Baby Dies in Bucket of Mom's Vomit

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

You just summed up everything that is wrong with 21st century society. No one wants to take responsibility for their actions, so they think its ok if others act like irresponsible idiots too.

People should always, always be held accountable for their actions, by themselves if by no one else. This is why abortions in cases other than rape and incest are a fucking joke. This woman deserves to be locked up for whatever the maximum sentence for child negligence is. I hope it's long enough to get her to menopaus.

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I'll pass on the abortion/choice debate but I'll agree entirely with the responsibility thing which seems to be of epidemic proportions across the country. Something is always someone else's fault and the mere fact that "McDonald's Made Me Fat" lawsuits are even allowed speaks volumes about personal responsibility being at an all time low.

Sure, I feel bad for the chick, but if you've got a 4 month old sleeping next to you in a homeless shelter then you have no business getting trashed for anyone reason. She should get what she deserves, she cost someone the chance to live.

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Originally Posted by Calliander

No, really, it's not. I contacted my editor who said it was fine.

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I win.

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Originally Posted by Calliander

Look, I'm sticking up for Opaque here. I can't stand him.

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I <3 U though.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

lol Opaque totally let Icarusfall off the hook as the biggest idiot in this thread too.

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And yet an editor for a big time publisher agrees with me.

Funny how that works.

As Carlos Mencia puts it: "Deet-de-dee!"

That poor kid had one totally fucked up way to go. The mother should not get off for this. :mad: Five or even three years in jail is plenty for this, but I'd give her probation after that sentence- namely with the conditions of getting a job and staying off of alcohol.

The burden of preventing this was on her. If she KNEW she was going to pass out from getting so damn drunk, she should've put the baby in a better place- not where she could fall into the bucket and drown in upchuck and toxic cleaning solution. What a Dumb Ass (not just a "dumb ass", since this kind of stupidity demands the capital letters, as in an official title).

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

If you aren't ready to be a parent, you don't have sex and get yourself knocked up.

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QFT. Since she had the baby, she should've given the baby up for adoption or foster care. Someone that motherfucking irresponsible does not deserve to have a child.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

And yet an editor for a big time publisher agrees with me.

Funny how that works.

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The editor is an idiot. It's not proper English. Separate clauses have to be separated by a comma. Anytime you could split one sentence into two, a comma belongs in the middle.

Are you an editor?

If not I don't see how you could possibly think you're correct and he's not. This isn't even me saying you're stupid; but come on, his job is to know shit like this. I'm sure he couldn't tell you how to do your job either.

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Originally Posted by gameoverDude

As Carlos Mencia puts it: "Deet-de-dee!"

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That one statement nullified anything intelligent that may have been found in the rest of your post.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Are you an editor?

If not I don't see how you could possibly think you're correct and he's not. This isn't even me saying you're stupid; but come on, his job is to know shit like this. I'm sure he couldn't tell you how to do your job either.

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I teach college English. It's my job to know this shit, and I disagree with you.

Fuck this dead kid in it's stupid fucking ass, that shit is old news. Let's talk intarnet grammar!

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Are you an editor?

If not I don't see how you could possibly think you're correct and he's not. This isn't even me saying you're stupid; but come on, his job is to know shit like this. I'm sure he couldn't tell you how to do your job either.

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I am not an editor, because I am better at math than English. Apparently, I am better than this guy at both though, because I am doing his job better than him.

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Originally Posted by flux=rad

I teach college English. It's my job to know this shit, and I disagree with you.

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Those who can't, teach.

Even if there's a better way to write it, if an editor says it's acceptable, I'm going to have to say it's fine the way it is.

I like your logic. Using it, George Bush is better at everything a President does than anyone who isn't President, because he has the job, and they don't.

I don't get all the queefing over one comma in one post, but is it possible to move all relevant posts about it to fight club? It could become awesome.

