Time for some more of that good ol' TNL advice

Wow, good advice actually CAN come from TNL. Well put, Nick.

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Originally Posted by Mykozo

Wow, good advice actually CAN come from TNL. Well put, Nick.

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Yeah, thanks a lot Nick, that helps a lot.

stop only listening to what you want to hear

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Originally Posted by stormy

stop only listening to what you want to hear

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I've taken everything into account and there was sound advice that I've definately thought about and will think about but I don't know, some people just seem a little cynical...anyways, I think we've just about done this topic to death, thanks for the words everyone.

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Originally Posted by Nick

My god, do any of you honestly go into a relationship fretting over what the girl will look like and what the situation will be "20 years down the line"? Think about what you're doing here:

You're telling a person to leave the girl he wants to be with and who wants to be with him.

Let them have their happiness together, let them support each other, whether the sexual component lasts twenty more years or twenty more days. It sounds like they are providing affection and solace to each other during difficulty times. The husband, the parents, the marriage, and the age difference are not exactly insurmountable obstacles, even collectively. (I'd say none of them matters worth a damn in the grand scheme of things, but I'd be afraid you'd all just jump on that sentence and ignore everything else I wrote in the post.)

Going on face value here, I'd say each of them is the best thing that ever happened to the other, and they have a lot of room to learn from one another and grow together. Everyone should have that in his life, because that type of relationship makes one a stronger and better-rounded person. You guys sound worse than the conservative parents because you're already talking marriage and old age and missing the fact that they are happy now and they are free to stay together for as long or short a time as they want.

The children are the only part of the deal that gives me pause, for two very different reasons: (1) If this turns out to be a short-term relationship and she goes on to someone else, the children will deal with shit from other people talking and from their own feelings. (2) If this goes on for long enough, Gohron will almost certainly have to deal with some drama involving jealousy and possessiveness. Joy at some point might get so comfortable that she subtly or even overtly starts pushing Gohron to be like a "true father" to the kids. It seems like women just don't understand that, for many men at least, another man's child will never come even close to feeling like your child. And they try to force these father-son bonds while just feeding resentment and opening wounds.

But if all parties are willing to make a go at it and learn together, I would not presume to tell them to run away from their feelings or even take a couple of months apart. They have a good foothold here, so there's no reason to jump off blindly. Joy has a man that seems to have her best interests at heart and Gohron finally has a woman that he feels deeply about. If you think she has issues because of two kids from two relationships (and I'm not saying she does - I'm playing devil's advocate) then why wouldn't you want her to stay with Gohron if the alternative is finding some more bad boys with some more weak rubbers? And if you think Gohron should just wander around looking for pussy with fewer strings attached, when he clearly stated that he finds little fulfillment doing that, then ask yourself if you think the same things that make you happy are the only things that can make anyone happy.

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All of this sounds fine and good in Make Believe Land which, in fact, doesn't exist. Forget about cynicism and all the conservative mantra that's being banded about here. Let's get really REAL.

Nick, you're forgetting the most critical component to all of this. This guy is NINETEEN years old - can you imagine yourself at nineteen with Mrs. Robinson, her two kids and two ex's who isn't divorced yet and barely 6 months into a separation? SHE is in no condition to make a sound judgment on a future relationship regardless of her attraction or good intentions. Separation and divorce can take YEARS to divest oneself from and to truly have a sense of self again. You and I certainly know this. I'm nearly a year (tomorrow) removed from my separation and I still have issues with it that aren't buried and might never be, completely.

Gohron is a kid. Sure, he can legally marry, father a child and even smoke cigarettes. Nineteen, in today's society, is still high school material wherein most in that age group are concerned with getting laid, getting high, and spending at least the next 4-6 years figuring out what they want to do with themselves. Unless I'm completely mistaken, the guy hasn't had to support himself or a house, much less a house with a woman and two kids that aren't his in it.

Yeah, "love" is the variable that defies everything. Friends, parents, TNL guidance counselors, and everything else. It can't be defined or have parameters and everyone's individual defintion of love is defined by what they think, not by what anyone else thinks.

