Michael Richards (Kramer) loses it on stage

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Originally Posted by g0zen

So if he'd gone up there and done a routine where he denied the Holocaust in no uncertain terms and nothing remotely comedic, that wouldn't offend you either?
Even then, if you wouldn't, could you atleast understand others being offended and outraged?

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That doesn't offend me, as much as it makes me think they're retarded. Richards didn't say anything blatantly untrue, he was just being a confrontational ass and using pejorative slurs (toward someone else who was already being a confrontational ass and using pejorative slurs before Richards ever started, btw). And again, I think Richards was attempting to be funny, he just sucks.

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Firstly, you don't know if anyone in their families was lynched or not. Secondly, it doesn't matter. Richards was identifying them as a people who not only were lynched, but should be again. There's nothing silly about it, only hurtful and racist.

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Honestly, the lynching line got a laugh from most of the audience. It was clearly a joke. He lost the audience when he started screaming nigger, for some reason.

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This shows a definite lack of understanding on your part. That word has a lot deeper meaning behind it than just black, even if some in the black community act like it doesn't. It harkens back to a time when black people were less than human to the dominate culture in the United States, and every time it's used, especially when used to intentionally demean someone of color it is an insult.

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Oh my god, shut the fuck up. I said the literal meaning is simply "black person". Its old redneck slang for negro. I understand it means more to people than that. That's exactly what I was saying.

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Except one is clearly a joke, and the other is not a joke at all.

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Again, I think Richards was clearly attempting humor, wether he was succeeding or not.

kramer is truly an Adonis of comedy

edit: http://captainoftheussinevitable.ytmnsfw.com

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

tnl isn't a race

it's a nation

retart

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You say that as if you weren't talking cryptically about black people and mexicans. We know otherwise.

http://www.dealbreaker.com/images/en...k-white-lg.gif

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[...] the black and white cookie. I love the black and white. Two races of flavor living side by side. It's a wonderful thing isn't it?

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The thing about eating the Black and White cookie, Elaine, is you want to get some black and some white in each bite. Nothing mixes better than vanilla and chocolate And yet somehow racial harmony eludes us. If people would only look to the cookie all our problems would be solved.

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The only thing worse in any discussion on this board than buttcheeks is anyone who actually tries to argue with him. For anyone that hasn't figured it out yet, here is every "discussion" he is a part of:

Poster 1: "The sun is yellow."

buttcheeks: "Well the sun definitely has a blue tint to it."

Poster 1: "No, it doesn't. Go outside and look at it. There's absolutely no blue whatsoever in the sun."

buttcheeks: "I'm not trying to say that there's blue in the sun, only that it looks blue sometimes."

Poster 1: "No, it never looks blue ever."

buttcheeks: "Do you people even read anything I say anymore? I never even said it looks blue. I said that it might look blue if you looked at it with blue tinted glasses"

So please, for all of our sakes, stop it.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

That doesn't offend me, as much as it makes me think they're retarded. Richards didn't say anything blatantly untrue, he was just being a confrontational ass and using pejorative slurs (toward someone else who was already being a confrontational ass and using pejorative slurs before Richards ever started, btw). And again, I think Richards was attempting to be funny, he just sucks.

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He himself even said he wasn't joking, that he flew off the handle and lost control of himself, a la Mel Gibson on the sauce. I know none of us here are scholars of comedy like yourself, but I for one couldn't find any attempted humor in what he said, failed or not.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Honestly, the lynching line got a laugh from most of the audience. It was clearly a joke. He lost the audience when he started screaming nigger, for some reason.

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I still say it wasn't a joke, and the audience's reaction was more due to the unexpectedness of a comic being so blatantly racist. And come on, you of all people should know that some people will laugh at anything a comic says with little to know comprehension of what was said because they have it in their heads that it's 'supposed' to be funny and they came there to laugh.

The same sort of situation occured when Richards tried to make his apology on Letterman. The audience laughed, why? He wasn't telling any jokes, but people go on Letterman to have a good time and they had to suffer through that Oprah confessional bullshit so they laughed inappropriately. At the club though you could tell that after it sunk in that he wasn't doing a bit that the mood of the room changed. The tipping point came when he started his pointing and screaming of "He's a nigger" and that's when people began filing out.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Oh my god, shut the fuck up. I said the literal meaning is simply "black person". Its old redneck slang for negro. I understand it means more to people than that. That's exactly what I was saying.

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Fuck you, shithead. You were being deliberately obtuse about it with an IronPlant-esque "What's the big deal, he was just saying they were black, and they are right?" statement and you got called out for it.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Again, I think Richards was clearly attempting humor, wether he was succeeding or not.

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And I think he wasn't, I think he could tell he was bombing and he blamed the audience rather than his material. So, when he heard those hecklers he flew into a rage and decided to try and be as insulting and hurtful as he could by telling 'those people' what he really though about them.

Stop this offtopic shit, and get to the important issues:

Seinfield was way better than Drew Carey. Drew Carey was formulaic bullshit.

I think the drew Carey show had a better opening song.

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Originally Posted by g0zen

He himself even said he wasn't joking, that he flew off the handle and lost control of himself, a la Mel Gibson on the sauce. I know none of us here are scholars of comedy like yourself, but I for one couldn't find any attempted humor in what he said, failed or not.

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No, he didn't. His horrible attempt at an apology may have been damning, but he did make it clear that he was attempting to do something that didn't work.

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I still say it wasn't a joke, and the audience's reaction was more due to the unexpectedness of a comic being so blatantly racist. And come on, you of all people should know that some people will laugh at anything a comic says with little to know comprehension of what was said because they have it in their heads that it's 'supposed' to be funny and they came there to laugh.