Your analogy is completely inacurate (like every analogy I've ever seen you make). Presidents are elected and therefor it doesn't matter if they're actually qualified for a position, it just matters that the average american prefers them. A better analogy would be saying that computer technicians are better with computers than all non computer technicians just becuase they have the job; which I'm sure isn't the case.

Still, while I'm sure there's people out there who are better at editing than this editor, you for sure are not one of them. Becuase if you're better at math than an editor is at editing you'd be working for NASA.

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Originally Posted by Kano on the Phone

That one statement nullified anything intelligent that may have been found in the rest of your post.

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Like Hell it did. TNL isn't CNN, remember.

Mencia uses that in his act as a derisive interjection when he is talking about someone who is a total moron. Ms. DeJesus here frankly meets that qualification.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Still, while I'm sure there's people out there who are better at editing than this editor, you for sure are not one of them. Becuase if you're better at math than an editor is at editing you'd be working for NASA.

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lol what?

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Your analogy is completely inacurate (like every analogy I've ever seen you make). Presidents are elected and therefor it doesn't matter if they're actually qualified for a position, it just matters that the average american prefers them. A better analogy would be saying that computer technicians are better with computers than all non computer technicians just becuase they have the job; which I'm sure isn't the case.

Still, while I'm sure there's people out there who are better at editing than this editor, you for sure are not one of them. Becuase if you're better at math than an editor is at editing you'd be working for NASA.

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The problem is that you haven't even talked to the editor. Calliander told you that he talked to an editor. We don't know what the hell Calliander actually said about your sentence (did he give him the entire sentence? did he just tell him the basic idea of the sentence?). I've explained in pretty good detail why I think your sentence is wrong. I have yet to hear a counter-argument from anyone. "My dad says I'm right and you're wrong" is not a counter-argument.

An editor for a large publishing house (A) is about as high as it gets in editing. Working for NASA (B) is about as high as it gets for math.

Which means A=B.

If you're better at math than you are at english, and you're better at english than an editor, then wouldn't you be default be more than good enough at math to work at NASA?

Yoshi = C

C > A
A = B
C > B

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Originally Posted by flux=rad

The problem is that you haven't even talked to the editor. Calliander told you that he talked to an editor. We don't know what the hell Calliander actually said about your sentence (did he give him the entire sentence? did he just tell him the basic idea of the sentence?). I've explained in pretty good detail why I think your sentence is wrong. I have yet to hear a counter-argument from anyone. "My dad says I'm right and you're wrong" is not a counter-argument.

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I said the "and" took care of connecting the two thoughts.

I also agree with Calliander and his example of how my sentence could have been truely ambiguous. Since my sentence wasn't ambigious the way it was written, there should be no confusion.

Your logic is just fucking terrible. There are probably millions of people who are equally near-perfect at grammar. There are a few thousand that are at the same level for math. Somehow, none of those millions that know grammar better than this editor got his job.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

An editor for a large publishing house (A) is about as high as it gets in editing. Working for NASA (B) is about as high as it gets for math.

Which means A=B.

If you're better at math than you are at english, and you're better at english than an editor, then wouldn't you be default be more than good enough at math to work at NASA?

Yoshi = C

C > A
A = B
C > B

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He's the most qualified person in the world to answer this question, yet you do not know who he is, what company he works for, his actual position, how long he's worked there, or really anything about the man at all?

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Originally Posted by Opaque

An editor for a large publishing house (A) is about as high as it gets in editing. Working for NASA (B) is about as high as it gets for math.

Which means A=B.

If you're better at math than you are at english, and you're better at english than an editor, then wouldn't you be default be more than good enough at math to work at NASA?

Yoshi = C

C > A
A = B
C > B

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At this point it's official: Whether or not I'm an idiot is no longer relevant. :lol:

Agreed, Icarus. You should send Opaque a thank you card.

If a million people said they were better than you at your job, would that mean they really were?

