Time for some more of that good ol' TNL advice

I guess I might just need to vent a little bit or whatever so here goes:

I've been dating this girl for awhile, I think she's a nice girl, she's smart, she likes me, she's a hard-worker, etc. etc. but she's got her draw-backs. For one she's a bit older then me, for two she's got kids and for three she's still legally married to a guy but going through the divorce process and has been seperated for a good bit. How would I get involved in a situation like this you may ask? Well, she's actually my best friends sister whom I've known for a good bit, so her and I arn't exactly new to each-other. I'm not really asking for advice on the "older with kids" part, but I'll probably hear something, just be civil.

Some of the biggest problems involved here are the fact that I'm acquinted with her ex/estranged husband (or whatever you want to call with him) and used to hang out with him, I lived with her family for over a year and her parents. I've left it up to her to finalize things with her husband and sat down and talked with her when we first started things to figure out what the deal was there. The guy was basically a jerk that never ever spent time with her, soaked up all of her money when he all of a sudden couldn't hold a job after they got married, has a bad temper, didn't help her much with the kids, etc. so basically I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't "stealing" her from him even though I had a pretty good idea of what was going on.

Now, moving on to the parents, she lives with her parents because like I said, her marriage pretty much sucked all of her resources dry and she's trying to get back on her feet again, anyways... I was over with her today and her dad just came to me and said "What's going on with you and Joy? She's still married and it's not appropriate" so on and so forth and I kind of froze up and just said "I don't know what to say" because he caught me off guard but I was expecting to talk again soon. Afterwards we were down watching a movie and discussing what was going on, what to do, etc. and her mom came and told us to come talk upstairs.

We sat down and her dad started off and she kind've unloaded. She's obviously made some mistakes in her past and she's angry at her parents because they've been kind've judgemental about her (all of the kids feel this way to one degree or another) and she went on for awhile. I eventually kicked in and did some of the talking for awhile...now the biggest problem here and why her parents have a problem with this is that they're the conservative religious type and used a lot of "before the eyes of God" type stuff during this conversation. I told them I talked with my parents, some friends, etc. and said I really didn't think we were doing anything wrong simply because of a marriage liscence that obviously doesn't mean anything anymore but they didn't exactly buy it. After all was said and done they kind've gave the impression "This and this is wrong, we've said our piece now you make up your mind." At least that's what I think. They gave off the idea that she needs to handle her situation prior to anything occuring but we've already become pretty established in a relationship and her husband may not sign anything right away because he's come off as being pretty spiteful.

Anyways, what the hell do I do from here? It's obviously a pretty complex situation and you might want to say "You're only 20 years old, there's plenty of other tail to chase" but I've never really been interested in younger girls or girls my age and I've been pretty happy with this girl, as much as I guess I could be happy with somebody despite her draw-backs. Her parents have been very helpful to me when I needed a place to stay and get my life going but I don't think they're really thinking things through clearly because of their beliefs and as far as I can tell, that's really their only problem with the situation.

Basically my questions or topics where I'm asking for advice are:
-Her parents and how to deal with them
-Her husband and what to do if it comes down to the point where I have to deal with him
-The consquences, because of some of my friends being close with her husband and some of my other friends being also the conservative religious types
-Is it really worth it?

I spent a lot of time thinking about this and gathering advice from my dad, grandparents, friends, etc. before making a commitment to enter into a relationship and I knew there was gonna be hell to come along with it, but when it comes down to it hell in the future is a lot easier to deal with then hell in the present. My basic thoughts here are that I want to stick with it, deal with what I have to deal with and go from there. I don't think it'd really be fair to her to tell her I would stick with her and make the desicion to enter into a relationship and then back out when the heat got turned up.

So basically that's it, go ahead and say whatever.

If you are living under her parents' roof, you should respect their rules. Now, I did say "respect," not obey - meaning that you should continue in your committment to Joy, but this "a marriage license doesn't mean anything" argument is probably not worth pursuing.

If they don't want you kissing her on the lips in their presence or sleeping in the same bed with her because it is improper or offensive to them, I would advise you not to press the issue. The best way to win them over is to continue demonstrating your love to her modestly but unwaveringly. Then once the divorce goes through - or is accepted by them as truly being an inevitability, as the case may be - there is a better chance they will give their blessings to your relationship.

"Religiously conservative" or not, they most likely didn't appreciate her husband's behavior toward their little girl and are very worried about how the children will be raised. Maybe their fondest wish is for a reconciliation in the marriage, but if there is none and you are always there for Joy they'll be impressed with that, whether they let on or not. They want what's best for her, and if you're it, don't worry too much. Just behave yourself and pick your battles carefully. It seems strange coming from me, but I advise you to keep out of any religious or generational wars. Respect that they are coming from a place of love and they do seem to be giving you a real chance to become part of the family.

If you are respectful toward your lady and her children and her parents, you shouldn't have to worry about your friends, their friends, or anyone else's friends. They will see that the house is in harmony and will leave you alone. (Though, you can never stop people from sniping you behind your back with various comments and judgements.)

As for the husband, don't let him bully anyone in the house. Stand up for yourself and for Joy if it comes to that, but don't do it in front of the children if it can be avoided. Never say an unkind word about him or agree to an unkind word about him when his kids are within earshot.

Is it worth it? You tell me, friend.

Dude, fuck all that drama. Jack off to some good free porn and call it a day. ;) :lol:

In other words, unless you are fucking head over heels in love with her and think about her non stop, then I think it isn't worth it. Plus she has kids with her ex....ugh...that's just shitty and so many problems will arise from that.

and btw, remember, they are all nice at first and everything is great, then it gets boring and monotonous and goes downhill...how long have you been with her?

3 words....Friends with benefits....That would be the best way to do it. She has too much baggage.

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Originally Posted by kevincal

Dude, fuck all that drama. Jack off to some good free porn and call it a day. ;) :lol:

In other words, unless you are fucking head over heels in love with her and think about her non stop, then I think it isn't worth it. Plus she has kids with her ex....ugh...that's just shitty and so many problems will arise from that.

and btw, remember, they are all nice at first and everything is great, then it gets boring and monotonous and goes downhill...how long have you been with her?

3 words....Friends with benefits....That would be the best way to do it. She has too much baggage.

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Maybe giving kevincal vet board access wasn't a good idea...

My mom left my dad when I was young and had some fucker coming over. I wanted to kill that son of a bitch just because he was kinda trying to replace my dad, without even trying. So you might have to deal with something like that. :D

So kevincal is one of the kids? Then, yeah, get the fuck out of there fast!

run

she's fucked up from this,
her parents sound psychotic,
you don't want to deal with kids
you already got your nut

run

See I'm not that crazy. :D

It sucks that you are in this kind of drama Gohron. Religious conservatives can be hard to deal with sometimes. They just get ideas in their heads about stuff and there is no way to get them to change their mind.

I'm with Nick on this. He has given you some very good advice. It is kind of obvious but try to avoid fights or anything with the husband. You may go too far or something and make yourself look bad or get put in jail.

Its really up to you if this is worth this. Just going on she is a girl and has a vag, most of the board is going to say it isn't. More fish in the sea and all that. But we don't know her, or how you two get along, so whatever.

Hope it turns out for the best.

Wow. You got some tough choices to make, and I don't envy you one bit. Unfortunately, there really isn't a 'right' answer here, but here's my advice.

