I just almost killed my brother

So part of me is really wondering why I'm actually posting this on TNL at all, but I've seen you guys help other people with this shit so I'll ask you.

Basically, my girlfriend and I let my 21 year old brother move in with us hoping it would do him some good. He was basically sitting around at my moms house doing nothing but being a slob and playing World of Warcraft 24/7, so we thought it would help him grow up a bit. We have a 3 bedroom house, and we let him use the spare room to keep his computer in, etc, in addition to his bedroom. We don't make him buy his own groceries, don't care what he does with his bedroom, etc., his only responsibilities are to keep the spare room clean and neat and pay his rent.

Well, for 6 months the room has been so we can't walk from one end of it to the other. Literally: he has a desk backed up to a table with his PC backed up to a chair backed up to a couch, wall to wall. The room was absolutely vile with trash and dirt and shit everywhere. We've asked him nicely in passing for the last 6 months to do something about it. And he bounced his rent check. (he also hasn't had a job).

2 weeks ago my cat developed a respritory problem. The vet told us it had not become a serious problem yet, but it would if we didn't take special care to dust, clean the house, etc. We explained all this to him and told him we were serious now, it had to be done. And today, when it still wasn't, I told it him it had to be. I asked him nicely to simply move his stuff out of the room long enough for me to sweep and mop it. He responded by screaming for me to shut the fuck up and leave him alone. So I kicked the table with his computer on it across the room and left to go cool off.

Couple hours later, I hear him on the phone telling someone how I threatened him and so he was going to move out and not pay his rent. I then noticed all his shit was in his car, etc., and he wrecked the living room. I kept cool and explained to him that if he dicked me over on the rent like that, I was going to redeposit the check he bounced, etc. We went back and forth like this for a few hours, all the while him screaming about how I threatened him with violence (which I never did).

Then he fucked up, and threw the phone onto the couch. Where it happened to hit my dog. And thats when I snapped and took his ass down. Now bear in mind, in retrospect I really don't think he meant to hit the dog, I don't think he would ever harm her. But when I saw that something broke in my mind. My girlfriend ran down and distracted me enough that I got ahold of myself before I really hurt him, and then I looked and saw a kind of fear and hurt in his face that I have never seen before in my life. Ever, on anybody, and I've hurt plenty of people in my life.

So after I dealt with the cops he called, I then got a call from my mom asking me what the hell was wrong with me, how dare I attack him, how dare I threaten him with this bounced check all this other shit, etc.

So now I'm about to be unable to pay my rent, have to deal with all this other bullshit,etc. None of which I can afford to deal with right now. But what bothers me the most about all of it is I'm completely heartbroken over what I did to him. It's like I broke something inside him, the look on his face is like I've hurt him forever in some way, and I feel like I'm, I dunno, less 'good' and can never be as pure a person ever again.

So should I just let him walk away, decide he wants to move out (on the day rent is due) or should I not let him screw me over?

I'm not understanding why he deserves any sympathy or understanding.

Boot him out and redeposit that check and fuck up his life just as much as he's fucking up yours.

If he agreed to pay rent and take care of his shit then it's his problem, not yours. He has decided to fuck over his kin so he gets to deal with the consequences. Talk to your mom about everything he's done, how he attacked your dog, neglected your requests to help the cat, and then ask her to pay his rent if he's not going to. If he's not even trying to find a job then there's no excuse and he's a worthless piece of shit (at least as far as this is concerned). No matter what go ahead and bounce his check again, if he can't take care of his own shit and isn't man enough to bother asking for help then fuck him. Let him try to pick up his own pieces.

Regardless of whatever, kick him out. I don't recall what the law is but there's a certain amount of time that has to pass before you can toss someone's shit on the lawn. Find out what that is and start a countdown to yourself. Let him leave because the situtation will only continue.

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It's like I broke something inside him, the look on his face is like I've hurt him forever in some way

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No shit, he didn't expect you to actually call him on his shit. On top of that he now gets bitch rights for the rest of his life to always fall back on, so consider it a lost cause and let it go. Personally I don't think you need to apologize because you did it in retaliation to him hurting the dog, and whether or not he meant it he should've been paying attention to what he was doing. Some people may disagree with me, but that's where I stand.

Get the rent however and boot his ass is really what it comes down to. If he can't take care of his shit then let him figure out how to deal with it on his own, obviously staying with you isn't helping so letting him be there longer will only lead to more rent arguments and more bullshit.

