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http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc...ile/index.html
And we are in Iraq. I may like Bush and I may have wanted to go after Hussein, but N. Korea is a damn scary place. The leader of N. Korea is a nutjob and someone not to a) take lightly and b) not to be left alone. If they test a Long Range aka Intercontinental missile. My god.
Pretend you have WMDs and front about it = get attacked.
Actually have WMDs and test-fire them and shit on the global community = be left alone.
It's insane if there is any truth to the rumour that they are going to fire it over Japan first and then into the ocean. I mean, why not just testfire it straight into the ocean? I know they did it before 3 years ago, accident or not, still utter madness...
You and I both know there's more to it than that. North Korea was smart/devious enough to wait until the coalition was fairly busy before they started rattling their saber. Their time will come, and it won't be long.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
Their weader is so ronery, you can't bwame him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
We've known for a long time that DPRK was developing nukes. Once Bush got into office and started proclaiming the PNAC agenda and put North Korea into the "Axis of Evil", then all bets were off. He could have picked any of the three places to attack (since it is obvious now he was looking for reasons to attack instead of vice versa). After all he fucked the possibility of diplomacy with all three.
He chose Iraq for reasons unbenowst to us when there was tons of evidence that the DPRK and mullahs in Iran were a much bigger problem than Hussein. I really think if he chose to invade either of those it would have had much stronger evidence and much more support today.
lol @ "coalition". You forgot Poland.
News out of Japan and other places now. Its confirmed that they launched six missiles. The long range missile misfired.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202060,00.html
They launched all of them into the Sea of Japan.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13704198/
lol@Taepodong-2
Kim Il should post on tnl.
he already does. *looks at yoshi*
They just want attention. Oh, and some food.
N.K. is a world troll?
Right up there with your mom.
The only problem here is that this motherfucker seems to have no problems actually using weapons. I'm sure another reason we're not in North Korea to begin with is because people are afraid BabyFace-ko will actually fucking do something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshi
Of course, this is besides the money and bad intelligence involved in Iraq.
Look, Kim Jong Il poses next to no danger to the United States. None. The only Americans who should be afraid of DPRK missiles, troops, artillery, whatever are those stationed at the 38th parallel. That's why the only people you didn't hear overreacting to this whole situation was the South. They know what's going on, and they know the best way to respond to it is with silence.
yeah, and the fact that China sees North Korea as their sphere of interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoofNee
IBTN, because the long-range rocket test failed.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Kim Jong Il gets wrongly portrayed by the media. The wrong portrayal just happens to fit what Republicans want him to be portrayed as. He's not "nuts". He's intelligent and calculating. He's not going to launch nukes just for the hell of it. Would he if he were to be attacked? I tend to think not, but I think most people are unsure. That doesn't mean he's not dangerous.
LOL @ North Korea.
1) Even if they developed a long range weapon, they could only hit LA, and that wouldn't make much difference from how it is now.
2)Their military is starving, their people are starving, and half would defect the minute the US and allies declared war.
They are about as dangerous as the boil on Diff's ass.
orlyQuote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/wtfer/nk4.jpg
Thats not a surprising image. A state of war still exists between the United States/South Korea and North Korea.
lol @ WTFer trying to prove I'm wrong by using internal DPRK propaganda.
rofl.
Yeah because the NK political wing prints up that propaganda just as a joke. Those goofy little communists, always joking around.
Yeah Im south korean. This shit is not funny. Thats why I said N. Korea v. Pacific Rim. Not N. Korea v USA.; the reason I brought up Bush was his whole ... Axis of Evil speech. If he was serious about it ... wheres the help? They lauched more missiles today. Yet everyone in the UN sits on their ass and just nods disapprovingly. Hell Japan is pleading with the UN to do something. Chine is even bad mouthing N. Korea, wtf.