First off, I'm going to assume this seperation was fairly recent, and that you're the first guy she's been with since she left the dude. If that's the case, you should understand that you are in a rebound relationship and that there's nothing wrong with that, it's one of the healthiest and most important types of relationship- but you also shouldn't future or anything around that (speaking from experience). She really needs you right now, and really is too bad her parents are acting ignorant about it. It seems like her folks don't have any problem with you yourself, and know and love you. If you're close with them, perhaps you should consider going to them and talking with them without her being present, explain to them why you think it is important that you be there for her. Perhaps you could even talk to a clergyman (who often are surprisingly understanding about this type of situation) for advice on how to tackle the religious approach. If they don't understand after you do that, you'll have to choose to respect their wishes or continue to see her without their blessing, and either of those choices has negatives.

In any case, it is absolutely imperative that the two of you keep your relationship discreet. Absolutely no public displays of affection, I wouldn't let anyone know about it if I were you. I would even advise you to spend the night together as little as possible. Even if her parents are cool with you seeing her, it can be used against her in divorce proceedings/settlements, and worse, it seems to me this is the kind of dude who would act the fool about it one night. Seriously, I can't stress enough that this needs to be kept on the DL for now.

As for how to deal with the ex-husband, as hard as it is, no matter what he does, you have to stay out of it, and I'm speaking from hard gained experience here. No matter how pissed you get, no matter how bad you want to get involved, you can't. This is something she has to deal with herself- no matter how much you want to back her up, if you get involved you will only make things worse, for her and you. You can't succumb to violence especially, regardless of how hard he baits you. If he storms over drunk one night and makes a scene, trashes a car, even if he hits her- you have to resolve yourself to stay out of it and not go after him. Clench your fists and pound a wall till every one of your knuckles is bloody and broken, but do not retaliate. That kind of thing often ends with one person dead, another in jail, and no one better off. If it does happen, make her get a restraining order at once, but do not take matters upon yourself (and I know that's easier said than done). But don't do it, for your own sake as well as hers.

Put being her friend above anything else as far as a relationship goes- as far as the intimacy goes, I would approach it with some emotional detatchment. I would be there for her, be affectionate, and supportive of her (and she needs that from you) but also understanding if/when you guys do break this thing off down the road.

This thread is useless without pics. :D

You need to drop that shit and run, for serious. This will only end badly. Best to make a clean break now then later when shit gets seriously complicated. And as for the parents, tell them to fuck off. Not because it's appropriate, but because they need to be told that once in their lives by someone not related to them. The best medicine for preachy backwoods fundie assholes is a reality check.

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Perhaps you could even talk to a clergyman (who often are surprisingly understanding about this type of situation) for advice on how to tackle the religious approach.

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I find most of them to by hypocritical one-answer assholes.

My only advice to you is to watch your ass. The girl's still married, and has been for a while, so she might have more baggage than you even realize. I think it's cool to go with your heart and everything, but keep in mind that she might have a ton of unresolved shit that she isn't dealing with. I wish you the best of luck, but make sure you're not so close that you get swept up in the shit when it goes down.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

And as for the parents, tell them to fuck off.

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Worst advice ever. Saying something like that might make you feel cool on the internets, but in reality, it's just going to make things harder for a girl you care about who's already having a seriously fucking hard time.

No, you're right, you shouldn't really say that to them. However, you shouldn't pander to them entirely either. I've dealt with people like this before and I've seen how situations similiar to this have been handled by them. The fact of the matter is there is no way you can get on their good side here because 1.) They're idiots who think it's a 'sin' and 2.) There's children involved.

I agree with your own assessment that they probably would like to see a reconciliation, not even for their daughter's sake but for that of their grandchildren because they have preconcieved notions about the way a child should be reared that they are loathe to deviate from no matter the circumstances.

After re-reading your post and thinking a little longer about it, my advice is to get out of the situation. This is a volatile situation that could erupt at any moment.

It seems like your relationship is already out in the open, so any chance at keeping it between the two of you is probably gone. This immediately complicates things, and could have all kinds of repurcussions for both of you. There is also both her parents and kids involved in this already. It is bigger than just you and her.

The situation is also dangerous for both of you, and your description of the ex-husband certainly sounds like the type that would set shit off. You really need to watch your ass, jealousy usually trumps good judgement in these type of people.

And finally, what do you have to gain from this relationship versus what you stand to lose? I know that sounds shitty and shallow, but that really is a part of making mature relationship decisions. If it doesn't make both of your lives better, it isn't worth pursuing nor will it last. That doesn't mean you'd be not sticking with her. Stay in touch with her, be her friend, support her, and once she gets some of this shit worked out, maybe then give this whole relationship a shot.

Your situation sounds very similar to the move In The Bedroom.

The parents: Can you wait until the divorce is final? If the relationship is worth going through the hassle then its worth waiting for and the parents will respect that. If it isn't worth it then GTFO and stay friends with her if possible. She seems unstable enough.
The Ex: He's not your friend--if he's the asshole you say he is and reconciliation is out of the question then sever all ties.
The Friends: If they are truly your friends and they understand what jerk the ex is they will understand.


Both of you are consenting adults and can do whatever you want but you have to be ready and willing to face the consequences. Is this a serious relationship (could lead to a lifelong commitment) or a "let's see how this goes" kinda thing? Are you both emotionally, financially ready for a serious relationship. Ultimately you have to decide for yourself if the relationship is worth it.

I'm going to keep this real short and real simple:

You're 19, you've got years and years ahead of you to find the "nice girl", you don't know why they're separated divorced (and I don't give a shit what she says), she's got 2 kids and you're in for a world of hurt/responsibility/"real life" that you're way too young to deal with.

Move on and I don't care how "great" she is. There is someone better for you.

Advice from one who knows.

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Originally Posted by stormy

her parents sound psychotic

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Eh? How is telling someone not to fuck their daughter while she is married to someone else psychotic?

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Originally Posted by Nick

but I advise you to keep out of any religious or generational wars.

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I agree. I've been there and done that, and it didn't end well.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

And as for the parents, tell them to fuck off.

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I've also done this. While it felt good at the time, in retrospect it was a mistake and just caused more problems.

I'm going to go ahead and agree with the people who are saying that getting out now would be the smart thing to do. It would be the smart thing to do, but I remember how I felt about girls when I was nineteen. If someone had told me to leave a girl I liked, I probably wouldn't have listened. Some life lessons you have to learn on your own. On the other hand, I've never dated a girl that has had kids before, and that really complicates things. Getting out now really would be the smart thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Eh? How is telling someone not to fuck their daughter while she is married to someone else psychotic?

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Shutup conservative.

Saviour complex imo. I'm sure the girl is nice and all, but this is really too much. Cut the losses, keep friends, don't get deeper.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

I've been dating this girl for awhile, I think she's a nice girl, she's smart, she likes me, she's a hard-worker, etc. etc. but she's got her draw-backs.
she's a bit older then me
she's got kids
she's still legally married
she's actually my best friends sister
I'm acquinted with her ex/estranged husband (or whatever you want to call with him) and used to hang out with him
she's broke because hubby sucked her dry

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LOL. Those are some pretty crazy-ass drawbacks, dude.

Anyway, I know you don't want to hear this but you're 20, and 20 year olds easily get infatuated with girls, especially if they have problems or are hard luck cases. I think you see her in a bad situation and you want to take care of her. Believe me, at your age you should be concentrating on getting your life going, and not on some girl with a ready-made family.

Personally, I could never see myself going for a girl with kids. No matter what you may think, I don't think you could ever love someone's else's kid as much as you'd love your own. Plus, those kids will always tie your lives to her ex. Fuck that.

