It's like KotoR and GoW had a sexy baby. Great story and good graphics, but I think Mario is more "fun".
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It's like KotoR and GoW had a sexy baby. Great story and good graphics, but I think Mario is more "fun".
All this talk of story and cinematics makes me want to run away from this game. If you really care about roleplaying play a pen and paper RPG, I want gameplay. Is it more Gears of War with character advancement or a J-RPG?
It's been a while since Spo has made such a retarded comment in gaming discussion. Way to go.
So you're saying no one should ever care about stories in games, and if we do we should go play pen and paper RPGs? Yeah that's entirely reasonable.
I can understand you not giving a damn about a good story, in fact it fits you, but that comment was retarded.
:bang:Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
To each his own, so what if this guy would rather play Battalion Wars 2. lol!
No. I said if you care about roleplaying you should play a pen and paper RPG instead of a limited computer simulation of a pen and paper RPG. As for stories in games, I said I don't care for them. A game's story isn't at all a selling point for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief Silver
Oh, that's right, I forgot RPG's haven't been proven to be successful or enjoyable on a videogame platform. Spo, thanks for reminding me of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Low bitrate MP3's have proven to be successful and enjoyable as well; that doesn't mean people looking for great-sounding music should use them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brand X
Are you really trying to argue that videogame RPG's cannot possibly offer a great and enjoyable experience?
I'm stating, pretty clearly I thought, that a limited copy will never be as good as the genuine article. If you're looking for roleplaying you're going to get more out of pen and paper roleplaying (where no limitations exist and you're interacting with other human beings) than videogame roleplaying (where everything is limited to what the designers want you to do and you're interacting with computer code).
I'd rather shoot myself in the face then play a pen and paper RPG. You are no doubt in the severe minority as I'm sure there are plenty of other people that think so too.
Roleplaying with limits is still roleplaying. Even pen and paper RPG's limit your options and abilities so it can pose a challenge to your characters fighting NPC's. Video game RPG's have a pre-set pool of skills to use on a pre-set pool of NPC's...man, that sort of sounds like a D&D guidebook.
Shit, I can't believe that someone is still having this argument in 2007. I also can't believe that anyone is arguing with SpoDaddy in a MS-exclusive game's thread.
I can't believe it's not butter.
Pen and paper is just as limited, if not more so, to the designer (ie... "Dungeon Master") of the world and the encounters in which you are playing. At least a VGRPG has dozens of minds behind the experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
You know what's great, there are so many great games coming out now and they span a TON of genres, it's not all FPS'es this go round. It'll clearly expose everybody's preferences, because objectively all of these games are great.
Now we just need a genre-defining sports and racing game. Although you can argue that Dirt is incredible, it's almost a genre all its own, and PGr4? meh.
Seriously though, you've got the adventure-platformer,fps with prime 3, bioshock with story-based fps, and cod4 and halo 3 with the pure action-cinematic fps's with solid multi.
Mario - pure platformer
Assasin's - Sandbox platformer?
GTAIV - pure sandbox (isn't there a mercenaries sequel coming out too?)
Mass effect - Western-style RPG.
JRPG - ?
Racing - ?
Sports - bleh lol.
Party - Rock band, SSBM.
Music - GHIII, Rock Band.
Pure fighter - ?
I mean these games are all great, if you don't like them it really says more about you than the game.
A pen and paper RPG is not limited to the encounter; the encounter is just a rough guide to how things will probably go. If a player goes outside of the parameters of the encounter the person running the game improvises new parameters to accomodate the action. You can't do that in a videogame because the parameters are set in stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru
What are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by epmode
Could you stop ruining this thread please?
Seriously, the majority of people here could care less about pen & paper RPG's vs videogame RPG's. Hell, if anyone cared about pen & paper RPG's in general there would be at least a single thread about them, but there isn't.
That would be an incredibly fun thread to troll.