Well what is happening right now is exactly why the US can't really take hardcore action against NK. China and Russia back these fuckers. That pretty much settles it, we rely too much economically(extremely unfortunately) on Chinese goods, so if they are against the US on the issue, how do you realistically tackle the NK problem offensively? I don't think you do.
http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoSto...edca78fba8e9c6
From all reports I thought the N.Koreans did this against the will of China. And even China is pissed at N.Korea.
Well, that article I posted states that Russia and China rejected a 'draft' resolution by the Japs, US and GB to have sanctions against NK. It says that Russia and China want a weaker solution, whatever the hell that means. The UN sure does like to do alot of hard talk with not alot of follow through, that's all I know.
Shit I just read it Blaster.
WTF!?!
To your last sentance in your post ...
Truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster
I think the tension will die down quickly, for cryin out loud he launched a few missiles into the sea of Japan. This was NOT the first time they've done that. NK announced this testing beforehand, I don't think we should go too overboard.The US has detonated about 70 or so Nuclear weapons in the atmosphere above the Pacific Ocean, so how pissed off can we legitimately get?
p.s., I want to fuck your sig hardcore.
Meh, The only thing I'm worried about is when Japan launches it's robot war on the USA.
I heard Kim Jong Il hatched from a golden egg up in the mountains.
Considering the point of the UN is solving problems through diplomacy, I'm surprised you (and tens of millions of other Americans) are surprised by that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster
=\
yeah Blaster, that is kind of how the UN works.
What do you want them to do, form a unified army, and kick peoples asses for whatever reason?
Oh what a great idea that'd be.
yeah seeing as how diplomacy works so well.
I mean look how well it worked for WW1 and WW2. We gave Hitler Poland and Romania. Not like he wanted all of Europe and Asia or anything.
Because a super army is a great idea too.
Diplomacy does it's fucking job, it takes care of what it can. Sometimes it can't, get over it, if we never tried diplomacy things would be a lot worse. Use your head.
Diplomacy isn't the same as appeasement, tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
Diplomacy and containment killed the Soviet Union, sank apartheid in South Africa, and *was* working against Saddam Hussein. it obviously won't solve every problem but I'd rather it be tried and exhausted before war.
They print it up to keep the population in line, not show off policy.Quote:
Yeah because the NK political wing prints up that propaganda just as a joke. Those goofy little communists, always joking around.
Disagree. If that was the sole purpose of the UN, the resolutions they create wouldn't contain use of force terms, and ultimatums heretofore. Guys come on, the UN should not be taken seriously at all, at least on military matters and especially on issues of U.S. national security, becuase most of the members on that panel don't give a damn about our national security. The UN was the body that laid the sanctions on Iraq, and the USA was really the only country to follow it, as the other members(France, Germany, Russia, China) basically ignored the sanctions and bought alot of oil and sold alot of weapons to Iraq during this so-called sanctioning period. Hard talk no follow through.Quote:
Originally Posted by diffusionx
No, they dont care about our national security. They care about their own interests.
Do you seriously think we give a shit about Germany's national security?
Well we do only to the point where it would affect our interests.
The point is that peace is peace. Democratic nations tend not to wage war with each other. If I am making money off you and you are making money off me we probably won't fight. Opening paths of diplomacy and trade is a huge, important step to peace.
By comparison, war is inherently destabilizing. Iraq has seriously fucked up the entire ME, possibly for a long time. It has seriously harmed the "battle of hearts and minds" that we were supposed to be fighting with the terrorists. We can go attack the entire world but I wager if we do we won't be around for very long.
edit: Im no dove, mind you - sometimes war is absolutely necessary and I support it then. But I contend that it can be avoided almost 100% of the time through the use of guys like the UN.
It'll happen when Sony gets around to copying this Nintendo accessory:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
http://www.silicium.org/images/catal...es/nes_rob.gif
Well lets see they are going to fire more missiles. They have them ready or so N.Korea says. I hope to god you guys and the UN are right and diplomacy will work against a man who doesn't give two shits. If not my family will fucking die. Yeah my real family lives in South Korea and some of my friends in the Air Force are stationed there. So I'm not a fucking tool. I am seriously concerned.