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No, I've seen many comics eat their balls on stage. A lot of times (especially at pot luck shows like the one Richards was performing at) people who go to the shows have no idea who's performing that night and have probably never seen him perform before. As I understand it as told by others who were there that night, that guy was being an asshole and yelling shit through the entire set, and I'm sure a lot of people got a laugh at it, because they were happy to see Richard's call the guy out on being a dick and ruining everyone's fun. This has been my experience at many shows.

Sometimes comics will lash out at hecklers, and sometimes it's the best part of the show. That Bill Burr rant is a perfect example of a guy just lashing out and attacking everything that he could to piss off the people who were booing him (in that case Philadelphians) and the crowd fucking loved him for it. Patrice Oneal has gotten laughs by attacking people in the audience and making them cry. People like mean shit when it's called for.

And when you attack someone like that, you try to wound them. You try to say the shit that will piss them off the most, and that's why Richards did what he did, NOT because he thinks black people are niggers, but because he wanted to piss that one black person off and he knew that would do it. The delivery was hammy and over-the-top as well and he was trying to be shocking/provacative/funny, but he just came off like a lunatic.

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The tipping point came when he started his pointing and screaming of "He's a nigger" and that's when people began filing out.

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If that was in New York or Dallas, no one would have left. Whether or not they agreed with it, they'd probably enjoy watching a comedian have a meltdown.

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Fuck you, shithead. You were being deliberately obtuse about it with an IronPlant-esque "What's the big deal, he was just saying they were black, and they are right?" statement and you got called out for it.

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Don't tell me what I meant. I said it was the lack of meaning and connotation. I should have said it's the connotation and lack of meaning. What I said was worded slightly ambiguously, but I clearly explained what I meant afterwards.

I do not condone the use of the word in other contexts, but in discussion, performance, etc, it's different than saying it sincerely. I understand what the word means and the power it has, and I'm not trying to negate that. If he said it off stage with a straight face, it'd be different. But sometimes comedy is mean or offensive and that's ok.

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I think he could tell he was bombing and he blamed the audience rather than his material.

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This much is probably true. But silence says more than yelling shit at the stage. Hecklers in comedy clubs are attention seeking assholes, they are never EVER funny, and they deserve to be berated.

TLDR

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Originally Posted by AFX

Poster 1: "The sun is yellow."

buttcheeks: "The moon is kind of yellow too"

Poster 1: "How can you say that the moon is just as yellow as the sun? Are you insane?"

buttcheeks: "I'm not trying to say that the moon is as yellow as the sun, just kind of yellow too"

Poster 1: "How can you say the moon is just as yellow as the sun? The moon isn't a sun"

buttcheeks: "Do you people even read anything I say anymore? I never even said it looks like a sun, just that is yellow too"

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fixed

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Stop this offtopic shit, and get to the important issues:

Seinfield was way better than Drew Carey. Drew Carey was formulaic bullshit.

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IAWTP.

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Originally Posted by cka

kramer is truly an Adonis of comedy

edit: http://captainoftheussinevitable.ytmnsfw.com

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:lol: .

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Originally Posted by cka

kramer is truly an Adonis of comedy

edit: http://captainoftheussinevitable.ytmnsfw.com

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I need the soundbyte to add this to my mp3 player it's fantastic.

EDIT: Got it and it's about to become my new ringtone. XD

Hahaha, that is so good.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Hahaha, that is so good.

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Seriously. That song is fucking well done.

Seinfeld is the king of sitcoms. The Drew Carrey show is merely a humble subject in its court.

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Originally Posted by Aurora

Seriously. That song is fucking well done.

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Wow. I concur.

He sounds like Mike Myers when he says "I'm not a racist, that's what's so insane about this."

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Originally Posted by Brisco Bold

He sounds like Mike Myers when he says "I'm not a racist, that's what's so insane about this."

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That was the most awkward line I've heard someone say on TV in a while.

Paul Mooney was on FOX News and called him on his bluff. If he's not racist, he needs to go do a show at the Apollo, adopt a black baby, do some charity in Africa, etc. They're all extreme examples, but he needs to go that far to prove it. Saying "I'm not racist" on TV doesn't fly when we've just heard you scream "nigger, nigger, nigger" like you're at a Klan rally.

Paul Mooney rules, but he's been as racist on stage as anyone else in the business.

Yeah but he already has several black children so it's ok.

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Originally Posted by rezo

Yeah but he already has several black children so it's ok.

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POTY

g0zen: So fucking what if it wasn't a joke? They provoked him, and they deserved what they got. Let's say Richards didn't use the "N-word." He still would have been attacked for racism, because it's the fucking fallback, and NO ONE wants to fucking touch it. All a Jew, Black, Asian, or anyone of a minortiy race has to do in any given situation is claim racism, and the fear factor increases exponentially, and they miraculously get their way.

Can I do that? Certainly not! I'm proud of my European descent, however, if I went to a "Ukrainian Rally," or a "Slavic Gathering," I'd automatically be labeled a racist for disallowing minorities into the group. But, they can have their Black channels, scholarships, societies, etc., and it's all just fine and dandy. Fuck that, yo.

This rant is even going to be labeled as racist, because NO ONE wants to address the truth of the fucking matter.

BAH!

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

This rant is even going to be labeled as racist, because NO ONE wants to address the truth of the fucking matter.

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I can't wait for WET in my cable lineup. I will finally have something that speaks to me.

stuff like scholarships and hiring quotas and shit like that are "fair" under the assumption that the actions of the past are hindering those who live now. That by helping a little now, you make up for shitty starting point their family got when they originally came here.

But those kinds of programs are racist, and will eventually need to be ended.

But who is to say when that will be? Has the country done enough to make up for past mistakes? How do you decide something like that?