I love P&P RPGs. I also love CRPGs. They are two different things. There are no CRPGs that give you the potential to do absolutely anything, like P&P RPGs can (if run by a good DM). There are no P&P RPGs with the depth and complexity of advanced CRPGs like Planescape Torment. Even if you did make a module out of the game, it wouldn't work nearly as well in P&P format. As a specific example, could you imagine EVER working through the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon in a P&P RPG? Unless you have some amazingly intelligent people, there's no way the discussion could ever approach the quality of that in the game. Even the best roleplayers aren't consistent enough to pull that sort of thing off. In fact, I'd say that true roleplaying is easier to do in CRPGs - the constraints placed upon your dialogue options prevent you from acting out of character, which is a constant issue in most P&P RPGs.
Going back to Mass Effect, when was the last time you had an action-based combat system in a P&P RPG? I'm willing to bet on never, unless you were part of a very insane V:TM LARP group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
Spo's idiocy continues to amaze and entertain.
I play Changeling with friends sporatically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brand X
Yep, I admitted it.
I just finished Eden Prime, and this game is seriously fucking awesome. Getting the handle on all the powers and equipment was a bit overwhelming at first, but once I got back into my BioWare groove, it was all butta'.
I don't think I'll be getting much sleep tonight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
OH NO, I MISSPELLED A WORD!!!!! HOW HORRIBLE, I MUST BE A COMPLETE MORON! NO ONE EVER MISSPELLS A WORD WHEN TYPING QUICKLY!
OMH! Yoi arw am idipt. Hoq coild yop mispelk s worf>Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
K enough about that. Spo if you don't like Mass Effect, then don't talk about it.
I'm loving it at the moment.
So far the line that takes the cake is... (and yes I'm ad-libbing)
Me: You shouldn't blame yourself for what happened there. They're robots, they don't make noise, they don't breathe, you couldn't have known you were gonna be ambushed...
Girl: They have Flashlights for heads sir.
yesQuote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
noQuote:
and entertain.
You're a complete moron for so often not understanding the world around you. Your constant misspelling of words is just a minor symptom.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbobb
I should have known better than to talk shit about videogame storylines around here; for that I apologize. I had forgotten how many TNLers use videogames as a form of literary edutainment.
This coming from the guy who is almost never right and gets ultra defensive if he's ever challenged.
Nice.
Got any examples to back up either of those assertions or are we going to just keep going in the "you're an idiot!" circle some more?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thief Silver
Tomorrow at work after I handle issues there I'll do the digging since you haven't gotten the hint after most your posts someone tells you you're wrong and why.
But you've been better lately, enjoyable even. Then you came in with this random nonsense.
Seriously, WTF?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
#1. I often don't understand the world around myself... How the fuck do you come up with that? Because I've disagreed with you in political threads? You've got to be fucking kidding me.
#2. Misspelling words while typing (hey guess what shit happens) is a symptom of not understanding the world?
I honestly don't know what world you're inhabiting, but would you kindly stop spreading your stink all over this one?
And on topic. Why exactly can't videogames be good literary entertainment? Shit the story in Beyond Good & Evil and KOTOR were better then 75% of the shit Hollywood throws out every summer, and also better then every bestselling novel by shitty writers like Dean Koontz.
I'm sorry if you have the intelligence of a 7 year old down's syndrome sufferer, but personally I like the fact that games are moving towards having intelligent stories and characters. Don't worry, Nintendo will keep right on making dumbed down shit like Excite Truck for you to enjoy.
i played a good hour or so.
Im trying to pick up all the controls and options and commands. My biggest complaint is just the cover system, it isnt clicking with me like how Gears and Uncharteds cover systems have, i keep wanting to press A to go into cover. I absolutely hate how while in the sniper scope its as if shepherd is drunk and cant keep the damn thing still.
overall, i wish it didnt come out at this moment in my life cause i have to focus on school, i want to keep playing.
