaguar-style packaging - box, label and instructions. I did the layouts on 'em.

That is very cool. You really should let us know beforehand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3V

NDA's dude.

On a post-mortem Jaguar homebrew of sorts?

You are telling me Songbird made you sign an NDA? Wouldn't want people to know about the product I guess... Though, if the deal wasn't complete and they were sitting on a copy that was ready to go, I guess they HAD to wait.
24 Sep 2005, 04:37 PM
K3V

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master

That is very cool. You really should let us know beforehand.

On a post-mortem Jaguar homebrew of sorts?

You are telling me Songbird made you sign an NDA? Wouldn't want people to know about the product I guess...

First, quit editing your post ;)

I didn't physically sign an NDA but agreed to not talk about it before it was ready for release. The Jaguar homebrew scene has had a lot of big promises with no results so it's best to keep things quiet until they're ready to go. And with TC there was the added factor of getting permission from Midway which took quite some time. I know he was hoping for a release at CGE last year but wasn't able to secure rights in time...so this has been sitting in limbo for over a year at least. Jag fans tend to get irate.

So as long as he didn't want me talking about it, I didn't. There are quite a few other projects I have my hands in but can't talk about until the time is right, unfortunately.
24 Sep 2005, 05:22 PM
mollipen

I dunno... I'm not the type who would buy this, but it is nice to see it finally come out for the Jaguar fans out there. If it was a totally new game, I'd say it was ridiculous, but instead this is just getting a game out that was almost finished anyhow. Back when I was a much bigger Dreamcast collector, had somebody done this for, say, Propellar Arena or Half-life, I probably would have snatched it up.

Obviously you aren't going to buy the game for the game, because there are far better versions. This is simply for the collectors, and for them, I'm sure it makes a great addition.
24 Sep 2005, 05:35 PM
Jeremy

This is good for those who want it, and for the less insane among us, MAT 2 will do. As a sidenote, I'd totally buy Propeller Arena if it was released like this. Well, with a much lower pricetag, obviously. I'm still hoping that Sega puts it on a collection of some kind, with online play.
24 Sep 2005, 06:04 PM
kedawa

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3V

There are quite a few other projects I have my hands in but can't talk about until the time is right, unfortunately.

I hope one of them is Mortal Kombat II or MK Trilogy for the Jag.
24 Sep 2005, 08:03 PM
K3V

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedawa

I hope one of them is Mortal Kombat II or MK Trilogy for the Jag.

MK3 was supposedly in development for the JagCD, but AFAIK a proto has never turned up, only documentation from within Atari.
24 Sep 2005, 08:35 PM
kedawa

I wonder what ever happened to all of the Sega titles that were rumoured.
I remember Atari had some sort of cross-licensing deal with Sega back then.
24 Sep 2005, 08:53 PM
Grave

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3V

I didn't physically sign an NDA but agreed to not talk about it before it was ready for release. The Jaguar homebrew scene has had a lot of big promises with no results so it's best to keep things quiet until they're ready to go. And with TC there was the added factor of getting permission from Midway which took quite some time. I know he was hoping for a release at CGE last year but wasn't able to secure rights in time...so this has been sitting in limbo for over a year at least. Jag fans tend to get irate.

So as long as he didn't want me talking about it, I didn't. There are quite a few other projects I have my hands in but can't talk about until the time is right, unfortunately.

I like these policies. I know it's not the same category at all, but if all those cool-looking fan-made projects like the 3D Chrono Trigger and the 2D Ocarina of Time could keep their mouths shut until they had a product to release and not whore for attention on the internet, we might have actually got to see them.

Anyway, $90 is a bit crazy for anyone that's casual about this, but look at the prices people pay for Neo Geo AES carts, heh. I'm sure there's some people who are very excited about this. I'm not one of them, but I think it's interesting to see new releases coming up from the community. I know there were some recent Sega CD games, and if I'm not mistaken, at least one PCE CD game?

I wonder if any Jaguar collectors have purchased the dentistry camera that reuses the Jaguar mold.
24 Sep 2005, 09:09 PM
mollipen

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedawa

I wonder what ever happened to all of the Sega titles that were rumoured.
I remember Atari had some sort of cross-licensing deal with Sega back then.

It was more like, Atari sued them (for patents on very simple video game-based stuff, like a character moving off of the screen and coming out the other side) I think, and part of the settlement was that Sega make games for the Jaguar. Obviously, there would have been NO interest for Sega to make games for such a non-important console otherwise.
24 Sep 2005, 09:20 PM
kedawa

I guess Sega must have just delayed the games and waited for Atari to eat dirt.
If that's the case, it'd be one of the smartest things Sega did back then.
24 Sep 2005, 09:27 PM
K3V

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grave

Anyway, $90 is a bit crazy for anyone that's casual about this, but look at the prices people pay for Neo Geo AES carts, heh. I'm sure there's some people who are very excited about this. I'm not one of them, but I think it's interesting to see new releases coming up from the community. I know there were some recent Sega CD games, and if I'm not mistaken, at least one PCE CD game?