This sort of reminds me of this friend of a friend I know. He met a girl on a Manhattan cruise ship he's a chef on. Now, this guy isn't exactly the most trustworthy person in the world, and this story is a big reason why no one believes much of anything he says. Anyway, first, he glosses over her age. Then we find out she's 10 years older than he is. Then we find out she has a kid who's about 8, but that's supposed to be it. Then we find out about 2 more, both of whom are in their 20's (wtf). Then we find out one of her kids has kids, making her a Grandma. Wtf.

Thanks for the thoughts, like I said, I already made the desicion to not break and run and if that causes grief for me in the future, well it'll be a good lesson learned.

I talked to her earlier today and she had talked to her mom who seems to be completely ok with things now and said the initial reaction was just a bit much. The whole divorce thing is moving and despite her husband having a big temper, he's nothing to worry about. He's a nerd that goes out and spends most of his free time with friends playing table-top RPG's. I was really kind've distraugt with the way things went last night but they seem to have helped themselves out.

For those of you who've been asking, she's been seperated for at least 6 months and the marriage went sour over a year ago. I asked her about what happened but overall I saw most of it with my own eyes, especially after they moved in to her parents house. It was a lot like what happened with my parents. My dad made the desicion to leave my mom and got remarried and has had a great life but my mom hasn't quite left my dad yet (figuratively). This girl and her husband were only married for maybe 3 years, give or take a year. I know it just makes my situation look that much worse but her other little girl came from a previous relationship when she was my age. She basically said "the condom broke" and because of her family's religious views, abortion was out of the question.

Anyways, I've been happier with everything despite some of the little frustrations, I've known this girl well for at least 5 years, her kids are well acquinted with me and like I've said, I've been happy with her. I've been extremely picky with girls and just about all of the relationships I've had have been "date and drop" and I've put a lot more thought into this one than I have into others and I've been happy with everything so I don't really know what else to go from. I'll give it my all, and while I don't expect things to go bad here, if they do I'm sure I'll survive and will probably gain something from it. With all the bad and crazy shit that has happened in my life I'm not one to take heart-break all that hard.

Thanks primarily go to Nick, Ironplant and Soundwave for understanding the situation and showing the best way to try and deal with things under the circumstances.

Gohron whatever you do do NOT let the fact that she was your first cloud your judgement... actually its too late for that, I know it has already factored into your decision subtly. That shit fucks with your head, it has led to way too many guys hanging on to bullshit for longer than they should... I bet a plurality of people on this very board can vouch for that... I know I can...

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Gohron whatever you do do NOT let the fact that she was your first cloud your judgement... actually its too late for that, I know it has already factored into your decision subtly. That shit fucks with your head, it has led to way too many guys hanging on to bullshit for longer than they should... I bet a plurality of people on this very board can vouch for that... I know I can...

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That's something I've taken into consideration, but most of this I've made my desicions on before that even occured and I was planning on talking to her to stop the sex for at least a little bit to make sure that we're thinking things through clearly. I havn't felt like that's been all of a big deal to me, it was just kinda something that happened but I'm willing to accept the fact that it's affected my thought process.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

Gohron whatever you do do NOT let the fact that she was your first cloud your judgement... actually its too late for that, I know it has already factored into your decision subtly. That shit fucks with your head, it has led to way too many guys hanging on to bullshit for longer than they should... I bet a plurality of people on this very board can vouch for that... I know I can...

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QFT

I hung on to my first for literally years after it was worth it and missed out on a lot of shit.

Truth is, no matter how sound or reasonable the advice you get is or will be, you're gonna go with your heart because it's what you have to do sometimes. It's not always what's best or what's right, but I know nobody could have talked me out of the shit I did and it wasn't from a lack of them trying.

The thing is after your first (at least for me) I felt like I'd always compare everyone that came after to her and they wouldn't measure up or be the same... then I fell for a completely different type of girl. It was really surprising for me to learn that "love" or whatever could be a totally different thing every time.

I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore. I think the point was that any advice you get is useless, there's nothing logical about what's going on. You're gonna do what you're gonna do and that's that.

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Originally Posted by diffusionx

That shit fucks with your head, it has led to way too many guys hanging on to bullshit for longer than they should... I bet a plurality of people on this very board can vouch for that... I know I can...

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Me too.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

The thing is after your first (at least for me) I felt like I'd always compare everyone that came after to her and they wouldn't measure up or be the same... then I fell for a completely different type of girl.

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Me too.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

then I fell for a completely different type of girl.

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they were the same age though, AMIRITE GUYS?

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Originally Posted by Mzo

The thing is after your first (at least for me) I felt like I'd always compare everyone that came after to her and they wouldn't measure up or be the same...

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http://www.pbclibrary.org/images/SWC...with-Visor.jpg

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then I fell for a completely different type of girl.

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http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/..._300x406,0.jpg

lol die

mzo brings knowledge but only garners haters.

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Originally Posted by Mzo

I hung on to my first for literally years after it was worth it and missed out on a lot of shit.

Truth is, no matter how sound or reasonable the advice you get is or will be, you're gonna go with your heart because it's what you have to do sometimes. It's not always what's best or what's right, but I know nobody could have talked me out of the shit I did and it wasn't from a lack of them trying.

The thing is after your first (at least for me) I felt like I'd always compare everyone that came after to her and they wouldn't measure up or be the same... then I fell for a completely different type of girl. It was really surprising for me to learn that "love" or whatever could be a totally different thing every time.

I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore. I think the point was that any advice you get is useless, there's nothing logical about what's going on. You're gonna do what you're gonna do and that's that.

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:link:
I have been in a similar situation as Gohron and nothing good came of it.

1. Respect the parents but know they will never approve not for years and even then they will never let it go.

2. "I would approach it with some emotional detatchment." Vasteel
I agree 100% but you it sounds like Gohron fucked already.

3. Be a friend not a captian save a hoe (no dis) I'm sure you'll do as MZO said once it's over you'll be back here posting about your "ex".

Good luck to you. Your sanity is going to need it.

Cutie the bomb
Met her at a beauty salon
With a baby louis vuitton
Under her under arm
She said I can tell you rock
I can tell by ya charm
Far as girls you got a flock
I can tell by ya charm and ya arm
but I'm lookin for the one
have you seen her
My psychic told me she'll have a ass like Serena
Trina, Jennifer Lopez, four kids
An I gotta take all they bad ass to show-biz
Ok get ya kids but then they got their friends
I Pulled up in the Benz, they all got up in
We all went to din and then I had to pay
If you fuckin with this girl then you betta be paid
You know why
It take too much to touch her
From what I heard she got a baby by Busta
My best friend say she use to fuck wit Usher

I dont care what none of ya'll say I still love her

WAKE UP MR WEST!

Ah, I misread the first post. I thought Gohron was still living in her parents' house, so I thought the parents were kind of giving an implicit blessing here.

Still, it sounds like this is the right relationship for you because it makes you happy and it's helping her out. Love isn't necessarily (or ever) convenient and worry-free.

She's lucky to have you, but never forget that you're lucky to have her, too.

~ Nick ~

The upside:

- "Love"
- Sex?
- a family, albeit somewhat dysfunctional

The downside:

- Dealing with an ex (or two) for the next ___teen years.
- Raising kids that aren't yours and trying to be fair in the process.
- Do you want kids? Add more to the payroll you're going to need + integrating with her kids + the fact that your relationship is going to suffer because of said kids.
- Age (you don't say how much older). Women age less gracefully than men.
- Because she already has kids, you're going to be on the outer circle. It might not be now, or in 2 years from now, but eventually you're going to get there.
- The possibility that this a rebound relationship for her. The typical psychologist estimates it takes at least two years to recover from divorce/separation properly.
- The fact that she has already given up on two would be fathers (not saying any of it is her fault, but she couldn't keep those together and must share some blame).