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

I can't wait for WET in my cable lineup. I will finally have something that speaks to me.

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The second sentence makes a very subtle point. White people don't need their own stuff because technically, we are the majority. And thus, most things are made to our taste.

BUT, for there to be progress against racism, things like BET need to go away. Crap like that encourages a us vrs them mentality. This shouldn't be a country of whites, blacks, mexicans, chinese, Indians, etc, but a country of people.

Everyone should be able to watch tv and find something to enjoy, without needing s channel that is for their skin color.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

The second sentence makes a very subtle point. White people don't need their own stuff because technically, we are the majority. And thus, most things are made to our taste.

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Yeah--but the real show of the problem is that if a WET did exist, there'd be riots. Television for whites! Just imagine the outrage.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

Yeah--but the real show of the problem is that if a WET did exist, there'd be riots. Television for whites! Just imagine the outrage.

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Probably, but it would be stupid on their part. I mean, the people who made BET and watch it probably already feel that everything else is "white" tv.

I'd like to know why people look at the world that way. I know I don't compare and contrast "whiteness" when i watch anything. Be it BET or some stupid japanime. In fact, I don't think of "whiteness" or "americaness" when i watch or look at anything. All I really care about is if its awesome or has boobs in it, and if those boobs are awesome.

Television IS television for whites.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

Yeah--but the real show of the problem is that if a WET did exist, there'd be riots. Television for whites! Just imagine the outrage.

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Exactly!

And buttcheeks, we are a nation of people, but we are also a nation of whites, blacks, latinos, and asians. All of these cultures are vastly diverse, and saying that a Germanic-European descendent is similar to an African descendent is absurd. Culturally, we are incredibly different. Different things appeal to us, and different things motivate us. To ignore this fact is just fucking dumb.

And the majority of "X" is NOT already geared toward the white majority. What a dumb thing to say! I just told you there are no white rallies, etc. FUCK! The US Army will allow ANYONE of a racial category to attend meeting designed specifically for their culture EXCEPT whites. It's geared toward the minorities, because they make the most noise when they're excluded, and if it isn't geared straight toward the minorities, it's diversity, wherein everyone and everything is represented.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Television IS television for whites.

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No, it isn't. I want you to tell me what, exactly, is "for whites" about it. If it were, it'd be labeled racist.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

Exactly!

And buttcheeks, we are a nation of people, but we are also a nation of whites, blacks, latinos, and asians. All of these cultures are vastly diverse, and saying that a Germanic-European descendent is similar to an African descendent is absurd. Culturally, we are incredibly different. Different things appeal to us, and different things motivate us. To ignore this fact is just fucking dumb.

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like what?

How are the groups that diffirent in the US? Chinese people fly when I'm not looking? Black people come from some weird bizzaro world?

What exactly are you saying?

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

What exactly are you saying?

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I think he's saying that there are many varied demographics in the US and, as such, there's always going to be a need/demand for different television programming. Your grandmother probably doesn't watch The Colbert Report, you probably don't watch Sabado Gigante, and I sure as hell don't watch Oprah.

I hate that BET exists, but not because it targets the black subculture of America--that's a viable demographic. I just hate how blatantly the channel descriminates--as if black Americans only want to watch black comedians, and what the fuck is with award shows that only award blacks?

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

No, it isn't. I want you to tell me what, exactly, is "for whites" about it. If it were, it'd be labeled racist.

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Are you seriously saying that white culture is under represented in American TV? I'd give you music, but TV?

You should be able to have societies to celebrate a culture; Australia has Croatian clubs, Serbian clubs, etc etc. Although they cannot discriminate and bar people outside their culture from joining. However, I would like to mention that a lot of these clubs almost always end up in racial conflicts. There is a fine line between nationalism and racism, and pride almost always becomes hubris.

And white rallies? What would be the reason for any majority to hold a rally?

Questionable statements.

I'm saying I don't have any black friends. But, I'm not a racist. However, I think minorities are getting an easy ride these days. But, I was talking to this black guy at the park the other day who was drinking in the afternoon. I mean, there was a black family that lived on the street down from me. It's not like we invited them over for dinner, but we didn't chase them off.

This is the world we live in. Keep the black and white jokes coming. They're funny.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

I think he's saying that there are many varied demographics in the US and, as such, there's always going to be a need/demand for different television programming. Your grandmother probably doesn't watch The Colbert Report, you probably don't watch Sabado Gigante, and I sure as hell don't watch Oprah.

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yeah, but those are shows, and those shows are for different age groups and sexes. Science pretty much decided that the minds of adults and kids are different, and the minds of girls and boys are different. There is nothing wrong with trying to tailor shows to those differences.

But for skin color? Skin color doesn't really affect your likes and dislikes. Shit like BET just perpetuates stereotypes.

But making channels for different cultures? Why? Do you care about that shit when you watch tv? If or when you watch movies from India or china, that are subbed, would it bother you that they are culturally different than you? Or would you enjoy them for what they are, and see the universal human themes?

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

And white rallies? What would be the reason for any majority to hold a rally?

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drink punch and talk about how Lisa needs braces

I can't believe you guys are even humoring the "BET is racist to start with. Where's my white TV?" argument. That's the kind of logic 13-year-olds use as philosophy.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

Questionable statements.

I'm saying I don't have any black friends. But, I'm not a racist. However, I think minorities are getting an easy ride these days. But, I was talking to this black guy at the park the other day who was drinking in the afternoon. I mean, there was a black family that lived on the street down from me. It's not like we invited them over for dinner, but we didn't chase them off.

This is the world we live in. Keep the black and white jokes coming. They're funny.

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what?

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

Are you seriously saying that white culture is under represented in American TV?