Yeah man, throw all of his shit outside and tell him to fuck off.

He wrecked the living room? To what degree?

Someone acts like a general ass for months, wrecks my living room, and pelts a phone at my dog (intentionally or not), I'd snap.

There's nothing here to make you less of a person.

Have a chat with Korly.

Seriously.
It's not your responsibility to take care of the dirty motherfucker, and it sounds like you've already put up with more shit from him than you should ever be expected to.

The guy has no job and no responsibility and yet he can't even keep one fucking room clean? That's fucking pathetic. It sounds like he needed some sense knocked into him.

Buttrape him. It's the right thing to do.

I had some advice, but I got distracted be omfgninjas in iraq's sig, I'm still laughing at it, actually.

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Originally Posted by Tain

He wrecked the living room? To what degree?

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Well, he didn't wreck it in the sense of smashing shit up (like I thought he did at first). Basically, a bunch of my games, dvds, and shit were on a media rack of his, and he dumped them all on the floor, and all that shit, and took the entertainment center so the tv, xbox, etc, is just sitting on the floor. It's a wreck in the sense of being a big ass mess.

I should also mention after years of trying to get him to, he finally just enrolled in school and is about to start classes, so part of my reluctance to boot him is there. And he did help out a lot when Maggie and I were in dire straits financially earlier this year. And in fairness to him, he has been looking for a job (although he's not very good at it, getting and applying for a job once a week at 2 pm and shit and not really following up well), and working part-time on Saturdays.

Maybe its time the real world hardens him. It isn't your job to be his parent. He is an adult now, whether he acts like a kid or not.

Let him be on his own for a while then say you are sorry for calling him on his shit.

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Originally Posted by Vasteel

thats when I snapped and took his ass down.

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Meaning what exactly. Did you punch him? Kick him? Wrestling takedown?

I don't mean to be a dick, but I'm having trouble visualizing the scene. Specifics plz.

Yes. Specifics. Did you pummel him? Did you choke him?

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Originally Posted by omfgninjas in iraq

I'm not understanding why he deserves any sympathy or understanding.

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Exactly.

I guess sometimes I'm not a sympathetic enough guy - I say if the guy isn't trying to do anything with his life, or at least help out, kick him to the curb and let him ruin his life. There's only so much help you can give a person, simple as that. If they want to be helped, then by all means help. If they just crap all over your giving them help, then screw 'em, you tried.

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Originally Posted by Master

Meaning what exactly. Did you punch him? Kick him? Wrestling takedown?

I don't mean to be a dick, but I'm having trouble visualizing the scene. Specifics plz.

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I did sort of a shin/foot stomp to knock him off balance (he's a good bit bigger than me) and went for a punch, but he tried to double leg me. I just kind of backed up and grabbed the back of his head, he kinda wrestled me around (still had ahold of my leg) and went to punch me in the nuts, I got his wrist, flipped his chin up, took him down with my knees in his solar plexus and an elbow across the throat. I was about to hit his throat when my girlfriend stopped me. I still held him there for a minute.

I have to wonder on just how many of you cold ass bastards are only children.

I have two lazy fucking sisters and I understand perfectly Vasteel's current confusion. This isn't just some "guy." This is his BROTHER, F A M I L Y. And not only will this change his relationship with his brother, but most likely his mother and other family members. He is going to have to hear about this for forever, from everyone.

Anyway, Vas your brother sounds like a big puss. He has lived with your mother way to long and picked up way to many "girly" ways of thought. I also have to wonder if you aren't telling us something about his mental health. Your brother sounds like someone with serious depression issues.

I hope for your sake your mother has had a Dog, and knows just how great they are. I'd try to get her to understand how much stress you are under, and how much you care about your brother and that is how this all got to you. Something along the lines of you felt that he was throwing his life away and becuase you care about him so much you just freaked out.

As for your brother, I don't know. He sounds like a puss with depression issues. He is probably going to act like a little girl and not want to man up and get over this shit between the two of you. He will probably either hold a grudge and talk shit to your mother to get pitty and fuck up your relationship with your family if you don't let him stay, or you can let him stay and he will keep being nasty and taking his sweet time getting a job.

I don't see this just blowing over because if your brother was the kind of man that delt with this stuff in the right way, you wouldn't be having this problem in the first place.

But whatever you do, try to fix things with your mom. You don't need her being an ass or a bitch.