You're a moron, these people are not the Iraqis. They're hardcore indoctrinated and as long as Kim Jong Il breathes they will fight for him. Sure, the minute he croaks everyone in the North will cheer and denounce him vehemently just like what happened with Stalin. But, until that day, they're his.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff_Pocoroba
Also to you idiots saying "RAH RAH, THERE NEEDS TO BE STRICTER SANCTIONS!" seriously, what are you going to take from them that they aren't already seriously lacking? And as for China, well, they're the ones who gives the most aid so it is their decision whether or not they want a stricter resolution. It's not like the US or Japan was engaging in heavy trade with the DPRK.
Oh no! No more ferry service between the North and Japan! Pift, how many North Koreans do you think were actually being allowed on those ferries in the first place?
I agree Gozen, but I'm just concerned for my family. So wtf can I do other than pray?
There hasn't been widespread concern from the South, atleast none reported by any major news service. Besides, I'd think as a Korean you'd be smart enough to know that the DPRK's biggest threat to Seoul are the huge fucking artillery emplacements that have been pointed South for decades. I don't see why you'd suddenly get so scared about something that is essentially about as dangerous as a V2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
As for diplomacy working, well, how about you take this experience you have and insight and tell the government you support now (the US) to stop the bullshit posturing that got N. Korea's feathers in a ruffle again to begin with.
Why the sudden concern? The danger posed by these missiles is no greater to S. Korea than was already present. If it's the thought of eminent war that's got you all shook up, well, take some comfort in that no one in the diplomatic world thinks that this is some sort of precursor to war, but rather a bid for international attention that worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
I shall do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
It is and you know what it did work. Cause I'm concerned that I should go back and see my motherland. Your right I should be more worried about 38th parellel. BUt its that I am here and far away from that crazed leader of the North. Now he MIGHT Might have intercontinental missiles thats the fear I realized.Quote:
Originally Posted by gozen
So your correct I shouldn't be all that worried. But yeah I will email and contact the government. I have already on a few issues ... guess a few more won't hurt.
Advocate... how many miles is Seoul from the DMZ?
He doesn't need intercontinental missiles to turn South Korea into an ashpile.
That is what g0zen was getting at.
no I understand that, but I live in the USA now. So my fear is that if he gets those missiles up and running theres no place for me to hide. I guess. My emotions got the better of me.
Personally I think Gozen's got the solution in his sig.
Edited to take anger out.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Simply put, North Korea does not have the logisitics for sustaining combat with anything more than a single front. As it has been proven time and time again since the first NK and Vietnam conflict, you can't be the USA in a conventional war and that's what they are trained to fight. I would give them, about 2 weeks before they starting to give up en masse. Why is it people forget that Iraq at the time of the 1st war had the 4th largest military in the world? It's seems as if our own people have to make an excuse for everything.
Or we probably could just fax them a color picture of Chuck Norris
Or you could take your head out of your ass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
You first, Mr. History. :rolleyes:
Anywho, here is our latest new weapon that we can shove up NK's ass.
I like to call this the "Kim-Buster"
http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/5914/rattlrs7rx.jpg
That, my friends is a triple super sonic cruise missile capable of traveling 500 nautical miles (920 km) in less than 15 minutes for time critcal strikes. Can you say manhunter?Quote:
Ash says the YJ102R has six times the specific thrust of the Pratt & Whitney J58 that powered the Lockheed SR-71, and will accelerate the missile to M3 without reheat. The airframe is similar in shape and size to an SR-71 engine nacelle, but the YJ102R is only 330mm (13in) in diameter yet produces half the dry thrust of the four times larger J58, at 6% of the weight, he says.