How are the team mates handled in this game? Are there mercenaries scattered all over the landscape who you actively have to seek out in order for them to join your cause (like Shadowrun) or are there just preset groupies who hook up with you as you progress through the main story?
i believe its both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbacca
Spo's mastar plan to overload teh database!Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoDaddy
Preset groupies.Quote:
How are the team mates handled in this game? Are there mercenaries scattered all over the landscape who you actively have to seek out in order for them to join your cause (like Shadowrun) or are there just preset groupies who hook up with you as you progress through the main story?
Pump yo sniper stat yo.Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Ri
Drew: There are just preset groupies who hook up with you as you progress through the main story - but they're all pretty interesting.
Couple random thoughts:
- This game is fucking awesome.
- This is where RPGs should've been years ago and what I've been wanting for like a decade in terms of gameplay.
- LOL at the cover system in this doing everything better than Uncharted, which also means it's actually useful.
- I wish the responses on-screen matched closer to what Shepard says, as I've been thrown off a few times by what appeared to be the intention compared to what actually happened.
- I'm a little annoyed that I keep getting in conversations where my intimidate option is grayed out even though it's currently maxed. Stop giving me stuff if it's not yet possible for me for to do it right.
- At first I was a little letdown by just how KOTOR the level layouts appeared to be (tiny areas that feel very videogame and not like I'm actually exploring an area) but the more I pushed on the more I was impressed. I'm six hours in right now and the multi-leveled areas with no separate loading screens are making my fears vanish.
Could be because of your class?Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
Your charm/intimidate max is limited by class? That doesn't make any sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by mannerbot
Well, I don't have the game in hand yet so I don't know about this specifically. However, it would make sense for a warrior class to have higher intimidation than a biotic or whatever the spellcaster class is.
Those dialogue options are based on both your Intimidate skill AND your Renegade points. Be more of an asshole and you can, well, be more of an asshole.
Ah, alignment makes sense too.
Charm and intimidate are just extra options when you talk to people (plus a bonus at buying and selling in shops), they have the same possible maximum as you go up in levels and you pick how you want to act. At least, that's how it's been in previous games and that's how it's acted so far in ME.Quote:
Originally Posted by mannerbot
Ah, okies. I've generally been an asshole unless it meant turning down a mission, but I guess the few middle of the road choices I've been doing have hurt me.Quote:
Originally Posted by bVork
I see. I was thinking of how it is in Planescape: Torment, where your intimidation is dependent on strength.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
This starting city is ridiculously huge. I figured I'd at the very least have control of the Normandy by the time I had to go to bed. Not even close. (Then again, I listen to all of the codec entries and conversations)
Good game.
I'm getting pretty annoyed by the combat in this game. Maybe I'm just trying too much to play it like a 3rd person shooter, but it just feels way too clunky. Also, what is with my team running around like a bunch of retards even when I tell them to go hide somewhere and stay? There are seriously worthless. Also, is anyone else getting tired driving around the same planet but with the different coat of paint?
Other than those complaints I am enjoying the game. I loved exploring the first major city.
EDIT: After getting past the part I was having trouble with and letting the anger subside, the combat is that bad. Having someone to cast throw is a major need when that are so many people in one room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitan
isn't, you mean?
This is some crazy shit. I don't know what else to say. Everything takes practice to use and understand, it's overwhelming at the start. I'm really digging the dialog, it's head and shoulders above everything else out there. The last decision I made before I shut it off cost someone their life...
Yeah bVork is right - as your renegade and paragon levels increase, you unlock blocks in their respective personality traits on the stats screen.
Also, I've found that by getting the weapon achievements (Kill 150 enemies with X weapon) you can choose to have that weapon skill added to any new character you roll, off the bat. So, I can now roll an Adept with Snipers unlocked from the word go. Pretty cool.
Yes. In fact, I was doing the combat all wrong. Now that I know what I am doing, I am wrecking fools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowutopia
Random thoughts on the game after six hours of playing:
- The first game this year to get me to do the "holy shit, it's WHAT TIME?!" spit-take
- The first game on 360 where I turned off all notifications while playing.