I have three younger siblings, and Vasteel did way more than I would have done. Being family doesn't excuse being a deadbeat and a failure at life. In fact, and I'm speaking for my own situation here, it makes it worse. I know that my siblings went to good schools and didn't have to worry where their next meal was coming from or any of that stuff. If they fucked up the opportunities they had, they earned whatever happened to them.

I doubt I would have let any of them move in in the first place, because it's hard as shit to legally throw someone out. If I did let someone move in, I'd keep one hell of a detailed record of when and how they fucked up, so that if this kind of thing arose, they'd be SOL.

There are two lessons here. What Vasteel did was not only justified but too generous... and don't fuck with Yoshi.

edit: And I'm not even going into what I'd do to someone who hurt any of my animals.

Yoshi, are you Ted Nugent in real life?

Sounds to me like you did what you needed to. That look on his face after it happened was pretty much what it looks like when your mind is blown straight out of your ass. He never thought you would do that, or anyone for that matter. Maybe it was a wake up call? What happens next may decide that. He may have no concept of responsibility (I have a friend like that and it's aggrivating to no end, he's a little better now after an incident, but he's got a long way to go).

It's important to keep the communication up with everyone, don't let any wrong information or lies get out of hand. I know you feel bad now, but what's done is done, the best thing to do is try and get things moving in a positive direction again.

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

I have two lazy fucking sisters and I understand perfectly Vasteel's current confusion. This isn't just some "guy." This is his BROTHER, F A M I L Y. And not only will this change his relationship with his brother, but most likely his mother and other family members. He is going to have to hear about this for forever, from everyone.

Anyway, Vas your brother sounds like a big puss. He has lived with your mother way to long and picked up way to many "girly" ways of thought. I also have to wonder if you aren't telling us something about his mental health. Your brother sounds like someone with serious depression issues.

I hope for your sake your mother has had a Dog, and knows just how great they are. I'd try to get her to understand how much stress you are under, and how much you care about your brother and that is how this all got to you. Something along the lines of you felt that he was throwing his life away and becuase you care about him so much you just freaked out.

As for your brother, I don't know. He sounds like a puss with depression issues. He is probably going to act like a little girl and not want to man up and get over this shit between the two of you. He will probably either hold a grudge and talk shit to your mother to get pitty and fuck up your relationship with your family if you don't let him stay, or you can let him stay and he will keep being nasty and taking his sweet time getting a job.

I don't see this just blowing over because if your brother was the kind of man that delt with this stuff in the right way, you wouldn't be having this problem in the first place.

But whatever you do, try to fix things with your mom. You don't need her being an ass or a bitch.

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What Vasteel did was above and beyond. There definitely comes a point when you cant be nice anymore and have to throw the shit out to the sidewalk - and at 21 I wager that that point is long gone. IF you are out and living on your own and your parents dont like what you are doing TS. Just because your parents will continually give charity to a worthless bum of a sibling doesnt mean you have to, or keep being nice.

And Im not an only child.

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

Yoshi, are you Ted Nugent in real life?

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No, if I were Ted Nugent, his show on OLN would involve shooting welfare recipients instead of animals.

Your brother is the one that needs to apologize.. If he's so shocked about you trying to physically hurt him, he should soon realize his own fault here. In that way, it's a good thing you shocked him a bit and did something radically different.. You needed some way to tell him that what he's doing is just pure bullshit.

And hitting the dog w/ the phone was of course an accident, but having a temper-tantrum before throwing the phone like a little spoiled kid.... well, there's no excuse for that.

Vas, you did the right thing, and you may face some heat for a little while, but people will eventually realize that your brother needed a wake up call.

I'm not going to excuse you for attacking your flesh-and-blood, however, I do completely understand why it happened.

See here's the problem, you're a nice guy. Ever hear that saying "Watch out for the quiet ones."? You've just experienced why. Quiet people tend to be extremely passionate, protective, and flat out dangerous without even knowing it. We bottle shit up instead of venting it and all it takes is one trigger to make all that pent up shit explode.

You put up with this bullshit for 6 months and you wonder why you snapped? I can't to talk too much because I've done the same thing when trying to help someone. You don't want to give up on them because you care about them and want to see them get better, but at the same you keep wondering why you are so stupid because your generosity and kindness are being totally taken advantage of.

There has to come a time when you say enough is enough. If the boy were fifteen or so I'd say you may have to seek outside intervention, good intentions are no substitutes for professional counsel. However, this child 21 fucking years old. There is no excuse for being a fucking deadbeat at that age.