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Yes.

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And white rallies? What would be the reason for any majority to hold a rally?

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To celebrate their comonality and culture. That's what a rally is, yo.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

I can't believe you guys are even humoring the "BET is racist to start with. Where's my white TV?" argument. That's the kind of logic 13-year-olds use as philosophy.

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For the record, I didn't say anything about BET, but TV programming as a whole.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

yeah, but those are shows, and those shows are for different age groups and sexes. Science pretty much decided that the minds of adults and kids are different, and the minds of girls and boys are different. There is nothing wrong with trying to tailor shows to those differences.

But for skin color? Skin color doesn't really affect your likes and dislikes. Shit like BET just perpetuates stereotypes.

But making channels for different cultures? Why? Do you care about that shit when you watch tv? If or when you watch movies from India or china, that are subbed, would it bother you that they are culturally different than you? Or would you enjoy them for what they are, and see the universal human themes?

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You're dumb.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

what?

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I'm too surreal for you. :td: :devil: :red: :noob: :noob: :bs: :chick: :chunobi: :chu:

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

I can't believe you guys are even humoring the "BET is racist to start with. Where's my white TV?" argument. That's the kind of logic 13-year-olds use as philosophy.

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It doesn't take a 14-year-old to see the double standard in something like BET. If there was a channel that specifically played shows with white people in them and ran special award shows that honored only white people, it wouldn't last long before creating a shitstorm. Not that I think it shouldn't cause a shitstorm--I don't want a WET.

Just try to ignore it.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

Just try to ignore it.

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I do. I took BET out of my TV's channel cycle 'cause it's a pretty infuriating display of unnecessary discrimination.

I'm not going to get in a huge debate on this, but here:

It's a channel that has shows that feature more black characters than ABC. Sometimes it's hard for kids to look up to black people when you only see them getting arrested on FOX. BET is pretty much unwatchable, but it's something... If you want to start some positive social change, start with the real media, cause BET is barely a network. Y'all need to focus on a bigger picture. I mean, is the spanish channel racist against Americans because they don't speak English on it?

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

I'm not going to get in a huge debate on this, but here:

It's a channel that has shows that feature more black characters than ABC. Sometimes it's hard for kids to look up to black people when you only see them getting arrested on FOX. BET is pretty much unwatchable, but it's something... If you want to start some positive social change, start with the real media, cause BET is barely a network. Y'all need to focus on a bigger picture. I mean, is the spanish channel racist against Americans because they don't speak English on it?

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"American" isn't a race. And just because something is descriminatory, doesn't mean it's "racist." You can discriminate across a wide variety of topics.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

Yes.

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You're entitled to your opinion.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

To celebrate their comonality and culture. That's what a rally is, yo.

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It's pretty fitting that you ended your sentence with a word of English origin that was taken in and widely adopted by black subculture, and you've probably been exposed to black subculture so much you've adopted it. Isn't multiculturalism great. Rallies are not a celebration, they're a show of force. If you believe the way you celebrate a culture is to congregrate large numbers of a race, I feel truly sorry for you.

A true celebration of culture is inclusive; have you ever been to something like Oktoberfest, Chinese New Year, Christmas Parades, Mardi Gras,etc etc. You celebrate a culture by showing it to others, not by circlejerking and talking about how isn't it great you're all white. That form of pride is the seed of racism.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

"American" isn't a race. And just because something is descriminatory, doesn't mean it's "racist." You can discriminate across a wide variety of topics.

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I'm aware of that. I was making an analogy, not a social comment.

I think you're just looking for something to complain about.

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Originally Posted by icarusfall

I'm not going to get in a huge debate on this, but here:

It's a channel that has shows that feature more black characters than ABC. Sometimes it's hard for kids to look up to black people when you only see them getting arrested on FOX. BET is pretty much unwatchable, but it's something... If you want to start some positive social change, start with the real media, cause BET is barely a network. Y'all need to focus on a bigger picture. I mean, is the spanish channel racist against Americans because they don't speak English on it?

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what the hell are you talking about? What about BET is there to look up to? What sort of leading humanity to a better tomorrow programming have they put on that channel that I've missed? Is there some sort of hidden message to jokes about girlfriends breaking your windshield with a brick that I'm not getting? The channle isn't something, it is the opasite of something.

Did you even read what I said?

This thread got incredibly stupid.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

Yes.

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What would you like to see more of? The main request from minorities tends to simply be "[comparatively] more minorities", I think.

Racism is funny. Except when a mutha fucka gets his ass shot. You fucking racists...

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

No, it isn't. I want you to tell me what, exactly, is "for whites" about it. If it were, it'd be labeled racist.

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Weren't the major networks straight out accused of racism just a few years ago. One example that rings in my head is the Friends accusation saying that no black people are on the show, something that's true. During the final season they tried to make up for it by having that girl from Talk Soup a special guest star. However, that only lasted for a few episodes.

Seinfeld, as funny as it is, catered to whites as well. They had their mix with different cultures from time to time but it was always in a comedic text. Never were there any main minority characters (save for George's superior in the Yankees) that had any significant role. We have the Pakistani restaurant owner who ends up being deported, the entire Puerto Rican fiasco, and the episode where George tries to have one black friend.

Major network television (NBC, CBS, FOX and ABC) are stacked against minorities.

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Originally Posted by AstroBlue

You're entitled to your opinion.

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So is everyone else.

Entitled to my opinion, that is. :-p

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It's pretty fitting that you ended your sentence with a word of English origin that was taken in and widely adopted by black subculture, and you've probably been exposed to black subculture so much you've adopted it. Isn't multiculturalism great.

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Or it was a tongue-in-cheek joke that usually ends up being widely misunderstood as a regular part of my speach.

