http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...ad.php?t=82755
Some of these are amazing.
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http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...ad.php?t=82755
Some of these are amazing.
Wow, the lack of advertising is really eery.
Also, NO CARS.
WTF.
man, it is hard to put into words just how much it must suck to live there.
http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/arch...e-north-korea/
Their Arch de Triomphe clone is really cool.
Holy shit, that was awesome.
"here you can see the worker, the farmworker and the intellectual."
<3 <3 <3
Freaky.
That big pyramid in Pyongyang is a 105 story (I think) hotel that the government built but is unoccupied.
Bill Clinton said the DMZ is the scariest place in the world.
Keep in mind they show him around the good parts only.
It's all subliminal.Quote:
Originally Posted by arjue
It's crazy how much that Kim fellow is plastered all over the place. Every citizen has a pin of him for their clothes? WTF?
Only if Hillary was with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
I'd like to see a smart bomb plaster him all over the place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs
He takes pics specifically of the hotel, as can be seen on pg 2Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
The statue of Kim Il Song with the little girls is just creepy.
The crazier thing is that it isn't pictures of the current leader, but his father. I only saw two pictures of Kim Jong Il.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs
As one commenter in the thread say, it's amazing how, even on sunny days, the country just seems to gray and lifeless.
When I was in Japan, I really got interested in North Korea - because of how close Japan is to them, of course there was a lot more on the news and whatnot about the country. It really is such a sad country. I wish there was something, anything we could do for them, but it's such a tough situation. Most of the Western world wants to help them, but of course they're taught the exact opposite, so anything we would try to do would only look like aggression or distain against the people.
My feelings are mixed about Iraq, but when it comes to North Korea, I would absolutely support taking out their government without hesitation if we could then assure the people that we did it for their sake.
I'd also, though, love to visit the country before any sort of change happened, because it would be such an amazing experience. Yeah, I'd probably be scared as hell to actually be in the country, but at the same time it'd be so worth it.
10% of their population is in the military. I wouldn't expect an invasion to look half as pretty as Iraq's did if this course of action was eventually taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by shidoshi
They use mostly shitty outdated Soviet equipment though - and tech is so important in warfare. They dont have many people, besides. I expect the official "war" to be more or less as clean-cut as the war against Saddam's army.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
of course, the country is so militarized, and the cult of personality is so strong, and the nationalism is so strong (like Juche, I believe the word is), and so many people have military training, I would expect the "insurgency" to be far far worse than it has been in Iraq.
overall, after Iraq I dont support "pre-emptive military actions" against a pre-determined "evil" country.
Then stupid ass liberals would be driving around with bumperstickers that said "No war for rice."Quote:
Originally Posted by shidoshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shidoshi
We aren't doing it for rice, we're doing it for sake. Read the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Anyway, I forwarded those pictures and captions to several people. It's nothing suprising, but that doesn't make it any less fascinating (and sad).
There are some cool and interesting pictures on there. However, some of the comentary is downright stupid. Especially that one about flat glass. These pictures seem to be really getting around the internet, and I'm not that sure why. They are not particularly shocking or anything.
The problem wouldn't be the war, the problem is they have nukes and Kim Jong Il is crazy enough to use them.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
My best friend was stationed along the border between SK and NK for a year and a half. His duty was to patrol a bridge connecting the two countries, and it was armed with charges that he would be ordered to blow up in case of an invasion from the North.
That's not really pertinent to this conversation I know, but he did tell me some stuff about living there along the border. He told me that the whole of the North Korean border is lined with thousands upon thousands of Artillery cannons just waiting to be used. Enough to obliterate a huge portion of the northern part of South Korea. The area is also heavily saturated with land mines, on BOTH sides. So much so that he was informed that this area of the world is the most heavily mined place on the entire planet. One little slip in the wrong spot and kaboom, bye bye hands feet and nutsack.
Another thing I remember is he said that during the night, all night long, the North Koreans broadcast anti-democracy, anti-South Korean, Pro-North Korean propaganda on huge megaphone speakers or some very loud soundsystem continously all night long, directed across their border to our troops and the SK troops.