Think about this, do you think anybody in the real world would have done anywhere near as much for him as you have? Fuck no! Two months tops and he'd have been on his ass before he knew what'd happened.

He's your brother, he's your blood, but he's also an asshole. You can love an asshole, but you don't have to like them. It's time for reality to kick your brother in the balls. You do him nothing, but a disservice by letting him believe this type of shit is an effective life skill.

Let him struggle and talk to your mom to quit coddling him. He who spares the rod hates his son.

EDIT: And regarding his look of fear and confusion: Don't let this shit bother you. It's long past time for reality to intrude upon your brother's psyche. He hurt someone you care for (intentional or not). If he'd punched your girlfriend in the face would you have stood there, shaking your finger disapprovingly?

The boy needs to understand that every action has consequences, good or ill.

More importantly, DON'T let him use this as some spectre to hang over your head. If you weren't his flesh and blood he might very well BE dead right now.

I agree with Mo7. Wow, that sounded weird.

My brother is a royal fuckup and I've had to deal with his drunken friends trying to get into my room, his parties destroying my property and the consequences involving police and huge family fights. You can hate him for all the dumb shit he does, but he's still your brother. You're going to feel bad and try really hard to think of all the little things that will make him seem better and try very hard to ignore his mistakes. Don't do it. If you give him major sympathy and overlook his serious errors, he's never going to change. Unless he actually takes responsibility for the shit he does he is -never- going to get better.

My brother hit me once when he was drunk/stoned when I said I was going to call the police if he didn't get everyone out of the house during a party he had. It was not even a hit, just a little slap sort of thing, but it scared the shit out of me and I cried like hell, and it made him snap. He got everyone out of there and tried to apologize for two months before I got over it. He's also tried and failed to do college, hold actual jobs, move out of the house, etc., and never done anything with it. His entire life is a fucking joke up to this point. I just found out he's enlisting in the Marines (he backed out from the Reserves two years ago) and you know what, I'm terrified. I absolutely hate him, but he's family.

Get your family involved, as it sounds like your brother will be impossible to reason with without some neutral third party. Don't get defensive if your parents side with your brother and just try to explain what your brother has all done and how you feel. If you keep at that with and without your brother around, somebody is going to listen and your brother is going to have to sit down and not act like a child. Don't blackmail him with a bounced check and don't go on some great revenge crusade to make him seem horrible to everyone you know. Do shit that will help him get better and make him take responsibility for what he's done. If he broke anything that belonged to you, find a way to make him replace it. Get him to pay the rent, etc. If you have to involve other people to talk him into it, whatever, but it has to be done or else he's going to stick with his story of you being some threatening bastard so long he'll think it's real.

Good luck, seriously. It fucking sucks having shitheads in the family that you care about too much to kick to the curb, but that's what a lot of us get stuck with. My brother has caused -so- many problems in our family and my dad still doesn't even have the heart to tell him to move out. Hard to deal with people you care about.

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Originally Posted by Vasteel

I did sort of a shin/foot stomp to knock him off balance (he's a good bit bigger than me) and went for a punch, but he tried to double leg me. I just kind of backed up and grabbed the back of his head, he kinda wrestled me around (still had ahold of my leg) and went to punch me in the nuts, I got his wrist, flipped his chin up, took him down with my knees in his solar plexus and an elbow across the throat. I was about to hit his throat when my girlfriend stopped me. I still held him there for a minute.

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It sounds to me like you put him in his place without really hurting him.

I'd say get over it. He probably needed it.

It also sounds like you are more afraid of what you could have done, not what you did.

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

I also have to wonder if you aren't telling us something about his mental health. Your brother sounds like someone with serious depression issues.

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Yeah, I did leave this part out. The dude has some serious manic depression and obsessive-compulsive disorders.

Seen this situation happen before, judging by the some of the stories told around here sounds like alot of people here have.

He's deeply depressed, in a rut, can't really help what he's doing.

That doesn't make it right or okay. He deserved to be shoved around a bit if he's telling you to fuck off in your own home, ripping you off and throwing your things at your pets. He still bears responsiblity for how he deals with his situation.

Basically, don't feel bad for him. He's stuck in a world of his own self pity, and trying to get you to buy into it - that's why he's trying to send all these guilt waves at you. He feels helpless to change, so he thinks that somehow frees him of responsibility - like it's not his fault he ended up like this because he couldn't do anything about it. If you let him off the hook, you're enabling him to stay in it. He's so lost he's willing to essentially steal from his own brother and lie about threats, because deep down he doesn't feel capable of facing the things he needs to do in life.