Just becuase you say you're a better editor than this guy doesn't mean you are. You have no educational backround or work experience to back up your claim. And no, talking out of your ass doesn't count either.

Ok, back on topic. No more grammar discussions in the dead baby thread.

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Originally Posted by flux=rad

He's the most qualified person in the world to answer this question, yet you do not know who he is, what company he works for, his actual position, how long he's worked there, or really anything about the man at all?

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I didn't say he's the most qualified person in the world.

I said an editor for a publishing house is better at editing than Yoshi. Which is true no matter how you look at it.

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Originally Posted by flux=rad

I teach college English. It's my job to know this shit, and I disagree with you.

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IAWTP.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

Those who can't, teach.

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I guess you should be teaching grammar then, eh?

Back on topic:

I guess life in prison would be meaningless for her, as she already has the death of her baby on her conscience, but she deserves some time in prison. Hopefully it will at least clean her the hell up so she doesn't act so irresponsibly in the future.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

I didn't say he's the most qualified person in the world.

I said an editor for a publishing house is better at editing than Yoshi. Which is true no matter how you look at it.

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It has nothing to do with editing. It's one God damned example of English grammar. I, along with Melf and flux=rad, am right, and you and the editor are wrong. Everyone who graduated from high school had the education to know that a comma divides clauses of a sentence.

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Originally Posted by flux=rad

We don't know what the hell Calliander actually said about your sentence (did he give him the entire sentence? did he just tell him the basic idea of the sentence?).

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I linked him the thread.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

At this point it's official: Whether or not I'm an idiot is no longer relevant. :lol:

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Yeah, honestly, I retract all statements made in defense of Opaque. *backpeddles away*

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Originally Posted by gameoverDude

The burden of preventing this was on her. If she KNEW she was going to pass out from getting so damn drunk, she should've put the baby in a better place- not where she could fall into the bucket and drown in upchuck and toxic cleaning solution.

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Have you ever drank a lot and knew you were going to pass out from getting so damn drunk?

But yeah, she should have left the baby with whoever was watching it. I love that she didn't wake up until 2:30pm the next day.

If it's an indicator, I didn't wake up until 3:45 today... :/

Your compassion for Opaque is heartwarming.

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Originally Posted by Opaque

I didn't say he's the most qualified person in the world.

I said an editor for a publishing house is better at editing than Yoshi. Which is true no matter how you look at it.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

It has nothing to do with editing. It's one God damned example of English grammar. I, along with Melf and flux=rad, am right, and you and the editor are wrong. Everyone who graduated from high school had the education to know that a comma divides clauses of a sentence.

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Originally Posted by Calliander

I linked him the thread.



Yeah, honestly, I retract all statements made in defense of Opaque. *backpeddles away*



Have you ever drank a lot and knew you were going to pass out from getting so damn drunk?

But yeah, she should have left the baby with whoever was watching it. I love that she didn't wake up until 2:30pm the next day.

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

Your compassion for Opaque is heartwarming.

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Originally Posted by Kano on the Phone

Ok, back on topic. No more grammar discussions in the dead baby thread.

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To be fair I was making that last comment as you posted yours.

Can we start talking about dead babies again?

Remember Trainspotting? That was awesome...

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Can we start talking about dead babies again?

Remember Trainspotting? That was awesome...

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If by awesome you mean disgusting and frightening.

Yeah, whatever.

Today would be a good day to stop posting on TNL and pass the torche to Opaque.

And to get back on track...

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Originally Posted by Yoshi

People should always, always be held accountable for their actions, by themselves if by no one else. This is why abortions in cases other than rape and incest are a fucking joke.

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That sure did work out well in this case, didn't it?

Raising a child should not be punishment for a mistake. Not because I feel that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions, but because in many cases the child is the one who gets the brunt of the punishment, not the often negligent parent. If a child is going to be brought into the world it should be for a reason better than righteous indignation.