This could be the scariest place on earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Nah. The North Koreans wouldn't put up half as much of a guerilla-type fight as the Iraqis. Juche is something thrust on them, it doesn't have the same hold the millenia-old arab/muslim identity has - it's basically a Koreanized version of Leninism. You wouldn't see people fighting to the death for it. They've also been starved forever, and pretty much all have relatives in the south and know life's better elsewhere.
Knocking over Korea would be alot more like knocking over Japan - once the leaders went, the population would fall in line. They've been conditioned to follow authority without question for decades now. The only reason the Korean war went so badly in the 50s was because the North had Chinese backing.
The real problem is that the populace just isn't ready for the modern competitve world. They live in a place where daddy Kim does all your thinking for you, and nothing much is expected because there's no competitive marketplace. Freeing North Korea would result in rampant unemployment and the problems, crime and social violence that entails - just as it has in East Germany, but likely worse. Northerners would have a really hard time blending in with their modernized southern relatives. They've been living in a semi-industrialized 1954 for the last half century.
Eventually their leadership or military will get sick of it and there'll be a coup and Kim will be overthrown, and reciprocity with the south will follow. Until then...
I think it looks like a pretty cool place. Didn't show any deep poverty images (I know, tour) and it all looked pretty clean. I'd call it relaxing if there wasn't so much government intervention in everything.
I think it's becuaser they are so mundane and borderline boring. The world is taught that NK is some cray place where people are constantly dissapearing and dying, rebels everywhere,etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mman
These photos however are like the calm before the storm. It's everyday, it's boring, it's reality. This is hard to explain :(
Not true, the world is taught that the place is a Soviet-style Communist hellhole which has a scary leader with an iron grip on the country and where people are so poor they eat tree bark to survive. Which is what the pictures show. Except for the tree bark thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar
The pictures show a country that is so odd and foreign and nothing like anything on Earth. They're unique, they show things a lot of people have never before seen, and thats why they're making the rounds.Quote:
These photos however are like the calm before the storm. It's everyday, it's boring, it's reality. This is hard to explain :(
Woah, thanks for the link.That was interesting. Never seen detailed pics of NK and didnt know a whole lot about their culture or way of life (except for the usual standards communism places on its people).That was weird seeing the deceptive "model" homes that foreigners were shown. I find it almost funny that the government feels the need to try and impress foreigners with stuff like that when 90% of the rest of the country and the people's environs look like complete shit. Why should the almighty North Korea even care what other people think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Detour
I though the same thing at first to, but I bet the people are relatively happy. I mean that's all they know,is that way of life. If they were allowed to visit SK and come back, they would realize what they are missing out on. which is why they arent allowed to visit south of the border. You dont miss what you've never had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironplant
I lol'ed.Quote:
Traffic signs warn you of other traffic signs..
You're an idiot. The country has been in famine for the past few years because of food shortages, and most people (especially those in the countryside, which is the vast majority of people afaik) are starving. The place is a full-on humanitarian crisis - the only thing that seperates it from other countries in such a situation is that the government won't let foreign reporters at all, and aid agencies in very very small and tightly controlled amounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
Not to mention the whole police state thing, and human rights abuses things.
Your mom's an idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
And food shortage's and a terrible way of life are all they know. How do these people know that there is another way to live when they've never seen or heard of it?
My dad grew up poor as is humanly possible in the flats of Arkansas when he was a child. He grew up happy with what he had without other modern conveniences children his age had. How do you think that's possible when he lived in such squalor? Because its all he knew. And he was with family who cared about him and he didnt know what other families or kids his age had. Its easy to grow complacent and comfortable with ones environment in a situation like this. Is it possible to be happier? no doubt. Do they know this? Probably not. Thats part of the propaganda their government throws in their face to try to convince them this is as good as it gets.
StriderKyo pointed out that pretty much everyone there knows people from the South and everyone knows how shitty it is there.
