History lesson with Joe Lieberman

As most of you know, "Diamond" Joe Lieberman led the fight against violent videogames in the 1990s. One of the first games to put him on the map on this, along with Mortal Kombat, was Night Trap.

In 1993 the game was pulled from shelves in part due to Lieberman's work.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...17/ai_15052564

Quote:

---

Sega Night Trap pulled from some stores - computer game from Sega Enterprises
Newsbytes News Network, Dec 17, 1993 by John McCormick

A December 9 joint Senate Judiciary and Government Affairs Committee hearing on video game violence co-chaired by Senators Joseph Lieberman (D. Conn.) and Herbert H. Kohl (D Wisc.) has apparently spurred consumer complaints and garnered enough industry attention that two major toy stores have decided on their own to remove Sega's ultra-violent, photo-realistic Night Stalker game from their shelves... Senator Lieberman has called Night Trap's graphic depiction of violence against women "deeply offensive." Night Trap uses actual images of actors and actresses rather than cartoon-like animations used by many video games which is thought to give the game even more impact...

...During last week's hearing, Senator Lieberman, in his opening statements said that some video games contains "the most horrible depictions of violent crimes." They "teach a child to enjoy inflicting torture," said the Senator.

---

As most of you may know, the "Terror Detainee Bill" was passed by the Senate last night, with Senator Lieberman voting in favor of it. If you know anything about this bill, it is ghastly and horrible bill in every way, but the pertinent sections here relate to torture.

The President will have the power to decide which methods of interrogation are legal, and those methods need not be disclosed. Based on recent history, this will be anything that does not intentionally lead to organ failure or death (if a detainee dies by accident, though - whoops!). Sexual humiliation, feces smearing, waterboarding, dehydration and sleep deprivation, etc.

And Joe voted for it.

torture in videogames = bad
torture in real life = excellent

Not to sound like an uncaring ass. But don't terrorists do that to our soldiers, journalists, and civilians over there? I know I know ... we are a more civilized society. But still.

Oh and Lieberman is a fucking hypocrite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Advocate

Not to sound like an uncaring ass. But don't terrorists do that to our soldiers, journalists, and civilians over there? I know I know ... we are a more civilized society. But still.

Oh and Lieberman is a fucking hypocrite.

---

1. A person isn't a terrorist just because the President says they are. There have been lots of examples of innocent people getting abducted and imprisoned and worse while the President goes on TV and says they are bad people and the worst of the worst. Look up Jose Padilla (an American citizen!) for one. The whole point of due process and habeas corpus is so that the government cannot imprison someone without a reason.

2. A jihadist would, in my estimation, be more likely to torture a captured American now that they know we would definitely do the same to them. Now, that didn't stop them from brutally murdering Daniel Pearl, and others. But we had the moral high ground, and was able to fight a war of hearts and minds effectively. How can we say that now? Even Bush seemed to know, albeit a long time ago, that the war of hearts and minds was essential to win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diff-chan

1. A person isn't a terrorist just because the President says they are. There have been lots of examples of innocent people getting abducted and imprisoned and worse while the President goes on TV and says they are bad people and the worst of the worst. Look up Jose Padilla (an American citizen!) for one. The whole point of due process and habeas corpus is so that the government cannot imprison someone without a reason.

---

Not talking here. I'm referring to the two ment hat were captured and beheaded on the Net. I was also referring to the lady soldier captured beaten, starved, then released and is now back in America. Oh yeah lets not forget the Isreali cature back in 1976 at the Olympics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diff-chan

2. Good treatment of POWs has undoubtedly saved many American lives over the years. A jihadist would, in my estimation, be more likely to torture a captured American now that they know we would definitely do the same to them. Now, that didn't stop them from brutally murdering Daniel Pearl, and others. But we had the moral high ground, and was able to fight a war of hearts and minds effectively. How can we say we do now?

---

Oh and what happened to that whole fueling regime in Iraq? Where they were starved and mistreated?

Look I am not in support of this law, but I am again playsing Devil's Advocate here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diff-chan

1. A person isn't a terrorist just because the President says they are. There have been lots of examples of innocent people getting abducted and imprisoned and worse while the President goes on TV and says they are bad people and the worst of the worst. Look up Jose Padilla (an American citizen!) for one. The whole point of due process and habeas corpus is so that the government cannot imprison someone without a reason.

---

See Maher Arar.

Keep in mind that under the detainee bill, people like Maher Arar would have no opportunity to challenge their detention in U.S. courts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Advocate

Not talking here. I'm referring to the two ment hat were captured and beheaded on the Net. I was also referring to the lady soldier captured beaten, starved, then released and is now back in America. Oh yeah lets not forget the Isreali cature back in 1976 at the Olympics.

---

Okay! So we'll do the same things they do to us! Great! Except... this really cuts to the heart of the matter. Bush frames the debate in terms of good vs. evil. If we're the good guys, why are we using the evil guy's tactics? Aren't we supposed to be better than them? How are we gonna convince people over there that democracy is the way to go when our democracy has us doing the same stuff their non-democracy is doing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sleeveboy

Keep in mind that under the detainee bill, people like Maher Arar would have no opportunity to challenge their detention in U.S. courts.

---

Exactly, my friend. Arar's story is exactly like the final chapters of 1984, except he gets released by the end. It's quite frightening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diff-chan

The whole point of due process and habeas corpus is so that the government cannot imprison someone without a reason.

---

Abe Lincoln says fuck you.

I thought that this was to be contained solely in the context of bashing Lieberman. Once again TNL, you disapoint me. :cry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

Abe Lincoln says fuck you.

---

So do thousands of enslaved blacks.

Diff should move to Iraq since they are so much more civilized than we are.

Also Lieberman is a douche, a prime example of what's wrong with American politics. He wants to sit in your living room and tell you what is okay for you to watch. Hmmmm, Communistic ain't it?