here, let me draw you a pictureQuote:
Originally Posted by Tenchimo Dos
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here, let me draw you a pictureQuote:
Originally Posted by Tenchimo Dos
^Wow that was dumb.
BTW, "spiel"
Right, so that would be just as bad and would probably get that comedian banned just as much as Richards was. What's your point IronPlant? Do you have one?
You really don't get it; g0zen explained it only a couple of posts back.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
A black person calling a white person a hick is just applying a racial stereotype to one person; it's the equivalent of saying black people eat watermelon. Racial Stereotypes suck yes, but they're only as bad as any other insult you could ever say about someone.
Read Richard's quotes again that Brisco posted:
If you don't understand the huge difference between what Richard's said there and stereotype joke (which is what Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy go by) you really are more retarded than I thought. I'll give you a hint: old wounds and rubbing salt in them.Quote:
"Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a fucking fork up your ass … You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherfucker. Throw his ass out. He's a nigger! He's a nigger! He's a nigger! A nigger, look, there's a nigger!"
"That's what you get for talking back to the white man."
No way, Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, etc. have probably all said something to that effect; nobody gives a shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
I think the rule is that the shit you say has to be funny, especially if it's going to be that offensive, and this wasn't.
That's what bothers me about it.
The difference is that Those guys make fun of everyone vs a lame comedian trying to tell a racist joke. And in this case he clearly wasn't joking. I'm tired of this lame argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
And there are white comedians that tell race jokes as well, but once again they are GOOD comedians. I'm not gonna say the dude is racist, he probably wanted to offend those people that were pissing him off, and choose that route.
Yeah, I mean...
Dave Chappelle, as Chip: "That was good, wasn't it? Because I did know I couldn't do that!"
Eddie Murphy, Italian guy impression: "Hey, paisan, d'you see Rocky? Good fuckin' movie!"
Funny.
Kramer: "He's a nigger!"
Not funny.
Agreed. It was obviously a stupid and embarassing thing for him to do, but it seems pretty clear that he was just pissed off and trying to be offensive. The route he took to do that just happened to be a particularly loaded one that a lot of people probably won't be able to get over.Quote:
Originally Posted by shidoshi
The guy in the audience calls Richards a cracker and I don't believe anyone's calling him a racist (I do realize the difference, but fundamentally it's the same deal).
He called him that after he said "we had you hung up 50 years ago". So I wouldn't even hold that guy on the same level as Kramer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salsashark
So just because it was in retaliation it's ok?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
I'm saying I'm not gonna put that guy on the same level. He was insulted, and became angry so he insulted him back the same way he was insulted. If Kramer had never said anything the guy would have never said anything. Kinda like if a guy punches you, and you punch the guy back. I'm not gonna put YOU on the same level as the guy that decided to punch you for no reason other than being mad.
Racism is racism. your analogy doesn't work for this reason, if someone punches me and I hit them back, I am hitting them in defense. Richards only used words, which need no rebuttal and could have been ignored. Retaliating using racial slurs is not defending oneself, it's just doing the same thing that Richards was doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
Richards was being a moron, and the man he was calling these epithetes [sp?] didn't need to defend himself, anyone who was there already knew who the idiot was, by speaking up he has only brought himself on the same level, no more and no less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
are you fucking brain damaged? There isn't a huge difference between those two things. Both stand on generalizing a person based on the actions of the many. There isn't some magical "one" hick or "one" n#%@#r. When you use those slurs you insult a large group and you are referencing a group of people and a history of actions.
If you call a black man by that word and he is insulted, do you honestly think him getting upset is NOT because the history attached to it? I have never met a black person who didn’t attach every bit of that horrible history to that word. Not one.
You reference history and "old wounds and rubbing salt in them" by just using the N word or Hick, or honkey or any other racial slur.
Oh, and wow at saying that using racial slurs are just as bad as any other insult. Just wow.
Both are wrong, and the fact that you rank this crap as if one is some how morally better, doesn't put you too far from Richards in my mind.