Carts are MUCH more expensive to produce than CD-based games. Chips, PCB's, Cart cases and labels. And for Jag games you need the white cartridge insert, instruction manual and outer cardboard box. Factor in a small print run and prices per unit jump up quickly.

But carts have the benefit of having a larger userbase, and greater reliability. Some of the homebrew JagCD games that have come out have worked fine on some CD players and not on others. Also note that games written to run from a cartridge on the Jag cannot be changed to the CD format without a signifigant re-write of the code.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grave

I wonder if any Jaguar collectors have purchased the dentistry camera that reuses the Jaguar mold.

I know some people were looking into getting one - but I don't believe anyone was ever able to get a hold of one. Here's a letter from the company that was makinge the dental cameras:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index...=post&id=18997
24 Sep 2005, 10:11 PM
Grave

Yeah, I understand why carts are more expensive, but I do think it definitely limits the audience, compatibility issues aside. Only the most hardcore of the hardcore can drop $90 on a single game that more or less only exists to be a cool collectible and a curiosity, as it's not even the best port available. Like I said, I'm sure the audience exists, but I couldn't see myself there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3V

I know some people were looking into getting one - but I don't believe anyone was ever able to get a hold of one. Here's a letter from the company that was makinge the dental cameras:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index...=post&id=18997

Holy shit, that's really cool that they'd respond like that, that is, if they plan to make good on it. A working Jaguar with that white shell would be pretty cool. Hah, not to mention a wall-mounted Jaguar.
25 Sep 2005, 01:25 AM
PKBMax

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3V

I know some people were looking into getting one - but I don't believe anyone was ever able to get a hold of one. Here's a letter from the company that was makinge the dental cameras:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index...=post&id=18997

That's very cool. I'd love to have one of those white shells.
25 Sep 2005, 02:19 PM
Frogacuda

Quote:

Originally Posted by flux=rad

$90? Who are they kidding?

Bear in mind at least $50 or $60 of that is manufacturing cost.

Songbird does good work. I'm glad to see them put out something new. I payed $40 for Cybervirus on Lynx and I honestly got my money's worth out of it.
25 Sep 2005, 02:25 PM
Giga Power

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBMax

That's very cool. I'd love to have one of those white shells.

Yeah so would I. A white jag would be pretty sexy.
26 Sep 2005, 12:37 PM
JefmcC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga Power

Yeah so would I. A white jag would be pretty sexy.

Paint?
26 Sep 2005, 12:46 PM
Josh

http://www.imaginsystems.com/products.htm
26 Sep 2005, 12:48 PM
kedawa

My Jag has no shell at all, since I used it to make a clock.
I actually kinda like the looks of my 'naked' Jag though.
It's very industrial.
26 Sep 2005, 01:23 PM
RoleTroll

If I still had my Jag, and the wife wouldn't flip out, I would consider buying it for $90.

Yeah, it would make more sense to release games for the more popular systems like 2600, NES, SNES, Genny. Especially PSX since those games are still playable on PS2 and PS3. Still cool, though.
26 Sep 2005, 05:28 PM
K3V

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh

http://www.imaginsystems.com/products.htm

Looks like they changed the mold - the old one was called the "Hot Rod" I think - the New Look 2020 thing on their site kind of looks like the Jag, but the old one was the exact same mold.

EDIT: Found a PDF:

http://www.imaginsystems.com/Graphic...20DS-final.pdf

Never mind, I'm an idiot - it's still on their site.
28 Sep 2005, 02:23 AM
Omega Supreme

I love how they note it as a "modular design". Too bad they haven't released a module looking like the Jag CD. I'm sure dentist patients would love having something shoved into their mouths that is attached to a contraption which looks like a toilet seat.
30 Sep 2005, 05:18 PM
Eight One

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamevet

Totaaaaaaaaaal Rip-off!

Nooo waay!
30 Sep 2005, 05:20 PM
K3V

I got my copy of TC the other day, came out pretty sweet.
30 Sep 2005, 06:23 PM
PKBMax

How does the control work?
30 Sep 2005, 06:44 PM
K3V

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBMax

How does the control work?

Quote:

Originally Posted by K3V

There are 2 control setups for the Jag version - either fire with the regular fire buttons (I believe it locks into your angle as long as you hold it down), or fire in any direction with the keypad.

I've given thought to adding a second joystick to my homemade Jag stick that taps into the keypad for up, down, left and right. Still trying to decide if TC is worth it though, it's a lot easier to fire up MAME on the Xbox and play with the dual sticks.

Still, the game has more colors than the SNES version and runs at a smooth clip. I have just always really sucked at it.