Either way, this point is stupid.

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Rallies are not a celebration, they're a show of force.

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You're wrong.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

It doesn't take a 14-year-old to see the double standard in something like BET. If there was a channel that specifically played shows with white people in them and ran special award shows that honored only white people, it wouldn't last long before creating a shitstorm. Not that I think it shouldn't cause a shitstorm--I don't want a WET.

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There's already a TNN and CTN.

I will say that putting movies in a "Black Cinema" section in Suncoast seems counterproductive.

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Originally Posted by MarkRyan

I just hate how blatantly the channel descriminates--as if black Americans only want to watch black comedians

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I hate how BET aggressively avoids any black comedians that might actually have some original jokes instead of telling "her breaf so stank" jokes like a parody of Black America. You don't see the likes of Keith Robinson, Partice Oneal, Ardie Fuqua or Godfrey on BET, just people shucking and jiving their way through 80s Def Comedy Jam routines. That to me is really insulting. And they're not even people that are more famous than the ones I said, so it's not like the music where they're just going for mainstream.

GOD! black people are over-sensitive. We are all in Kramers debt from all the times he made us laugh. Black people are like the muslims of america or something. I'm so damn fed up with people feeling 'insulted'.

We have a lot of multicultural programming up here in Canada and it doesn't bother me. I don't get angry that there are chinese peeps taking up room for my white shows (Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond). I don't understand the Hindu music though. What the hell is that shit all about?

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Originally Posted by Andrew

I don't understand the Hindu music though. What the hell is that shit all about?

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Stop the hate racist.

I used to play it in the back of pizza hut cranked for the manager Roshan. All of the kids on the pizza line were pleading me to turn it off while I did my best hindu dance impression.

I still don't get it, but god damn it did I rock it hard.

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Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

Major network television (NBC, CBS, FOX and ABC) are stacked against minorities.

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It's not racism though. It's demographics. If they want to make the most money for their buck they need to cater to the largest audience (whitey).

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Originally Posted by dakidski

GOD! black people are over-sensitive. We are all in Kramers debt from all the times he made us laugh. Black people are like the muslims of america or something. I'm so damn fed up with people feeling 'insulted'.

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And the Muslims are like the Chinese. I like this game.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

g0zen: So fucking what if it wasn't a joke? They provoked him, and they deserved what they got.

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Wow, did you just arrive from Stormfront.org or something? No one deserves to be told '50 years ago you'd be hung and stabbed' for being black just because they heckled some washed up comic.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

Let's say Richards didn't use the "N-word." He still would have been attacked for racism, because it's the fucking fallback, and NO ONE wants to fucking touch it. All a Jew, Black, Asian, or anyone of a minortiy race has to do in any given situation is claim racism, and the fear factor increases exponentially, and they miraculously get their way.

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Ugh, ridiculous argument. They didn't 'invent' the fact that Richards was screaming 'nigger' repeatedly just to pretend being offended. He was aiming to offend and he succeeded, no one here denies that, I just say that he did it because of a deep seated anger toward minorities (he probably has the same warped Caucasian crybabyism you're spouting here) instead of just to be an 'edgy' comic.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

Can I do that? Certainly not! I'm proud of my European descent, however, if I went to a "Ukrainian Rally," or a "Slavic Gathering," I'd automatically be labeled a racist for disallowing minorities into the group. But, they can have their Black channels, scholarships, societies, etc., and it's all just fine and dandy. Fuck that, yo.

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What? Are you kidding? There are plenty of European-American heritage celebrations that aren't labeled racist by society; Italian Pride parades, St. Patrick's Day parades, Oktoberfest, etc. They allow anyone and everyone to celebrate with them, and none of them whine about it like you're doing here. Also, for your information, there are Ukrainian groups that cater specifically to the needs of those with that background. Same with just about every Slavic community with a presence here in the US. They offer scholarships, legal help, etc. Just like the NAACP. Don't expect them to help you though, because you're about as much Slavic as your are chimpanzee.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

This rant is even going to be labeled as racist, because NO ONE wants to address the truth of the fucking matter.

BAH!

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There's nothing racist particularly about your argument, just highly ignorant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjnm8...elated&search=

offered without comment. :D

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

Exactly!

And buttcheeks, we are a nation of people, but we are also a nation of whites, blacks, latinos, and asians. All of these cultures are vastly diverse, and saying that a Germanic-European descendent is similar to an African descendent is absurd. Culturally, we are incredibly different. Different things appeal to us, and different things motivate us. To ignore this fact is just fucking dumb.

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No, it's dumb to think that someones original cultural heritage is the single defining characteristic about their personality. How about the fact that we are all Americans, huh? America has a culture, a shared culture, and one of it's biggest selling points is that it DOESN'T focus on the things that divide us, be it race, religion, or previous nationality. That's why it's called the 'melting pot'.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

And the majority of "X" is NOT already geared toward the white majority. What a dumb thing to say! I just told you there are no white rallies, etc. FUCK! The US Army will allow ANYONE of a racial category to attend meeting designed specifically for their culture EXCEPT whites. It's geared toward the minorities, because they make the most noise when they're excluded, and if it isn't geared straight toward the minorities, it's diversity, wherein everyone and everything is represented.

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Wah, wah, wah, Stormfront.org white crybabyism. If you want to attend a 'white rally' go to a Klan or Aryan nation meeting, because they're the only ones who want to 'defend' the white 'race'. The rest of us think it's stupid to try and marginalize yourself into a tribe mentality in the 21st fucking century.

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Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

Weren't the major networks straight out accused of racism just a few years ago. One example that rings in my head is the Friends accusation saying that no black people are on the show, something that's true. During the final season they tried to make up for it by having that girl from Talk Soup a special guest star. However, that only lasted for a few episodes.