Also, attempting to escape via China is quite common.
And by your logic people in Ethopia who are starving and dying of AIDS and their little sisters die because of guerrilla combat are having a jolly old time because "that's all they know".
There's a big difference between living poor without the hot new toy and having to eat tree bark for basic sustenance. You are clueless.
For a second there I felt bad because I called you an idiot, it was fairly classless. With your latest post I see it was appropriate.
I'd just like to point out that this was a fantastic use of (looks up google...) a Homograph. Whatever it's called I applaud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick
All that and the electric fences keeping them all in like cattle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
Kim II better have a good goddam reason for being their god/king/savior, otherwise for this and his threat of aiming nukes, he should be eleminated.
Thanks for noticing, but (a) I'm straight and (b) I have contributed nothing of substance to this thread. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Error
bucker up. That is what TNL is all about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick
Yeah, I was going to comment that I wasnt too sure if the older family members would tell their kids and explain them how family members in SK live. Because I'm sure that current NK children and people who are our age havent visited SK, based on the barbed wire fences, demilitarized zone,etc. So , yeah, I'm not too clear on the level of interaction that still can and does go on betweeen family in that region.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Maybe I'm trying to rationalize it, but those are different situations from what I know of going on in NK. I didnt see pics of starving (hungry maybe) kids in those city wide pics I saw or guerillas running around shooting people in the head for the hell of it. But, I havent really been keeping up with the local times of North Korea recently. Some of us here admittedly dont know everything. That's why we have you to correct us though, YAY!Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
No, there is a distinction. I cant begin to imagine what life would be like to be that hungry. Once again, maybe I'm trying to find a way to rationalize why they would put up with what they do. Maybe, I'm wrong. Maybe, you're right. Maybe, both of us dont know shit, because we've never been there.Quote:
There's a big difference between living poor without the hot new toy and having to eat tree bark for basic sustenance. You are clueless.
It was.But when did anything you say ever have class in this place? In public and not on the internets if someone doesnt agree with you would you call them an idiot to their face? Its just internets though so no big deal, and prior to contrary belief its not always serious business. I've always liked reading your differing views on things, and I've mentioned that before, you just get too damn offended these days when someone doesnt share your opinions. Its very sandy. in the vaginaQuote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
prior to contrary belief? im confused by this statement, before you knew otherwise?
I think you are mistaking one thing, i understand the point you are trying to make, that when you dont have the luxuries of life, you can still get by and not miss it that badly. but the problem is, you can do that if your basic needs are being met, one can be "hungry" and get by, because while you are not eating enough to feel full, you are getting enough food to survive. in north korea they are a bit more than hungry, they are starving, people are simply not surviving,and its hard to make the best of that. Honestly they appear to be a population in total despair, and thats why there probably wont be a revolt internally, they just dont see any hope, maybe im wrong, maybe there will be a floor yet to be hit, and they will lash back at the wasteful government, but they just look to be in the full grip of despair.
the stories are out there if you care to look. No, there are no guerillas AFAIK, but thats because the government liberally spies on people and every citizen has a "rating" based on how good a citizen they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
A story was going around 1 or 2 years ago about how cannibalism is getting to be a problem in the country because of a lack of food. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../08/wkor08.xml
There are a lot of similar horror stories. Now, this stuff may be being spread by shady Ahmed Chalabi types, but I doubt it. The stories dont have the whiff of power brokering that the Iraq stories did, nor is there a large, powerful expatriate community around the globe actively and vocally pushing for regime change, a la Iran. It is desperation.
This kind of thing breaks my heart. That's probably common sense, but, I don't know..., after reading up on China under Mao and Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge/Pol Pot (both of which I believe were worse situations than NK though I don't know because I haven't looked into it) it shakes my faith that this type of thing will ever be a thing of the past.
