Three Great Game Design Evils

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Originally Posted by avatar

Oh please. Most games in 1995 have bad 3D angles becuase camera angles are hard to work with. It wasn't a design choice. It was a lack of knowledge. The camera angles today(like CG) are much better.

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I seem to recall discussion about Mario Sunshine's camera, as well as a dozen or so modern games. This is 2006. Is it still a lack of knowledge?

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You said you didn't like Xenosaga. I said of course you wouldn't becuase it relies on cutscenes(which you don't like)and is a bad example for this discussion.

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Discussion, exactly. "Don't like, don't buy" doesn't mean people can't talk about it.

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Originally Posted by chris

Then fledgling? Hardly, Dragon Warrior was huge and the FF series had already saved Square and built up to the wildly popular IV in years past. But regardless, I see no issues in comparing stories from different periods. If it's good it'll always be good.

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I was referring to the CD-ROM medium being fledgling technology. But since you brought it up, how was Dragon Warrior's story better told than Lunar's?

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That's really the only other thing there is in most JRPGs.

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Well, I wasn't specifically referring to RPGs exclusively, as cut scenes are used all over the place. That's why I mentioned RE, Metroid Prime, and Half-Life. But yeah, the RPG genre is pretty limited in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Melf

I was referring to the CD-ROM medium being fledgling technology.

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Oops, I misread that. My bad.

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But since you brought it up, how was Dragon Warrior's story better told than Lunar's?

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I personally don't feel it was at all. The original was what got me into RPGs (before I got that free from Nintendo Power I was all, "Action games only, none of that story bullshit!") and Dragon Warrior III did some awesome stuff for its time but that's about it. I wouldn't play them today and even DQVIII bored me.

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Originally Posted by Melf

I seem to recall discussion about Mario Sunshine's camera, as well as a dozen or so modern games. This is 2006. Is it still a lack of knowledge?

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Yes it is still hard. Why the fuck does everyone think camera angles should be as easy to implement as flipping a switch. 3d camera angles will always be a problem with developers and chances are there will be some games that will always have camera problems.

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Originally Posted by Melf

Discussion, exactly. "Don't like, don't buy" doesn't mean people can't talk about it.

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But your opinion about the game is pretty much worthless becuase you dislike the core of the game. It's like someone who doesn't like football, doesn't play football games,etc... entering a thread about Madden.

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Originally Posted by avatar

Yes it is still hard. Why the fuck does everyone thing camera angles should be as easy to implement as flipping a switch. 3d camera angles will always be a problem with developers and chances are there will be some games that will always have camera problems.

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Yes, but it still shouldn't be as much an issue now as it was in 1995. Even the biggest franchises today, like Ninja Gaiden (not everyone loved the camera) and even the formally perfect Mario franchise still suffer from this ailment.

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But your opinion about the game is pretty much worthless becuase you dislike the core of the game. It's like someone who doesn't like football, doesn't play football games,etc... entering a thread about Madden.

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Lol, we'd have to close just about every thread on TNL is this were enforced.

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Originally Posted by Melf

Yes, but it still shouldn't be as much an issue now as it was in 1995. Even the biggest franchises today, like Ninja Gaiden (not everyone loved the camera) and even the formally perfect Mario franchise still suffer from this ailment.

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It's not. Yes a few major games have dropped this generation with crappy camera controls but overall the quality of camera angle design and implication this generation should be applauded. Not complained about.

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Originally Posted by Melf

Lol, we'd have to close just about every thread on TNL is this were enforced.

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I know. ;)

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Originally Posted by Melf

Yes, but it still shouldn't be as much an issue now as it was in 1995.

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It isn't. Cameras have gotten much better, even though they still have a long way to go.

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Originally Posted by sethsez

It isn't. Cameras have gotten much better, even though they still have a long way to go.

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They're better yes, but I'd say it's still more of an issue than it should be by this point. Chances are, we'll still be having this discussion when the PS3 is on its way out the door. :(

So what. I doubt power is really going to be a factor in how to effectively design the camera angles in your game.