No Burrito for You

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

Yeah, but it was a lot harder for those people to get into this country than it is for the Mexicans, who live next door and didn't have to suffer horrible conditions on some shitty overcrowded boat to get here. There's a reason Hispanics are (or at least soon will be) the nations largest minority group.

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1. Haven't you ever watched a TV show on how immigrants get here? Have you ever driven through the Mojave? It is nasty. It is a brutal, deadly, trek.

2. Irrelevant anyway. The point is that the privileged citizens of this country ALWAYS make a big fuss and whine when a bunch of minorities come here and set up shop. The citizens always act like it's their country, that is being invaded, and the government needs to stop allowing it.

Yet they keep coming, and we always end up the better for it.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

Fixed. Can we please stop calling them "immigrants," because they aren't, and that's a slap in the face to everybody who came over here properly.

That's the part of all of this that bothers me - not them coming here for the jobs, but coming here without going through the system properly and then thinking they have a right to be here. I know a lot of people who have had to work really hard to come to the U.S. and then stay here, and I've got a girlfriend who I currently can't live together with because she isn't a citizen yet. Why in the world should some people have to put a lot of time, money, and effort into doing things the right way, and others be able to just say "fuck it," sneak into the country illegally, and then demand to be made citizens?

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You know what? I have total sympathy for the illegals these days. Immigration is a mindnumbingly slow, fusterating and a total exersise in bureaucratic masturbation. Forms get lost? To the end of the line. Form arrives late for any reason (most often due to processing), end of the line, interviewer feels that you're not making intergration progress? End of the line.

If my parents, and family weren't middle/upper class citizens in Lebanon they wouldn't have the education or means to endure a decade of interviews, screening, useless paperwork and humiliating scruteny. And this was in the 1970's, 80's, and 90's for my mom, dad, aunts, uncles, cousins and what not. The fact that my parents got in aided in everyone else comming through quicker.

Now if they were poor guys doing the manual labor bullshit jobs, I doubt they would have the time or patience to bother. They had a degree of job flexibility that allowed them to stand in line all day when they had to check in.

I cannot imagine what an immigrant has to get in post-9/11. I remember when they made the call for native Arabic speakers to apply to the FBI. Gods my dad was harassed and pissed on by the "recruiter." My dad speaks Arabic, English and 3 other languages fluently.

The process is broken.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

I don't know about you, but my ancestors didn't get a green card before they immigrated here. Nor did they file for citizenship papers when they arrived. They were just here; working, living, etc. By your logic, that means I shouldn't be a U.S. citizen.

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Yup. I'm coming for you. Come along quietly.

I don't know the situation or how long ago your family came here.

As far as the situation, they took a boat from the Netherlands. They were actually not very bad off financially, so it wasn't like a hellish ride or anything. I don't see how it should matter how long ago. An illegal is an illegal right?

Look, I'm not trying to be a bastard here. I'm just trying to get you to examine the logic of your thinking that people who're born here shouldn't automatically be citizens. How else can we determine citizenship?

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

1. Haven't you ever watched a TV show on how immigrants get here? It is a brutal, deadly, trek.

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I know. I just said that in the post you quoted. I didn't mean to make it sound like Mexicans can just skip through a daisy patch and be on U.S. soil, but I'd say it's much harder for someone from another continent to get here.

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Yet they keep coming, and we always end up the better for it.

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Can't argue.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

I don't see how it should matter how long ago.

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Just curious if we're talking several generations where your family has intergrated itself here, or if you guys just snuck in last week.

Any reason why they never bothered to get green cards/whatever?

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

Just curious if we're talking several generations where your family has intergrated itself here, or if you guys just snuck in last week.

Any reason why they never bothered to get green cards/whatever?

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They came in not long after the Revolution into New York and sold shoes for about 2 generations before moving south to Virginia. They never bothered with the process because back then there was no process. People just came and set-up shop.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

I also like how Republicans, who loathe social welfare programs, decide to try and become their biggest champion when they find out people 'other' than white, native born, Americans are gaining access to them.

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White people on welfare should starve too. Being a worthless piece of shit crosses racial boundaries.

Integration has always happened fast with all ethnic groups and its happening fast now with Hispanics. The Bush Cult likes to talk about them like they're walling themselves off from everyone else but its pure BS.

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Originally Posted by Melf

As long as they become legal citizens, they should be welcomed.

I think that before we all knock the millions of illegal Mexicans working in the U.S., we should take a look at all the American businesses employing millions of illegal Mexicans. There's a reason they're coming over here in such vast numbers, and it ain't the water.

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Agreed wholeheartedly. If there was a country I could easily enter illegally (with no penalty) and recieve higher wages than I would in my own country, I'd do it. The popular angle that the central issue here is that people are taking our jobs is a complete myth, the fact is that American businesses are the ones dangling the carrot here, they're the ones that are actively turning low-skilled jobs into a mercenary, lowest-bidder wins type proposition.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

I'm just trying to get you to examine the logic of your thinking that people who're born here shouldn't automatically be citizens. How else can we determine citizenship?

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My logic is fine. If you're the kid of legal citizens (or people who are in the process of becoming so), then you're legal. If your parents are illegal, so are you. It may not seem fair but by your logic everyone regardless of skills, criminal history, whatever, should be allowed to come here, procreate, and automatically enjoy the benefits their kid gets them.

I don't know, I have a good friend that went through a lot to become a citizen here and it really burns him when people don't go through the proper channels like he did. I can't blame him for being pissed, becoming a citizen was a big deal to him.