No Burrito for You

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Originally Posted by g0zen

And there it is, IP's inner Stormfront bubbling to the surface.

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How do you expect anyone to take you serious when you talk crap like this? How can anyone believe that you've taken an intelligent and well rounded look at this issue when you attack others for trying to have some understanding of the different opinions of each group?

I'm not a hardcore conservative so their views are not mine. Just because I bring up my understanding of their views to bring some more diversity to the thread doesn't mean those views are my own.

Personally I want what is best for all parties involved. I'm not really sure what that is, but that is still what I hope for.

You really need to quit riding my balls about this shit. I'm not your redneck neighbor, your redneck coworker, or those redneck kids that beat you up as a kid. Just because I don't loathe them like you, doesn't make me one of them. Quite taking your personal life problems out on me.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

What doesn't make sense? I'm saying that Japan and other industralized nations are more accomodating to English speakers than we are to Spanish speakers.

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How does bringing English speakers to Japan to teach English equal being more accommodating to English speakers? They aren't doing it for the benefit of any English speakers that are going to Japan, they're doing it because Japanese people can't pronounce English properly unless they've grown up around it, thus aren't fit to properly teach it.

And if you're saying they are accommodating simply by teaching English, every high school (and many junior highs) I've ever seen teaches Spanish.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

And if you're saying they are accommodating simply by teaching English, every high school (and many junior highs) I've ever seen teaches Spanish.

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In Japan?

What purpose could someone in Japan knowing Spanish possibly serve?

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Originally Posted by Jester

LOL wrong. In a poll of 25 countries for ESL understanding, Japan came in 24th. Japanese people don't speak English worth a shit and it's compulsory for 6 years (soon to be 12). You're full of shit. As was Gozen a few pages back when he said Japan and other industrialized countries accommodate English more than we do Spanish. Check out engrish.com for your accommodation.

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Absolutely true. No offense to her, but my girl did two years of English-specific college (not even counting all of the years of English pre-college), and my Japanese ability after a year of living there (with about a month of quick cram "give you enough to survive" class) is equal to if not higher than her English level.

The problem, as I mentioned in my reply to gozen, is that your typical Japanese person can't pronounce English worth a crap, yet they're the ones often teaching English. Plus, I'm not sure that the classes are always really meant to actually make you and English speaker, but instead allow you to say that you took English and can speak it (even if you can't). There's also the problem of then not having other people to speak English with, partially because Japanese people are often far too nervous to actually attempt to use their English.

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Originally Posted by Jester

LOL wrong. In a poll of 25 countries for ESL understanding, Japan came in 24th. Japanese people don't speak English worth a shit and it's compulsory for 6 years (soon to be 12). You're full of shit. As was Gozen a few pages back when he said Japan and other industrialized countries accommodate English more than we do Spanish. Check out engrish.com for your accommodation.

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Why don't you actually try reading what I wrote? Did I mention schooling? I was talking business, and in terms of business, the best foreign firms out there aren't taking away American jobs by doing it in their own language. They're doing it by LEARNING ENGLISH. Your common Japanese person may not know it, but the ones who are dominating the electronics and auto businesses do.

And if you want to point to the internet for English domination, go check what it was 10 years ago as compared to now. There are many more multi-lingual sites than ever and that's only going to increase. The fact that the internet is mostly in English has more to do 80% of the world's servers being in North America than people just loving to speak English.

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Some people in European countries speak English well because it's easy to learn for some Europeans and important in the current global economy. Asian countries can barely speak their own messed up languages and seem to have a new dialect every 2 feet. The real world isn't the stereotypes that smarmy Eurotrash posts about on internet message boards.

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Asian countries like Japan, China, and Singapore, which are suddenly causing us competition? Gee, and they only did it by learning a second language.

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Originally Posted by Shidoshi

The problem, as I mentioned in my reply to gozen, is that your typical Japanese person can't pronounce English worth a crap, yet they're the ones often teaching English. Plus, I'm not sure that the classes are always really meant to actually make you and English speaker, but instead allow you to say that you took English and can speak it (even if you can't).

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This happens right here in Puerto Rico. You have non-native speakers teaching it, which fucks up the pronunciation of everyone who learns. Of course, people here read, write, and understand English. They're just afraid as hell to speak it. And this is right in America's backyard.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

In Japan?
What purpose could someone in Japan knowing Spanish possibly serve?