- A full manual or a full in-game tutorial. Please include one or the other.
- Your party members seem to be retards when it comes to using powers. I ended up disabling their automatic usage entirely and now control all of that myself.
- Combat is good once you get the hang of it. Harking back to point #1, it would have been nice to get a detailed run-down on how it all works.
- Wow. I think this is up there with Assassin's Creed for most amazing animations around, but with a completely different focus. AC had amazing movement animation but poor facial animation and conversational motion. ME goes the other way, with absolutely amazing conversational motion but generally average movement animation. I can't imagine how long it took to animate everyone's conversations. All the characters you talk to look and act so... real.
- It seems like a typical BioWare game, which is both a good and a bad thing. It has the usual massive amount of quests and fantastic dialogue. On the other hand, it has terrible menus. And what's the deal with BioWare's aversion to stable framerates?
- The music is amazing. I must buy the soundtrack. It's halfway between modern orchestral and Vangelis-style synth.
- The Mako is fun once you stop trying to drive it like a Warthog.
- Holy shit, this galaxy is huge.
I'm liking the game, but it's disappointing to see Bioware still can't do setpieces worth a crap, for the most part.
Case in point: the Bar. It looks like any other area in the game, with a little more neon and some dancers. You get to the owner, who's been talked up as this lowlife scum for a good bit, and turns out he just looks indistinguishable from any other standard human NPC (but for some SCARS ON HIS FACE, omg) and has an office as bland and featureless as any given hallway in the game. You're supposed to be busting this seedy underground player but in the end, it felt like you might as well be taking down an accountant.
It's a good think I played a little Assassins Creed last night, because I may not touch it again for a while.
My favorite thing so far, is that you gain experience for talking to people in depth. Which means I'm progressing my character while also progressing the story. More games should do that.
So basically you're saying that Bioware should make more games.
Basically this game sounds like it's alot like Bloodlines, with better combat.
I just popped a boner.
Yes and No.Quote:
Originally Posted by mannerbot
They make amazing games, but if they upped the pace they all wouldn't be this good.
IBTN, i read this and went "wow bacon is being over dramatic" and sure enough the bar was just that. The NPC was just that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon McShig
IT seems every menu has its own odd button configuration, i had to reload the autosave because i accidentally reduced my Med Armor upgrade II into medi-gel.
I've been meaning to play Baldur's Gate for a long time, but this might force my lazy ass to.Quote:
So basically you're saying that Bioware should make more games.
Planescape: Torment imo.
I heard this game sucked because it's not as flexible as a pen and paper RPG. Any truth to that?
Pen and paper sucks, me and my buddies are real into LARP, which is where it's really at. On Tuesdays I get to be a hot underage succubus. I like Tuesdays.
Torment was Black Isle. And yes, if you dig deep conversations, and gaining experience for taking them in certain directions, that's your game.
For some reason I always thought that when Black Isle folded, most of the staff went over to Bioware. Oops.
Maybe some did. I think most are at Obsidian. Neo or Frog prolly know the full details.
There's a few ex-Black Isle guys at BioWare. Also a few at Pandemic - My mate Scott who was a writer / designer on PS:T is now lead designer on Mercs 2 :)
Nice. :tu:
So damn, they really open up a lot of shit to you when you get a ship.
It's like I can do fucking anything I want to and go to more places than I can comprehend at this point.
So I died and tried to load an auto save and then it disappeared and now I have to start a new game after playing for 3 hours.
They can't be fucking serious. There aren't multiple auto save files? I'm really going to have to start this entire fucking thing over?
God this is bullshit.
I played for 3 and half hours, watched this fucking piece of shit auto save a million god damn times and it didn't create a secondary save even fucking once? I have a career, that tells me what level I am and how long I played but there isn't a fucking save that goes along with it?
WHAT THE FUCK BIOWARE?