NO ONE IS SAYING EITHER OF THEM ARE RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111Quote:
Originally Posted by Spent
The problem with Kramer is he got mad, and handled the situation UN PROFESSIONALY.
I know it is just as bad. But I don't believe the public would care as much as they care about kramer doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
Yes, including myself. Racism and being a racist are different. Racism is the issue here, and that's what we were discussing, so where are you pulling this I called them both racists out of? I can say sexist things and not be a chauvinist.
People just dont get it. If people were booing Chris Rock, and he got mad one day and said fuck all you CRACKERS. Yes people would make a big deal about it. What he was saying was NOT in context with ANY joke. Thats why people are making a big deal about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
I've said like 4 or 5 times now in this thread I dont believe he is racist. Or at least it can't be proven by the video. What I am saying is reguardless of what any of the fans were doing he should have handled the situation better other than resorting to racial slurs. There is no excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spent
From the video , and actual acounts from the people that were there, there was a black guy or someone making fun of him. Nothing racial was said UNTIL Kramer got pissed, and said we had you strung up 50 years ago. Thats why I said I dont fault the idiot in the audience as much as Kramer. He only called him a Cracker out of retaliation. I mean if you called someone a nigger for no reason other than your mad ( makes you wonder why that was the first thing to come to your mind), and they call you a cracker, he's doing nothing but returning the gesture. Nothing racial would have been said if you wouldn't have said anything, there for I'm sure the majority of people would put you at more fault than the other guy. I'm not saying racial slurs are acceptable, but if that case ever happened, the person who instigated it would be held at greater fault IMO.
I do not believe this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
I don't think you are going to get people to agree about this. Many people think that racism, be it a joke, is just as bad as the stupid hate speech Richard's used. (but for what it is worth, I wasn’t talking about a joke. I was talking about if they did the exact same thing)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
But whatever, my only point was that in MY OPINION, I do not think anyone would give much a shit if someone nonwhite did the exact same thing.
Not in the context of a joke, not to be funny or anything like that. I don't think people would care if someone replaced the n word with hick and instead of referencing slavery, referenced some horrible thing white people do/did like sister fucking or the crusades or some shit like that.
No offence, but thats a pretty bigot thing to say in my opinion. But its your opinion so to each his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
Its all about context. If Kramer had said someone along the lines of a joke it might have shocked people, but no one would be calling him racist etc. Kinda like when Jackie Chan said "whats up my nigga". Everyone understood it was a joke in a movie.
Also , if your known to make fun of every race including yours , people will be more understanding of your jokes. For example dave chappelle. The white family with the last name nigger. He's a black milk man, and makes comments such as " you know you niggers dont pay your bill on time.... NIGGAZ"," See you nigga's later". Stuff like that is funny, and if he were to turn it around it would still be funny. In Kramers case, he blatently says "We had you strung uup 50 years ago" as a derogatory comment at someone/people to piss them off weither it be racism or just anger. You put Chris Rock in the same situation, and have him say "Fuck all you crackers , etc etc" It would be on the news, and everyone would be pissed just the same.
I don't see how me saying that I think most people don't care if someone of a minority says something racis, makes me a bigot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
It isn't like I said that I don't care.
Maybe I just have a low opinion of most people?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
Why are you pointing that out? I just said, the first time you pointed that out, that you aren't going to get everyone to agree on if those two things are as bad as the other. And it doesn't even factor into what I'm saying. I'm not talking about jokes.
nah, I doubte that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
You should read a book called "The Redneck Manifesto" by Jim Gould, Buttplant.
I also doubt that because when it comes down to it cracker is not as offensive as nigger (an example of this being that most of the posts here use the "n-word" instead of the real thing and no one says cracker as the "c-word"). Now if Chris Rock was in the same situation and said "Fuck you white baby killing, sister fucking, nazis" then he'd probably in a similar situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
If Micheal Jordan said " fuck all you crackers" it would be a big deal. So I still say the same thing would happen to anyone regaurdless of race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
Cunt?
Seriously, cracker doesn't mean shit to me.