Couple these with the fact that you're 19 and there IS someone out there that would be far less of a challenge and then you really have to ask yourself if this chick is going to be there through everything for you. Ask yourself (and her) if you were in a devastating car crash and were wheelchair bound would she still be next to you regardless? If, in your mind, the answer is "yes" (without doubt) then it might be worth it. Otherwise, no chance.

Haoh is right. Listen to the nigga.

This girl is an enormous project, and you aren't ready for it. This is the kind of thing that will go on way too long, further complicated by the kids.

Get out while it isn't an even bigger mess and you haven't added another kid to the pile.

I would never date a girl with kids, never ever, and I have a better job than Gohron, a degree, and am older. Not saying that to rub it in your face, but to say just what a huge fucking magnitude kids are. Kids ruin your life.

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Originally Posted by Nick

Ah, I misread the first post. I thought Gohron was still living in her parents' house, so I thought the parents were kind of giving an implicit blessing here.

Still, it sounds like this is the right relationship for you because it makes you happy and it's helping her out. Love isn't necessarily (or ever) convenient and worry-free.

She's lucky to have you, but never forget that you're lucky to have her, too.

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Thanks Nick, that seems to apply a good bit to my situation here. I'll take everything else into account but I already covered a lot of those bases before entering into anything serious with her, like I said, I put a good deal of thought into this and it was far from a snap desicion. As I posted earlier it seems like it took a good nights sleep for her parents to understand and accept the situation and they've agreed to help with her husband and divorce process to help get things moving.

I've also gathered a lot of advice from my parents, my grandparents, various friends, etc. and I havn't been able to find the justification for backing out now. Everything says things will play out well and I'm willing to give an extra shove to help things out, hell, I've already been through a lot here and most of the initial "bad points" that were going to come have already been dealt with or are blowing over. Worse comes to worst, things fall apart and I move on with a little more experience in my life, so I'd say it's worth it to give it my all now.

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Originally Posted by cigsthecat

This girl is an enormous project, and you aren't ready for it. This is the kind of thing that will go on way too long, further complicated by the kids.

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I've spent a good deal of my late teens being "the man" in my mom's life and she's far more an emotional train-wreck then this girl, if you can even consider this girl an emotional train-wreck (which I don't). I've been through a drug-abusing father, some of the worst family problems I can imagine, getting my life back on it's feet twice, not once, etc. so this situation doesn't seem like that big of a challenge for me. Yeah, there's complications involved, big ones even but I've always been one to get through the really really fucking bad and get to the good, in fact it's what I've had to do for a majority of my life.

If we're both happy and willing to slug through the down-points I don't find it to be a bad situation to be in. I've known relationships with far more complications and problems to work out and end up well and like I said, if it doesn't work I still will probably walk away a better man.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gohron

I've spent a good deal of my late teens being "the man" in my mom's life

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That sounds very wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

That sounds very wrong.

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Yeah, I thought it would but it's not fucked up like that. She had very little friends for a long time and when she had a problem I often had to help her through things, the way that she's supposed to do with me...she's gotten a lot better though.

Just because it's all you know doesn't mean that you can't take time for a break, and lead a normal relationship...

Seriously dude, I know you "love" her but damn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chux

Just because it's all you know doesn't mean that you can't take time for a break, and lead a normal relationship...

Seriously dude, I know you "love" her but damn.

---

I didn't mean it like that, I just meant the circumstances wern't that huge of a deal for me, at least not apparently so at the time. I pointed out earlier I've been a "date and drop" kind've guy because I havn't really ever found a girl/woman I was into other then initial attraction, I've known this girl for a long time, we've been happy with the relationship, etc. so what the hell, huh?

It's not like this girl was my only option but she was the only option I was really interested in and even more-so as things got going.

Just out of curiousity, how old is she?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burky

Just out of curiousity, how old is she?

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29, about 9 years older then me. I've considered the aging issue, though her sister is in her mid 30's and could still pass for somebody in their mid-20's at the least, her mom has aged well and she herself has remained pretty much un-changed in the looks department since she's been a couple years younger then me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gohron

I've spent a good deal of my late teens being "the man" in my mom's life and she's far more an emotional train-wreck then this girl, if you can even consider this girl an emotional train-wreck (which I don't). I've been through a drug-abusing father, some of the worst family problems I can imagine, getting my life back on it's feet twice, not once, etc. so this situation doesn't seem like that big of a challenge for me. Yeah, there's complications involved, big ones even but I've always been one to get through the really really fucking bad and get to the good, in fact it's what I've had to do for a majority of my life.

---

All of this stuff is why you think this current girl is a good idea. You should listen to the objective observers here, but it's clear that you won't.

Unless you plan to take care of these kids for the rest of your life you are simply contributing to the kind of childhood that'll put them in their mom's situation later, and the cycle continues.

The main thing I'd worry about with going out seriously with an older woman is how she'd be in say twenty years time. Ok, her mother's aged well, but it's still an issue.
You'd be forty, but she'd be like fifty, and that's getting old meanwhile you're just middle aged at that point.
But I'm speaking from no experience here, it's just the first thoughts that would be on my mind.

29? Two kids? Married/separated? Yikes. You're in waaaaaaaaaaay over your head, dude and she should know better. You can't even buy a beer yet.

Take a two month break from her and see what you think then. If it's meant to be, it won't affect anything. If you wake up, you'll be thanking me.

Gohron, I know how you feel, you are all wanting to do the best thing for her because you care about her, but trust us on this, it won't be good for you. She should know better too, dragging a kid like you into the mess.

We are all mostly well-off WASPs, hardly world-weary, but we are all saying this is not good for you, universally. Go and focus on your baseball and bang some chicks your age, its not worth it.

The collective community of TNL has absolutely nothing to gain in trying to steer you in the wrong direction. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've been on both sides of this coin (marrying a woman with kids and integrating with others that have) as well as dating women significantly younger than me. The first year or two might be great but you HAVE to think about things besides the two of you. What if you decide in 1, 2, or 5 years that, hell, this woman really IS too old for me and you decide to bail on the relationship. The kids will have known you/lived with you for years and you'll be removing yourself from their lives as well. You have to think about that, too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gohron

29, about 9 years older then me. I've considered the aging issue, though her sister is in her mid 30's and could still pass for somebody in their mid-20's at the least, her mom has aged well and she herself has remained pretty much un-changed in the looks department since she's been a couple years younger then me.

---

9 years? Daaamn.

Mothers can sometimes be a decent gauge as to how the daughter will age but not always. Watch that shit, dude. You'd never catch me doing what you're doing.

How's the sex?

I usually don't care for the age-gap game, because my stepmother is closer to me in age than she is to my father. She's 31, he's, shit, 47 now? Normally, I don't care how old the people are, but in this case it seems like that's a significant issue. Like he said, you can't even go out drinking with her, and 19 is not old enough to be considered a father-figure no matter how mature you are from facing shit.

Good luck. I'm not going to preach because I haven't been there and don't know shit. If you're committed to her and think you can make it work, I wish you the best of everything.

PS don't piss her parents off, ever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by haohmaru

The collective community of TNL has absolutely nothing to gain in trying to steer you in the wrong direction. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've been on both sides of this coin (marrying a woman with kids and integrating with others that have) as well as dating women significantly younger than me. The first year or two might be great but you HAVE to think about things besides the two of you. What if you decide in 1, 2, or 5 years that, hell, this woman really IS too old for me and you decide to bail on the relationship. The kids will have known you/lived with you for years and you'll be removing yourself from their lives as well. You have to think about that, too.