3500+ miles between N Korea and Alaska. A cruise missile launched from Nome or whereever would take something like 2.5 hours flying at mach 3 to get there. an ICBM would take about 30 minutes. Theres your Kim Buster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff_Pocoroba
I like how the missile is all shiny and has the Navy logo emblazoned on it. You just don't see that kind of design sense being put into things that are meant to blow the fuck up very often these days.
I didn't want to start a new thread. But now N. Korea has started Underground Nuclear Testing.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc...est/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,218699,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15190745/
Fears rise in the region. I have little fear recently, due to news updates and basically all N. Korea's allies condeming their tests. China apparently got word and told the US about N. Korea's plans. Nice. Pacific war here we come.
I amost moved to Korea back in August. I was packed and had a job lined up and everything. Right about now I'm glad I didn't go.
North Korea, and India, and Pakistan, and every other country that has nuked up the past decade, is relying on MAD here. They have no intentions of using it. Kim Jong Il might be a nut in the "crazy dictator" way (chip off the old block) but he is shrewd and cunning and has outfoxed this country every step of the way.
NK and Iran, as I have said before, looked at Iraq and saw what happened if you don't have nukes. Can you blame them? These countries aren't going to take our sabre-rattling and the administration doesn't have the diplomatic skill or will to convince them nuking up isn't an option.
This time Bush is letting others be diplomatic. He's relying on Chine, Russia, and other Pacific rim countries in telling NK its wrong. Dunno if I support this course of action.
BTW that explaination was paraphased like hell. Its more complicated than that, but you get the drift.
At the same time, I heard somewhere that the bomb itself was a joke. This may or may not calm everyone down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff
I think he should change it. It's really NSFW, at least in the sense that it embarrasses the hell out of me. I have to shut sigs off just for his.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaster
A 5-15 Kiloton explosion is nothing to sneeze at. Sure it's not your garden variety Cold War City Killer, but guess what America's first yield was? You guessed it. Hiroshima bomb estimated yield was 15 kilotons. Nagasaki they upped it to around 21.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoofNee
Besides, NK doesn't need a megaton bomb (OMG Nintendo Megaton!). All they need is a bigger stick to threaten the South Koreans with, and possilby the Japanese.
Now you can expect a whole ton more money to be poured into the anti missile programs from Taiwan and Japan and S. Korea.
Agreed, then.
Not to mention I hear some North Korean soldiers were wandering over the border pissing off some Southern Soldiers the other day.
Correct, but most reports are saying it isn't that large.Quote:
Originally Posted by Error
Ya, SK soldiers fired some warning shots at a group of NKs who went into the DMZ or something.
"CNN's Matthew Chance said that Moscow said Russian equipment in the area had confirmed an underground test.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said that the force of the blast was five to 15 kilotons."
If it's not 5-15 then the Russians got it wrong, and then CNN got it wrong from the Russians.
If it is smaller then that proves to be just as awkward, so long as it actually succeeded in going off. The North Koreans may take this knowledge and try to adapt it to a tactical battlefield weapon.
Plus Japan has sent their jets to the seas between Japan and SK to test the air for radiation. Nothing reported on that front yet.
Wait until Godzilla appears.
There's your whole "test firing missiles into the Sea of Japan" justification right there!
Oh but Iran with their thimble full of enriched uranium is the bigger threat people! Why can't you see that?
Seriously though, a nuclear NK is not a good thing. The region has been set back about 50 years now. I'd consider any chances that might have existed for re-unification or even normalized relations are completely out the window now. The North Korean people will continue to live in misery, be tortured to death in secret prisons, and their children resort to cannibalism before they starve completely.
I agree that Iran is worse, but NK is bad due to them testing openly missles and testing underground.
Oh I know Iran has them and we should be on guard and really go after them, but they haven't tested a ICBM yet. They have a crazy ruler, Iran does; but NK has a whack job.
Iran has no nuclear weapons. Neither leader is a nut job. They're acting in the interests of self-preservation.
The US really screwed the pooch on this one. I mean, I don't think even Bill Kristol or Hugh Hewitt would say we did a good job on North Korea since 2001.