Everyone is a little bit racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
"Cracker" does not carry the same weight as "Nigger."Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
biased maybe, but not racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by K3V
I was orginally going to say something smarmy becuase I'm not a redneck or white trash. But I decided to instead give you a fair shake and see what amazon says that book is about.Quote:
Originally Posted by icarusfall
It might be an interesting book. On one hand it kind of sounds like some middle class worker whining and on the other hand it kind of sounds like it might point out something that needs to be pointed out; "the race struggle in our country is a smokescreen for what should really be a class struggle."
I don't know about other states, but the poorer people in my state do have a habit of scape gaoting each other when they should be united to make things better for themselves and their children. If the book is about that, I wouldn't mind reading it.
Semantics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
I think maru and gozen have read up on this, but racism is only as old as the theory of evolution.
It was bolstered up by the rich to give them a excuse to justify the power they had in a time when people were no longer buying into the old excuses. It was shit like "well I have a right to be rich because my genetics put me in a position to be rich. And I have a right to lead because my genetics put me in a position of power."
The book is really about how middle to lower class blacks and whites need to stop fighting each other and get on with the REAL inequality of classism. Sometimes it does come off as a blue collar dude whining, but if you read past those parts it's a very good book. I guarantee it'll tell you a few things about both sides you'd probably have been better off not knowing.
Jim Gould was the editor of a VERY controversial zine in the 90's called "Answer Me!" if you're interested in finding out more about him.
Kind of like how Chappelle said to spin he was stopping his show because white people ruined it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
I'm pretty sure he said he stopped the show because of the preasure. At least thats what he said on Oprah.
I thought he said he hated the people that he worked with. They would want him to do certain things that he felt discrimitory being black. And still, he never said I stopped the show cause of dem there Crackers. So that statement doesn't fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spent
have you read the letter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
it pretty much accused everyone white of being like stupid college mildly racist frat boys.
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/s...appelle+show+l
I remember hearing that he didn't write that letter.
I've yet to meet a white guy who gets mad at being called a cracker. The word just has no meaning or power behind it. Probably because in the last (at least) five hundred years the black people have had no power over the white. I think that's one of the reasons nigger is such a inflammatory word, there is a power behind it. It means more than just ignorant or whatever the textbook definition is. It means that for a couple hundred of years I was able to treat you as less than an animal. That you couldn't do anything unless I said you could. It meant that I could take your wife or daughter and have my way with them any time I wanted, and there was nothing you could do because frankly you just don't matter.
It means more when someone socially above you disparages you. If someone below you calls you something, who cares? Call me what you want, I still own your ass and can whip the shit out of you. That attitude still carries on to this day.
So I'm in the camp that says Chris Rock could say anything he wanted to in a non joke way and very little would come of it. It'd just be "there goes another crazy black dude." There would be no public outcry and the story would be buried the next day.
I heard the same thing. Kramer loses because that shit just plain wasn't funny. Plus, if you can't handle hecklers then you shouldn't be a comedian. I have seen both Dave Chapelle and Carlos Mencia live and they both handled hecklers by owning the shit out of them. They didn't resort to playground racial slurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
Edit: Letter was written by a columnist.
http://www.popmatters.com/columns/harris/060411.shtml
this reminds of the episode where Jerry was doing a set and this chick Kramer was kinda seeing heckled him. she booed, hissed, it was horrible. even though Jerry bomb, he did what nobody else thought to do... he went to where she worked and heckled her back. then she lost a toe.Quote:
Originally Posted by animegirl
let's not forget that Kramer isn't that bad a guy, though. afterall, he did find her pinky toe and jumped on a bus to take it to the hospital to get it reattached. sure, he called some people niggers, but let's also not forget that on that very bus ride, he had to fight off a gun-wielding mugger who not only threatened his life, but also the lives of those on the bus. he violently struggled with the man, swirving through the horrid NYC traffic, and, in a moment of quick thinking, opened up the door to the bus and kicked him straight out! he's a hero, a crime fighter. you, just like George, might even liken him to being Batman. he had a lapse in judgement by doing what he did that unfortunate night, but even heroes have their off days.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Punky Skunk
Dont forget he made all of the regular stops on that bus route after that. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashen Victor
another Heckler gets fucking owned
Bill Hicks:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yZ1fXTx0-...elated&search=
that's how you fucking lose it & still come out on top.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashen Victor
hahaha end of discussion
(he also donated blood so Jerry wouldn't die.)