He's still your brother, so burning any bridges won't do any good, but he needs help, and probably not from you.

If it still somehow falls to you, take his freaking computer away, let him stop masturbating long enough to grow some balls and living in WoW fantasy land long enough to face reality.

But basically, he needs to be grounded in reality - a job will give him some self repsect back, though obviously it's not easy to get him to go down that road. A girlfriend will give him some energy and self esteem, but then if that was easy for him he wouldn't be in this situation.

But just because it's hard doesn't mean it doesn't have to be done. That, along with physical activity, is the road out of his situation. Try getting him to go to a doctor - maybe there's a physicial ailment contributing to his situation that he's unaware of - sleep apnea, fibro-myalgia, chronic fatigue. Or maybe he's just unhappy.

Either way, he doesn't have the right to make you miserable just because he can't figure his life out. Stand up for yourself, tell him where to go, and then, very, very politely, tell your mom where to go as well. Remind him that he's still your brother, that you still care about him, but that you're not going to be used like a doormat either. That just creates a feedback loop of both of you being unhappy.

Damn, when I started reading Vasteel's first post and saw that it was serious, I thought he really almost killed his brother.

I'm glad you didnt,man. Sounds like you just beat the shit out of him a little bit, and that's probably what he needed.Everyone here has given honest and thoughtful advice so I have nothing else to add except that any one of us here would definitely have done the same if not worse in your situation.

I cant believe that the rest of your family wouldnt sympathize with you on a situation like this though. It sounds like you and your girlfriend went out of your way to make a home for your brother and give him a new chance at life, and he just squandered it. If anything that hurt look he gave you was him realizing this.

Dont apologize to him at all either, I think you and your gf deserve his apologies if anything...

He's stuck in a self fulfilling prophecy that he's never going to have a happy life, and he's certainly not going to let his older brother help him. He's playing you as the villain to get sympathy from Mom, who will then let him mooch rent free and play videogames all day. He's either going to wake up one day and be like "I'm ashamed that I'm this old and doing nothing, I want a real life", wake up one day and be like "I'm 30 and have no life, time to shoot some heroin", or get tough love now and not have to learn the hard way.

He should get nothing he doesn't pay for. No internet access, videogames, nothing other than food and water. He'll get a retail job out of boredom so he can buy fun stuff, realize how much retail sucks cock, and go back to school so he can do something with his life.

Don't be upset with yourself about the dog thing. I'd have done the same thing if anyone, family or not, threw a phone at my Beagle. Hurting dogs calls for beatings a lot more severe than the one you gave your brother.

That hurt look on his face was shock; shock that his life has come to this. Don't let him slide back into his comfort zone of WoW and bounced checks.

I say cut through all the sappy shit and boot his ass to the curb, tell your Mom if she really loves him she'll make him act like a goddamn man and not an infant. Then remind her that you're her son to and taking sides like that is bullshit. After he's gone, forget about him. Let him come crawling back to you when / if he gets his shit straightened out and apologize to you like a man and then forgive him. Don't let him become a parasite on you anymore than he already has. Don't let him win by gnawing at your insides over shit he drove you to after you showed infinite patience. Shit, I'd say you should have given him a worse ass-beating.

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Originally Posted by Vasteel

Yeah, I did leave this part out. The dude has some serious manic depression and obsessive-compulsive disorders.

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I thought so, and this really fucks shit up for you. A lot of the advice in this thread, mean or not, depends on your brother being a rational normal sane person. It is all fine and good to say "kick him to the curb, he'll snap back and get better" about a sane person, but it doesn't work that way with people who have serioius mental illiness. I don't know the guy, but the fact that he openly lives in his own filth, then gets bitchy over you asking him NICELY to clean it in YOUR house speaks volumes about his priorites, self-esteem, and ability to think logically.

I really hope he isn't as bad as he sounds and he can be talked with about this and will figure out that you only snapped because his life does matter to you. But you haven't made him sound that way.

I really feel for you when it comes to your mother. It sounds like he is the small mentally ill baby of the family and you are the older, smarter, should know better son. It's going to be hard for you do damage control on that shit since they already pitty him and treat him like a baby to make him being a fuck up seem ok in their minds.