---

I thought about how things would go with the kids awhile ago and her and I have talked about that stuff kind've stuff on many occassions. I've made bad desicions just like everyone else but I've never let them get to the point where they would cause a lot of trouble and I don't plan to let things get serious here and then just walk out and leave her in the kids in a bad boat like that.

The biggest figures in my life have been pretty supportive of what's going on. My dad basically said "I married an older woman with kids and I can't complain about a thing" and my grandmother (who married my grandfather who is about 10 years older then her in the same situation, when my mom was a teenager and all) told me that she thinks an older girl would probably be a lot better for me then a girl my age despite the baggage.

And Dole...it's good :P Though we're probably going to take a break from it pretty soon.

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

How's the sex?

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She's his first. Even if the sex is awul he still thinks it's great.

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Originally Posted by Saint of Killers

She's his first. Even if the sex is awul he still thinks it's great.

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Good point. I lost my virginity at 17 and by 19 I still had no idea what the fuck I was doing.

Unlike the sexual Tyrannosaurus I am now, of course.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

And Dole...it's good :P Though we're probably going to take a break from it pretty soon.

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...eh?

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

...eh?

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The sex thing can be an influencer in the kind've situation we're in...not a huge break but probably for just a little while, mostly to make sure everyone is thinking straight I guess, that's mostly my idea but I don't know...like DiffX told me once "Once you pop you can't stop".

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Originally Posted by Gohron

The biggest figures in my life have been pretty supportive of what's going on. My dad basically said "I married an older woman with kids and I can't complain about a thing" and my grandmother (who married my grandfather who is about 10 years older then her in the same situation, when my mom was a teenager and all) told me that she thinks an older girl would probably be a lot better for me then a girl my age despite the baggage.

---

Be careful that they aren't just telling you what you want to hear.
TNL is more blunt and down to Earth.

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Originally Posted by Burky

Be careful that they aren't just telling you what you want to hear.
TNL is more blunt and down to Earth.

---

Also be careful that she isn't telling you what you want to hear, either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burky

Be careful that they aren't just telling you what you want to hear.
TNL is more blunt and down to Earth.

---

My dad and grandmother never tell me what I want to hear for the sake of being nice, they've been some of the harshest people in my life but always for the best.

Then with no offense to you or your family, I find it strange how TNL, containing people who have had plenty of experience with this, like haohmaru, have such a different opinion for your parents.
Maybe she's the perfect girl for you and your family recognises this and so support you.
But even if your family gives good, honest, just make sure you don't listen to the opinion that you want to. Weigh up both sides of the argument, and see which comes out best.
Perhaps even raise some issues mentioned in this thread to your dad, and see what he says. Maybe he missed some things out.

Keep in mind, Gohron's family has actually met this girl. We only know what he tells us.

That said, I would still trust my opinion over theirs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Burky

Then with no offense to your family, I find it strange how TNL, containing people who have had plenty of experience with this, liek haohmaru, have such a different opinion for your parents.
Maybe she's the perfect girl for you and your family recognises this, but even if your family give good, honest, just make sure you don't listen to the opinion that you want to.

---

Oh, well I know all of that, but at the same time everyone on here hasn't been against it. My mom has had her problems with it but for completely different reasons then stated here. Not everyone knows the situation as well as some other people, but whatever...I've made my desicion on how to go about things now and if I get burnt, oh well but I don't plan to fuck things up for this girls kids and all.

I think Nick gave the best advice, considering the fact that I'm already in this situation and pulling out now wouldn't really be fair after I carefully made the desicion to start things.

I've always taken into account my dad's advice and when I havn't, he's usually been right as he's been through enough shit to last 10 life-times so I don't know...

I respect everyone's opinion here but I've always disagreed with the majority on TNL regarding relationships (and a million other things). I made the thread because I was a little agitated with things last night and just wanted to see what other people thought.

I'm about to pull out of this thread, I messed my thumb up something good today playing baseball and this typing isn't making it any better :/

I'm willing to bet she doesn't know what she wants and you obviously don't yourself. Guys in your situation are a dime a dozen around my way. I wish you the best but like most people you are going to learn the hard way.

Not to be an asshole, but I hope she is thinking it through and dumps you instead of using you and being selfish. Her kids (the oldest is what 8-10?) hates or will hate you. Hao speaks nothing but truth. You need a time out think of yourself for little while longer, school, dating, living on your own, etc before you take that step. She has already been through all that in the end it will be a problem for you.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

but she's got her draw-backs. For one she's a bit older then me, for two she's got kids and for three she's still legally married to a guy...

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I didn't even make it past this opener, coupled with the fact that you're 19 years old. Good grief.

All I can say is, this chick better be as hot as that Dominican milf A.J. was banging on the season finale of the Sopranos, or it's not worth your time.

And even then I'd think twice.

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Originally Posted by haohmaru

Take a two month break from her and see what you think then. If it's meant to be, it won't affect anything.

---

Listen to this man, he knows what he's talking about. Taking time off to get your bearings can't possibly hurt you.

I disagree with everyone here and agree with your folks about an older woman being a good thing. Older women are often a lot more mature, honest, and understanding.

I realize you've made the decision to see this thing through and plan to hold to that, and that is honorable and commendable. But it might not be 'right'.

You need to sit down and ask yourself where you really want to be 5, 10, 20 years down the line. Not just a job and shit like that, but what parts of life do you want to experience. Then ask yourself whether or not committing to this relationship will be conducive towards realizing those ambitions. If yes, it will, go for it. If not, the relationship might even go on for years, but eventually it is gonna crash and burn, guaranteed, and you are going to be bitter about giving all of that up.

My god, do any of you honestly go into a relationship fretting over what the girl will look like and what the situation will be "20 years down the line"? Think about what you're doing here:

You're telling a person to leave the girl he wants to be with and who wants to be with him.

Let them have their happiness together, let them support each other, whether the sexual component lasts twenty more years or twenty more days. It sounds like they are providing affection and solace to each other during difficulty times. The husband, the parents, the marriage, and the age difference are not exactly insurmountable obstacles, even collectively. (I'd say none of them matters worth a damn in the grand scheme of things, but I'd be afraid you'd all just jump on that sentence and ignore everything else I wrote in the post.)

Going on face value here, I'd say each of them is the best thing that ever happened to the other, and they have a lot of room to learn from one another and grow together. Everyone should have that in his life, because that type of relationship makes one a stronger and better-rounded person. You guys sound worse than the conservative parents because you're already talking marriage and old age and missing the fact that they are happy now and they are free to stay together for as long or short a time as they want.

The children are the only part of the deal that gives me pause, for two very different reasons: (1) If this turns out to be a short-term relationship and she goes on to someone else, the children will deal with shit from other people talking and from their own feelings. (2) If this goes on for long enough, Gohron will almost certainly have to deal with some drama involving jealousy and possessiveness. Joy at some point might get so comfortable that she subtly or even overtly starts pushing Gohron to be like a "true father" to the kids. It seems like women just don't understand that, for many men at least, another man's child will never come even close to feeling like your child. And they try to force these father-son bonds while just feeding resentment and opening wounds.

But if all parties are willing to make a go at it and learn together, I would not presume to tell them to run away from their feelings or even take a couple of months apart. They have a good foothold here, so there's no reason to jump off blindly. Joy has a man that seems to have her best interests at heart and Gohron finally has a woman that he feels deeply about. If you think she has issues because of two kids from two relationships (and I'm not saying she does - I'm playing devil's advocate) then why wouldn't you want her to stay with Gohron if the alternative is finding some more bad boys with some more weak rubbers? And if you think Gohron should just wander around looking for pussy with fewer strings attached, when he clearly stated that he finds little fulfillment doing that, then ask yourself if you think the same things that make you happy are the only things that can make anyone happy.