There are millions of people out there under the thumb of totalitarianism, and they feel powerless against it because they started off living in fear of it and then gave up all hope having had their spirits crushed over successive generations. No one knows who they can trust so they trust no one and so regurgitate the party line by absolute habitual neccessity; do that for years upon years and your psychology becomes warped regardless of whether you truly believe in what you are forced to be like, and you really don't even know another way to be, not there, not now, not in any forseeable future. There is no sober wake up call where you one day just turn the tide in your mind, because your thoughts are layer upon layer of everything you've been indoctrinated to be through violence, fear, hunger, oppression... It's a sad travesty.
**edit**
Just to add to the above. There's a tried and true pattern that allows a totalitarian dictatorship in Asia to have that kind of control over a population. First, in order to stunt free thought, the intellectual class is killed off and/or "reeducated". Second, the family unit is broken down by sending family members including young children away from each other to disparate parts of the country, sometimes to not see their other family members for years, sometimes to never see them again. Third is to starve the population, using communalism as an excuse for everyone to have as little rationed to them as possible. Fourth is to subject all members of the population to hours daily of propaganda in town meeting fashion. Fifth is to set up a system where neighbors rat on neighbors for "political crimes", which are often ways for petty bickering between people who do not like each other to be resolved in the worst possible way. All of this is reinforced at gunpoint or fear of imprisonment.
I'm just trying to shed some light on how an entire population of a country can end up this way.
He's a total idiot, but it's not all his fault. All people see on the news about Iraq even is any bad news they can find. They don't mention that the citizens that are not insurgents were not exactly having a jolly old time under Saddam. The same thing applies here. The media loves to quote Bush about the "Axis of Evil" as if it were a joke. It's dead fucking on, and the people in these countries would likely agree 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
It's dead one? There is a new third reich? Which one is making panzers?
Well, shit, that's pretty fucking terrible. Never heard that before. Im surprised that NK isnt on better terms with China to where they would accept more support and/or help from them without it having to be smuggled in.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
hmm, good post. That's probably a lot more accurate than what I said about their happiness, then.Quote:
do that for years upon years and your psychology becomes warped regardless of whether you truly believe in what you are forced to be like, and you really don't even know another way to be, not there, not now, not in any forseeable future.
omg it burns. my soulQuote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Your mom makes it with panzers.
If people are happy you don't have to put electrified barb wire fences around the ocean to keep them from swimming off.
I can't believe we still have nations in this world that are not free to do what they want (outside of bedlam).
I believe Stephen Hawking recently said we need to start exploring space, but how can we when shit like this is still around? People being told how to live and how to enjoy things.
I have an idea to stop the starvation in North Korea, but it would face strong opposition by the irrational. Send all of the stray cats and dogs in the United States over to North Korea as foreign food aid. You know they'd tear that shit up.
Really...what's wrong with that? We just kill them here and dispose of the carcass, such a waste when there's millions of starving people just waiting for a dog-cat combo platter with fries.
I'll add NK to my "never visit this place" list.
I think we should make a million toy version of Kim Jong from Team America then drop them all on NK.
Yes, that would sure show them.
lol at pic
edit: ah crap let me resize it to a smaller size...done
LOL, Yoshi. Don't ever change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
China still loves Mao. He didn't become immediately denounced after his death like Stalin. As for the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, well that's an entirely different situation. Pol Pot was a lot more of a quick and bloody dictator, I think the reason being he knew he was on borrowed time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scourge
TLDR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scourge
LOL, yeah like these guys in ChinaQuote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
That's because you recieved a simpleton Reagan-era education of the world. Like Yoshi intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetman
Well George Washington & up to who knows Presidents kept slaves.Quote:
China still loves Mao. He didn't become immediately denounced after his death like Stalin.
They beat them, raped them, killed them, did whatever they wanted to them, all legal.
and let's not forget the Native Americans that they systematically killed throughout the years.
The shit Saddam & Kim Dong Jin or whatever the hell he's name did ain't shit to what the founding fathers did.
Yet the people of China/Russia/N.Korea etc were/are all FOOLS to have or to still believe in those leaders who were monsters, nothing like in the good ole USA.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
oh shit oh shit oh shit, POTY perhaps.