I agree that people should be held accountable for their actions, and this woman definitely deserves to be in jail. But she's a sterling example of why I think "you fucked up, now deal with the kid whether you want to or not" is a bad philosophy, even if I understand and in some ways agree with the premises behind it. It puts too much emphasis on punishing the mother and not enough on the future of the possible child. Nice in theory, but flawed in real life.

This is exactly the reason why dogma never works.

I'm late to the party, but I have to chime in that this is one of the most horrible things I've ever read. :(

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Originally Posted by Opaque

When you get drunk off gin under age instead of taking care of your fucking baby or finding a job.

I feel sorry for the baby, but this chick deserves to be behind bars for being such a royal fuck up.

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IAWTP 100%.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

You're one seriously self-righteous son of a bitch, you know that? I'll bet you never got drunk or shirked your responsibilities. If I was homeless I'd be drinking too, baby or no.

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I know you've clarified your point since this post, but anyone that thinks that is a piece of shit just like that stupid cunt that drowned her kid in a bucket of her puke.

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Like Finch said, bad things happen. Sometimes we don't have to assign blame to things. The punishment is redundant.

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You have a kid, you're responsible for it. Period. You don't get drunk, yak into a bucket, and knock your kid into it while you're passed out. It's time to grow up.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

Murders with their camoe

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Your spelling usually doesn't bother me because I know what you're trying to say, but in this case I have no idea.

Murderers with their Camo. Camo = Camoflage. I think.

He said "Murders with their camoe." Maybe he meant "Camel toe"...?

I thought the same thing, but it'd be awful hard to aim straight with a nut-splitter messin' up your business.

He must have meant 'camoe'. In a European way. "Colour" and all that.

camo

sorry about the e. I took a year of french and all it did was make me stick "e"s in bad places.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

He must have meant 'camoe'. In a European way. "Colour" and all that.

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Easy! *said in a very British and manly tone*

This story is horrible. It hits close b/c my sister was homeless with a child at 17. She lives in England in a house, her kids are wonderful. Saying that the kid would definitely be fucked up is wrong.

That's true. Paige and Dean are great kids.

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Originally Posted by Atlas

This story is horrible. It hits close b/c my sister was homeless with a child at 17. She lives in England in a house, her kids are wonderful. Saying that the kid would definitely be fucked up is wrong.

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But your sister isn't this woman, and this woman was clearly incapable of taking care of her baby in any capacity whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by sethsez

But your sister isn't this woman, and this woman was clearly incapable of taking care of her baby in any capacity whatsoever.

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I understand that, the point I was making was that the kid had a chance. You aren't only your parents.

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Originally Posted by Atlas

I understand that, the point I was making was that the kid had a chance. You aren't only your parents.

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When you're an infant you kind of are.

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Originally Posted by Atlas

Easy! *said in a very British and manly tone*

This story is horrible. It hits close b/c my sister was homeless with a child at 17. She lives in England in a house, her kids are wonderful. Saying that the kid would definitely be fucked up is wrong.

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Did she go out drinking at 18 while in a shelter, so much that she was puking and passed out until the next AFTERNOON?

I doubt it.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised at all. Her sister had it pretty rough.

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Originally Posted by Wildkat

Did she go out drinking at 18 while in a shelter, so much that she was puking and passed out until the next AFTERNOON?

I doubt it.

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I couldn't tell you. She was 17 & homeless. I didn't really see her around that time. I do know the baby's father was an alcoholic at the time.

Yes, the girl was very, very, very wrong. She killed her child. She was neglectful, she shouldn't have had a child if she wasn't willing to look after it. My whole point is that a child could have grown up to be something other than a fuck up.

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Originally Posted by Nomi

That's pretty fucking harsh, shidoshi. SO you're saying that condoms and birth control just shouldn't be invented, because if you're not in a situation to be a super parent you shouldn't be having sex?