Hahaha, wow. You're more socially retarded than I thought. I never condoned the use of racial slurs. What I was saying and what you did not fully comprehend is that is a huge divide between a stereotype, which is what most Eddie Murphy type comedy is and what richards said. I mean if someone gets truely and utterly offended to their core by shit that those guys (like Eddie) say, you need to get a thicker skin. Shit like that IS the equivalent of calling someone a retard, or a fag, or a motherfucker.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
Think about the content of what Richard's said:
"Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a fucking fork up your ass … You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherfucker. Throw his ass out. He's a nigger! He's a nigger! He's a nigger! A nigger, look, there's a nigger! That's what you get for talking back to the white man."
He's seems almost upset at the fact that it was not 50 years ago when if a black person was heckling him, he could send them out by yelling nigger so they could be lynched. That is seriously, rubbing salt into old wounds.
And you're saying that's on the same level as saying "black people like watermelon" or "white people fuck their sisters"? Those are bad and demeaning. But on the same level as the equivalent of "I wish my race could still fuck over your race so you couldn't heckle me"?
But as Mzo and others said, the biggest difference is that Richards outburst was not funny.
Ashen Victor stock is at an all time high in this thread.
I say racist things about eskimo's a lot. I'm never hatefully serious but I do it.
An interview with one of his writers stated that Chapelle finally stopped because of the laugh of one of the guys there. He was doing a skit - one of the many racist-tinged ones - and this guy that worked with them laughed incredibly hard at one of the race jokes. The thing is, this guy's laugh had a tendancy to sound really... condesending (something like that) and it just struck Dave as too much and that's when he thought things had gotten too far and disappeared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerohero
I'll try to look that back up, I don't remember what magazine it was in. It's somewhere in my bathroom, I know that much.
I guess ancient civilizations that had racial slaves got an early draft of The Origin of the Species? Like 5000+ years in advance?Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
I'm just trying to understand how some people actually think saying that would not piss off a black person. It even sounds offensive to none black people.Quote:
"Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a fucking fork up your ass … You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherfucker. Throw his ass out. He's a nigger! He's a nigger! He's a nigger! A nigger, look, there's a nigger! That's what you get for talking back to the white man."
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TNmQq9v-4...elated&search=
Do any of you remember the Detriot basketball game brawl that happened a while back? It concerned alot of Black people, or mostly all from what I saw, and a few racial things were said by some black basketball players, and that thing was all over the news. So in conclusion, it mostly has to dow it the fact that he's supposed to be a profesional, and he's famous. THATS why this was on CNN.
Probably more to do with punching spectators.Quote:
Originally Posted by DistantRelative
I'm not going to discuss this with you past this post. You can't even make up your mind on what stance you want to take. You can't say you don't condone it, then turn around and say that using the n word or hick is the same as calling someone a retard. And no, funny doesn’t change that. It might make it more acceptable, but it sure as fuck does not magically equate the two kinds of insults.Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
I may very well be socially retarded, but you probably could give me a run for my money if I am. I think I've said, what?, three times that I'm not comparing what Richard's said to Eddy Murphy or Chris Rock jokes, but to a hypothetical situation were they did the exact same thing.
So then you don't really have a point other than to say; "Dur, if blackie did it it'd be okay..What's with all the hate for da white man?" Okay, fine IronPlant, you can hold that opinion if you want, but it's patently wrong. No half-baked slur toward Caucasians that a black comedian could come up with would compare to Richards invoking the murder of African-Americans through the lynchings. So, you really can't make your comparison. Richards was being a bigot and an asshole and he deserves every bit of negative press he's got.