Seinfeld, as funny as it is, catered to whites as well. They had their mix with different cultures from time to time but it was always in a comedic text. Never were there any main minority characters (save for George's superior in the Yankees) that had any significant role. We have the Pakistani restaurant owner who ends up being deported, the entire Puerto Rican fiasco, and the episode where George tries to have one black friend.

Major network television (NBC, CBS, FOX and ABC) are stacked against minorities.

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See, I still don't get the concept of "white" tv. How can someone watch seinfeld and think "man that is so white. I am not white. this is not for me."

I don't watch "in living color" and think how black it is, or the Cosby show and think how upper middle class black that show is, or watch akira and think how fucked up japanese it is.

Who watches tv and thinks like that? I don't get the thought process. What is so diffirent about "white" shows that makes it were minorities can not enjoy them? Why would sienfeld need to be a black guy and cuss a little bit more for him to be enjoyable?

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

Why would sienfeld need to be a black guy and cuss a little bit more for him to be enjoyable?

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Another winning comment.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

See, I still don't get the concept of "white" tv. How can someone watch seinfeld and think "man that is so white. I am not white. this is not for me."

I don't watch "in living color" and think how black it is, or the Cosby show and think how upper middle class black that show is, or watch akira and think how fucked up japanese it is.

Who watches tv and thinks like that? I don't get the thought process. What is so diffirent about "white" shows that makes it were minorities can not enjoy them? Why would sienfeld need to be a black guy and cuss a little bit more for him to be enjoyable?

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buttcheeks fails to understand things.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

Shit

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It has more to do with being able to relate to the program. I love Seinfeld, but my life doesn't have anything Jewish in it nor do I watch operas, have quirky events happen to me every day (just here and there like it should be) or know anyone right now with money like Elaine, Jerry and Kramer have.

Hell, even Freddie Prince Jr.'s show, where he pretends to be Puerto Rican, is hard to relate to. George Lopez is somewhat relatable to Latinos, albiet loosely, because we have a strong family bond that usually has us living with or near our parents for life. I know many caucasians who will say, "what the hell? Can't you get your own life instead of living with your parents?" and that's because they can't relate to our culture. I'm not saying caucasians do not have strong family ties but I believe ours is stronger.

Now plant that in your butt.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

And the Muslims are like the Chinese. I like this game.

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Actually I regret that comment. Sometimes it amazes me what I will post on on message boards. Heh. Oh well, its only the internet.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

See, I still don't get the concept of "white" tv. How can someone watch seinfeld and think "man that is so white. I am not white. this is not for me."

I don't watch "in living color" and think how black it is, or the Cosby show and think how upper middle class black that show is, or watch akira and think how fucked up japanese it is.

Who watches tv and thinks like that? I don't get the thought process. What is so diffirent about "white" shows that makes it were minorities can not enjoy them? Why would sienfeld need to be a black guy and cuss a little bit more for him to be enjoyable?

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Everybody. The racial differences between everybody aren't something you can ignore. In fact, it's a step in the wrong direction to ignore them. There are shows distinctively "black" that I can enjoy (in living colour) and so on. I'm sure it's the same thing with a black guy and predominantly white TV. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this. My Dominican boss listens to Merenge music in the office and puts it on me sometimes. I don't like it, I don't dig that sound. Likewise, she doesn't enjoy Chains or a lot of the rock I listen to in the office. We even make fun of each other sometimes, but we get along well and race has never been a serious issue between us.

It's not a bad label, it's just cultural differences. Accept it and move on.

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Originally Posted by Brisco Bold

This thread got incredibly stupid.

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thread was incredibly stupid from the get-go

patrice oneal is an idiot.

From the looks of that video you can tell he was trying to joke around. He just didn't have any tact about it whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by D_N_G

patrice oneal is an idiot.

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Everybody has thought the word nigger in their head. The fact of the matter is that every white guy who gets all defensive over race is uncomfortable with it. I don't treat a black guy any different than a white guy. That includes being mean to them if they piss me off.

I think that's what he was trying to say. A true equality isn't exactly going to be the holding-hands bullshit most whitey's claim it will be.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Everybody has thought the word nigger in their head. The fact of the matter is that every white guy who gets all defensive over race is uncomfortable with it. .

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you in the same league as patrice oneal

I think he and I would get along marvelously. And it's not because he's black and I'm looking to up my black friend quota for the month to brag at the country club brunch this Sunday.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

Everybody has thought the word nigger in their head. The fact of the matter is that every white guy who gets all defensive over race is uncomfortable with it. I don't treat a black guy any different than a white guy. That includes being mean to them if they piss me off.

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I'm going to be dead honest, but, while I can't say a dumb racist thought has never entered my head, I have never thought of any black person as a nigger.

BUT, the reason for that is just that I've always had too many black friends and too many black people around me for that to make sense in my head. If you don't have that constant reminder, I think it's normal for dumb shit like that to run through your head. If you're smart you have the good sense to know that it's a dumb thought, but shit happens. Hannity's indignant "No white people are ever racist" bullshit is retarded.

And Patrice rules. He's an ignorant loudmouth, but he's not an idiot, and it cracks me up how well he's able to completely disarm people he's talking to. Hannity and Colmes had no idea how to handle that kind of honesty.

the only reason the majority of anyone would have thought the n word in their own heads nowadays is due to the fact that it is so blatantly thrown around as acceptable by the black community through miusic/comedy/tv etc

not for the reason patrice was alluding to. birds of a feather

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I'm going to be dead honest, but, while I can't say a dumb racist thought has never entered my head, I have never thought of any black person as a nigger.