LOL, my friend you just fell in the sarchasm. NK is leaps and bounds worse than Iran, and always have been. They are completely closed society, whereas Iran atleast has a reform movement of some type (although its been steadily fading). North Koreans know ONLY what the state tells them about the West, and it's all bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
Iran has nothing. Nothing now, nor the capability to make even a single weapon for atleast 10 years. The IAEA has been screaming this from the rafters while at the same time warning of the looming spectre of Pyongyang. Both countries have provocative leaders but only one of these said leaders has any power (Kim Jong Il) and he also happens to only be the one with what we now believe are real nuclear weapons. There is only one threat, and that is North Korea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
For the sake of curiosity, what would you suggest the US or other nations do instead of their current course of action?Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Iran is most likely bluffing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
Oh, and none of these countries will ever have ICBM's so you need not worry. N Korea has longer range missiles but their eons away from ever developing an effective ICBM delivery system.
With the DPRK? Two party talks. Yes, it essentially rewards NK for being assholes, but it's really the only way to crack this nut. The other nations involved have been saying that two-party talks are the way to go, and I essentially agree. However, if it turns out that NK does INDEED have the nuclear capability they're presenting themselves as having then two party talks are probably too little too late. The UN sanctions route is the inevitable, but it should involve the PRC stepping up and committing to them, because really they're the only ones who're supplying the DPRK anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-K
I think the PRC may be instigating the situation a little bit because they probably would love a war to start so they could whip North Korea's ass and annex the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Why the hell would China want to annex a tiny, scraggly little nation of 25 million mostly impoverished, uneducated Koreans?
China does not want to deal with the humanitarian chaos that would come from these people getting their first taste of society. Stop getting your foreign policy analyses from videogames.
Yawn, wake me up when big Kim can do more then set off fireworks on top of some uranium.
Plus they steal the trains man, the trains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
I thought they just made the tracks.
This my friend, is a colossal waste of money. We don't need to make new missiles. We've got plenty. Just because technology advances, doesn't mean we should gun-up all our shit. This is how we got in this whole nuclear mess in the first place. It gives rednecks (and their reformed cousins: the mid-west) a huge hard on; and since we all know nothing gets done without the approval of 'middle america', it keeps happening. They keep telling us there's a big cloud looming over us (Japs, Commies, whatever), and we all live the same lives. This time it's terrorists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff_Pocoroba
If anyone is going to listen to anything I say, listen to this: TERRORISTS ARE NOT A THREAT TO YOU. The odds of you being killed by terrorists is less than you being killed by sharks.
Bunch of scared-ass pussies. Live your lives and don't pay attention to this bullshit. :icepick:
For all you skeptics out there, don't worry, Bush will find a way to connect this to the war on terror.
He already did, claiming NK has been selling nuclear material wholesale to Syria and Iran.
No, I mean really connect it. To the American people. The way they all know the war on terror has something to do with Iraq though if you ask a common American for a reason, they can't give you one.
I agree in a sense, but I would counter that many civilian technological advances have come from military research. To just throw that all away would be foolhardy, really we need defense spending to be done responsibility instead of just being a trough of taxpayer dollars for the Halliburton, Boeing, and NG to gorge from.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
There are those who say the arms race was a big smokescreen, but I tend to think there was a need during the time to maintain a nuclear arsenal just so that the enemy would be assured of M.A.D. and no one would pull the trigger. However, after the signing of the NPT, I agree that we should have completely gotten out of the nuclear arms business. But, Bush pulled us out of the NPT so he could flush money down the tubes for his 'magic missile shield' which doesn't work. So really, we're back in the wild west days of nuclear proliferation. The US does next to nil to stop proliferation other than use it as a false pretext for invading people. So, essentially, we are the main architects of our current nuclear worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
True, but that doesn't mean we should just let others die because the chances of it being us are slim. Certainly none of us should live our lives fearing of terrorist attacks or North Korean nuclear strikes, but we can't simply close ourselves off from the world either. Fear is not the answer, but neither is putting your head in the sand.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
It's more land then they have in an already over-crowded country. China wouldn't have to be nice about it either, ther'd be problems but they could possibly just treat the country like a colony and give incentives for it's own citizens to move there in "nicer zones" while they could keep the original populace isolated.