The realism variable here screams that this isn't right and can't work long term and I agree that if anything can conquer that it's "true love". Equally, however, "true love" allows for freedom and waits for its return. Gohron should take a month or two off and remove himself from the situation so he can truly tackle it with the head that isn't attached to a sack of testicles. Even so, it might be too late for clear thinking already.

I'm not pissing on anyone's parade and for the sake of all involved, I really hope that it works out. Bottom line here is that she's not ready, he's not ready, and the kids already have a lot of shit to deal with without having a new man about the house - especially when that man is barely removed from high school. The mother should know better and if the two have to date and see each other then she should've hired a babysitter and done it discreetly.

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Originally Posted by stormy

stop only listening to what you want to hear

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I for one am not sticking my head in his broken asshole. You may be, but not me.

Yeah Gohron, are you really prepared in your life to be the father of two kids? To provide for them? Raise them?

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

I for one am not sticking my head in his broken asshole. You may be, but not me.

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Liar

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Originally Posted by g0zen

Yeah Gohron, are you really prepared in your life to be the father of two kids? To provide for them? Raise them?

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this is a good question. He isn't asking you if you are man enough to do it, but if you think this is really what will bring you the most enjoyment. Its ok to be a little selfish in how you answer. When it comes to love you gotta be a little selfish or you'll get used up.

Gohron, I'm sure you're a great guy and anyone would be lucky to have you (and I'm not even being sarcastic) but the safest road is probably the middle between the Nick approach end everyone else.

You've been through a similar ordeal with your own mother and while that's prepared you for this, it's also a good bit of why you're here to begin with and so gung ho about the whole thing. That's not anything to break it off over, obviously, but it's something you should probably try to face head on. It will mean something later more than it does now. You're 19. That doesn't mean you're an idiot but it does mean that you're going to have a lot of yourself to mull over and sort out in the coming years.

She's confused as hell. Like I said, great guy, all that, but that's a ten year age difference. You're comfortable, warm, NICE which is a big one up on the old guy. But along with that comes how she'll feel when it hits her that her new man is a decade younger, she has kids to take care of, all of the cliched bullshit (possibly bullshit, I don't know you) that people will use to tell both of you to run might catch up with her. Or you, for that matter. You never know.

At the start, these aren't HUGE things that you two can't get past, I know. Small things tend to fester and turn into huge, relationship breaking ordeals however and I mean the dumbest, tiniest things. These two things are relatively big for baggage to start your new relationship on. So, if you're planning on making this forever, prepare to deal with it once you get the old guy and her parents taken care of. If you aren't and you're just in it to be a mutual comfort "for now," just bail man. Be her friend, help her through but don't take it any further anymore and I say that for the kids. My ex is on her third live-in since me and I've seen first hand the impact it has on a kid over time. It has torn my son apart and he's absolutely sick of someone being introduced as permenant and gone without a trace a blink later.

Really, if you two can help each other, I'm all for this. But don't kid yourselves into thinking that the only hurdles are her parents and her estranged husband. If you're going to help each other, then move cautiously and be aware of what each of you is going to need help with.

And if you take ANY of what I have just said to heart and try to talk about any of it and she avoids it? Go. If she can't deal with it now, even just a touching base type of talk, Haoh's absolutely right and she's too damned confused to be making this kind of call. If she's aware of what she's doing, actually in love with you and ready to take it on, by all means, give it a shot. Just face the entirety of the situation with reality firmly in mind.

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Originally Posted by x2y

Her kids (the oldest is what 8-10?) hates or will hate you.

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You don't know that. The kids could totally dig him for all you know. They're almost the same age after all.

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Originally Posted by Nick

My god, do any of you honestly go into a relationship fretting over what the girl will look like and what the situation will be "20 years down the line"?

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If there's a chance of it going the distance, yeah. That's the way Gohron is talking.

And for a second time I agree with Haoh.