BUT, the reason for that is just that I've always had too many black friends and too many black people around me for that to make sense in my head. If you don't have that constant reminder, I think it's normal for dumb shit like that to run through your head. If you're smart you have the good sense to know that it's a dumb though, but shit happens. Hannity's indignant "No white people are ever racist" bullshit is retarded.

And Patrice rules. He's an ignorant loudmouth, but he's not an idiot, and it cracks me up how well he's able to completely disarm people he's talking to. Hannity and Colmes had no idea how to handle that kind of honesty.

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I've never hatefully or spitefully thought of it, but I have and it's happened. It's silly and I personally think racism is hilarious because it's so stupid and silly. But I'm not going to lie about it. I'm not going to patronize someone because they're black. Patrice knows that Hannity and Oneal or whoever those white guys were have thought of it. The fact that they denied it to patronize him is, in my opinion, racist.

I have never consciously degraded a black person by using the word nigger just because they were black and I didn't like them because of it. I think there's a distinction there.

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Originally Posted by D_N_G

not for the reason patrice was alluding to. birds of a feather

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I think it's a more to do with the MTV generation and it being so common place in comedy more than anything. I have a couple mexican friends I've called beaners. They've called me gringo. If that makes me racist then I'm the worst racist in the world, because I sat down and ate with them and drank with them and laughed with them.

We're different and there's nothing wrong with it. In fact it makes shit in general more interesting.

Yeah, they were expecting him to play the political correctness game and they clearly don't know how Patrice works. The guy will make people that heckle him cry, and he's walked entire crowds with his offensive material, too. He just doesn't give a shit, doesn't make exuses, and doesn't apologize.

I've seen Patrice be wrong a lot, but I've never seen him lose a debate once, because he knows how to completely throw people through a loop like that.

just because you have thought or deny thinking the n word does not make you racist. a song comes on the radio and you sing the lyrics in your head and they contain the word for example

the word/thought doesnt make the feeling, its the intent behind it

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Hannity's indignant "No white people are ever racist" bullshit is retarded.

And Patrice rules. He's an ignorant loudmouth, but he's not an idiot, and it cracks me up how well he's able to completely disarm people he's talking to. Hannity and Colmes had no idea how to handle that kind of honesty.

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Hannity was pulling the normal fox bs and was retarded. but all cheerleaders are stupid and all tnl'ers are jaded

if patrice was only trying to disarm, he did a great job of that. aside from that fact his attitude itself (assuming every white person thinks the n word as a negative) to me is considered racism against white people. the door swings both ways and he was definitely showing it with his presentation. either that or he is a great troll

Suli on the other hand got the point and even tried to call out patrice for being short sighted.

i may be missing the the trolling part if that was the MO, but from someone viewing the clip without the background of the guest, he sure came off terribly wrong

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

Yeah, they were expecting him to play the political correctness game and they clearly don't know how Patrice works. The guy will make people that heckle him cry, and he's walked entire crowds with his offensive material, too. He just doesn't give a shit, doesn't make exuses, and doesn't apologize.

I've seen Patrice be wrong a lot, but I've never seen him lose a debate once, because he knows how to completely throw people through a loop like that.

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To me the reaction those anchors gave him is kind of like opening a door all the time for black people. It's being nice to a black guy and giving him special treatment because he's black. Oh you're black so I'm going to treat you different than any white or hispanic guy. That's racist. If you're holding a door open for someone you're doing it because you're a polite person. If I'm rude and don't want to hold open a door I'm going to do it to anybody. That's how I approach it and approach it unapologetically.

It's the same with a mexican, a european, a jew, or anyone. Patronizing and stepping on eggshells is not good, and any minority I've ever known has ever said they enjoyed it.

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Originally Posted by Frogacuda

I hate how BET aggressively avoids any black comedians that might actually have some original jokes instead of telling "her breaf so stank" jokes like a parody of Black America. You don't see the likes of Keith Robinson, Partice Oneal, Ardie Fuqua or Godfrey on BET, just people shucking and jiving their way through 80s Def Comedy Jam routines. That to me is really insulting. And they're not even people that are more famous than the ones I said, so it's not like the music where they're just going for mainstream.

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For non-BET comedians, I always loved George Wallace myself. Very balanced yet witty "angry old man" shtick. He's like if Bill Cosby was crankier and stayed funny.

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Originally Posted by Andrew

To me the reaction those anchors gave him is kind of like opening a door all the time for black people. It's being nice to a black guy and giving him special treatment because he's black. Oh you're black so I'm going to treat you different than any white or hispanic guy. That's racist. If you're holding a door open for someone you're doing it because you're a polite person. If I'm rude and don't want to hold open a door I'm going to do it to anybody. That's how I approach it and approach it unapologetically.

It's the same with a mexican, a european, a jew, or anyone. Patronizing and stepping on eggshells is not good, and any minority I've ever known has ever said they enjoyed it.

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people dont give this "speacial treatment" because they think someone is different. they do it because they are scared of being falsely accused due to the sensitivity of the subject and they dont know any other way to attack the situation. better to be safe than sorry in todays bs society of lawsuits and political correctness, but that doesnt make it racist

the way you do it is the way it should be

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Originally Posted by g0zen

I just say that he did it because of a deep seated anger toward minorities (he probably has the same warped Caucasian crybabyism you're spouting here) instead of just to be an 'edgy' comic.

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Well, my apologies, then. I may have misread you.

He's Jewish, by the way. No caucasian crybabyism here. And they still deserved what they got.

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Originally Posted by D_N_G

people dont give this "speacial treatment" because they think someone is different. they do it because they are scared of being falsely accused due to the sensitivity of the subject and they dont know any other way to attack the situation. better to be safe than sorry in todays bs society of lawsuits and political correctness

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Fucking right. Look at what g0zen did to me. Apparently because of my comments, I came straight from Stormfront.org.