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I'm not sure I understand the argument you're making (how am I saying birth control shouldn't have been invented?), so I'll just say this: if you aren't ready to take up the responsibility of a baby should you or your partnet get pregnant (with or without the use of birth control), then yes, of course you shouldn't be having sex. I mean, that's kind of a no brainer to me. Sex, in its primary function, is to have children, so if you're going to be doing something that is MEANT for the creation of a child, fun or not, if you aren't ready to deal with the child should it be created, then you shouldn't be doing it.

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My cousin has a kid at 18. She had been on birth control for two years and was careful about interaction from medication. Since she doesn't believe in abortion, yeah, she kept the child. Is she trash? Are the girls who do give their babies up trash for not 'manning up' and being a parent?

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Is your cousin going out and getting drunk off of her ass instead of taking care of her kid? If so, then yeah, she's trash. If not, then I never said that girls that get knocked up are trash - I said THIS girl is trash, for far more than that. I also said nothing negative about girls who decide they need to give up their babies or whatever. If you HAVE a baby, and KEEP the baby, then you should TAKE CARE of the baby. That's what I said.

I think you're getting a bit over-emotional about what I said without fully reading what I said.

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I'm not defending this girl; I absolutely don't think teenagers should be drinking like that, let alone if they had a child. But seeing as how she's in a shelter because she had nowhere else to go and was clearly pretty freaked out, I don't see how you guys just don't find that remotely worthy of being sad about for her in even the slightest sense.

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Sorry, but I'm not going to feel sad about some girl who'd rather be selfish and have her fun than actually take care of her kid. Yeah, I'm not in her place, so what? Just because you're in a shitty situation doesn't give you a free pass to be a f**k-up and then get off scott free.

Shidoshi is right.

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Originally Posted by Dolemite

Shidoshi is right.

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He's been right throughout this entire thread.

Yoshi is right.

That's been true throughout countless threads. ;)

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Originally Posted by Nomi

My cousin has a kid at 18. She had been on birth control for two years and was careful about interaction from medication. Since she doesn't believe in abortion, yeah, she kept the child.

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My only thing to add is that abortion is not good, but pre-marital sex is okay?

Female logic, Calliander. Be careful, trying to understand it may make your head explode.

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Originally Posted by Calliander

My only thing to add is that abortion is not good, but pre-marital sex is okay?

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Most people can justify pre-marital sex a lot easier than they can terminating a pregnancy. She messed up, but it's not her belief to kill a child because she messed up. I can't take a strong stand on either side of the abortion debate, and you know what, pre-marital sex happens. I wish people were less stupid about it though.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

I'm not sure I understand the argument you're making (how am I saying birth control shouldn't have been invented?), so I'll just say this: if you aren't ready to take up the responsibility of a baby should you or your partnet get pregnant (with or without the use of birth control), then yes, of course you shouldn't be having sex. I mean, that's kind of a no brainer to me. Sex, in its primary function, is to have children, so if you're going to be doing something that is MEANT for the creation of a child, fun or not, if you aren't ready to deal with the child should it be created, then you shouldn't be doing it.

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And all we have to do is tell this to everyone under the age of 18 and all of a sudden teenage pregnancies will cease.

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Originally Posted by shidoshi

I'm not sure I understand the argument you're making (how am I saying birth control shouldn't have been invented?), so I'll just say this: if you aren't ready to take up the responsibility of a baby should you or your partnet get pregnant (with or without the use of birth control), then yes, of course you shouldn't be having sex. I mean, that's kind of a no brainer to me. Sex, in its primary function, is to have children, so if you're going to be doing something that is MEANT for the creation of a child, fun or not, if you aren't ready to deal with the child should it be created, then you shouldn't be doing it.

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You're right. But people are going to continue to do stupid shit (how many people on this board are virgins, and how many people on this board are ready to be parents?), and in the case of a fuck-up the only option should not be "well, you're screwed" because that causes more problems than it solves.