IMO things you should do by the end of this

1) if his mental health doesn't improve, don't let him live with you. He is only going to bring you down and you need to do what is right for you and your woman. I don't live at home because of this kind of shit. I have two sisters and a mother (crazy because they were born with vaginas) and all they did was take up my precious time with trival irrational crap. It was always something, and it usely came up when it came time to study.

2) talk to your parents and maybe him about seeing someone for his depression. First with someone to talk about his problems, and if it that doesn't help, later with someone that will give him some meds. He needs to get his head out of his butt and start thinking like a rational man. Otherwise he is just going to keep fucking up like this. Oh and don't pitty him over this. Pitty is just going to contribute to his little depression parade. I'd try to be stern and helpful. Don't be nasty, but also don't baby him.

But getting his head in the game is very important. He needs to do that before any of TNL's tough love tactics will help. Otherwise he will just twist shit around in his head and miss huge obvious things like he's an ass and needs to grow up.

There has been a lot of good advice in here about how to deal with your bro, but it sounds like he's not the only one with a problem. You should really think about your temper, and how it made you react in a way that you are now not comfortable with. It's good that you have recognized and regret it, now do something so it doesn't happen in the future. You probably do have to be mean to your brother, and there will be more harsh words in the future, but you can't allow yourself to flip out like that. You both end up looking bad. As the older, more responsible brother, you need to be firm and level headed.

I'm really surprised Kidnemo hasn't come in here and challenged Vasteel to a fight.

Anyway, make your Mom pay for everything that came about as a result of your brother. The vet bill, etc.

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Originally Posted by Calliander

I'm really surprised Kidnemo hasn't come in here and challenged Vasteel to a fight.

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The thing is, is that I've been in a lot more fights then most people, and I'm pretty good at it sadly. I've worked as a bouncer for while and I've fucked a few people up really bad, but even though I didn't hurt him physically at all really, there's just something about it that sticks in my craw in a way that nothing else ever has..

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

I thought so, and this really fucks shit up for you. A lot of the advice in this thread, mean or not, depends on your brother being a rational normal sane person. It is all fine and good to say "kick him to the curb, he'll snap back and get better" about a sane person, but it doesn't work that way with people who have serioius mental illiness.

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Yeah and it does. The problem is that he knows people will aqcuiesce to it, so he milks it for all the miles he can instead of doing something about it.

And I can relate to the problems in dealing with it- I'm clinically mentally ill myself. But I have never asked for nor recieved (or even expected) any type of special treatment for it. I just deal with it- I've learned clean living and getting off your ass is the only way to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by SpoDaddy

Don't be upset with yourself about the dog thing. I'd have done the same thing if anyone, family or not, threw a phone at my Beagle. Hurting dogs calls for beatings a lot more severe than the one you gave your brother.

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No doubt. and if it had been anyone else who had hit my Beagle (best dogs ever, btw) they would have. Actually, it did happen once and they had a medical bill and I spent the night in county but I had no regrets then. I guess part of it really is that I know in my heart that he would never even consider harming an animal- whatever else he may be, I've never known a person with a more gentle heart. Thats why I feel so bad.

Don't feel bad.
What you've done for him here will probably be much better for him than the sympathy he gets from everyone else. Just make sure your family hears both sides so that he doesn't just milk the situation with them.
If he's your guest in your house, and he tells you to fuck off, and then messes your house up, and assaults your dog, he's got it coming to him.
Like it's been said, he should have had this coming to him a lot sooner.

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Originally Posted by Vasteel

I then got a call from my mom asking me what the hell was wrong with me, how dare I attack him, how dare I threaten him with this bounced check all this other shit, etc.

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I got the impression that your mother's been sheltering your brother from this statement.
If true, this could be worse than you think.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

tell your Mom if she really loves him she'll make him act like a goddamn man and not an infant.

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For serious. Too many parents shelter their children to the degree where they can't survive in society. My family does this quite often, and I'm only coming out of it now, myself.
I don't know how your mother raised yourself and your brother, Vasteel, but if she's as bad as this whole situation makes this sound, you mighty want to start fixing this yourself. Therapy works wonders and can be a good kick in the crotch to people who sloth themselves through life.

There's nothing wrong with being lazy and unmotivated as long as you don't make it someone else's problem, which your brother clearly has.

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The problem is that he knows people will aqcuiesce to it, so he milks it for all the miles he can instead of doing something about it.

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That's his problem right there. He has no incentive to change if what he's doing works. This is something that can only change if everyone he's dependant upon stops coddling him.