Wait, a lot of the time, g0zen and Buttcheeks are arguing about something I know nothing about so I stay out, but is Buttcheeks always completely wrong like this when he walks into an arguement 5 days late?
Yes, every time he jumps headfirst into an argument with whatever bullshit comes into his head and makes an ass of himself. It's like clockwork.
No. Since some of you lack the ability to read and comprehend I'll just make a list of what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
1) I do not think what he said was ok. In fact I find it appalling.
2) I do understand why people are upset over this. I am not defending him.
3) However, I do think that if someone not white was to do the same thing, people wouldn't care as much.
I'm sorry that me thinking #3 bothers you. But at least I admit this country has real social problems and don't try to sweep them under the white trash mat.
Uh, I wouldn't be too sure about that. I realize you are a lefty and think you are ultimately better than most the people around you in Tennessee, so you might not understand this, but words like racist and hick or white trash have just as much weight with many southern white people as the N word has with black people.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
When a person uses those words against a lower middle class person, it does have weight. It rips away everything they have strived for. It says, "you are worthless, you are crap, and you are a monster. All of these horrible things, you are a part of them. Plantation owners, Nazi's you are just like them. You are less than human."
No, the history of the two kinds of insults are not the same. It is the difference between one being the people being hurt and the people doing the hurting. But the insults are essentially the same in their effort to strip away a person's humanity.
I'd buy that.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
Since your entire arguement is hypothetical I don't think it's really relevent. Michael Richards did say it on stage, Chris Rock and whoever else you mentioned "might have" or "if they". That's not enough to base an arguement on. Also I don't think the insult of blacks to whites are as potent -- seeing as they didn't enslave us for hundreds if not thousands of years prior and all. Did you forget that fact?
Add to that little morsal of history the fact that cracka', honky and whitey don't really hold a lot of merit in the eyes of white people while nigger (for the history mentioned above) has a really grass roots connotation associated with it.
Does America have eskimo's? I'm not trying to be racist here but I hate them all.
I hear that argument more from white people than black people. I would be interested in knowing what the black members of TNL think about that word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
The people I've talked to about it tended to hate it because of how it insulted every part of them, how it demoted every part of their being from that of a human to that of an object or tool. It was never "ohnoses, you're talking crap about my ancestors" and more "fuck you, you fucking asshole, I'm not some god damn animal, I'm a MAN."
I don't think I was making an argument. I clearly said it was just an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
So? Nobody is saying that serious, hateful racist remarks are acceptable. They're not, and retardedly stupid, which is why I find so much humour in them. All I said was that there's a reason why it's more socially acceptable for a black guy to call a white guy a cracka over a white guy calling a black guy a nigger. But they're both wrong to say, so it doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
Chris Rock is funny for the most part (though some of his movies, wtf?) and whenever he calls a white guy a cracka or whatever it's always tongue in cheek. Michael Richards lost it, and even if he was trying to be hip and cool by using this kind of shock humour he wasn't funny and cut way too close to the root of the matter. Because they actually used to strip black guys and hang them upside down to humiliate them simply because they were black. I'm not sure about the fork thing, that was out of left feild. What can Chris Rock say about white people that would cut close to a hard truth like that?
That's kind of a weak foundation to formulate an opinion on too, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
Cracker, Honkey, Hick, White Trash... whatever. None of that means shit to me, or most white people. The difference is that we never had to "take it back" and make it acceptable. That's the only reason some blacks aren't offended by nigger, because of the idea that they have taken it back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
Racist, Nazi, sister pumping hick, redneck, crusader, white trash, joe dirt, relgious zelot, etc, etc.
Stereotype =/= racial slur.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
And you're saying calling someone a hick, which is the equivalent of "you are from the south and white, and therefore backward" is not the same as; retard "you're intellectually moderate and it's an insult to be such", or you're gay "you're homosexual and it's an insult to be such". All are forms of bigotry.
You seriously are a retarded hick faggot.
