Oh shut up.Quote:
Originally Posted by maruchan
Rhydant and I are correct and you know it. If I moved to Canada and spent all my time talking about how America was so awesome I'd be told to move back too.
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Oh shut up.Quote:
Originally Posted by maruchan
Rhydant and I are correct and you know it. If I moved to Canada and spent all my time talking about how America was so awesome I'd be told to move back too.
I've seen plenty of crappy looking Calvin stickers where he's praying under a giant cross or taking a piss on a Darwin fish. If I were to put one on my car that had Calvin taking a piss on the Confederate flag my car would have a brick thrown threw the window, easily. If I do it back at them because I don't support the propagation of ignorance I've broken the law just as much as them. Are you trying to say that it's not a crime for them to do that to you? Because if so that IS wrong. But I'm going to need to see some precedent before I believe such a glaring double-standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydant
You're free to be pissed, and you're free to want them to leave. But if you truly believe in the principles of free speech and freedom to peaceably assemble then they have just as much right as you do to express their beliefs. It's a system that can be hard to live with at times, I can tell you I feel the same way as you when I see a Klan or Neo-Nazi rally. Yet, even the most vile hatespeech is (or atleast should be) just as protected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydant
You know someone who'll take all the trouble to become a US citizen just so they can be just as unemployable as the rest of the uneducated population? Remember, if they're citizens then they're entitled to minimum wage. As long as they're illegal workers they can be paid slave wages under the table. Once again, it's the corporations that are really pulling the strings and it doesn't take some vast conspiracy theory to prove it. You just follow the money trail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydant
If your beliefs are anti-american you can just suck a fuck.Quote:
But if you truly believe in the principles of free speech and freedom to peaceably assemble then they have just as much right as you do to express their beliefs.
Free speech shouldn't protect those assholes.
Actually, yes it should. That's the point of speech as an inherent freedom. And who the fuck are you to decide what is and is not American? Who died and made you fucking King of the USA? Oh that's right, no one. You know who uses that 'anti-american' line? Assholes, that's who. If you don't like what these people say, debate them on the facts, not horseshit like "I'm the better American because my moms shat me out here, lol."Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
The entire purpose of free speech is to protect unpopular speech. Protecting speech that everyone agrees with is useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opaque
You're missing the point. They can scream and shout all they want. Free country, etc, etc, etc. The point is, that they hate the USA and they love Mexico. Yet they live here and refuse to be sent back to their motherland. They would rather walk a hundred miles in the searing desert than live out their lives in their poverty-stricken homeland that they love so so so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Again, if they love their country so much, THEN THEY CAN GO BACK.
I have no problems with immigrants as long as they:
- Learn English
- Are GREATFUL that they've gotten this opportunity to live here
- Get a Green Card
- Pay taxes like everyone else
Really, its not that much to ask for.
But they're not citizens, thats the point.Quote:
You know someone who'll take all the trouble to become a US citizen just so they can be just as unemployable as the rest of the uneducated population? Remember, if they're citizens then they're entitled to minimum wage.
Sure, but if they work here, they're going to live here. Which means they'll raise families, and get benefits without paying for them.Quote:
As long as they're illegal workers they can be paid slave wages under the table.
What money trail? You fucking show it to me. Corporations have nothing to do with this because THEY CANT HIRE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. You have to be documented (at least in the state of California) to collect a taxable paycheck from any business.Quote:
Once again, it's the corporations that are really pulling the strings and it doesn't take some vast conspiracy theory to prove it. You just follow the money trail.
So what are these illegal immigrants living off of then? Are you saying that in California none of them do any kind of work because they can't 'legally' get a paycheck? Hmm, I guess Tennessee has some real innovators in that the agra business, industry, and cleaning companies pay them sub-minimum wage under the table payments that aren't taxed or recorded. I guess all the growers there must use fairy magic or something to get their harvests picked since they can't give illegals a paycheck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydant
I mean, it's utterly unthinkable that a corporation would BREAK THE LAW to have cheap labor. It'd be completely unprecedented in history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhydant
If they're going to naturalize, then no it isn't. But what if they're just here for a job that they can get money for to send back home? Surely they should be taxed since they're taking advantage of services, but why should a guy who is working as a janitor for a cleaning company have to go through the whole citizenship process just to make enough dough to send back to keep his family from starving to death?
And as for being 'grateful', fuck you. This is the same logic that says that criticizing the government is unpatriotic or un-American. That people who do so are 'ungrateful' for the freedoms they've been given by the blood of those who've fought to defend them. You're missing the point, if it's the freedoms that they died for because they believe in them then anyone who exercises them IS honoring their memory.
EDIT: As a fun aside for those of you who have training in critical thinking, try to pick out the three (by my count) possible formal fallicies in the above statement.
That "illegal aliens do the jobs Americans won't" is a canard, they do the jobs Americans would do if the payment was proper.
I remember reading a Maddox article and he said the way to fix the illegal immigration issue is to enforce the laws and make sure ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS WERE PAID THE SAME AS LEGAL CITIZENS.
That way, there is no incentive for employers to hire illegal immigrants (except for some tax issues, but it wouldnt be worth the trouble if the enforcers were doing their job).
Without anybody willing to hire illegals, they wouldn't come here.
The jobs would then go to Americans willing to work for them, and the salaries would be at the market rate, not suppressed because of a near-infinite supply of 3rd world labor
Its a sad state of affairs when Maddox makes more sense than our entire fucking government.
I'll give it a shot. But I've had no training.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
1. This is the same logic that says that criticizing the government is unpatriotic or un-American. It isn't the same logic, ingratitude and criticisim are generally unrelated.
2. That people who do so are 'ungrateful' for the freedoms they've been given by the blood of those who've fought to defend them. freedoms given by those who fought to defend the freedoms gives an unclear origin to the defence and distiribution of said freedoms.
3. You're missing the point, if it's the freedoms that they died for because they believe in them then anyone who exercises them IS honoring their memory. Honoring, also, isn't equal to giving gratitude.
And he's funny sometimes too.