As some one who has anger problems (just a tad) I hear where you coming from. every now and then I flip out at my sister and my whole family goes "wtf." lots of repressed anger. family shit.. sucks.. you have my sympathies. I try to do the breathing thing.

as for the what do i do now question.. talk to you mom. be like "yah, that was fucked up, but you know what? this and this and this is what he did. I was just trying to help him out and he does all that. what would you have done in my place?" and if she was like "blah blah let him get away with it blah blah" call her on her bullshit, and ask her how your going to make rent now. if she's sympathic and understanding regarding your situation, ask her what she thinks you should do now, about rent and how to deal with .. that shit.

Personally, if it were me, I'd sit him down and say "You said you'd pay rent. You need pay rent. You need to keep your word. Then you can move out. I was not threatening you; I was telling the truth. I have responsiblilties to my landlord, to pay my bills etc, and you told me that you'd do all this stuff and you havent. pay the rent, be a man. " Of course, i'd probably end up smacking him around again.

Brothers need to fight sometimes. I'm glad i have a brother to yell at me when i mess up. That's much better than when it's someone you don't know. I don't know what to say about the rest.

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Originally Posted by Finch

and then I looked and saw a kind of fear and hurt in his face that I have never seen before in my life.

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Ahh, what a feeling.

Your brother sounds like a worthless turd, but this whole situation was your fault, Vasteel. You allowed him to turn your spare room into a shithole and take advantage of you for months, which all boiled up to the point where you guys got physical. It's your fucking house, you should have put your foot down day one.

And frankly, I don't see how allowing him to mooch off of you instead of your parents was going to "help" him grow up anyway. Let the piece of shit take care of himself.

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Originally Posted by omfgninjas in iraq

I'm not understanding why he deserves any sympathy or understanding.

Boot him out and redeposit that check and fuck up his life just as much as he's fucking up yours.

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IAWTP

BTW, ninjas, :tu: on the Arnold/PS3 sig. LOL!

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Originally Posted by Vasteel

I did sort of a shin/foot stomp to knock him off balance (he's a good bit bigger than me) and went for a punch, but he tried to double leg me. I just kind of backed up and grabbed the back of his head, he kinda wrestled me around (still had ahold of my leg) and went to punch me in the nuts, I got his wrist, flipped his chin up, took him down with my knees in his solar plexus and an elbow across the throat. I was about to hit his throat when my girlfriend stopped me. I still held him there for a minute.

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Sounds like he tried to hurt you as much as you tried to hurt him. Ask yourself if he would have been as upset as you are if you had been the one lying on the floor with a "hurt and fearful" expression on your face.

I agree with the ones in this thread that say to tell your parents exactly what he did. I'm not sure what your realtionship was like with him up until this point, but family or not, you have to stand up for yourself.

Fuck, we tossed my father to the curb years ago, and to this day we still believe it was the best thing we could have ever done. Hopefully you and your brother can patch shit up before your relationship gets that bad.

Well guys, I want say thanks to all of you for helping me out and giving me advice on how to handle this shit. Here's the update if any of you care:

My pops just came up here and actually made him come out of his room long enough to talk with me about this shit and about what he plans to do (he'd shut himself up in there since all this shit went down). Basically I apologised to him for beating his ass (and I am genuinely sorry about that), but that was it. He still maintained a bunch of bullshit (and my mom and my other brother just want to believe his side of the story, and are basically being total felches towards me, so fuck 'em) but I just kept quiet about it, and when he asked me if "isn't that true?", I simply said "You know what the truth of all of this is. And I've already told nothing but that to anyone who asked."

My pops proceeded to tell me that how I dealt with it was wrong, and the next time I get riled enough to deal out an ass-whoopin, I better be ready to deal out 2 ass-whoopins, and I agree with him.

He then brought up how I was using his financial situation against him, and my dad called bullshit on him, told him he was acting like a child, and explained to him that he was just gonna run away from his financial obligations and fuck over me and my girl he'd better be ready to face the consequences.

I've decided to let him stay if he wants to, for a number of reasons (not the least being the price of rent). If he wants to leave, I won't do a thing to stop him, and he's more than welcome to. But I also had him sign a lease (something I insisted on when he moved in just as a CYA) and I have no intention whatsoever of covering his ass if he doesn't hold up his end of the deal. I'll just have my landlord go to small claims and get it from him herself.