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No, here in the States. Since I don't understand what he's trying to get at, I'm saying that he can't be making a big deal about Japan teaching English, because we teach Spanish on just a widespead level. Maybe not as a mandatory class, but it's there.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

So really, saying you want a "national identity" is usually hidden speak for an exclusively white, probably British-type society. Its also something racist Stormfront types say a lot. Except it's bullshit and has never existed.

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BS. We, as Americans, have an identity beyond the cultures that we came from. Of course we don't have that one core background that everybody comes from, like many other countries, but from that there certainly has been created a singular American culture. Are you saying that Americans and Canadians are no different? Just because we don't have a core set of beliefs, traditions, or whatnot doesn't mean there is no American "culture."

I think, in saying that people should come here and become part of our culture, means that when you come here, stop using things to divide yourself from others and instead become part of the bigger whole. Nobody is saying that you have to give up who you are or where you came from, but stop using those things to divide yourself from other Americans while also trying to claim that you're an American yourself.

It's like a potato wanting to be a part of the stew, but not being willing to let itself be peeled, cut up, and mixed in with the rest of the ingredients.

I also don't like the tone here saying 'Bush Camp" I know alot if not all hate Bush. Yet a majority of the Demoocrats are in support of the HR bill. That's why the Arlen Specter rebuttal proposal was in limbo. It was a Senate split 51/49, Not sure now. I think The Specter one is gaining popularity.

It doesn't matter really at this point. Whatever happens happens at this point. The Day w/o Immigratants happened and nothing really changed, except at my center I had alot of Latinos paying their bill and complaining that they didn't rent any porn. Yet they did.

As far as language goes I agree with both sides. We let this go for too long and now we have to adjust. YET, I agree with Shidoshi. If I go to Russia I have to learn their language out of respect for the country. If I just get off the plane and walk around saying "WTF does that say?" They would lable me a rude american and probably cuss at me in Russian. Yet here in American we have gone Above and Beyond what we sould have done.


If you say your American, march cause its your RIGHT, and demonsrate by buring the Amnerican Flag. Then be an american. Go through the channels no matter how Fucked up they are ... which they are. And be legal. I did. Funny ting is when you apply for citizenship you have 4 years to lean the pledge. Three more if you can't speak english. Two to find a job.

I'm not sure if they changed that. But also about two immigrants here in USA, and give birth to child. Last time I remember I thought one had to be a citizen for the child to be a Citizen. I could be wrong. If so I will accept the torture thats about to befall me.

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Originally Posted by WTFer

Lebanese

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Wow, people are starting to remember facts about me now. :lol:

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

American "culture."

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http://www.wildonesonline.faketrix.c...-hamburger.jpg

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

I think, in saying that people should come here and become part of our culture, means that when you come here, stop using things to divide yourself from others and instead become part of the bigger whole. Nobody is saying that you have to give up who you are or where you came from, but stop using those things to divide yourself from other Americans while also trying to claim that you're an American yourself.

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I feel this line of thinking could lead to other dangerous thoughts akin to Hitler's reasons for exterminating Jews, blacks and gays. America is not supposed to be a homogenized, singular identity as you had mentioned and encouraging others to put aside the things that make them unique (you express it as 'dividing yourself from other Americans') defeats the purpose of coming here. The same argument could be applied to political opinions, of which we have many in this country, religions, sports teams and types of pizza for crying out loud. Should we all just band together and have one political ideology, exclusively practice Christianity, root for the Yankees, and only eat DiGiorno? (Silly, I know.) We can justify it by saying, "Nobody is telling you to put aside your opinions and etc., but stop using those things to divide yourself from other Americans..."

There is no good solution to the immigration problem. By "good solution," I mean that there isn't one which will acknowledge the humanity of the people we take advantage of while still protecting the businesses of our country. If we say, "Tell us who you work for," naturalize all the illegal workers and fine the hell out of the companies, Americans will complain about the high prices of the things that illegal workers did for so cheap. It also would probably have a negative impact on the economy.

If we get tougher on immigration and close ourselves off like many of you participating in this thread want to do, we are denying other human beings of basic things like good health and nutrition. I believe diffx mentioned something similar earlier: are you guys okay with knowing your government is letting people die and letting them be taken advantage of by their employers?

I also disagree with the sentiment that Americans shouldn't have to do the jobs that the illegal workers do, for two reasons. First of all, it's saying that we are too good for those sorts of things when nobody on this planet is too good to clean a filthy bathroom stall or pick strawberries all day in a hot field. Second, if they are here doing those jobs, in my mind they are Americans regardless of whether the government acknowledges them as such.

That being said, when the 405 was practically empty on Monday morning, my heart sang.