Wow, good advice actually CAN come from TNL. Well put, Nick.

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Originally Posted by Mykozo

Wow, good advice actually CAN come from TNL. Well put, Nick.

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Yeah, thanks a lot Nick, that helps a lot.

stop only listening to what you want to hear

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Originally Posted by stormy

stop only listening to what you want to hear

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I've taken everything into account and there was sound advice that I've definately thought about and will think about but I don't know, some people just seem a little cynical...anyways, I think we've just about done this topic to death, thanks for the words everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nick

My god, do any of you honestly go into a relationship fretting over what the girl will look like and what the situation will be "20 years down the line"? Think about what you're doing here:

You're telling a person to leave the girl he wants to be with and who wants to be with him.

Let them have their happiness together, let them support each other, whether the sexual component lasts twenty more years or twenty more days. It sounds like they are providing affection and solace to each other during difficulty times. The husband, the parents, the marriage, and the age difference are not exactly insurmountable obstacles, even collectively. (I'd say none of them matters worth a damn in the grand scheme of things, but I'd be afraid you'd all just jump on that sentence and ignore everything else I wrote in the post.)

Going on face value here, I'd say each of them is the best thing that ever happened to the other, and they have a lot of room to learn from one another and grow together. Everyone should have that in his life, because that type of relationship makes one a stronger and better-rounded person. You guys sound worse than the conservative parents because you're already talking marriage and old age and missing the fact that they are happy now and they are free to stay together for as long or short a time as they want.

The children are the only part of the deal that gives me pause, for two very different reasons: (1) If this turns out to be a short-term relationship and she goes on to someone else, the children will deal with shit from other people talking and from their own feelings. (2) If this goes on for long enough, Gohron will almost certainly have to deal with some drama involving jealousy and possessiveness. Joy at some point might get so comfortable that she subtly or even overtly starts pushing Gohron to be like a "true father" to the kids. It seems like women just don't understand that, for many men at least, another man's child will never come even close to feeling like your child. And they try to force these father-son bonds while just feeding resentment and opening wounds.

But if all parties are willing to make a go at it and learn together, I would not presume to tell them to run away from their feelings or even take a couple of months apart. They have a good foothold here, so there's no reason to jump off blindly. Joy has a man that seems to have her best interests at heart and Gohron finally has a woman that he feels deeply about. If you think she has issues because of two kids from two relationships (and I'm not saying she does - I'm playing devil's advocate) then why wouldn't you want her to stay with Gohron if the alternative is finding some more bad boys with some more weak rubbers? And if you think Gohron should just wander around looking for pussy with fewer strings attached, when he clearly stated that he finds little fulfillment doing that, then ask yourself if you think the same things that make you happy are the only things that can make anyone happy.

---

All of this sounds fine and good in Make Believe Land which, in fact, doesn't exist. Forget about cynicism and all the conservative mantra that's being banded about here. Let's get really REAL.

Nick, you're forgetting the most critical component to all of this. This guy is NINETEEN years old - can you imagine yourself at nineteen with Mrs. Robinson, her two kids and two ex's who isn't divorced yet and barely 6 months into a separation? SHE is in no condition to make a sound judgment on a future relationship regardless of her attraction or good intentions. Separation and divorce can take YEARS to divest oneself from and to truly have a sense of self again. You and I certainly know this. I'm nearly a year (tomorrow) removed from my separation and I still have issues with it that aren't buried and might never be, completely.

Gohron is a kid. Sure, he can legally marry, father a child and even smoke cigarettes. Nineteen, in today's society, is still high school material wherein most in that age group are concerned with getting laid, getting high, and spending at least the next 4-6 years figuring out what they want to do with themselves. Unless I'm completely mistaken, the guy hasn't had to support himself or a house, much less a house with a woman and two kids that aren't his in it.

Yeah, "love" is the variable that defies everything. Friends, parents, TNL guidance counselors, and everything else. It can't be defined or have parameters and everyone's individual defintion of love is defined by what they think, not by what anyone else thinks.

The realism variable here screams that this isn't right and can't work long term and I agree that if anything can conquer that it's "true love". Equally, however, "true love" allows for freedom and waits for its return. Gohron should take a month or two off and remove himself from the situation so he can truly tackle it with the head that isn't attached to a sack of testicles. Even so, it might be too late for clear thinking already.

I'm not pissing on anyone's parade and for the sake of all involved, I really hope that it works out. Bottom line here is that she's not ready, he's not ready, and the kids already have a lot of shit to deal with without having a new man about the house - especially when that man is barely removed from high school. The mother should know better and if the two have to date and see each other then she should've hired a babysitter and done it discreetly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stormy

stop only listening to what you want to hear

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I for one am not sticking my head in his broken asshole. You may be, but not me.

Yeah Gohron, are you really prepared in your life to be the father of two kids? To provide for them? Raise them?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IronPlant

I for one am not sticking my head in his broken asshole. You may be, but not me.

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Liar

Quote:

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Originally Posted by g0zen

Yeah Gohron, are you really prepared in your life to be the father of two kids? To provide for them? Raise them?

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this is a good question. He isn't asking you if you are man enough to do it, but if you think this is really what will bring you the most enjoyment. Its ok to be a little selfish in how you answer. When it comes to love you gotta be a little selfish or you'll get used up.

Gohron, I'm sure you're a great guy and anyone would be lucky to have you (and I'm not even being sarcastic) but the safest road is probably the middle between the Nick approach end everyone else.

You've been through a similar ordeal with your own mother and while that's prepared you for this, it's also a good bit of why you're here to begin with and so gung ho about the whole thing. That's not anything to break it off over, obviously, but it's something you should probably try to face head on. It will mean something later more than it does now. You're 19. That doesn't mean you're an idiot but it does mean that you're going to have a lot of yourself to mull over and sort out in the coming years.

She's confused as hell. Like I said, great guy, all that, but that's a ten year age difference. You're comfortable, warm, NICE which is a big one up on the old guy. But along with that comes how she'll feel when it hits her that her new man is a decade younger, she has kids to take care of, all of the cliched bullshit (possibly bullshit, I don't know you) that people will use to tell both of you to run might catch up with her. Or you, for that matter. You never know.

At the start, these aren't HUGE things that you two can't get past, I know. Small things tend to fester and turn into huge, relationship breaking ordeals however and I mean the dumbest, tiniest things. These two things are relatively big for baggage to start your new relationship on. So, if you're planning on making this forever, prepare to deal with it once you get the old guy and her parents taken care of. If you aren't and you're just in it to be a mutual comfort "for now," just bail man. Be her friend, help her through but don't take it any further anymore and I say that for the kids. My ex is on her third live-in since me and I've seen first hand the impact it has on a kid over time. It has torn my son apart and he's absolutely sick of someone being introduced as permenant and gone without a trace a blink later.

Really, if you two can help each other, I'm all for this. But don't kid yourselves into thinking that the only hurdles are her parents and her estranged husband. If you're going to help each other, then move cautiously and be aware of what each of you is going to need help with.

And if you take ANY of what I have just said to heart and try to talk about any of it and she avoids it? Go. If she can't deal with it now, even just a touching base type of talk, Haoh's absolutely right and she's too damned confused to be making this kind of call. If she's aware of what she's doing, actually in love with you and ready to take it on, by all means, give it a shot. Just face the entirety of the situation with reality firmly in mind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by x2y

Her kids (the oldest is what 8-10?) hates or will hate you.