I've laid out the terms of what is expected of him, and I will not ask him to do that. I've made it clear in no uncertain terms that if certain things aren't done I'll not say a word about it, I'll just give him a thirty-day notice of eviction.

Finally, I explained to him that I know a lot of what he's done (meaning stirring up the hive as he did and getting everyone riled at me) would probably be pretty embarassing if he backed down now. If he really feels unsafe or threatened by me (which I have my doubts about, and he doesn't have much 'legal' ground) or just is that pissed at me (more likely, IMO), then by all means, go. But if its just that he doesn't feel like he can back out of this and save face, then I think that would be a mistake, and it is not too late to put this behind us before anyone has any lasting consequences, but once that gets rolling there's gonna be no taking it back. The ball is in his court now.

Well i'm glad pops got in on this. Your brother needs to deal with a little of that family drama shit on his head.

Hmmm....interesting.

Mothers are just always like that with the baby of the family. Fuck that.

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Originally Posted by Vasteel

My pops just came up here and actually made him come out of his room long enough to talk with me about this shit and about what he plans to do (he'd shut himself up in there since all this shit went down).

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He's still there? And I assume he still hasn't paid you.

I would have sent his deadbeat ass home to momma by now.

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He still maintained a bunch of bullshit (and my mom and my other brother just want to believe his side of the story, and are basically being total felches towards me, so fuck 'em) but I just kept quiet about it, and when he asked me if "isn't that true?", I simply said "You know what the truth of all of this is. And I've already told nothing but that to anyone who asked."

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Should have called him a liar to his face right in front of everybody. No wonder your mom is taking his side, if you're not saying anything to contradict him.

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My pops proceeded to tell me that how I dealt with it was wrong, and the next time I get riled enough to deal out an ass-whoopin, I better be ready to deal out 2 ass-whoopins, and I agree with him.

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I don't understand. Is your dad saying if you fight your brother again, you'll have to fight him next? If so, that's pretty stupid. You bro deserved an "ass-whoopin." It really sounds like your parents baby this prick. No wonder he seems to have no concept of responsibility.

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I've decided to let him stay if he wants to

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Big mistake.

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

He's still there? And I assume he still hasn't paid you.

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No, he did fork over the cash. I'm certain he borrowed it, but that's for him to deal with.

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Should have called him a liar to his face right in front of everybody. No wonder your mom is taking his side, if you're not saying anything to contradict him.

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If it had been my mom, I probably would have. My dad called bullshit on him without me having to defend myself- his own account of events didn't add up and he said it himself- my pops just called it like he saw it.

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I don't understand. Is your dad saying if you fight your brother again, you'll have to fight him next? If so, that's pretty stupid. You bro deserved an "ass-whoopin." It really sounds like your parents baby this prick. No wonder he seems to have no concept of responsibility.

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I know what you mean, the problem is that I've gotten into too much trouble getting into fights or just losing my temper in the past. Never mind the fact that this was all several years ago and I've grown up a lot since then, and this reasonably could be warranted- I'd just look like I was trying to cry wolf. When it was just the two of us, he told me that he said that (and meant it) as much for my own good, because when a person has demonstrated hot-headed tendencies like mine in the past, even when its justified I have little ground to defend my actions. I can only agree with him on this.

Mind you, he's not saying, "you better not beat his ass again no matter what he does." He's saying, "you better feel justified in beating his ass enough that you're willing to beat mine too." Pops did tell the boy to his face that he did bring it on himself, and that I could have done at lot worse to him, so he needs to get over it.

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Big mistake.

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Possibly, and even probably.
Like I've said, I'm done trying to get him to do shit, he'll either do them or get the boot (and part of this problem was because I kept trying to get him to do things, when kicking him out was all I really had the right to do). I wanted to be nice and not a dick by laying that ultimatum out like any other roommate would, and I see where it got me. I do think he got the message and if he didn't, he's out.

It is a two-way street as well- his being here does help a lot while I'm in school and saving up for a house- if it works out it can really help get me ahead of the game. If not, I'll just boot his ass out, no skin off my back.

I think when he realized that nothing his mommy could do for him was going to save him from the financial repurcussions if he wanted to be a bitch about it and run out on his obligations, that no matter how angry with me my family might get about it, I was going to nail him to the wall if he dicked me over, and that if I did it wouldn't even be anything personal, he had a reality check. Like I said, it's his choice to make now.

Well, good luck dude. Money/business situations are always tricky when you're dealing with friends/family.