All of that is namecalling. None of it is about an event that took place in an era of time towards my group of people. The sister fucking came about because of imbreeding, something you white trashers did to yourselves. I'm Irish. When people call Irish people useless drunks I usually just flash a thumbs up and chug the rest of my Guinness. If this were the 1800's and a Viking was doing Viking standup and was talking about pillaging my towns I'd probably be mad. But at that point in history we weren't this progressively thinking so things probably would have ended in a large sword duel. And since he's a motherfucking Viking I would die.
Long story short: Racism today isn't as accepted as you say it is Ironplant. Not even against whites from sinister black folk.
As an aside: Black, Chinese, Mongolian, Moroccan, English, and Mexican people can all be religious zealots. It's not a whites only club.
NIGGERS EAT COTC I READ IT ON OPRAH
And in keeping with the viking theme of my last post:
http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/a...1&d=1164312515
buttcheeks, your right on the base thinking that all raqist comments are wrong, but in this generation where minorities have a lot more power and influence than before being "racist" against a white guy isn't that bad. It should be, but it isn't.
this is reality, an unfair world for people of all colors.
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[Will.i.am]
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[Thanks to Kelso1038@aol.com, firedreams4@aim.com, p1nk_r0cks_my_s0cks@hotmail.com, eardellw@aol.com for correcting these lyrics]
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I know. The orginal comment was said in passing. I don't care for the situtation, but it isn't something I cry myself to sleep every night over. I don't know why everyone cares so much about me thinking the public is a little crappy.Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar
Fergie is terrible for that song. She has no "humps."
IAWTMFP BHNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Compass
(edit: 4 pages too late)
her nose, duh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor Ramon
Wow, you call me a lefty and then pump out this sentimentalist garbage. Sorry, pal, but there is no historical contextual comparison to invoking the lynchings to invoking the lynchers. One is saying "you are a victim, and you should be again" and "you are an aggressor and you still are", one is an accusation and the other is a THREAT. Calling someone a cracker is not the same as saying they should be HUNG UPSIDE DOWN AND STABBED because they're black and that's what OUGHT to happen to blacks. Trying to compare the two is really starting to make you sound like a rank apologist.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
Are they the same or aren't they IronPlant? You're bouncing back and forth, but I know why. It's because you understand the ridiculousness of your comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
Find me reference in the historical record of one civilization enslaving another because they were perceived as a different 'race' rather than just a different nation, tribe, culture, etc. Certainly, empires had slaves of different races, but they had more than enough of the same race. There was no predication of slavery along racial lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroBlue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
You know, I'm getting tired of people using the excuse that apparently every white persons grandpa owned a cotton plant and 50 slaves. When slavery was at its peak my family was still in Ireland suffering famine, too poor to even have food let alone slaves. The whole argument is bullshit and even if it was the case that everyone had slaves, that wasn't ME, so fuck it.
The race card is such a bullshit thing to pull, in any circumstance, natives, blacks, whites, whatever. I'm sorry shitty things happened in the past, but it happened to neither them personally nor myself, so get up and move your people forward instead of thinking you're owed something. [I say this to you in particular as you have native in you :bang: ]
If we want to end racism we need to move forward and ignore fools such as Richards. Getting upset about this shit only feeds the fire.
Correct me if I'm mistaken [which I could well be], but weren't the Jews enslaved in Egypt WAY back in the day?Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
More like Canadian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
Jews aren't a race, they're a tribe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spent
I WILL SCALP YOU YOU SON OF A BITCH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spent
Well I don't personally give a shit about slavery and all that jazz, but in the case of America I think that's the deepseeded reason why it seems like white racism is a little bit more acceptable. "Acceptable being relatively less unacceptable.
Let my people go.Quote:
Correct me if I'm mistaken [which I could well be], but weren't the Jews enslaved in Egypt WAY back in the day?
did you really hear threats when you watched that video? Do you really fear stupid racist people? Do you honestly believe that the good people of this nation will let that crap happen again?Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
I heard a sad frustrated old man that couldn't deal with reality. I didn't believe for a second that the black people in the audience would be put back into slavery. All I saw was a sad crappy person lashing out to hurt someone else in a very horrendous way.