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You don't know that. The kids could totally dig him for all you know. They're almost the same age after all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nick

My god, do any of you honestly go into a relationship fretting over what the girl will look like and what the situation will be "20 years down the line"?

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If there's a chance of it going the distance, yeah. That's the way Gohron is talking.

And for a second time I agree with Haoh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by haohmaru

. . . if the two have to date and see each other then she should've hired a babysitter and done it discreetly.

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This is absolutely the approach I would have taken, but that's not the way it went. I do agree with you, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by haohmaru

All of this sounds fine and good in Make Believe Land which, in fact, doesn't exist.

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No? But I saw it on a map once. Yeah, it was the next exit over from There’s Only One Way to Do Things Gardens.

I find TNL to be strangely paternalistic on this topic. Yes, he is nineteen, so stop ringing the wedding bells for him. If the relationship fizzles out or abruptly ends tomorrow, it won’t be a waste of time or some deep life lesson any more than when you stopped dating someone at nineteen.

People use children as an excuse to ruin their own lives all the time, but as a person whose mother divorced twice and as someone that lived with a woman and her child from a previous relationship, I’ll tell you that kids are not fragile little eggs with delicate innards all ready to spill out at the slightest jolt. And nothing in Gohron’s description leads me to believe that continuing the relationship would be any worse for the kids than not continuing it and having an older man come into the picture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

You don't know that. The kids could totally dig him for all you know. They're almost the same age after all.

And for a second time I agree with Haoh.

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Your right I don't know that, but it's a good possibilty.

I too agree with Hao yet again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Curtis

Gohron, I'm sure you're a great guy and anyone would be lucky to have you (and I'm not even being sarcastic) but the safest road is probably the middle between the Nick approach end everyone else.

You've been through a similar ordeal with your own mother and while that's prepared you for this, it's also a good bit of why you're here to begin with and so gung ho about the whole thing. That's not anything to break it off over, obviously, but it's something you should probably try to face head on. It will mean something later more than it does now. You're 19. That doesn't mean you're an idiot but it does mean that you're going to have a lot of yourself to mull over and sort out in the coming years.

She's confused as hell. Like I said, great guy, all that, but that's a ten year age difference. You're comfortable, warm, NICE which is a big one up on the old guy. But along with that comes how she'll feel when it hits her that her new man is a decade younger, she has kids to take care of, all of the cliched bullshit (possibly bullshit, I don't know you) that people will use to tell both of you to run might catch up with her. Or you, for that matter. You never know.

At the start, these aren't HUGE things that you two can't get past, I know. Small things tend to fester and turn into huge, relationship breaking ordeals however and I mean the dumbest, tiniest things. These two things are relatively big for baggage to start your new relationship on. So, if you're planning on making this forever, prepare to deal with it once you get the old guy and her parents taken care of. If you aren't and you're just in it to be a mutual comfort "for now," just bail man. Be her friend, help her through but don't take it any further anymore and I say that for the kids. My ex is on her third live-in since me and I've seen first hand the impact it has on a kid over time. It has torn my son apart and he's absolutely sick of someone being introduced as permenant and gone without a trace a blink later.

Really, if you two can help each other, I'm all for this. But don't kid yourselves into thinking that the only hurdles are her parents and her estranged husband. If you're going to help each other, then move cautiously and be aware of what each of you is going to need help with.

And if you take ANY of what I have just said to heart and try to talk about any of it and she avoids it? Go. If she can't deal with it now, even just a touching base type of talk, Haoh's absolutely right and she's too damned confused to be making this kind of call. If she's aware of what she's doing, actually in love with you and ready to take it on, by all means, give it a shot. Just face the entirety of the situation with reality firmly in mind.

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This post provides to be a little more helpful then the "just drop her dude" argument. All I'll bring up is that the two of us have thoroughly discussed most of what was brought up in this thread and while the relationship was more "new" she brought most of it up herself and really made me think to make sure that I wanted to be and was ready to be in the situation. Her kids like me, the two year old has known me since she was born and the 8 year old has known me since she was almost a baby and has no problem talking to me about anything. And just for clarification, her first daughter didn't come from a marriage, she was about my age and people make mistakes.

The age gap has been brought up but honestly that seemed the smallest problem to me. People are constantly getting into good relationships with people of a semi-large age differance, in fact most of the succesful relationships in my family and extended family have only had succesful relationships with people around 5-10 years older/younger. The fact I'm only 20 is cause for concern and to be honest I'm not finanicially stable enough to support her and the kids right now but I'm not that far off and that really isn't a situation that has to be conquered here and now.

Sure, things arn't completely ideal the way that people expect them to be coming into a relationship with somebody they appreciate and enjoy being with but everyone has baggage, except the baggage in the situation I'm in is just more visible and apparent, though it doesn't really mean things are worse off then if I was dating somebody younger with no kids.

Things arn't perfect here and I'll continue to think through things but the general TNL relationship consensus of "Sex and me me me" doesn't help so much either. I'm not saying I think everyone here is stupid, in fact most of what was said was positive but the "no hope" outlook isn't the only possible outcome.

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Originally Posted by Nick

No? But I saw it on a map once. Yeah, it was the next exit over from There’s Only One Way to Do Things Gardens.

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Wit-tastic. GG.

So are you the volunteer daddy yet?

More like draftee.

Just figured I would post here if anyone was curious how things would turn up. TNL was right for the most part I guess. We had to go through a whole bunch of shit with the husband and when that was done and over with her parents were accepting and supporting of the relationship. Things were good and worry-free for a good bit and we even started making plans along the lines of marriage. When nothing was going on she just said that she jumped into everything too quick, she should've waited longer, she thought she was ready but she wasn't.

So now we're still talking but she says she needs her space right now and needs to figure out things for herself before she can properly insert herself into another relationship. Maybe she was feeling guilty about things or about dumping stuff on me. Right now I'm just trying to plan about going on with my life, trying to get back involved with baseball and all. I was heading to the PA Police Academy but I'm letting go of those plans now and maybe will try to get into a Division 1 school to play ball. Something tells me that she may be back and right now I'd say I'd probably take her back because I accepted so much shit and gave so much of my heart into this relationship and I really loved her but I'm trying to go on like she won't be back. I'm going from periods of feeling just fine and dandy to feeling like utter shit, mostly because I think something I was so involved with (that took up a good bit of my time) is gone and now I don't know what to do with myself. I cried my eyes out when I sent her a few voice messages last night and I havn't cried for maybe five years or so and I've had to deal with death, etc, etc since then.

I guess everything really hurts you know because of how much I gave myself in this relationship, she gave a lot too but I guess what really hurt is how fast things moved along, I don't think we would've had to go through this had we just taken it easy but I guess the circumstances I was putting myself in, plus all the bullshit we had to deal with just increased the emotional attachment we had for eachother. I got along well with the kids and I miss them too.

She wants to stay in contact with me right now but doesn't really think we should hang out for the time being because of our feelings being involved, she's pretty hurt over it too. I'm all for that because I still care for her and want to be there if she needs me and I wouldn't mind hanging out with her once things blow over even if it was just friendly because we've had a great time with eachother long before we had a relationship, she's just a fun person I guess.

What the fuck do I do? How do I get myself upstarted again? Obviously this relationship had a real serious commitment so it's not like it was a fling or anything. I'm not mad at her because I understand she's gotta do what she's gotta do and we all make mistakes with jumping into stuff that's over our head. I'm not really looking to hear things about taking her back when and if that time comes though, I have to go with my heart there and I'll have to take all of that as it comes so just lay off that stuff if anybody wants to post anything.