Regardless, I'd bet you if N. Korea started a war, China probably would use the oppurtunity to show off their newer military tech (like the first Persian Gulf War).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohron
What? Have you ever looked at a map? Do you know the size of North Korea relative to China? Have you ever looked at a population density map of China?
LOL! Understatement of the fucking century. Germany is still feeling effects of introducing East Germany into society, whoever eventually gets North Korea is gonna have an even rougher time of it. Everything China does with North Korea is about making sure they don't end up with a refugee crisis on their hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohron
I reiterate:
Quote:
Stop getting your foreign policy analyses from videogames.
So... you mean to say I can't blame the whole situation on The Patriots?Quote:
Originally Posted by diffx
http://www.wzl.be/users/Tettenman/im...0jong%20il.bmpQuote:
Originally Posted by andyrose
A majority of China is not really a livable country, something close to 80% which is why most of the population is in the Eastern part of the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
West Germany was not a known totalitarian state that doesn't give much of a shit about most of it's own citizens, nevermind ones from other countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
What video game are we talking about BTW?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
Battlefield 2 is the only thing that fits your ludicrous comments.
Where are the giant enemy crabs in all this?
I tend to just post how I feel and let someone else do the specifics thing; which is pretty much what you did here. What you posted is the core of what I was really getting at. We should be aware of what's happening, but we (as citizens) don't need to analyze it through a microscope, or live in fear.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
This really isn't China's intentions with the DPRK. For all intents and purposes they tolerate the regime in the North for two reasons, 1.) whenever it rattles the saber like it is now the U.S.'s attention in the region becomes focused with thick blinders on NK and drifts away from Taiwan, which China REALLY wants and 2.) the last thing the PRC wants is a border with a US satellite state (which is what S. Korea still essentially is, but has been bucking at a bit). Bottom line, they don't want US troops on a border with China. So the DPRK serves an important buffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohron
That's why you saw China come around after this nuclear fiasco and agree to condemnation and sanctions. Sure, they like it when Kim Jong Il stirs shit. But they don't want him with a nuke anymore than the South Koreans or the Japs do. This is important, because they're really the only ones who can impose an effective sanction on what is one of the world's most closed societies.
Doubtful. They would gain a lot more if they just sat back and let the U.S., NATO, or a Coalition force do the hard fighting while they sit back and hold the northern border. Then at the end, when Kim Jong Il flees to Beijing looking for asylum, they can strip the midget naked and leave him prostrate on the floor of the UN general assembly. China then declares victory in the war and demands its rights to keep N. Korea a sovereign state. Naturally, this is all complete speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohron
Actually I thought you were talking about Mercenaries. Its set in North Korea and one of the storylines involves China going to war with South Korea to see who gets posession of the North.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff-chan
LOL @ MILITARY SPENDING.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff_Pocoroba
A country stuck in the 1940s vs. the rest of the world?Quote:
Originally Posted by Advocate
Weak, indeed. Don't think of him as no threat at all, though. A bomb's a bomb.
If North Korea really does have their fingers on a nuclear trigger, then we can no longer treat any threat they make as entirely hollow.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoofNee
Hence my second sentence.
Then it isn't a weak threat. Is it?
NK now says 'sanctions will be considered an act of war'. I love how they always have anonymous spokesmen.
also this might be of interest to some: http://www.korea-dpr.com/users/norway/nyheter-kctv.htm shows webcast of NK's official newshour with 1 day delay.
Well Japan sanctioned anyway. Read the articles. Nothing has happened yet. Dunno I think its a threat.