But I expect you to feel this way. You aren't going to admit that the way you look down your nose at poor white people is wrong.
lol, what kind of question is that? Things can be different but be used in the same way. If I treat two men like objects, and strip away their humanity, BUT use different historical context to do so, I'm still doing the same thing to both.Quote:
Originally Posted by g0zen
If I tell one man that he is a pile of shit for being an ancestor of a slave and tell another man he is a pile of shit for being the ancestor of a slave owner, at the end of the day I'm still telling two people they are piles of shit.
both are wrong. And that is part of what is wrong with the whole racism issue in the US. People don't believe it is wrong anymore because of concept of it anymore. It is all about who is the biggest victim or who is going to get revenge.
Who is going to get revenge? What?
These posts all make sense to buttcheeks as he's typing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
A nazi doesnt see being a nazi as a bad thing, a religious zealot doesnt see him/herself as being a zealot and people who are not religious zealots or nazi´s thus will take it as a joke because they know they are not such a person.
Its fucking easy to shrug it off and see it for a joke.
A person of colour however lives with that history of slavery and knows that they got lynched for nothing more then being black so it hits far closer home ALL THE FUCKING TIME, EVERY FUCKING SECOND FOR AS LONG AS THEY LIVE.
If YOU are too stupid to see a difference there I feel pity for you.
any minority member could feel the same way. A black person knows they are not a N&)#r and they know they will never be a slave again. They could just as easily shrug it off as a joke. The concept of slavery is just as real to them as being a racist slave owner would be to a southern white person. Neither of them have actually experienced either, but it is part of their cultural past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almaci
As for how real nazi's or religious zealots feel, that doesn't really matter. People rarely call real Nazis, Nazis. When it is used as an insult, it is used against someone that isn't really a nazi to demonize and belittle them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punky Skunk
yes, and I'm sure whatever garbage you have on your stero right now sounds good as you listen to it.
I'm Jewish. My people went through some rough shit last century as you might recall. I don't get bent out of shape about Jew jokes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Almaci
No one in that club knew any slaves, and no one in their family got lynched. This is a silly rationale. It has nothing to do with that.
I think AstroBlue was more on the mark in pointing out that it's the lack of meaning and connotation that make the word hurtful. It's the fact that it is such and insult, yet all it means is black, therefore making blackness an insult that gives it its sting.
But I think making a racist joke on stage in a comedy club is no worse than Borat talking about Jews in a movie.
I heard slavery is coming back... in pogform
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/6...clemaleje2.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
So if he'd gone up there and done a routine where he denied the Holocaust in no uncertain terms and nothing remotely comedic, that wouldn't offend you either? Even then, if you wouldn't, could you atleast understand others being offended and outraged?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Firstly, you don't know if anyone in their families was lynched or not. Secondly, it doesn't matter. Richards was identifying them as a people who not only were lynched, but should be again. There's nothing silly about it, only hurtful and racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
This shows a definite lack of understanding on your part. That word has a lot deeper meaning behind it than just black, even if some in the black community act like it doesn't. It harkens back to a time when black people were less than human to the dominate culture in the United States, and every time it's used, especially when used to intentionally demean someone of color it is an insult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Except one is clearly a joke, and the other is not a joke at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
Richards should have just claimed he was being cutting edge and that in a few years everyone would be doing racist routines like that.
My dearest IronPlant,
It wouldn't be the same. It's not like he said "Well, sir, I am quite sorry that I am unable to hold your attention as would a bucket of chicken," he made reference to lynching and he said "nigger." White people can't dance and black people love chicken are pretty, unless done in a clever way, unfunny stereotypes but reference paid to the enslavement and murder of a people is clearly crossing a line.
It is unadvisable for a white American to stop into a reservation and shout about killing ancestors and stealing land.
Likewise, a German approaching a Jew and saying that he should be gassed is clearly a no go.
Even though the people saying these things would have had nothing to do with the acts committed by those who came before and the argument could be made that they didn't really MEAN those things, it's still the ultimate sign of disrespect and callousness that a person of the offending race could show. Do you have to ba an apologist for sins of the past that had nothing to do with you the person? I say no. But rubbing someone's face in their heritage when it involves so much suffering is a far cry away from "lolz your people and my people do certain things differently."