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What the fuck do I do?

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Kill yourself.

Barring that, change your phone number and never speak to her again.

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Originally Posted by Diff-chan

Barring that, change your phone number and never speak to her again.

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Excellent advice. From the outside it looks like she was just using you as a crutch/escape method to get out of her marriage. It may not feel that way, but women are really evil when you get down to situations like hers.

There are tons of chicks out there, give yourself a few months and you will feel better inside and in the meantime go out, have fun, and look for new chicks and never talk about this situation you were to any girl you meet in until you are actually in another deep relationship, it will drive them off, you will bee seen as a homewrecker, serious

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Originally Posted by D_N_G

Excellent advice. From the outside it looks like she was just using you as a crutch/escape method to get out of her marriage. It may not feel that way, but women are really evil when you get down to situations like hers.

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I'm pretty sure she wasn't as the marriage was already over at that point, not officially but she rarely dealt with her husband and had told him it was over almost a year before we dated. She shared way too much of her heart with me too just to be using me for such a simple purpose. Our relationship didn't make the official end of her marriage easier either, it only created a bunch of strife and stress for her. We'd always had a tiny something between us but when we first met the age differance was too fucked up to get into anything.

Rebound relationship maybe, yeah, people do fucked up things there, so like I said I'm not mad at her about any of this though. She said something along the lines that she still wanted to be with me but she just needed to be alone for awhile to sort her life out and I'd felt a lot of shit going through her heart so I had known something was up before she brought any of it up. Maybe I'll come to be angry in the future but I'm not know. I was thinking another girl in my life would help but I barely know any anymore and the thought of being with somebody else hurts right now, I think I just need to focus on my shit for the time being without somebody else involved in my life.

It's also not really applicable for her to be completely removed from my life because of my relationship with her family and my friendship with her brother. We'll just have to be comfortable being around one another from time to time. I've had a few (much less serious relationships) that ended and still had to be around the person so we'd just let go of everything and be cool around one another.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

I'm pretty sure she wasn't as the marriage was already over at that point, not officially but she rarely dealt with her husband and had told him it was over almost a year before we dated. She shared way too much of her heart with me too just to be using me for such a simple purpose. Our relationship didn't make the official end of her marriage easier either, it only created a bunch of strife and stress for her. We'd always had a tiny something between us but when we first met the age differance was too fucked up to get into anything.

Rebound relationship maybe, yeah, people do fucked up things there, so like I said I'm not mad at her about any of this though. She said something along the lines that she still wanted to be with me but she just needed to be alone for awhile to sort her life out and I'd felt a lot of shit going through her heart so I had known something was up before she brought any of it up. Maybe I'll come to be angry in the future but I'm not know. I was thinking another girl in my life would help but I barely know any anymore and the thought of being with somebody else hurts right now, I think I just need to focus on my shit for the time being without somebody else involved in my life.

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Be mad. That's the best advice. Go spend some time alone, deal with your shit, and accept that you will never be with her. You'll be better off for it.

I guess I'm just going to have to try and deal with things as best as possible, obviously my mind probably isn't very clear right now but so far being mad has only made things harder on me. I'm a little excited because I have a shot at pursuing baseball again and even though I'm a mess right now this relationship really helped me learn about myself and all so I'm grateful for all of that, regardless of the outcome. Some parts of me are saying "Well, assuming you don't end up back with her (like I said I didn't want to hear about, but I'm not planning on it) then you can be with a girl who doesn't have kids and the two of you can be completely devoted to eachother" but then I'm thinking about what I put into this, what she put into this and how much time I spent preparing myself for all the negative aspects that would come along with it (mostly the kids and occassionally dealing with one of her past relationships, which I completely came to terms with and was comfortable with).

And like I said, maybe I hurt now because I don't know what to do with myself. I don't have a lot of friends anymore and the ones I do have are busy with work/school or away so I'm kind've stuck alone right now even know I don't want to be.

Drop her now, before she yanks your leesh again. This woman is playing you for a fool, why don't you see it?

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Originally Posted by g0zen

Drop her now, before she yanks your leesh again. This woman is playing you for a fool, why don't you see it?

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Because she popped his cherry.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

Drop her now, before she yanks your leesh again. This woman is playing you for a fool, why don't you see it?

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I wouldn't let her do this again and like I said, I've already started making plans with what to do now so it's not like I'm hanging on to everything and expecting everything to come back and be rosy and peachy again.

I'm sure a lot of you don't quite get the whole situation either, she's not good right now and this hasn't weighed very well on her either. I'm probably wasting my time trying to defend anything and I probably should've just let it be and not opened this thread up again but I don't know, wanted to let more shit out I guess.

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Originally Posted by Gohron

I'm pretty sure she wasn't as the marriage was already over at that point, not officially but she rarely dealt with her husband and had told him it was over almost a year before we dated. She shared way too much of her heart with me too just to be using me for such a simple purpose. Our relationship didn't make the official end of her marriage easier either, it only created a bunch of strife and stress for her. We'd always had a tiny something between us but when we first met the age differance was too fucked up to get into anything.

Rebound relationship maybe, yeah, people do fucked up things there, so like I said I'm not mad at her about any of this though. She said something along the lines that she still wanted to be with me but she just needed to be alone for awhile to sort her life out and I'd felt a lot of shit going through her heart so I had known something was up before she brought any of it up. Maybe I'll come to be angry in the future but I'm not know. I was thinking another girl in my life would help but I barely know any anymore and the thought of being with somebody else hurts right now, I think I just need to focus on my shit for the time being without somebody else involved in my life.

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Thats exactly what I meant you were an emotional crutch like it or not.

A crutch is something you use until you are feeling better and when you are done you dont really need it anymore. Sometimes you keep them around just in case you need them again.


Recovery just takes TIME and thats it, in the meantime deal with it and let it all out on your own but whatever you do

Run away....


BTW, here is a good chart for your feelings, pretty standard stuff:

Denial (this isn't happening to me!)

Anger (why is this happening to me?)

Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)

Depression (I don't care anymore)

Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)


Applies to loss/death/anything dealing with grief


Heres a second look at the series of steps:

Numbness (mechanical functioning and social insulation)

Disorganization (intensely painful feelings of loss)

Reorganization (re-entry into a more 'normal' social life.)

It seems pointless to assign ulterior motives to this woman we've never met when the situation is perfectly logical at face value. Yeah, women can be and frequently are pure, remoreseless evil with tits, but who's to say that's the case here? And the advice remains the same either way: go on with your business, cry an ocean of tears, and don't try to restart the relationship unilaterally.

Gohron, do you think she was just scared of making a committment?

Well I really don't think she made the time to really recover from her previous relationship, as close as we were to each other I could really feel what was going on with her and I knew that something was up before this. It wasn't like we just had a "fuck and chill" relationship, we knew how to read one another, would deal with each other's bullshit, etc. I really don't think she wanted things to turn up this way but she had some shit to deal with that she needed to deal with alone and I can understand that. Otherwise she was just as willing for commitment to everything as I was but I think once it got to a certain point maybe it really brought shit out for her. She's pretty angry at herself for a lot of her past I guess and to be quite honest she reminds me a lot of my goddamn mom, who has enough of her own problems.

Check your PM's Nick (in a second or two).

IMO it doesn't matter who this girl is or what could happen. She is drama and should be left post haste. Women are not snowflakes. There is another one out there that is just as good if not better. If you aren't a super stud, move to a city so you have better odds.

Oh, and don't talk about this relationship to any future girls. Girls lie about all their bad relationships, and assume you do too. They will take whatever you say and spin it in their heads untill you are the bad guy.