No one is interested in the truth of the matter because of this type of treatment. And, unfortunately, the instant someone calls you a racist, your credibility goes straight out the fucking window, whether or not it's true.

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Originally Posted by D_N_G

people dont give this "speacial treatment" because they think someone is different. they do it because they are scared of being falsely accused due to the sensitivity of the subject and they dont know any other way to attack the situation. better to be safe than sorry in todays bs society of lawsuits and political correctness, but that doesnt make it racist

the way you do it is the way it should be

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I know there's a reason for it (sensitivity) but every black guy who I've had this conversation with in real life has told me they appreciate my candidness and that they get irritated by the falseness of people who step on eggshells around them. I don't expect my mom or dad to understand that because their generation bred the entire progressive thinking attitude and don't seem to quite "get" it, but try (and that's something).

But for a progressive guy in his 20's there shouldn't be a huge problem.

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Originally Posted by Captain Vegetable

No one is interested in the truth of the matter because of this type of treatment. And, unfortunately, the instant someone calls you a racist, your credibility goes straight out the fucking window, whether or not it's true.

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But the situation here is that you're practically pardoning the K-Man for saying that shit. Those guys deserved to get lambasted because they were shitty ass hecklers. Not because they were black shitty ass hecklers and that's the difference. The upside down with a fork up your ass comment was way out of left field, even for an insult comic.

Quite frankly I don't personally think he was trying to be racist for racism's sake. I saw a guy trying a schtick on the stage that was grossly misinterpretted. He was even doing a physical routine with it. He just didn't do it well and payed for it in a society that's still struggling with the idea of true equality (but are trying, which is... something).

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Originally Posted by Andrew

It's the same with a mexican,a european, a jew, or anyone. Patronizing and stepping on eggshells is not good, and any minority I've ever known has ever said they enjoyed it.

I know there's a reason for it (sensitivity) but every black guy who I've had this conversation with in real life has told me they appreciate my candidness and that they get irritated by the falseness of people who step on eggshells around them

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having organizations that are aimed solely for the embetterment of specific minorities only breeds eggshells and separation. aiming the focus at society and people as a whole would help prevent this. have your cake and eat it too?

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Originally Posted by D_N_G

having organizations that are aimed solely for the embetterment of specific minorities only breeds eggshells and separation. aiming the focus at society and people as a whole would help prevent this. have your cake and eat it too?

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I think a black guy can better help a black guy because by nature birds of a feather stick together. When that mentallity means that a white guy can't get help when he needs it from a black doctor or vice versa is the issue. We're all the same on the inside anyway, so it really shouldn't be that big an issue.

But because society separates us that's the way it might have to be.

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Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

It has more to do with being able to relate to the program. I love Seinfeld, but my life doesn't have anything Jewish in it nor do I watch operas, have quirky events happen to me every day (just here and there like it should be) or know anyone right now with money like Elaine, Jerry and Kramer have.

Hell, even Freddie Prince Jr.'s show, where he pretends to be Puerto Rican, is hard to relate to. George Lopez is somewhat relatable to Latinos, albiet loosely, because we have a strong family bond that usually has us living with or near our parents for life. I know many caucasians who will say, "what the hell? Can't you get your own life instead of living with your parents?" and that's because they can't relate to our culture. I'm not saying caucasians do not have strong family ties but I believe ours is stronger.

Now plant that in your butt.

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so? who cares. I live in Mississippi, I can relate to Sienfield about as well as you do. I'm not jewish, i live a boring life, and I have no fucking idea how far I'd have to drive to see a real opera. But I watch Seinfeld anyway. Why? Because it is funny. I don't need to be able to relate to everything I watch.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

so? who cares. I live in Mississippi, I can relate to Sienfield about as well as you do. I'm not jewish, i live a boring life, and I have no fucking idea how far I'd have to drive to see a real opera. But I watch Seinfeld anyway. Why? Because it is funny. I don't need to be able to relate to everything I watch.

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buttcheeks - Voice of the Black Community.

you're so lame

Without getting too deep into the subject, the prevalence of white targeted and representative shows in primetime creates a perceived white world, with the occasional minority represented in bit parts. This creates pretty severe hegemony in the most popular medium in the country.

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Originally Posted by buttcheeks

you're so lame

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I believe the word you're looking for is "whack," Champion of the Black Community.

Well all think like you, Ironplant. Will that end this argument?

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Originally Posted by D_N_G

if patrice was only trying to disarm, he did a great job of that. aside from that fact his attitude itself (assuming every white person thinks the n word as a negative) to me is considered racism against white people. the door swings both ways and he was definitely showing it with his presentation

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Dude, I don't think it could have been any more obvious that that was exactly what he was trying to say. He was saying that he gets to go up on stage and be abusive and offend people and so can Kramer, even if what he says is wrong, and what Kramer said didn't hurt him as black man as much as the reaction to it hurt him as a comedian.

It wasn't trolling, he was just honestly expressing an unpopular opinion (and it is just an opinion) in front of an unreceptive audience, and the people around him did not know how to deal with that.

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Suli on the other hand got the point and even tried to call out patrice for being short sighted.

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Suli was a toe the line, say what he was supposed to say ass, and annoyed the hell out of me. He contributed nothing.

EDIT: Attempt at humor failed.

Already posted in this very thread.

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Originally Posted by Razor Ramon

Well all think like you, Ironplant. Will that end this argument?

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no, I want to discuss this. I want to know why you feel the way you do. It doesn't bother me that I may be wrong, but I'd like to know why you feel that I am.

I don't post here to be right or win. I'm interested in your opinions.