In my personal relationships, I'm pretty un-pc. My friend Travis and I would sometimes mock each other racially. We were comfortable with each other and really just tried to one up the other to get a laugh. Even then, that was a clear line that I had the sense not to cross and didn't need discussion on the matter to understand that some wounds are too deep to heal and that that needs to be, if nothing else, respected.
Borat is a Jew so its no different then blacks making nigger jokes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogacuda
*sigh*
I don't think you people read anything I say anymore.
I think we all agreed that calling someone the N word is not the same as cracker. I think I also pointed out, maybe this is the fifth time now, that I wasn't talking about jokes.
I don't know why everyone keeps thinking I'm making that argument. I'm not. I'm guessing maybe one of your stupid co-workers or something said it and you are assuming I feel the same way. I don't. I have never said, nor will I ever say that making silly jokes about how white people walk like this and how black people walk like that, is the same as flat out hate speech.
What I've said is that if a minority member did say something like what Richards said, to a white person, I don't think the public would react as harshly.
Like if someone made fun of a white guy for being a share cropper, and told him to go back to Ireland to starve to death, I don't think the reaction would be as bad. Or if someone picked out some random German and told him he was a murderer and that he should be beat to death for the holocaust.
I think the point some of us are trying to make to you is that there is nothing that a black comedian could throw out that could be likened to this, be this severe. Except for in bizarro America where blacks owned and lynched whites. There it happens. In fact it just did since everything there is a distorted mirror image of things over here. And people have angular faces.
I should sleep more.
But the point is, the outcry wouldn't be there, to this degree anyway, because whatever words used would not carry the same weight. So your point is kinda null. People flipped out about... the newest black guy on MadTV (name escapes me) when he "showed his true colors" not too long ago but to a far lesser degree and that's really because the words he used are less severe by default.
To look at it objectively, perhaps you're right in a way. Maybe that is slanted. The hate behind each should be looked down upon equally but the word used and reference made carry so much more weight thanks to the history. I guess if you want a white racist's comments to not be viewed as no more severe than a black racist's comments, then you have to explain to the white racist that "nigger" is out of bounds. And that won't happen since they're, you know, racist. The playing field isn't equal when you rub into someone's face that, up until recently, the playing field was so far from equal that he could have been hung for saying the wrong thing.
I makes little to no sense and all the sense in the world at the same time. Just let it go and keep in mind that, because of the history behind the things he said, the words themselves carried more weight than anything that could be said by the opposing racist.
... but it doesn't matter since it's racism and fucking stupid to begin with. I do need more sleep. I somehow typed all this out only just now realizing that I was participating in a debate about who should get shit on more for being RACIST. Jesus.
You people? You racist bastard.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
tnl isn't a race
it's a nation
retart
I think that is ultimately what I don't get about the other side's opinion. More than a few people have made the argument that it is ok for one side to be racist because of the weight of the bad things that happened in the past. It may make me stupid, but I can't grasp the concept of quantifity hate and racism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis
I do not believe that wrong things suddenly become right because of numbers.
Besides, aren't you ultimately agreeing with me? i said that people wouldn't care as much if a minority member said the same thing. You pretty much said that was true because the racist words of a those groups would lack the weight of those of Richards.
Do you really not like the fact I don't like that? Are people really going to continue to argue that such a situation is ok? That one group should get a free pass on spreading feelings of separation and hate? That being hurt in the past some how makes it ok to continue spreading hate, even if it is to a lesser degree? Do you people even think about the moral implications of your counter arguments?
Are you insane? Seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by buttcheeks
I think you're confusing racism with eugenics.
Ok, if that is true than I have no respect for Chapelle. He's getting paid millions of dollars, but he couldn't hack it because of some guy's condescending laugh? Weak. Personally, I think the show was cutting into his WoW time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MechDeus
take it up with gozenQuote:
Originally Posted by YellerDog