Suck it up and be a man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
But for reals, ya that sucks balls. I have had that happen to me a few times years ago in other RPGs. Some I started over, and others I said fuck it.
If this game wasn't so good I would have said fuck it, but the story was just starting to get awesome and I want to see where it goes.
At the very least I can skip conversations and make up time a little faster.
When you enable auto save it tells you that it is going to overwrite the last save every time. Not sure if it does that if you do it manually.
And if anything else, you now know where some things are and when shit happens so you can play better. Also you may have decided you shouldn't have been leveling up certain attributes, so now you can do everything even more the way you want now that you know how most things work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
Holy shit this game is good.
I am going to do things a little different this time around. Instead of leveling up weapon attributes I don't need I'm going to save my points and dump them all into charm as soon as I become spectre and then do two of the side quests I did but this time select the options that used to be grayed out and take them further.
Why didn't you save manually?Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
i dont think he shoudl have to, why cant the game do the oblivion style autosave so when the posbox DREs or what have you, you havent totally lost everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Good thing im an ADD saver
Oblivion had a manual save option too, and having it only gives you more options. What's wrong with that? It's even more important when you're worried about DREs.
It auto saves every time you enter a new area, but sometimes I spend a WHILE in one before I leave. Also, I like to be able to save before I do something vital, and the auto save doesn't always do this.
Because I didn't think there was any reason to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melf
Now I make a new save every time I do anything important. I have 100Gb of space on this drive, I'll make 1,000 saves if it means I don't go through this again.
Side note: I made it to the same spot I was at, minus on ten minute side quest, in about an hour. It's fast goings if you skip conversations and quick travel where you need to go.
I don't recall Oblivion (or any game) having multiple auto-save files. I remember it being one auto-save file that keeps getting over-written. But then again, it's been a while since I've played it.
HL2 had two auto saves.
It was nice, the few times I auto saved myself into a big mess I could just use the other one to jump back a few minutes earlier.
Yeah, manual save often. I've had to replay a few sections because there were no autosaves at all for long stretches of play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannerbot
This game reminds me a lot of KOTOR in that it gives my Xbox dirty disc errors.
That shit happened to me today. I finally managed to log in over 4 hours of playtime (doing numerous side-quests), FINALLY managed to achieve Spectre status, made it to a planet of my choosing and land. When I die thanks to a Maw then try to reload my game, I end up with a black screen with my character hopping like a one-legged idiot in the middle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
I usually always keep at least 2 different manual saves current, like within a few minutes of each other. The one time I don't do it and this happens.
I don't have this problem since I'm rather paranoid about my saves and will probably have like 30 when all's said and done. :lol: This game is pretty glitch though, I've had a bunch of menu hangups and one instance where my character was just floating in the air. Luckily everything so far has been fixed by saving and loading.
I tried saving and loading, with no dice.
I'm only like three or four or five or some shit hours in. But I <3 this game.
Looks like I was in luck. My save that was maybe 2 hours behind it wasn't that hard to catch up on. This time, I'll be keeping more than 1 save file current.
For all RPGs, I rotate three manual saves, overwriting the oldest one as I go on. Seems to work for me, especially when I'm an obsessive saver.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammadeau
Same. Actually, I'll rotate through ten or more depending on the game, and how many slots they give me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammadeau
But you certainly shouldn't have to because you're scared of the autosave corrupting. That's lame shit. And I highly doubt BioWare shipped ME unaware of this problem. :td:
wrong. ALL companies pull this shit. there is no more playtesting or QA before games ship anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Compass
Had a good sitdown with this this morning, got a few assignments done and and became a specter and saved that blue lady (forgot her name)
So far so good.
Naturally, considering that games are in no way any more complex than they used to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyne
After more playtime there are two things I really want improvements on (and the latter may be coming later on for all I know): Their attempt at adding melee attacks is half-assed and useless, and the Mako needs better controls and a gun that actually deals some damage. Aside from that I'm loving this.